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Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




david_a posted:

I like cryptozoology because it’s sorta a real science. Obviously stuff like the Jersey Devil is completely supernatural and silly (but fun!). However, some of the more mundane creatures might have some basis in undiscovered animals. Stuff like the shunka warakin is *sigh* 99% certain to just be folklore + a lovely taxidermy job, but how cool would it be if it wasn’t???

DJ Fuckboy Supreme posted:

As a kid I was always fascinated by stories of the Jersey Devil and my personal favorite, the Mothman.
Stuff like the Jersey Devil and Mothman are more interesting to me precisely because they're supernatural legends and not pseudoscience. Once you set aside the mere fact that they don't exist, there are all these threads to pick at. Like in the case of the Devil, it comes out of religious struggles, political struggles, stereotypes of marginalized populations, and rivalries between fancy-lad almanac publishers.

Bigfoot is like "What if a gorilla was real? No, a different gorilla. That lives in the forest. No, an American forest."

That said, what about similar legends that don't really tie in to the Sasquatch/yeti mythos, like the skunk ape or the Honey Island monster?

Halloween Jack has a new favorite as of 16:54 on Mar 9, 2021

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEGmD3iuJUo

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


stereobreadsticks posted:

young earth creationists ..... somehow think that surviving dinosaurs would be evidence that evolution or an old earth or both are untrue (as opposed to just evidence that an animal we previously thought went extinct hadn't)

Yeah I remember there was a Kickstarter to raise funds for an expedition to the Congo basin about a decade ago to hunt for Mokele-mbembe, I vaguely recall hearing that the guys behind it were young earth creationists just out of college. The two project leads had a falling out and the guy who controlled all the social media accounts quit, and it later turned out that the other guy basically went to Africa and had a holiday because he didn't bother arranging research permits.
http://www.davidmeyercreations.com/cryptozoology/the-dinosaur-expedition-what-went-wrong/


DrBouvenstein posted:

Giant squids I think were more or less confirmed in the 19th century, so not quite qualifying for your first edit, but colossal were more recent I believe.

Giant squid have been known to exist since ancient times (Aristotle and Pliny the Elder both give detailed accounts of them) but they weren't properly described by science until the 1850s. There's been nearly 700 specimens discovered so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_squid#Timeline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_giant_squid_specimens_and_sightings

We've had evidence of colossal squid since at least 1924, mostly from random body parts found in sperm whale stomachs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colossal_squid_specimens_and_sightings

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Halloween Jack posted:

That said, what about similar legends that don't really tie in to the Sasquatch/yeti mythos, like the skunk ape or the Honey Island monster?

Oh boy, there's at least one and sometimes several distinct "giant hairy bipedal monster" legend in almost every US state. This page covers a lot of them: https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Hairy_Humanoids

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


Captain Jesus posted:

I'm having my own little Mandela effect moment, because although I've seen the Patterson-Gimlin film numerous time and read the wikipedia article before, I never noticed that the Bigfoot was so prominently female.

As with Bigfoot handprints, breasts never caught on as a part of the mythos. It's probably because they're a too clear a remnant of the "hairy Indian" stories, but also because they'd add an extra layer of complication to any fake. Also, even if they were added, the vast majority of "blobsquatch" videos are too poo poo for anyone to discern even features of that size.

Going back to William Roe's affadavit, the question that immediately popped up for me was this: why the hell is a guy even testifying about this? So, apparently, he was asked to go under oath and obtain a signed government document by Sasquatch/proto-Bigfoot researcher John Green. It's unclear exactly how sincere Green was, but it definitely comes across as a kind of stunt. (The affadavit would be reprinted in several of Green's books.)

In any case, it was ultimately good publicity for Bigfoot. (Re)printing the statement in TRUE magazine, 1960, Ivan T. Sanderson admits that a person can swear whatever they want, but claims that Canadian affadavits are extra authentic:

"While sworn statements may not cut too much ice in this country, they mean a great deal in Canada and other parts of the British Empire. Canadians have an intense respect for the Law, and their laws are quite a lot more stringent than ours. ... A Canadian thinks more than twice before he goes before a justice of the peace and makes a sworn statement."

