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clockwork chaos
Sep 15, 2009






BraveLittleToaster posted:

Shame mine didn't get picked, but congrats to the ones who did. Either way, a fresh new EO2 LP should be nice to watch along with.

echoing these sentiments, always a shame when your submission doesn't make it but eager to see the LP!

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MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014



...(Sigh)

Well, here we go, then. I look forward to seeing how this run goes - and how you're going to handle such a huge cast.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Well from my first little bit or recording, I immediately got exp desynced because 3 enemies went after the same person. Ahh, it's good to be back!

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.


Crosspeice posted:

Well from my first little bit or recording, I immediately got exp desynced because 3 enemies went after the same person. Ahh, it's good to be back!



Wishing you the best of luck on the LP.

Rofaner
May 30, 2011


Crosspeice posted:

Well from my first little bit or recording, I immediately got exp desynced because 3 enemies went after the same person. Ahh, it's good to be back!

That's_Etrian_Odyssey.gif

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

drat, just barely too late to push for the Bracer Guild again.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Part 2: Finding Our Feet

The Ones Engraved in Legends




It's time to properly get started with Guild Nidhogg! This will be in a password game, but for the new guild, they'll have the fresh save dialogue to keep consistency. We'll get re-introduced to the Edda guild after this with the password dialogue.

Wriggling maggots! I shall grind you to paste in my jaws!

Whoops, entirely different Nidhogg.



I recommend the Flaus Inn as a base of operations. You can rest or store things there. But your first stop should be the Duke's Palace. That's all I have to say. Farewell.



Hmm... seems everything is in order. Very well, little ones, I am Alastor, and you will do well to remember it. I'll keep you alive and perhaps slice an enemy or two. State your name and proposition.



You talk a lot fer such a wee lad! I'm Holly a... lumberjack, so you best be relyin' on me! Whatever you might've heard from o'er guilds is not true! I wouldn't know how to use a killer penguin anyway...



Killer penguins is something I've gotta see! Name's Logan, I'm an expert hunter and gatherer, though I prefer keeping my distance. The Grand Duchy's tasking us with cataloguing the Labyrinth, so I expect everyone's full co-operation!



Heh, sounds easy, I could do that in my sleep! I'm Lily, the great knight, paragon and protector of all! Heh, sounds like the textbook example, right? Well that's all me, baby, I know everything there is about shields, but, uh, don't count on me leading the pack, get it?



Well someone's confident, but we all have to be here, I'm Sonia, and slaying's my game. You've probably heard of my family, the Slicer's, so you should expect the same expertise from yours truly. Also, uh, if you happen to find some treasure, I can tell its worth, so you can trust me!



mmmmmm...

Pah, sleeping so peacefully. If only we could all be so lucky.

Mayhaps I could give her a little kick?

oh, it was my turn? i was just resting my eyes. kathy. like being clean, busting skulls and sleeping. i'm not so uncouth as to nod off at the drop of a hat. i could use a hat. got any sweets?



Sweets are the last thing on my mind. Corinth, pleased to meet you. I'm no stranger to fighting, but would prefer to keep it to a minimum. I'm pretty adept with my gauntlets, but I'm not using them unless I have to. And stop looking at me so much!



Well I can see in your eyes you've been through a lot, but then again so have I. I remember this one time, far beyond this simple hamlet, when I had such an innocuous encounter with a-

Please keep it brief. Says here your name is Juthro.

-but of course we only had seven sparrows. Hmm? Yes?

Just introduce yerself ya daft oval office!

That's what I was doing! You see, there was a tortoise that could only speak this dead language called "français" and-

Oh c'mon, c'mon, we don't have all day. It's my turn!



I'm Eleanore! If you want something sliced, I'm your gurl! I can defeat anything in my path and have come from the brink of death more times then you can say "prodigy"! You lot better not hold me back!!!



Shout any louder and I'll kick you! Hart is the label in which I am named, I'll be right behind you. One square exactly. Until you get out of my circle. Also keep that drat mutt away from me!

Grrrrrrrr...

don't be mean to the guildmaster's pet. very fluffy boy.

You have two names on your form, is the strange presence I see within you Sophia?

Yeah... hi. Long story short, an awry spell trapped a Ragelope in my body. I can control the eyes and mouth when I want, but this moron decides where to go. Sorry in advance for the kicks, he can't help it.

She's quite the nag too. Still don't agree with these things called "clothes".

YOU TAKE THOSE OFF AND YOU'LL NEVER SLEEP AGAIN!



It would be appearing that this is quite the energetical guild. I am Aleksandra Herkoff Gorbalena... uh... the 7th!

Aleks, got it.

I'm from more over the field from here so the culture is rather differential. I am hopping we can be good friends. Hoopling? Uh, hoping! Yes.



Excellent, glad we can all get acclimated like this. I believe if we start in this formation we can work well, so we shall head out shortly.

This creature is following me out...

The Guildmaster said our guild isn't ready to handle these Beasts yet. Shame, I've worked with tigers many times. Stay here, boy.

Hrrrrmph!

Land Spread Up North



Larger guild means longer introductions, let's start the show!



Well, welcome to Lagaard! There are lots of inns here, but my place is the best! You're explorers, right? Great! You'll fit right in. Try to get along with the other guilds!

Ah... hotel blankets. How... quaint.



The inn is where you sleep and recover your HP and TP, but not death or petrification. Sleep for 5am, Nap for 6pm, this game has a lot more time sensitive events compared to the last game, so it's important. We can also store items for 100en apiece and is great for powerful items we'll get early but won't use. Can't use it to store useless event items though.

Takes the EO team until 2016 to realize that maybe it'd be a good idea to have the inn cure everything with one function, instead of curing incapacitation being its own button.

They also fixed the hosed up inn fees to actually account for everyone in the party this time instead of only the first 4 party members. Time of day was a barely used mechanic in 1, but it's more important here. Annoyingly so unfortunately. On the plus side, storable items makes things much more convenient from this game onwards. Especially since key items no longer eat up your inventory slots.

Huh? What's wrong? Aren't you going into the Labyrinth today? Hmph! Lazy children... are you sure you can handle the Labyrinth? I wouldn't want guests of mine to be eaten by monsters, so don't let it happen!



A subdued, cold place for the healing arts. Paradise.



This is Lagaard Hospital, where we treat wounded explorers. We also deal with Sitoth Trading to provide medicine and other supplies. I'm looking forward to working with you.



Since you now buy healing items from the shop, this place is nearly useless, no wonder they rolled this feature into the inn next game and dropped it entirely. Still, if you don't want to fork out a Nectar or Refresh/Theriaca BX, you'll be coming here if an exploration goes south.

This is where you bought consumable healing items in the last game, but they moved that feature to the shop so uh, it's just... there. To revive or de-petrify people. Yeah that got dropped in the next game, and here's it's basically just a glorified screen for certain quests outside of that. Also say hi to our next resident Trauma Center cameo, Derek Stiles!

Insert standard observation of Dr. Stiles being, well, Dr. Stiles from Trauma Center.

Can I help you? If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. The Labyrinth...? Have you even entered it yet? Well, if you're looking for tips, I recommend taking at least one healer with you.

You have a choice between Medic and War Magus which is definitely helpful, but unlike in EO1 it's no longer outright suicidal to not bring a healer along.



Katana, katana, katana!!!



This is my father's shop. He makes equipment in the back, and I sell them up front. I'm just an assistant here, but I'm always on the job! Don't forget about me!

You can sell items obtained in the Labyrinth and buy the goods created from them. When buying items, you can press the Y button to jump to the next type of item. When selling items, you can use the Y button to sell multiplies of the same item. You may switch between party members on the bottom screen with the L or R buttons.



God I really missed these QOL stuff last LP. Selling multiple items at once, equipping straight onto your party, jumping to the next type of item, so good. You don't really miss it until all of those are gone.

Selling multiple items is still kinda jank and won't hit parity with basically every RPG since the late 90s until EO4.