As we know, "hairy Indian" stories had been a thing for a while, but there was a minor wave of sightings in Western Canada after Eric Shipman's photos of alleged 'Yeti footprints' generated international fervor in the early 1950s. The movie The Snow Creature was released 1954, Godzilla creator Ishiro Honda made the film Beast-Man Snowman (aka Half Human) in 1955, and Hammer released The Abominable Snowman in 1957. That's the context from which the Roe affadavit emerged, before Bigfoot was finally created in 1958.

Even in 1960, Sanderson still refers to Bigfoot and Sasquatch as distinct phenomena: "The matter of Bigfoot in California is, at the moment of writing, a very live issue, and several people are putting a good deal of money into an extensive investigation. But the Sasquatch is no less important."

SuperMechagodzilla has a new favorite as of 17:56 on Mar 9, 2021

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Yeah I remember there was a Kickstarter to raise funds for an expedition to the Congo basin about a decade ago to hunt for Mokele-mbembe, I vaguely recall hearing that the guys behind it were young earth creationists just out of college. The two project leads had a falling out and the guy who controlled all the social media accounts quit, and it later turned out that the other guy basically went to Africa and had a holiday because he didn't bother arranging research permits.
http://www.davidmeyercreations.com/cryptozoology/the-dinosaur-expedition-what-went-wrong/


My favorite part of this is they've become part of the local economy. The people living there know that when the White Men come looking for the dinosaur tell them they saw it at some isolated lake and take their money. The guys searching for Mokele-mbembe always go "these people are so isolated they would't know what a dinosaur was!" which is pretty racist, but what do you expect from Christians?

Oh and yea Cryptozoology has been cooped for a ton of lovely things, but i'm talking about the current crop. Though I was unware about their avoidance of bigfoot.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Iceland doesn't have that many cryptids outside of the Lagarfljót Worm*, which as the name suggests is a worm and/or serpent living in the Lagarfljót river in eastern Iceland. I´m not sure if it quite counts since it's explicitly supernatural in orgin but it's also just a really big worm in a river that people sometimes spot.

The first mention of a creature in the river is from a 15th century annal where the entry for the year 1345 mentions a sighting of humps rising from the river but the phenomenon is never explicitly described as a worm just a "wonder". In a map of Iceland from 1585 there is also a inscription by the Lagarfljót which reads "In this lake a massive snake resides". There are numerous other accounts of it throughout the ages but the supposed origin of the creature doesn't appear in writing until the late 19th century when folklorist Jón Árnason recorded it. In short the story goes that in "ancient times" (in this context probably in the first centuries of settlement in Iceland circa 874-1264) a girl was given a golden ring by her mother and instructed to place a "lyngormur"(heather-worm. Probably a slug.) on it she did so and placed both the ring and the worm in a jewelry chest. However not only did the ring expand but the worm grew with it and soon enough the worm was so huge that the chest was close to bursting. In a panic she threw the chest into the river where the worm continued to grow. As it grew larger and larger it started to become a problem as it would regularly surface and spew poison over the banks of the river killing both livestock and people. Eventually two Finns (probably Sami as they were thought to be natural magic users and monsters slayers) were called in to slay the beast but only managed to tie it to the bottom of the river saying that there was another much larger worm beneath it that they didn't want to risk disturbing. This neutralized the danger of the worm but it is said that sometimes it can loosen itself enough to stick one of its humps out of the river and that a sighting of the hump is a omen of coming hardship such as natural disasters, famine, and war.


Here's a video someone recorded in 2012 Supposedly showing the worm.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGKTzNuuyrk

I did my own interpretation of it the last summer:

I made a clay figure of the humps and head and then photoshopping it into a picture I took of river on a roadtrip.





*There's a whole bunch of sea monsters (mostly animal themed whales like the mousewhale, catwhale, bullwhale, horsewhale, and also the swordwhale which is a whale with a huge swordlike bone sticking out of its back that it uses to cut ship in two). I have a book somewhere with some really nice illustrations that covers basically all types of cryptids and strange creatures ever recorded in Iceland, I need to dig it up for this thread.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



With most of those river monster videos you've really got to try and keep an eye on whether it's actually moving or if it's just a fixed object flapping in the current. The illusion of movement can be really deceptive if the current against a stationary object is strong enough to create a wake, especially if the camera is moving. That video looks a lot like this Yangtze footage which just turned out to be a net stuck in the water:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypCg9WAuqpA

Also, I know we have some 90s Coast to Coast AM fans in here—if anyone wants a link to the archives going back to 1992 hit me up in a PM.

Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace

FreudianSlippers posted:

I have a book somewhere with some really nice illustrations that covers basically all types of cryptids and strange creatures ever recorded in Iceland, I need to dig it up for this thread.

Please do, that sounds very cool! Props also to SMG for the research on The Legend of Bigfoot. So much of cryptozoology is received wisdom and assumed facts - to wit, this map of the PG Film site from Peter Byrne's The Search for Bigfoot from Pocket Books, 1976:



Later individuals (including one Steven Streufert of Willow Creek, CA, a very nice dude if you ever meet him) eventually pinpointed the exact site of filming and found that Byrne's old map was pretty much an inaccurate mess!

But hey, Monster Maps are fun:


From The Abominable Snowmen by Brad Steiger (as Eric Norman). Award Books, 1969.


From Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come to Life by Ivan T. Sanderson. Pyramid Books, 1968 (original pub. 1961).


From On the Track of Bigfoot by Marian T. Place. Pocket Books, 1979 (original pub. 1974)


Also from The Search for Bigfoot by Peter Byrne.


From Bigfoot: America's Abominable Snowman by Elwood D. Baumann, reprinted as stated from a John Green work. Dell Publishing, 1975.

Links go to my blog for vintage paranormal paperbacks, hope that's okay.

EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad


Oregon, huh?

Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace


They might as well have marked Washington too anyways so I don't know what happened there.

Jetto Jagga has a new favorite as of 01:06 on Mar 10, 2021

Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace

Also, the Bermuda Triangle's gotta fit in here somewhere, right? Here's a beautiful full color version out of Adi-Kent Thomas Jeffrey's The Bermuda Triangle, from Warner Books, 1975.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



On the subject of the Bermuda Triangle, one thing that blew my mind was learning that it was originally one of TEN triangles encircling the globe, and one of twelve "vile vortecies" inspired by tales of the Devil's Sea—which may or may not have been made up as a fake precedent.

Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace

feedmyleg posted:

On the subject of the Bermuda Triangle, one thing that blew my mind was learning that it was originally one of TEN triangles encircling the globe, and one of twelve "vile vortecies" inspired by tales of the Devil's Sea—which may or may not have been made up as a fake precedent.

That's thanks to our old friend Ivan T. Sanderson, and yeah the 12 vile vortices seem pretty arbitrary. There's some guff about airplanes disappearing in Afghanistan in WWII and of course the Devil's Sea off of Japan, but Sanderson never even tried to justify the other locations afaik.



Though iirc some wags have suggested that R'lyeh is the location in the South Pacific west of Chile.

Jetto Jagga has a new favorite as of 04:04 on Mar 10, 2021

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Jetto Jagga posted:

Another wild and woolly volume, Ivan T. Sanderson's Abominable Snowman: Legend Come to Life, yielded these treasures to me folded inside a used copy:





SuperMechagodzilla posted:

In any case, it was ultimately good publicity for Bigfoot. (Re)printing the statement in TRUE magazine, 1960, Ivan T. Sanderson admits that a person can swear whatever they want, but claims that Canadian affadavits are extra authentic:

"While sworn statements may not cut too much ice in this country, they mean a great deal in Canada and other parts of the British Empire. Canadians have an intense respect for the Law, and their laws are quite a lot more stringent than ours. ... A Canadian thinks more than twice before he goes before a justice of the peace and makes a sworn statement."

Jetto Jagga posted:


From Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come to Life by Ivan T. Sanderson. Pyramid Books, 1968 (original pub. 1961).

Jetto Jagga posted:

That's thanks to our old friend Ivan T. Sanderson, and yeah the 12 vile vortices seem pretty arbitrary. There's some guff about airplanes disappearing in Afghanistan in WWII and of course the Devil's Sea off of Japan, but Sanderson never even tried to justify the other locations afaik.