Oh, you must be about to enter the Labyrinth, huh? Just wait until you see it! I've only been to the entrance, but I was still amazed! The lush greenery... those beautiful flowers... oh, but be careful! There are also a lot of dangerous monsters in the forest! You could be eaten! You look strong, so I'm sure you can handle them, but be careful anyway!

That's two town NPCs that have specifically referenced being eaten now. There are far worse fates to be had inside the Labyrinth than being eaten.



First order of business is getting weapons to replace the godawful Daggers that every class except Medic and Hexer come with, they have Wands, which are also awful. Since we can divulge into every aspect of this game, that is what I shall! In other posts. The main thing you need to know is that weapon speed modifiers are very important, and explains a lot of some of the jank with weapons that probably puzzled you.

Why do I bring this up immediately? Well, the Dagger and Wand are a -3 speed modifier, whereas a general sword is a +20 speed modifier. There are some weapons that have a unique speed modifier, and even a unique accuracy, we'll get into those when they come up, but otherwise weapons are as so: Swords give 98% accuracy, +20 speed; Staves give 98% accuracy, +0 speed; Axes give 95% accuracy, -5 speed; Katanas give 99% accuracy, +3 speed; Bows give 99% accuracy, +10 speed; Whips give 99% accuracy, +30 speed; Guns give 96% accuracy, -5 speed and Claws give 96% accuracy, +0 speed.

So here's why I'm detailing this now, the speed modifier formula is multiplicative, and there's only one factor in the formula that can be negative. You can see where I'm going with this. Or actually, you can't, because the developers did notice such a thing and made so if the final result was <1, it would just be 1. Firstly it means you're not gonna be as slow as you think you are, but the main problem is that if you have a negative speed modifier of any kind your final result will be 1, making all other factors like AGI and skill speed completely pointless. Now, early on you are able to claw your way back to a positive, so those factors become a, well, factor, but as AGI and skill speeds get higher and it puts you further into the negatives, you're getting that +1 speed modifier for most of the game. It's pretty annoying for weapons like guns and axes which will have a negative most of the time. And half of the staves, because gently caress you.

The EO games design equipment speed modifiers in a less bad way starting with EO3, and then they continue to get tweaked bit by bit with every game after, with the same core system from EO3.

Unfortunately, speed is still an incredibly hosed up mechanic in this game. Where last game you were prone to having random results, this game instead basically boosts fast characters and makes sure that slower characters stay slow. Also fun fact, speed is literally an unfinished mechanic on top of being really hosed up. I'll detail more about this in a Jank Odyssey update.



EO2 is the game that seems to least understand how powerful equipment boosting every stats at once is, it kinda owns. Eagerly looking forward to rediscovering the power of this game's ultimate sword.

And while we're equipping stuff, the Town Medal/Crown is your reward for clearing the main game/100% the game in EO1. It's a nice early boost, I'll put this on Alastor since I want more healing and it doesn't really matter this early on. The Town Medal is a little worse at HP+5, TP+5, All Stats+1, but considering how much of a pain it is to 100% EO1, it's perfectly fine. We'll be shoving this in storage soon enough. Anyway, here's all the weapons we can get right now:

Kukri - Sword, ATK+18 - A short blade that's curved like a sickle.
Staff - Stave, ATK+15, TP+5 - Two-handed staff used by forest explorers.
Francisca - Axe, ATK+18 - An easy-to-use small axe.
Sasuga - Katana, ATK+20 - Has a sharp edge despite its small size.
Sling - Bow, ATK+16 - Swung around one's head to let loose stones.
Plain Whip - Whip, ATK+17 - A slender weapon used to stop enemies.
Fire Gun - Gun, ATK+21 - A simple firearm that holds a single shell.

If you're coming from the later games, you're gonna want to discard some of that knowledge on gear prioritization as they don't really apply here. While weapons are important in this game, weapon ATK isn't really a super important part of the damage formula so you only want to upgrade weapons once in a while instead of whenever you can.



Buying weapons for all 5 took pretty much all of our money, but was worth it. While Hart doesn't benefit much, only getting +3 to speed, he also gets TP+5 and it's a stave that doesn't have a negative speed modifer, so it's good enough for me! We can't afford anything else except for a couple Medicas, but we'll be fiiiiiine, probably.

+5 TP is, like, an extra use of a skill earlygame. That's pretty decent.

If you're playing a password game, you definitely want to stock up on these. Probably around 5 or so, though you can get away with less if you have a healer in the party. If you aren't playing a password game, don't bother buying any medicinal supplies right now and save those for equipment! And no I didn't mix up my statements, I meant what I said. You'll see why shortly.



Buckler - Shield, DEF+5 - A small shield, designed to deflect attacks.
Hairpin - Helmet, DEF+3, TP+3 - Hair clip made of shaved wood splinters.
Thick Gage - Gloves, DEF+2, STR+1 - Gloves worn by starting adventurers.
Leaf Boot - Footwear, DEF+2, AGI+1 - Basic sandals made from forest leaves.

Armour isn't anything special still, but the various helmets/gloves/shoes are more appealing this time due to having better stat boosts than last game. You can end fights very quickly due to all the many ways to cheese this game, but due to how the damage formula works, it's very worth getting armour later on, when the big enemies do the big damage. It's not something you'd know to do without knowing the numbers, but it is important, everything was rebalanced from EO1, but like usual, got balanced a bit too far in the other direction.

Armor on the other hand, is far far more important! The amount of damage armor cuts down on is huge due to this game's absolutely bizarre damage formula. You definitely want to upgrade armor whenever you can as the amount of survivability it grants is exponential! To the point it got nerfed super hard in EO3, and wouldn't get good again until EO5. Ugh.

Then EO3 just broke armor with bizarro moon math that no sensible designer should've ever conceived. Then EO4 used the same bad math. And then EOU somehow designed even worse math, which EO2U also used.



To add to this there's also Accessories. Last game they were pretty pathetic and didn't really help you much, but they got a needed boost this time, there are some real good accessories in this game and some are even better than advertised!

EO2 doesn't have the "complete nullification of an entire damage type" accessory cheese that EO3 is infamous for, but it's got some real ridiculous poo poo of its own.

Unlike the later titles, you can stack accessories in this game. Enjoy it while you can.

The Wind Shall Summon Heroes



What is this strange, tangy smell?

...the thought of a drunk Ragelope seems terrifying and hilarious all at once.

Haven't seen yeh before... s'pose yeh're an explorer, come to see the Labyrinth. Then yeh're in the wrong place! Go talk to the bigwigs at the Duke's Palace first. That's the rules for yer type! Whaddaya doing, just standing there? Hurry up and get to the Duke's Palace!



Ah quests... they were bad in EO1 and they're bad here. Thankfully they've dropped some of the more extreme item drop quests, but there's also a lot of quests in long chains that stretch all throughout the game, including one quest that will sit in the list for a very, very long time. It sucks and I don't want to do them, but here we are.

Ugh, I'm glad I'm not the one questing this time. EO2's quests are still really awful, that much did not change from EO1 sadly. And in some respects they're even worse! You'll see why when we take some quests later.

At least we've got Cass, who owns. His accent got toned down to the point of nonexistence in EO2U, sadly.

Fun fact, Cass's Japanese name is Antonio.

What? Aren't yeh done with yer first mission yet? Don't lie to me! I see through yeh! They'll let me know one yeh're done. So get to it already, and come back then!

The Beautifully Noble Land



We've had enough pleasure for now, onto the main event.



I am Minister Dubois, faithful servant. My duties range from managing the citizens to overseeing exploration of the Labyrinth. You are, I see, another band of hopeful explorers come to make your mark in the forest. However, only official citizens of Lagaard are allowed past the Labyrinth's 1st floor. You must pass a test of our devising in order to register as a citizen.



I believe we are all in agreement.

You bet! This is gonna be the challenge of a lifetime!

We must be in great standing to be alieving our dreamings.

Anything that let's me kick something!

Anything that gets me my body back!!!

This whip won't slay by itself you know.



You see, it is the Duke who wishes that the Labyrinth be explored. Our ultimate goal is to find the legendary floating castle. Perhaps it's only a myth. But chasing a myth should be the very fabric of life for an explorer, shouldn't it? If you find the floating castle, you will be greatly rewarded. Possibly even ennobled. But I'm getting ahead of myself. First, you must accomplish this mission and prove yourself.

At the Grand Duchy, you can undertake tasks called Missions. By accepting and completing these missions, you will receive various rewards. To take a mission, select "Accept missions" and read the description beneath.



Always so much talking, but we're nearly done. This is where plot is, hopefully with less native murder and centrist attendant. This is also where you'll report the various monsters, items and gear from the labyrinth, but you shouldn't do that and we'll go over it later.

If you thought 100%ing EO1 was awful, 100%ing EO2 is probably just as bad! If not worse in some respects!

]

You have undertaken a mission to create a basic map of the Labyrinth's first floor. It is essential that you master mapmaking skills before going too far into the Labyrinth. Go forth to the 1st floor and speak to the guard on duty for more details. When you have proven your worth in this challenge, report back to me... I will confirm you as citizens of the Grand Duchy and approve your travel through the forest. Take this parchment. It is blank now... but someday you will fill it with the forest's secrets.



Like I said before, key items no longer eat up your inventory slots, so that's nice. 60 items means 60 normal items this time.

Oh yes... it may be wise to visit the inn and Sitoth Trading before venturing into the Labyrinth. If you are not properly prepared for exploring, your journey will be all the more difficult.



Our touch screen has been unlocked, now it's time for the actual game! Wow!




It's night time, can't interact with the pole, story of my life, and can only go to the first stratum. Let's begin.

Ancient Forest





Ahhhh, it's so nice to be back. I've missed this flora, maybe just a quick snack...

You better not, I hate the taste of grass!

You are always focussing on the ground, when the labyrinth is so pretty up there.

I appreciate your acceptance in starting late, my complexion and light do not mix.

I've done plenty of work in the night, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a great shadow watching us even now.

A shadowy figure?! I'll kick your rear end!



This forest maze exists within Yggdrasil, the tree that looms over the town of Lagaard. As you marvel at its beauty, a guard appears before you.



I'm in the Grand Duchy's guard corps. We help explorers like yourself on missions.

The guard takes a hard look at you before speaking again.

I'll get right to the point. Shall we begin your first trial to become an official citizen? It's a simple task. I'll lead you to a certain area of the Labyrinth. All you have to do then... is find your back here.

The guard turns and takes a few steps before beckoning you to follow.

Come. Your adventures in the Yggdrasil Labyrinth are about to begin.

Keep up, Hart.

I am attempting... but that drat bell he's using to ward off monsters... ugh, such a racket.

Working with what is usually my prey is... gonna be interesting.




The guard scans your anxious faces and softens in an attempt to encourage you.

It's not so bad. Just draw a map and you'll find your way back to town with no trouble.

The guard points to the brand-new parchment clutched tightly in your fists.

Why don't I give you a quick lesson on how to orient yourselves?



Simple tutorial, no need, we'll go in depth in a moment.

Enough chitchat, then. I'll be waiting for you at the entrance to Lagaard. I look forward to seeing you return safely, map in hand.

And with those words, the guard leaves you alone in the forest.



But just before we begin, because it's never that easy, this was the password version, here's the clean start:



Oh, yes... I almost forgot. Something for novice explorers, just in case.

The guard rummages through his pack and doles out a supply of medication to the party.

x5

The forest can be more dangerous than it looks. Always be on your guard while inside it.

The guard's cheery warning echoes ominously alongside the clanging of his armor as he leaves.

Yeah. In a non-password game, you get a big amount of help at the start. That's why I told you not to buy any Medicas on a non-password save. If you're using a password save? You're veterans, get hosed. Did you think importing your EO1 save was going to be all sunshine and rainbows? Ohoho no! This is Atlus we're talking about here!



Finally, the game begins. Compared to the first game, we've like tripled the amount of mapping tools, such as different map colours, being able to draw at the borders of the screen, and mother loving ARROWS! Of course there's still plenty missing from future games, but this is so nice. God last game was kinda terrible, huh?

God there are already so many improvements in the mapping tools. You were stuck with 1 color in EO1, no arrows so shortcuts had to be marked weirdly. And drawing on the edges of the screen was impossible and you have to scroll the zoomed in map screen in one direction to do so. They definitely improved on a lot from EO1 at the very least.

It's really hard to convey this in screenshots, obviously, but EO2 still has the really finicky line drawing "hit detection," for lack of a better term, from EO1. I've tried revisiting EO1 and EO2 and just get frustrated at the games not registering that I've drawn a line on the map. EO3's a little better about it, and then EO4 and on seem to have completely rewritten the mapping code with line drawing hit detection I've never had an issue with.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...



Hold up, bitch, the tutorials aren't over until I say so. How you spend your inital 3SP will help your first foray a fair bit. I've gone for the pretty bog standard team for this game in R/D/W/G/H, though I've put Alastor up front to help spread damage around a bit better. Please refer to the class writeups to see how each skill works, but to begin with, Eleanore will head for Orochi and Kienzan, I'm not looking at anything else until then. Sonia has a lot of very powerful, but pretty late skills, so I'll get Viper and work towards Climax. Alastor will be healing for a while, since it's very important, but will pick up Warmight pretty quickly, before Salve. Aleks will get all 3 elemental shots and then head for Richochet and Medishot. Finally Hart has many illegal things, but we'll go for Torpor and Revenge for randoms. I'll hold off on Poison and Dampen until later. Quick and dirty, but it's not too important to start with.

Torpor's a good option for early hexer contribution until you can max out Poison, yeah.



Maybe just a quick nibble while she's not looking- hmm? Hey guys, check this out!

As you stroll through the forest, you spot brightly hued flowers at the base of a tree. Their vibrant color stands out against the forest green, as if luring you to them. You wonder what the harm could be in bending over to take a closer look. You are torn between examining the flowers and proceeding with your journey.



Meh.

I should be getting these for my candeleers, uh, right?

You can look so long as you don't bend at the hip, Hart, use your goddamn knees!

I'll pick this one!

You lean in close to the flowers, noting carefully their structure and color. Suddenly, the blossoms begin to twitch, as if reacting to your presence! At so close a distance, you receive a faceful of pollen. You back away quickly. However, Eleanore inhaled the pollen and begins to sneeze uncontrollably!



This *achoo* will NOT *achoo* DEFEAT *ACHOO* *ACHOO*

After some time, Eleanore's sneezing fit finally stops. You take this as a warning not to be so careless as you progress through the forest.



Aside from a red nose, you're perfectly fine.

An insurmountable challenge five steps in, but I have surpassed it!

Whatever let's you sleep.

A big interruption so soon, but this is why I started at night, this is the event during the day:



But they seem to be weakened from the harsh sun, and have not emerged from their buds. You sigh, sure that they would have been beautiful blossoms, and continue your journey.

As an aside, this is as far as I bothered with the non-password game, so anything from this point on is the actual save we'll be using. But yeah, a weird first event you could encounter. Either you come back here later after first seeing this, and get a reward of a HP loss, thanks game, or you somehow know to start the game at night and get penalized for your efforts. Weird.




It's a flying box!!!

With some of the usefulls.

Maybe the next one will be jewels...

Treasure chests still don't actually open when you take their contents. Gotta wait until EO3 for that.

The First Campaign



The circle in the corner went from blue to green to orange to red, so it's time to battle.

Come at me, fools!!!

I'm glad to be on the opposite side of miss wide mouth there.