Ivan T. Sanderson has his fingerprints all over this stuff, his name just keeps popping up over and over and over. The word 'cryptozoology' was first seen in print in Belgian zoologist Bernard Heuvelmans' 1955 book Sur la Piste des Bêtes Ignorées but he attributes Sanderson with coining the term in the 1940s. Sanderson got a real reputation as an intrepid explorer and monster investigator and he occasionally got called him in when there was a mystery to be solved, such as the 1948 Clearwater Beach Giant Penguin case. Giant three toed footprints were found along the beach short and a nearby river bank and mystified the town, and when Sanderson was called in to figure it out he announced it was definitely a gigantic penguin and there was no way the footprints could have been faked due their depth and stride. Here's a photo of Sanderson holding a plaster cast of one of the footprints:


Soon after there were several reported sightings of the giant penguin, which described it as being 15' tall and having alligator feet.

Decades later, long after Sanderson had died, a local newspaper reporter revealed that the tracks had been created by two local pranksters who just attached heavy iron monster feet onto their shoes


It turns out that they'd been trying to create a dinosaur hoax but Sanderson derailed it when he told everyone it was a giant penguin.

Marcade
Jun 11, 2006

Who are you to doubt El Vago?



Jetto Jagga posted:

That's thanks to our old friend Ivan T. Sanderson, and yeah the 12 vile vortices seem pretty arbitrary. There's some guff about airplanes disappearing in Afghanistan in WWII and of course the Devil's Sea off of Japan, but Sanderson never even tried to justify the other locations afaik.



Though iirc some wags have suggested that R'lyeh is the location in the South Pacific west of Chile.

I seriously doubt the note in that image that disappearances at the poles are mysterious. They obviously entered Hollow Earth

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


Snowglobe of Doom posted:

It turns out that they'd been trying to create a dinosaur hoax but Sanderson derailed it when he told everyone it was a giant penguin.

Note that several species of giant penguins actually did exist, millions of years ago - but the idea of them as a still-living creepy cryptid is probably taken from H.P. Lovecraft’s At The Mountains Of Madness. It’s another example of pulp horror’s influence on this stuff.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






FreudianSlippers posted:

Iceland doesn't have that many cryptids outside of the Lagarfljót Worm*, which as the name suggests is a worm and/or serpent living in the Lagarfljót river in eastern Iceland. I´m not sure if it quite counts since it's explicitly supernatural in orgin but it's also just a really big worm in a river that people sometimes spot.
Similarly the only real cryptid in Norway is the Seljord Worm, the first recorded sighting was in 1750. Not many thinks it's real but it's a fun idea and it has became sort of a mascot for Seljord county.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Note that several species of giant penguins actually did exist, millions of years ago - but the idea of them as a still-living creepy cryptid is probably taken from H.P. Lovecraft’s At The Mountains Of Madness. It’s another example of pulp horror’s influence on this stuff.
People was just in general freaked out about penguins. For a long time they were considered primitive birds, more reptile than bird.

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Yay




Alhazred posted:

People was just in general freaked out about penguins. For a long time they were considered primitive birds, more reptile than bird.

I mean...

I kind of get it.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Note that several species of giant penguins actually did exist, millions of years ago - but the idea of them as a still-living creepy cryptid is probably taken from H.P. Lovecraft’s At The Mountains Of Madness. It’s another example of pulp horror’s influence on this stuff.

Sanderson was also a MASSIVE fan of Charles Fort (one of the very first things he did when he arrived in the US was to attend a public lecture which just happened to be Fort trolling the NYC hoi polloi with a one hour lecture proving that the earth was flat, and then going "LOL j/k" at the end), I wonder if Fort ever mentioned giant penguins in any of his books.

Of course Fort's collected forteana were mostly taken from yellow journalism tall tales which were no doubt influenced by/ripping off pulp horror magazines (and vice versa), it was all a big dumb vicious circle feeding back into itself over and over.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


BrigadierSensible posted:

Do Drop-Bears count as a cryptid?

I've been mulling this over for a while and it's actually an interesting ontological question that sits at the heart of the entire field of cryptozoology. The line of demarcation between "obviously bullshit folklore" and "mystery creature which might actually be real" is obviously super fuzzy because there's always someone who buys into the story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suciKH-yFs

There's been a whole bunch of people who got obsessed in the search for bigfoot and later decided it was just a myth. Legendary mountaineer Reinhold Messner actually wrote an entire book about his decade-long quest for the yeti after he had an encounter back in 1986 which ends with him concluding it was just bears all along.