Hedgehog

HP: 45
STR: 7
VIT: 7
TEC: 6
AGI: 14
LUC: 12
Level: 2
Exp: 79

Skills
Needle: Uses the Head. Deals 120% Stab damage to a single target. Has a 95% accuracy modifier and a 100% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 150%
150% 100% 100%

Disable Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Drops
Rat Needle: 50% chance, sells for 5en.
1 required for Falcatta - Sword, ATK+20 - sells for 150en
2 required for Green Leaf - Clothing, DEF+9, AGI+1 - sells for 110en
FIFTEEN required for Warabide - Katana, ATK+39, STR+2, -5 speed - sells for 450en

Conditional: Kill before turn 2
Long Pin: 50% chance, sells for 15en
7 required for Hindi - Bow, ATK+36, AGI+3, LUC+3 - sells for 560en
3 required for The leathersmith's request

The enemy approaches! We don't really have any skills to use, but the regular attack will be fine to dispatch these. There's no more level correction so that early stratum enemies kick your rear end and are then pathetic later on, the code is in the game, it just doesn't do much of anything. Instead it's a more even playing field, since enemy stats are also scaled way the heck back from before. No more 400+ ATK enemies later, cap is 99. Also, just to give me even more work, enemies now have individual resistances to the various ailments, though as you start to notice when poring over the data, it doesn't make that much of a difference. Oh well, it's the first enemy you'll likely encounter, so let's kick its rear end.

Like Cross said, level correction as a mechanic is completely gone, so just use the level stat here as a benchmark of where your party should be level-wise when fighting enemies instead. The code is still in the game, but all it's used for is to reduce monster damage by 20%. Also separate ailment resistances, hooray! Not sure why that was all stuffed into one stat before.

Hedgehogs are going to be one of the 2 trash mobs you'll run into at this point in the game to help ease you into the battle system. Not much really to them. Curiously enough, they're one of 2 enemies in the entire game that are weak to Bashing attacks.

The groundwork for how enemies function in the rest of the series is laid in EO2, but not actually used all that well.



Hmph, I'm more than just a pale face!

Of course since I decided not to buy armour, the enemies will hurt quite a bit, but as you saw from the damage, it'll only be an issue if 3 enemies gang up on one person. What are the chances of that?



I still think I should draw the map...

We were having you the option, but Alastor said he'll do it since you put the pencil between your teeths.

Ugh, I can still taste the rubber...



Here's the craziest addition to the series, using L or R let's you walk like a crab! I'll use it every now and then so we don't have the top screen constantly looking at a wall, nor try and explain how the guild is walking like that, but it's so niiiiiiice. Can you see even with its flaws how much I love this game after playing the first one?

The lack of sidestepping in EO1 is so bizarre. Surely between all of the Wizardry, Might & Magic, etc. games, Kazuya Niinou played at least one of them that had sidestepping?

The lack of sidestepping and the lack of a quick save function were bizarrely touted as features in EO1. This was instantly dropped in the 2nd game probably because missing those QOL features was really stupid.



You need glasses old man, hiyah!

While flattering, I'm only 310, hardly that old.

Oh yeah, get used to whiffs in this game. Everyone has an eyesight issue in EO2 due to how accuracy works in this game.



Everyone's doing around the same damage, so 3 attacks takes out a Hedgehog, easily netting us the conditional. Like before I'll be using AR codes to get drops when I fancy because you might have noticed we need 15 of one and 10 of the other to get all the drops. That is distressingly common and it's a right pain.

The experience curve got a complete rework in this game, which is why you're seeing different numbers there compared to EO1. This would be the standard that would be followed for the rest of the franchise until Etrian Odyssey Nexus reworked the level curve to accommodate its game pacing.

Good news, items have higher drop rates than in EO1. Bad news, you have to grind a lot more to unlock poo poo!

EOU for some reason saw fit to keep some of the dumbass drop requirements from EO1, but EO2U mercifully reworked all of the bad ones from EO2. I think the only remnant is...it was either the sky metal helm or the angelic cap requiring 30 of something.

Okay, I went back and checked, it was the sky metal helm. Gods, ronin do not fare well in EO2U.



Lily looked around nervously when she told us about the labyrinth's doors. It can't be that bad, right?



Their petals sway in the breeze as the aroma grows stronger. You wonder if it would be so bad to take a brief rest here amidst the fragrant blossoms.



I sense something afoot, shallhaps we-

Too late for that.

Aaaaahhhhhhh~

A small break couldn't hurt.

You decide to stretch out and rest amongs [sic] the sweet-smelling blossoms.

Hey, watch out behind you!

Who are you?! And what are those... purple... butterflies... oh poo poo.

But your experiences as members of Edda gives you an uneasy feeling about this. And indeed, it isn't long until other forest denizens are drawn to the sweet pollen! As you turn around, you spot a pack of butterflies that were drawn to the flower's pollen. Worse, these are no ordinary butterflies--it's a swarm of dangerous Venomflies! They're almost upon you! Draw your weapons and fight!



Oh... this is gonna be painful...

drat flyingbutters, I haven't finished researching medicinal bullets yet.


Venomfly

HP: 57
STR: 8
VIT: 8
TEC: 12
AGI: 9
LUC: 9
Level: 5
Exp: 204

Skills
Poison: Uses the Head. Attempts to inflict Poison on the entire party. Has a 35% base infliction chance, deals 20-30 damage and has a 100% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 150% 100%
100% 100% 100%

Disable Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Drops
Bug Wing: 35% chance, sells for 11en.
1 required for Wood Bow - Bow, ATK+27, +20 speed - sells for 170en Required for The item trade I
1 required for Hard Vest - Clothing, DEF+11 - sells for 180en
1 required for Venom Ring - Accessory, Poison Resist Up 50% - sells for 800en
1 required for Theriaca B - Medicine, LV8 Refresh, removes all ailments from a single target - sells for 100en
4 required for Wing Leaf - Clothing, DEF+13, HP+5 - sells for 200en
6 required for Hindi - Bow, ATK+36, AGI+3, LUC+3 - sells for 560en

Conditional: Kill with Volt
Lymph: 80% chance, sells for 20en
3 required for Matchlock - Gun, ATK+46, STR+3 - sells for 530en

The real Etrian Odyssey starts here. In a password game you're fighting these no matter what, but for the first event you're likely to come across, little bit mean there huh game? It's a cute reference since in a non-password game you recover 10HP if you say yes, no fight there at all. Still, so long as Sonia doesn't take damage she'll be just fine. That is the wombo combo of this enemy, especially since we don't have any real armour to speak of.

Venomflies are back and they want you! This is a callback to a very nasty event in EO1 at the start of the game, and if you're on a password save, the only way to avoid this event is to never go into this room. Yeah, makes you wonder if a password game is even worth it. Venomflies got a very nasty upgrade. Their poison was single target in 1, here it's AOE! This makes them incredibly vicious and high priority targets to take out!



You feel your bodies crack!

I would like you to be zapping!

Frailty doesn't reduce the enemy's resistances by much at all this early, but I'll max this skill eventually and want Hart to do something early on. Oh hey Sonia doesn't have enough health to survive-



Oh that's a lot of blood...

No need to be particularly in worry, I'm here with- oh it's over.

3rd fight and I'm exp desynced. While Aleks does have a negative speed weapon, since it's still very early, she can get just enough to be faster than +0 Hart. But later on as Aleks gets more AGI and skill speed, Hart will be outspeeding her in pretty much all cases.



Well better to use it than not...

Ugh, I need to find a way to avoid that. But who was that long haired saviour?

Ah, hello, just looking out for newbies. Everybody gets one. Bye.



The mineral water that flows here is crystal-clear and shimmers beautifully in the sun. You stop for a while to enjoy its brisk refreshment, then resume your journey onward.

Neat!



Ugh, if there's nothing worsened than an animal, it's a cold animal.


Woodmai

HP: 45
STR: 6
VIT: 7
TEC: 6
AGI: 7
LUC: 6
Level: 2
Exp: 84

Skills
Shell: Doesn't use a body part. Reduces all physical damage by 50% for 5 turns. Has a 100% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 150%

Disable Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Drops
Husk Shard: 50% chance, sells for 6en.
1 required for Green Leaf - Clothing, DEF+9, AGI+1 - sells for 110en
2 required for Amud Staff - Staff, ATK+18, TP+18 - sells for 130en
3 required for Husk Shard - Headgear, DEF+5, TP+5 - sells for 90en
THIRTY required for Maimai Bat - Staff, ATK+37, TP+10 - sells for 420en

Conditional: None

Considering there's 4 enemies on this floor, we got pretty lucky encountering only half of them. Woodmai just kinda sit there and don't do much, so you should take them out last. As you can see with the drops we need THIRTY to get an alright stave, gonna be a waste of my time. However, due to how often you'll encounter this drat thing throughout the stratum, it's pretty likely you'll get this long after it's useful.