I guess Santa's flying reindeer also count as cryptids

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Brand new cryptids, fresh outta the oven and piping hot! Here's some weird ape creatures from the tiny 56 sq mi Brazilian island of Itaparica, photographed just a few days ago



Article: https://vozdabahia.com.br/vera-cruz-boato-de-criatura-estranha-assusta-moradores-de-itaparica/
Google translate version of article: https://translate.google.com/transl...s-de-itaparica/


Looks like a super obvious fake to me:
Whoever photoshopped the two images copy/pasted the same monkey/gibbon into both images


The 'baby' also seems to be a shrunk down copy/paste as well, but it's such an indistinct blobsquatch it's hard to tell which larger one it's copied from

Snowglobe of Doom has a new favorite as of 14:19 on Mar 11, 2021

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Reminds me a bit of the creatures from Attack the Block with their dark lack of detail and selective glowy bits.

I've always wanted to pull a cryptid hoax. The big thing stopping me from giving it a shot is the thought of somebody in 50 years using it as evidence in an anti-science argument.

Phy
Jun 27, 2008





Fun Shoe

feedmyleg posted:

I've always wanted to pull a cryptid hoax. The big thing stopping me from giving it a shot is the thought of somebody in 50 years using it as evidence in an anti-science argument.

You're an 04, did you post in the Slenderman thread at all? I did a couple times, even one of those dumb "omg i couldn't sleep last night" style posts, cause sometimes I have a stupid overactive imagination and my brain deserves a good kicking. Anyway, at the start he was characterized as more of a forest-dwelling supernatural-style cryptid than whatever the youtube mythologies and movies and sick teenagers turned him into.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



I saw the Slenderman thread at the time but thought it was impossibly lame—the same as when creepypasta started its rise. It all just read as an experiment in collective fiction/storytelling to me, which didn't tap into what I thought was interesting about the subject. In retrospect I can see both of them as births of modern myth, but at the time neither had yet to have any cultural impact so they felt akin to reading fanfiction—separate from and lesser than the "real thing." But despite the fact that the big crop circle hoaxers of the 80s had already been exposed by the time I became aware of them, I thought that whole subjevt was really interesting because it was presented as fact—and despite the reveal so many people still believed in them.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Brand new cryptids, fresh outta the oven and piping hot! Here's some weird ape creatures from the tiny 56 sq mi Brazilian island of Itaparica, photographed just a few days ago



Article: https://vozdabahia.com.br/vera-cruz-boato-de-criatura-estranha-assusta-moradores-de-itaparica/
Google translate version of article: https://translate.google.com/transl...s-de-itaparica/


Looks like a super obvious fake to me:
Whoever photoshopped the two images copy/pasted the same monkey/gibbon into both images


The 'baby' also seems to be a shrunk down copy/paste as well, but it's such an indistinct blobsquatch it's hard to tell which larger one it's copied from


apes, in brazil?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife_of_Brazil posted:

Brazil has the highest diversity of primates (78species) and freshwater fish (over 3000 species) of any country in the world.

impossible!

this must be some special subgenre of prank where the authors attempt to convince you that more or less accurate identification of normal animal in its normal environment is a evidence of a cryptid

Hodgepodge has a new favorite as of 19:36 on Mar 11, 2021

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Hodgepodge posted:

apes, in brazil?


impossible!

South America only has new world monkeys (the largest of which is the Guatemalan black howler which maxes out at 25lb) and doesn't have any apes. The apes in the photos looks like gibbons, which are from SE Asia.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

choose your own horror isekai sci-fi Souls-like urban fantasy gamer simulator adventure

or don't?


I think giant penguins could be kind of spooky if they were gianter, like in some of Monokubo's art



Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace

feedmyleg posted:

I've always wanted to pull a cryptid hoax. The big thing stopping me from giving it a shot is the thought of somebody in 50 years using it as evidence in an anti-science argument.