Woodmai are the other trash mob I was talking about. Some of their turns will be spent drawing out the battle instead but it won't matter too much at this point in the game since they go down pretty easily.




Three, three hits to death, ah ah bleh...

Who heals the healer.



Why game. Just why. Our levels won't be exciting for a while, Eleanore is 2 levels from an actual attack, Aleks picks up Iceshot, the last of the three, and Hart will get Torpor next level.

Yeah the gang up situation still happens in this game since enemies decide who they want to attack at the start of the turn instead of on their turn. The next game would fix this issue but you'll have to deal with enemies potentially really hating a certain party member on a given turn.



That's the area we need to map. Not hugely exciting and has some questionable events, but at least it can be done in one go.



Ah! Made it back safely, I see.

The guard's voice is cheerful as he looks over your progress on the map. After looking at your map, the guard's cheerful voice emanates from his helmet.

I'd say your mission to create a map of the Labyrinth's 1st floor is a success. The Minister will grant you citizenship to High Lagaard and full access to the Labyrinth. My part is done. You may go on from here, but I suggest your report to the Minister first.

The guard finishes his speech and steps aside, allowing you to reach the stairs back to town. You may go back to Lagaard now or continue exploring the Yggdrasil Labyrinth.

I'm glad that's over and out with. Going in such an elongated path was nervelacking.

Nervewracking, and yes, it's weird, but I'm getting used to this. Especially when you act normal!

Our first exploration was a roaring success! Good work everyone!



Exactly, Alastor, it was hard, but it was my pleasure.

I am looking forward to the napster.



The maps the game gives you always have something wrong... and gotta paint under the stairs because I'm not a goddamn SAVAGE. Next time we'll get some armour and properly explore the first floor!

theshim
May 1, 2012

You think you can defeat ME, Ephraimcopter?!?

You couldn't even beat Assassincopter!!!


To this day I still find non-guaranteed conditional drops to be infuriating.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



theshim posted:

To this day I still find non-guaranteed conditional drops to be infuriating.

I hardly think you're alone in this.

Also, congrats to Alastor for being dead, just like his idols.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


theshim posted:

To this day I still find non-guaranteed conditional drops to be infuriating.

I'm fine with it on random encounters and if the conditional is easy enough to get since you're more likely to run into a bunch of attempts to go for it. But for stuff like FOEs, especially when they take far more effort to kill in modern EO games compared to earlier EO games that aren't 2, they really should be guaranteed.

Granted Scavenge exists in this game and is loving broken as poo poo. Sadly Scavenge can't help against farming loving 30 of an item drop as it can't speed that part up heavily.

Verant
Oct 20, 2012

Go on an adventure ordained by fate?
-->Okay.
-->Eh.

Huzzah, my character got first blood! ...wait, oh. Oh no.

TeeQueue
Oct 9, 2012

The time has come. Soon, the bell shall ring. A new world will come. Rise, my servants. Rise and serve me. I am death and life. Darkness and light.




I never played a password version of the game, and that venomflies ambush makes me suddenly glad I didn't.

Jadecore
Mar 10, 2018

They say money can't buy happiness, but it sure does help.

Yeah, the password system really feels like the devs trying to poke fun at you because you already have some expectations going in, but in a way that's not half as fun as they thought it was, huh.

Also, I have to say, Hart is instantly incredibly endearing.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


So let me get this straight: due to the coding of the game, weapons with negative speed modifier not only tecnically give you a speed modifier of +1 but also force you to have a speed modifier of +1 regardless of the rest of your stats, and Daggers, which in all media are presented as quick and fast weapons and are the weapons you start with, have a negative speed modifier.

Cracking open this game is gonna be a wild adventure

SimplyUnknown1
Aug 18, 2017

Cat Cat Cat


Ok, those butterflies are just mean. I forgot just how mean Atlus could be at times, especially in the earlier EO games. At least this one is on purpose.

I'm glad you managed to work Rajah in a little bit; I wasn't expecting to see him until you unlocked Beasts later. At least the guild can get used to him, though hopefully Hart doesn't kick him.

kvx687
Dec 29, 2009



Soiled Meat

This is already getting off to a fantastic start I'm looking forward to the adventures of this band of lovable idiots. Also:

Crosspeice posted:


By Huckebein on Discord, already the guild is resonating with peeps.

Holy? poo poo? I love it, oh my god

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

Ah this brings back memories. I eventually settled on a main party for this game, and went in with Landsknecht, War Magus, Medic, Alchemist and Hexer. The Hexer was what allowed me to to just straight-up massacre my way through the later stratums, it was quite silly. For some reason my party always tended to have some trouble with bosses, though. I eventually stopped playing during postgame with a healthy "gently caress this poo poo".

Still, so far this is the only EO-game I actually finished. My lazy rear end is still stuck in the last stratum of EOIII, and then my progress gets progressively sadder with each following title.

Blaziken386
Jun 26, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd


These goofs are all great, I love 'em.

Crosspeice posted:


By Huckebein on Discord, already the guild is resonating with peeps.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Common Passives

Along with all the various skills a class has, all of them have a variety of common passives that you have to scroll past every time you want to use SP. Unlike EO1, where some classes got some of these skills, every class now has each of them, letting you choose what you want on them. It's not hugely exciting, but it's still worth a look.

HP Up


A HP boost might not seem important, but with how useful armour is in this game, you tend to have a lot more to work with, and a ~50% boost is drat nice. Of course this is amazing for Hexers getting to 999HP but also works great on vaguely tanky classes that don't care about the other passive stats like STR Up or AGI Up, like Protector or War Magus. Dark Hunters love it too to survive various Bait hits, as do non-Loyalty Beasts, though they have other passives to go for if you want.

TP Up


But the star of the show is definitely this skill, double your TP stat? Why the gently caress not!!! Pretty much every class wants this due to more expensive skills being thrown around, and for some classes like Alchemist, it's practically required! Some like Troubadours and Survivalists don't really care about this all too much, since you also need to invest a good amount to get worthwhile amounts. Can't put one point for that 10% boost like before, so they're both definitely lategame options, but definitely don't turn your nose up, these are two very nice passives to have.

STR/VIT/TEC/AGI/LUC Up


Next up are some weird ones, for the most part these are only really point sinks that you take to get other skills. They are useful if you're gonna go all out, 10 points of STR never hurt, but various equipment can also do such a thing while you invest elsewhere. Should definitely stop when you do reach the skill you want and then continue later if you wish, though some classes don't have that option, and if you have a skill that requires, say, AGI Up 7, do you really need to put in those last three points? I would definitely recommend going for HP Up or TP Up first, but it can be worth filling these out later on, especially for classes that aren't particularly varied.

As for the specifics, obviously STR Up and TEC Up are nice to get on the specific classes that use it, especially if they don't need much else, like Ronin and Alchemist. VIT Up doesn't make or break defensive classes, they prefer the armour and accessories, but Protectors and Beasts might as well get them. AGI Up and LUC Up are a little harder to recommend since their benefits aren't immediate. 10 extra LUC to inflict and resist ailments doesn't really amount to much, so only take it if you have to, while AGI can help but if you don't go before the enemy you've wasted your time. Easy to ignore on the molasses classes. But yeah, only stuff to grab at the end of the game, unless you need it as a prerequisite, but still important to get.

Esc Up


Now for one point, an escape boost. Eh, okay? Unlike later games it's not massively difficult to run away, it's nice to get this on someone who you can depend on to run if need be, but it doesn't work when you're trapped by FOEs and is otherwise pretty whatever. Take it if you want.

Chop/Mine/Take
Chop innate to: Survivalist, Dark Hunter, Alchemist, War Magus
Take innate to: Survivalist, Medic, Troubadour, Hexer, Gunner
Mine innate to: Landsknecht, Survivalist, Protector, Ronin


It's gathering time, for your gathering party, completely ignore these otherwise. Sure you could put a point in these to get some items but they nerfed the cash you can get from gathering and you would prefer not to get into the gathering ambushes while you're out and about anyway. Just use the Survivalist for your gathering needs, they're not that useful for much else. While the Beast's skill is neat, it requires more to unlock, they can't reduce the encounter rate and their low AGI means they can't run from ambushes as much as they'd like.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Landsknecht



Can equip: Swords, Axes, Heavy Armor, Light Armor, Shields

How the mighty have fallen. Ah, excuse me, I'll be saying that a lot as we go over each class. Landsknechts were pretty good attackers in 1, they could mix between line clearing swords and heavy single target axes, they were great in all situations, if you planned properly. Just send them at the enemy and do work, and that's still the case in 2, except they don't do as much damage, their skills got nerfed a bit too hard, they have godawful TP for how much their skills cost and unlike in 1, Ronin are available from the start and it's so hard recommending them over Ronin. They can take some hits and have some interesting utility, but some of the big powerhouses from 1 did not transition smoothly.

Oh god, EO2's class balance is sure something. Everything good from EO1 got nerfed into the ground, and oh boy Landsknecht did not survive the beating from the nerfhammer. It's really hard to recommend using this class when Ronin is better than them in almost every single way. Rarely has a class in the series been completely and utterly outdone by another class in the same game, but EO2 Landsknecht is the biggest textbook example.



Now you might compare these stats to how they were in 1 and go, wait a minute, they're pretty much the same at level 99, what's the big deal? Well that's the problem, I've included the level 99 stats for a fun comparison, it is practically impossible to reach there, since you can only increase the level cap past 70 when you retire. And it increases by 1. So you get to level 71 and retire. So you get to level 72 and retire, repeat for hundreds and hundreds of hours because it takes so much exp to get to that point, since you're going through every single level every single time. So level 71 is the acceptable limit and you can see how much more mediocre a lot of classes are. Still, stats did get scaled properly so 99 is the cap for (nearly) everything, but the Landy's skills got reworked as well so the damage output just isn't as impressive.

In any case, the stats here mean the Landy is a pretty beefy, pretty fast class. It does above average in every aspect except TP, which it beats out the Ronin by ONE POINT. That's kinda pathetic and the main issue with exponential skill levels is TP pretty much always increases, and skills cost a lot more than they did in 1. This makes Landys pretty okay in most aspects but they run out of steam quickly. They sit solidly in the middle of overall stat averages, so they're as exciting as they seem.

TP Up is pretty much a must to ensure that Landsknechts don't run dry and don't need to develop an Amrita addiction to keep going. That stat passive should be one of your first priorities when you get around to boosting their stats. They'll also get a nice hefty defensive bonus out of HP Up, which is a must if you plan on having them use War Cry. Maxing out STR Up is an absolute must in order to keep their very middling damage competitive. The rest of the stats are basically take it or leave it. VIT Up can be okay, but it won't help much if you're using War Cry. If you're using Axes, don't even bother with AGI Up, it's worthless there. Not that Axes are that worth it in this game.

Common Passive Unlocks

STR Up: Lv1: Brawn, War Cry
AGI Up: Lv1: Hypercut

Here's just a quick thing so you can see what passives you need to invest in for specific skills. It's usually nothing extravagent, especially because 1 point doesn't really amount to much in this game, but the skills can sometimes be very good. War Cry was amazing last game, not so much this game and Brawn is pretty hard to use, while Hypercut isn't anything special, so, uh, invest in a Landy's passives when you fancy, there's no real rush.

Swords/Axes
Swords Unlocks: Lv1: Cleaver; Lv3: Tornado; Lv5: Allslash, Hypercut, Blazer, Freezer, Shocker, 2-Hit; Lv7: Riskcut; Lv8: Counter
Axes Unlocks: Lv1: Deathaxe; Lv3 Silencer; Lv5: Brawn, Lifeaxe, Blazer, Freezer, Shocker, 2-Hit; Lv7: Stunner; Lv8: Counter
Passive


The mastery skills are much simpler this time around, there's no kind of variation, they are all trap skills, with Healer being the exception, of course. Because they boost damage by a tiny amount, invest as much as you need and don't go any further, waste of time. Lv5 is when most of the good stuff gets unlocked, so feel free to stop there. Due to how Landys can't really invest in both trees as effectively, you can only stick to one, but some useful skills require investing in both. The Chasers give Landys some unique utility that doesn't get outclassed in damage by the Ronin, somewhat, while Counter is a passive Bait so can be useful. Not really worth all the extra SP to unlock it, but it's something.

As for which tree to invest in, it's Swords. Axes weren't very useful in 1 outside of Crush and both them AND Landys have been nerfed since then, so it's a really sad state of affairs. The sword skills were still nerfed, of course, with Allslash being the worst hit, but we'll get to that in a moment, sigh. For both trees, Riskcut and Stunner are poo poo so stop at Lv5, there's really no point going further.

Yet another gutting, and the beginning of the end. Mastery skills used to be worth something in EO1. Then they got heavily nerfed and started an ugly trend of being nothing more than point sinks that uh, never really ended in the series. Better than masteries in EO3 I suppose where the damage boost only affects regular attacks and nothing more. Eugh.

And yes, Axes really aren't worth bothering with in this game. Go with Swords, they're just far better. For you EO1 veterans, no, it's really not worth hybriding in this game. All the Axe skills are completely terrible this time around, so it's really not worth the effort to pull something like that off this time. And if you're thinking why not just use Axes for when you're using Chasers... it's really not worth it at all. Weapons in 2 have their attack power divided by 3 when going through the damage formula, and the gap between Swords and Axes isn't that big, so that's a very miniscule damage boost you're looking at there. Chasers already need a specific party setup to get the most out of, and dealing with the hassle of being locked out of Sword skills is really not worth a tiny damage boost. Not only that starting from EO2, weapons have their own speed modifiers as well. And Swords come with a massive speed boost while Axes come with a big speed penalty. So Axes are really not worth using in this game!

Once you grab all the skills you uh, might as well finish off their skill build by maxing out the mastery of the weapon you're using. Hey, what are you gonna be using that SP for, Riskcut?

Counter
Prerequisites: Swords Lv8, Axes Lv8
Has a chance of countering physical damage, even if damage was blocked. For conditional drops, solely uses the equipped weapon to determine damage type. Passive.


Here's a good skill you'll never get to. You shouldn't invest in Axes, so getting it to Lv8 to unlock this is such a waste of SP, along with getting Swords past Lv5. Still, what you have is good, even if it's just an "oh, neat" moment that you can't rely on. Unfortunately you need the Landy to be targeted AND then have it activate for it to even work, so it's definitely a poor man's Bait. It'll happen less likely than you think, especially since it doesn't work for elemental damage, which is everywhere lategame.

It's an alright passive I suppose. An effective 35% damage reflect against physical attackers, but it's a very low priority skill to pick up. A small little thing. If a Protector defensive nullifies an attack, Counter will still deal the full amount of damage it would have dealt to the Landsknecht. Not a huge thing, but it's kind of neat I guess.

2-Hit
Prerequisites: Swords Lv5, Axes Lv5
Normal attacks have a attack of hitting twice. Passive.


Great, this is back. It has a slightly higher chance of proccing than in 1, but putting 10SP into this is such a waste considering normal attacks are pretty whatever and Landys struggles to stand out as it is in the damage department. No.

Regular attack boosts were trash in EO1, and they're still trash here. I mean take it if you want, but this is like the last thing you should be investing in if you even pick it up at all. It's harder to make arguments for taking regular attack boosts as the series goes on, because the gulf between regular attacks and damage skills just gets bigger and bigger. Not helped by imbues no longer boosting damage from 2 onwards, which was a huge nerf to regular attacks.