When I worked in parks and rec we'd talk all the time about leaving bigfoot tracks in one of the (very suburban) parks - there was a "bigfoot guy" on one of the other crews who would have lost his poo poo. All talk though, c'est la vie ...

Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace

Anyone remember the site "Orgone Research?" It's offline now but I used to love it, just some guy who would do experiments with Bigfoot stuff, making his own stompers etc. He figured out that 1) the "dermal ridges" that everyone was crazy over for a while were a byproduct of the plaster casting process and 2) that the "mid-tarsal break" which doesn't even make sense to begin with just so happens to be the exact result you get when you use a heavy stiff stomper to make a track.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


Snowglobe of Doom posted:

South America only has new world monkeys (the largest of which is the Guatemalan black howler which maxes out at 25lb) and doesn't have any apes. The apes in the photos looks like gibbons, which are from SE Asia.

so it seems, but plenty reach the height of 3 or so feet, which doesnt seem out of line with the photos.

take, say, a spider monkey. those photos could easily be one of these cute fellas with some spooky mystery added by not bothering to try for a good clear shot:



except the lack of tail I suppose; not sure if any sa species lack tails

Hodgepodge has a new favorite as of 00:30 on Mar 12, 2021

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


huh, it turns out that tails are a common feature of all new world monkies, and that hoaxes passing off manipulated photos of spider monkeys as south american apes is a cryptozoological tradition:

https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Dey_Loy%27s_Ape

sephiRoth IRA
Jun 13, 2007

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."

-Carl Sagan


So I used to work for an unnamed laboratory that was funded primarily by state and/or federal funding. Details have been changed a bit. I use this preface simply to highlight how egregious the following story is given how serious the use requirements are for this kind of funding.

Initial rumblings were coming from the infectious diseases section that some malfeasance was happening in relation to the relatively new director, Anna. She was taking a ton of trips and leaving the running of the lab to the manager. This is normal, but we're talking multi-week trips.

Furthermore, Anna had been using a ton of extremely pricey sequencing reagents for a "pet project" according to the manager (like thousands of dollars per run, and these are supposed to be for testing patient viral specimens for diagnostic confirmation!)

We grilled the manager on what she meant by "pet project" and she couldn't provide any more detail. She told us that when she asked the director for detail, she was told that Anna was doing some assay development.

We talk to Anna, and she provides us with some test development validation paperwork. It all looks okay, it's for a disease state we didn't have an assay for, so we tell her to cut the extended travel and start doing her job.

Another six months go by and we're starting to wonder where the final validation package is. The manager tells us that Anna has been out sick a fair bit and still maxing out her leave.

We go back to Anna to ask for the validation and give her more poo poo about the leave and she breaks down in tears. The whole sordid story comes out. She had been working for months with a group in Hungary that believed they had found loving bigfoot.

She was flying back and forth to goddamn Romania and traipsing into the woods with these lunatics to collect fur samples from trees. Anna would then package it all up, bring it back to the lab in the US, and do extensive sequencing comparisons. She had burned literally 80k+ of state dollars on Bigfoot studies! We were hosed. Like everybody even tangentially involved.

We went to the state, smoothed things over as best we could. Anna was disgraced, fired quietly, and the manager took over as Director. Everything was kept quiet because the state couldn't afford the hit to their reputation thanks to recent gently caress-ups with their community outreach to historically disadvantaged communities. Basically money that was earmarked for improving these programs was moved to other unrelated projects at the request of the (completely white) leadership team and someone in the media got wind. I didn't get the full story but basically another funding snafu would sink them.

Keep in mind Anna was a great hire. She brought a ton of sequencing knowledge and basically launched our sequencing division single-handedly. I asked her before she left whether she'd found any evidence of bigfoot's existence and she told me

"No. I hosed my whole life to prove there are bears in Romania."

Regarde Aduck
Oct 18, 2012

haha


Grimey Drawer

feedmyleg posted:

I saw the Slenderman thread at the time but thought it was impossibly lame—the same as when creepypasta started its rise. It all just read as an experiment in collective fiction/storytelling to me, which didn't tap into what I thought was interesting about the subject. In retrospect I can see both of them as births of modern myth, but at the time neither had yet to have any cultural impact so they felt akin to reading fanfiction—separate from and lesser than the "real thing." But despite the fact that the big crop circle hoaxers of the 80s had already been exposed by the time I became aware of them, I thought that whole subjevt was really interesting because it was presented as fact—and despite the reveal so many people still believed in them.

They were collective fiction/storytelling. That was exactly what it was supposed to be.

Phy
Jun 27, 2008





Fun Shoe

Right. From the op of the thread (not the slenderman poster, just the person who started the "create paranormal images" thread)

quote:

Creating paranormal images has been a hobby of mine for quite some time. Occasionally, I stumble upon odd web sites showcasing strange photos, and I always wondered if it were possible to get one of my own chops in a book, documentary, or web site just by casually leaking it out into the web -- whether they'd be supplements to bogus stories or not.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008


Hodgepodge posted:

huh, it turns out that tails are a common feature of all new world monkies, and that hoaxes passing off manipulated photos of spider monkeys as south american apes is a cryptozoological tradition:

https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Dey_Loy%27s_Ape

This is the one I mentioned before that was used to prop up the racist theory of hologenesis, which argued that the different races of humanity were actually separate species who had evolved from different non-human primate ancestors. There were enough living apes and fossilized hominids in Africa, Europe, and Asia that the proponents of this theory could point to them as explanations for the physical differences between Asians, Africans, and Europeans but the fact that there aren't any apes in the fossil records of the Americas or Australia presented a problem to them, so there was a bit of a market for "proof" of the existence of potential human ancestors in those continents in order to prop up the shaky foundations of the theory. De Loy himself was probably just looking for money and fame but it turns out he was closely associated with a French anthropologist (and later Nazi collaborator, shocking I know) named George Montandon who was committed to proving the theory.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


sephiRoth IRA posted:

Keep in mind Anna was a great hire. She brought a ton of sequencing knowledge and basically launched our sequencing division single-handedly. I asked her before she left whether she'd found any evidence of bigfoot's existence and she told me

"No. I hosed my whole life to prove there are bears in Romania."

Haaaaaaaaaaa that's awesome.


There's been a whole bunch of people who went all-in on alleged "bigfoot DNA" and announced that Science would be turned on its head when they got their results and it's always turned out to be either completely mundane animals or contaminated/unclear. The one exception was Texan veterinarian Dr Melba S. Ketchum DVM who was the director of a DNA diagnostics lab (they checked your dog's DNA and told you what mix of breeds it was) and she sequenced some 'bigfoot hair' samples and eventually concluded that the bigfoot species was the result of female homo sapiens breeding with an unknown species a giant lemurs. Actual Science People expressed some doubt over this theory. She wrote up a paper but couldn't get any established journals to publish it so she went and created her own journal for the sole purpose of publishing her own paper.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Do people still make fake 911 calls about bigfoot? The one I remember the most was some dude calling about a huge ape that was as tall as his garage and could look inside his second story window. It was just kinda randomly in one of those "Spooky 911 calls!!" type youtube videos.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



The funny thing about Slenderman is I remember seeing the old thread and I was "that was pretty neat" and didn't think about it again. I tried to get into Marble Hornets but i didn't have the time and lacked the skills needed to really follow it. It wasn't until, I think sadly that case where the girls tried to kill their friend to meet Slenderman that I realized he had escaped into general pop culture outside of SA. I also around the same time saw a bunch of people going "No, Slenderman is totally real!" and posting lots of german woodcuts and someone claiming to have had their notebook from elementry school full of the XO thing that was associated with him, but you could clearly tell that it was brand new.

The weird thing about making him "real" as the way Bigfoot or Nessie is real, is that it would be like trying to say no honestly, you saw Pinhead when you were urban exploring some old hospital, or that you and your buddies were camping and you saw Jason when you went out to take a piss in the middle of the night. He's a pop culture character, not something that is meant to exist.

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M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?





banned from Starbucks posted:

Do people still make fake 911 calls about bigfoot? The one I remember the most was some dude calling about a huge ape that was as tall as his garage and could look inside his second story window. It was just kinda randomly in one of those "Spooky 911 calls!!" type youtube videos.

Closest I've come to that when I worked 911 was the one lady who called insisting there were werewolves digging in her garbage bin out back. I sent that one to animal control.

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