Cleaver
Prerequisites: Swords Lv1.
A single target Sword attack. Sword skill with Cut damage, uses the Arms.


Boy oh boy that's a lot of random numbers, huh. You can see EO2 skills in action here, it starts off pretty bad, then shoots up in all aspects past level 5 until it becomes pretty good. Except all attacking skills do this so it makes this pretty mediocre. Every aspect changes at each level specifically so I have more work to do and for no other reason, like skills look completely different from 1 to max level that it's such a hassle to jump through 9 hoops in order to make something good.

Anyway, enough grouching, it's Cleaver, it's as exciting as it was last game, both Tornado and Allslash do more overall damage than it, but it's one saving grace is that it does the most damage to a single enemy out of all the sword skills, if you don't invest in any axe skills. That's its one saving grace, and it's not a great one, but that's one more than it had in the last game!

This is technically the "best damage skill" in the Swords branch by virtue of dealing the most amount of damage out of all of them, but it's really not worth investing in this one at all. Why? Oh just take a look at the next skill.

Tornado
Prerequisites: Swords Lv3.
A single target Sword attack with splash damage. Sword skill with Cut damage, uses the Arms.


Oh hey it's Cleaver but more overall damage. Sure, okay, against a single target Cleaver does slightly more damage, but Landys are pretty ineffective against single targets anyway, so what does it matter. Unlike the last game, it's not a worse version of Allslash but it depends on how lucky you are. This time these skills are in contention and the difference is mostly minimal.

For 5% less damage you get a ton more crowd control. Nobody bothers with Cleaver because that 5% less damage will really not make or break anything, and it's just far better for dealing with randoms, and Tornado is generally agreed to be the best skill in the Landsknecht's aresenal. "What about Allslash?" you EO1 vets may ask. Oh ha ha ha haaaaaa... *sobs*

Allslash
Prerequisites: Swords Lv5.
A multi target Sword attack to 2-4 enemies, cannot hit the same enemy twice. Sword skill with Cut damage, uses the Arms.


How the mighty have fallen. This was THE skill to beeline in 1, it did have a bit of investment to reach as well, but since it's much easier to get to in this game... that means it's much, much worse. No matter the level it'll always do 2-4 hits, whereas last game it became 3-4 at the last level. It's also 40% weaker, so with the overall lower power level, this skill struggles to sweep through enemies. Because the chance to roll 2 hits is so likely, if you want to have a decent chance of at least doing SOME damage to a third enemy, Tornado is your best bet, but when this skill hits 4 times, it really helps the rest of the party clean up. It's still... usable, but gently caress me, going over this skill is so goddamn depressing.

Holy poo poo this skill got gutted. And gutted to uselessness really. This is pretty much a trap skill now, as Tornado is just far better for a Landsknecht to use. Just look at that atrocious TP cost! You'll be running your Landsknecht dry in randoms by spamming this! To further illustrate how bad this is, a level 10 Allslash will hit 2.67 enemies on average. Yeah. And the average damage dished out is equal to 400.5%. When Tornado can consistently dish out 415% damage in total if there are at least 3 enemies on the field. Absolutely not worth it, and as much as it pains me to say it, you should completely ignore this skill.

Hypercut
Prerequisites: Swords Lv5, AGI Up Lv1.
A single target Sword attack. Sword skill with Cut damage, uses the Arms.


W-Woah, so fast! That's its only interesting aspect, it's a weaker but faster Cleaver against a single target for less investment. Like wow, whatever. If you only go one path, then Landys have SP to spare, so it's really not a big deal. But if you are spending SP on axes then, uh, why are you getting this skill as well to save on Cleaver, when axes are better than this skill? Like yeah it's fast, and that's something a few skills try to differentiate themselves, but EO isn't really a series about going before the enemy, so they're usually pretty pointless.

Landsknechts already have a huge speed boost anyways when using Swords, so this skill is kind of redundant really. I guess if you're that desperate to snipe a particular enemy in a random encounter? Not worth a pickup to be honest.

Riskcut
Prerequisites: Swords Lv7.
A single target Sword attack that increases in damage the lower the user's HP. Sword skill with Cut damage, uses the Arms.


Here's another skill archetype, ones that do a cascading amount of damage depending on the user's HP. It's relatively easy to set up with pain floors, but there's only one skill like this that's at all useful BECAUSE it doesn't use this godawful scaling. Like wow, if you have your Landy at 1HP they do less damage than Hypercut. This is the issue with some Lv5 skills, they scale similarly to a L10 skill, but just... stop halfway and are worse for it. Sometimes they scale properly, but when they dont... WHAT IS THE loving POINT???

Welcome to DS era Etrian Odyssey. Where you will constantly be baffled at how any of this garbage went through. This skill is straight up worse than Hypercut in every way. A conditional damage skill at its maximum potential is somehow worse than a loving basic damage skill. Great skill design there! As insult to injury, it's SP efficiency is even worse than Hypercut's, as you need to spend 1 more SP than you would in Hypercut's prerequisites to unlock this skill!

Deathaxe
Prerequisites: Axes Lv1.
A single target Axe attack. Axe skill with Bash damage, uses the Arms.


After all the riveting swords skills, here are the riveting axe skills. Compared to Crush, the go to axe skill in the last game, Deathaxe has comparable power but due to lower Landy stats and no real weapon mastery, it does less damage in comparison. It's fine in single target conditions, but considering it does barely more damage than a max level Cleaver, at the cost of making you slower and less accurate, is it worth the tradeoff? Well there's another axe skill that's stronger, even if it has its own downsides, so up to you.

I guess this is one of the better axe skills? The ones with additional effects aren't exactly worth using, so this is probably one of the better ones if you don't choose to go with Brawn.

Silencer
Prerequisites: Axes Lv3.
A single target Axe attack that has a chance to inflict Head Bind. Axe skill with Bash damage, uses the Arms.


Here's some "utility" for your Landy, a skill weaker and slower than Cleaver but can inflict Head Bind. Hey, those are useful, but inflicting ailments and binds is now influenced by your LUC compared to enemy LUC, only slightly mind you, base rate is still very important. Since Landys have below average LUC, they don't help this skill much and it's better to rely on someone else to inflict binds, there's a bit of choice in this game at least. Now if you do miss your first bind, you becomes more likely to land your second and on attempt, so it's more likely than you think, but also seems like a waste of a Landy's time unless you're going for Ecstacy strats or whatever.

Binds are also not as easy to land in this game on the big fights due to lower bind susceptibility multipliers in 2 compared to EO1. I don't think it's worth it unless you are that desperate to make use of a Dark Hunter's Ecstasy skill.

Brawn
Prerequisites: Axes Lv5, STR Up Lv1.
A single target Axe attack. Axe skill with Bash damage, uses the Arms.


Alright, here's a Lv5 skill that scales properly! Oh, it makes you go last in most cases, that's not great! Yeah this has the strength behind it to make Landys do some pretty alright damage, they just have to wait for everyone else to deal damage first, so you finish off the last of the enemy's HP, wasting the higher power of this skill. Up against bosses, yeah it's great, though going dead last is usually a bad idea due to stuns and ailments and the like, or dying before you can get it off. It's pretty risky, but maybe that's what can make this class even slightly interesting.

Pretty much the strongest Axe skill. You'll have to pick between this and Deathaxe, depending on which downsides you want to deal with, lower damage or even lower speed. A Survivalist with 1st Turn can easily deal with the speed penalty this skill has but uhhh, that means you're using both a Survivalist and Landsknecht on the same team, which is a horrific idea in this game. The reason being that both of those classes suck rear end.

Lifeaxe
Prerequisites: Axes Lv5.
A single target Axe attack. Decreases in damage the lower the user's HP. Axe skill with Bash damage, uses the Arms.


So this is a skill that gets worse the lower your health is... for some reason. On a class that is pretty good at taking hits, on a weapon that makes you slower and more likely to take damage before you attack, that when it fulfills the requirements is the weakest axe skill. ????????????? gently caress off. Just gently caress off.

This is literally worse than every single Axe skill, why would you take this garbage?

Stunner
Prerequisites: Axes Lv7.
A single target Axe attack that attempts to inflict Stun. Axe skill with Bash damage, uses the Arms.


Moving on from... that, we have another questionable skill. Again, axes slow your Landy down and they have above average AGI, so they're not likely to go before the opponent, especially since it doesn't have a great speed modifier either. It has a really good infliction rate and no enemy is immune to Stun, but there are far, far better ways of doing this than using a slow, weird skill. And that was all the axe skills! Boy... they're really not good still, mainly because most of them are from the last game, where they also weren't good! Funny that.

Really not worth it. Axes come with a big enough speed penalty that it's unlikely to see the Stun go off a lot of the time due to the Landsknecht being outright slower than their target. Yeah, they made this skill even worse than it was in EO1 due to mechanics changes. Funny how those can screw certain skills over.

Blazer/Freezer/Shocker
Prerequisites: Swords Lv5, Axes Lv5.
A single target Fire/Ice/Volt attack on an enemy that was just dealt that respective damage. Sword/Axe skill, uses the Arms.


Now for some real interesting skills. Chasers finally get off the ground in this game compared to whatever they were trying to accomplish last game. At max level, you can dish out a lot of damage, especially if an enemy is weak to that element. HOWEVER, while this is really nice utility, it's quite the investment, so it better be good! Also because there's no multihit elemental attacks, you're limited to 4 chases on a single target if you're using an all element team, which is a poor idea due to how fragile they can be, or 9 chases from party wide attacks against multiple enemies, which, hey, does more damage than Allslash at least! It's something I'll try since our Landy will be sword locked, but it'll take quite a bit of time and quite the team composition for slightly higher damage from a mediocre class. Not recommended, but can work.

Also yes, at the first 2 levels, there's a very small chance your Landy won't even follow up the attack! Great!!!

Chasers went from being conditional damage attacks in 1, to what we know Chasers in the series today. Smack a target with an element, and they'll be hit with a follow up of that same element. And this time, multiple follow ups can happen as long as there are multiple triggering attacks. Though you aren't guaranteed to get multiple follow ups, and the chances of getting more follow ups go down the more successful follow ups you have.

If you're looking for a reason to take a Landsknecht, this is pretty much the main selling point. Chasers can output a ton of damage... which unfortunately requires lining up the party with multiple Alchemists, Ronin, and Gunners. Outside of those specific parties, Chasers aren't worth it, and by extension, Landsknechts altogether.

War Cry
Prerequisites: STR Up Lv1.
Increases the user's ATK and decreases the user's DEF for 5 turns. Buff skill, uses the Head.


Okay, we've ditched Hell Cry and focused on the good buff. Due to how tanky Landys are, War Cry is very helpful in making their damage even remotely useful... is what I would say in EO1 where it was amazing! In this game it's complete trash due to how much it ruins your DEF, halving it compared to last game where your DEF reduction actually got better as you invested in it. It has a great boost to STR, so if you're able to make use of it before you die, great! It's better to just use a Bravant or even a Troubadour's Bravery or War Magus's Warmight. Because there's a few ways to get around the awful DEF drop, I find there's really no need to use War Cry, but then I also find no need to use Landsknechts, so what do I know?

Oof. You pretty much need this skill to deal with the Landsknecht's middling damage, but taking 50% more damage really puts a dent in the Landsknecht's defenses. They also changed how damage buffs work in 2. Instead of affecting their attacking stat directly, they now increase the final damage dealt by a certain amount, and that would be the standard that would be followed for the rest of the series. As for how much this increases the Landsknecht's overall damage by since this is self cast only, it increases it by -12%/-7.2%/2.4%/16.8%/36%. Yeah, the first two levels actually decrease the overall damage the Landsknecht can do. And for self-damage buffs, it's better to let the buff wear off entirely before reapplying it, otherwise you'll decrease your overall damage output further if you try to reapply it on the last turn.

Unbound
Prerequisites: None
Removes binds from a single target. Heal skill, uses the Head.


Oh poo poo, Arm Heal got an upgrade! You could nearly call this a skill now. It does have some utility, having other ways to remove binds can be useful depending if your healer is also bound, but there's a few obvious issues. You can't use this skill if you're head bound, surprise, surprise, and if your healer has a head bind, so will your Landy, most likely, due to their lower LUC. Also your Landy could just attack instead while someone else in support heals binds with skills or Theriaca As. It's a much better skill than before, but it's still bad.

If you do take this skill, it's really not worth leveling beyond 3, as being fully bound isn't exactly common in this game, and dispelling 2 binds at once is more than enough in a lot of cases. Could be a handy backup in case you're out Therica As I suppose.

All Out
A multi target Sword/Axe attack, cannot hit the same enemy twice. Sword/Axe Force Skill with Cut damage, uses the Arms.


Last up is the Force Skill, they're very powerful, but because they take a while to charge, you usually don't see them during a regular outing, unlike Boost. They're also ridiculously powerful and you can easily cheese bosses by grinding Boost beforehand and absolutely humiliating them with the right ones. We won't be doing that. Much. But how does the Landy's hold up?

Well, it's fast and does a lot of damage. And that's it. It's as interesting as the Landy itself, it's a perfectly fine class, but it's outclassed by a lot of different classes and doesn't do anything very, uh, classy. It got nerfed while others got buffed, the class disparity in this game is one of its major issues. And that's a real shame cause this class was pretty drat good, but now it's decidedly... average. You don't want to be average in this game.

All Out is okay. Nothing particularly remarkable, but it is their strongest damage skill, and you might as well use it whenever it's up.

As for the Landsknecht themselves, as you can see, they went from being a pretty good class in EO1 to near the bottom of the barrel in EO2. While some classes fared a lot better than in 1, Landsknecht wasn't one of them and I'm sad to say that this isn't even the worst of it.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Edda's Arrival



Phwaaaah! We finally made it, High Lagaard!!!

Huff, huff, oh thank god, if this tree was gonna be the same size on the horizon for the fourth day in a row I was gonna murder everyone.

Same...

Stiff upper lip everyone~ for it is the day~ we meet our guild~ or rest and wait~

Not... gonna... make it...

Don't worry babe, I got you. Good thing you're still so light, eh?

I am going to sleep for forty days and forty nights.



Now where should we go?~ Hmm?~ A squirrel~

Oh hey, you guys made it. Not that I was waiting for you lot or anything. It was sis that was worried. Yeah. Just her.

Of course you're here first...

GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! I knew Cheese wouldn't let me down! Where have you been?! I've been so worried about you idiots!!!

Still not a huggy person, erk, so crushing!

What were you so worried about. ...how long have you guys been here?

Wow you lot finally made it, I knew you'd be along soon enough, gahahaha!

Certainly took your sweet time, nice to see everyone in one piece.

While being late is honourable, I will make an exception this time because I really missed you!

No, seriously, you were acting like we died! When did you lot get here???

Uh... well... it was kinda...

Two months. TWO MONTHS! How could you take so long? We thought you HAD died!

...WHAT??? I thought I was keeping track of the time pretty well...

We did get a little sidetracked along the way, drat Armoroad. You guys came straight here?

Liana said no distractions... not even the pretty coastal place.

And you see the results.

Well it was definitely worth it~ Aah the stories we could weave of our adventures, they could fill a whole book~ One time we found ourselves in a place called Bollywood-

Riveting. Get unpacked you lot, we've got a labyrinth to explore.

Oh what?! We just got here, we've been walking all day!

Then we'll start tomorrow! There's no better time to start then as soon as possible!

You must be registered as soon as possible too, we need your half to complete our guild and get the paperwork sorted! That I do not need to read!

Ugh, fine. Paperwork does sound fun...



Ah, is it you? Then you must be here to explore the Labyrinth, I assume. Guild Edda... yes, the legendary explorers who saved the town of Etria.

My revisionist history travelled faster than I thought~

Tell me about it.

Well, you're welcome to use the name you're already know under... I'm sure many explorers here would be eager to sign up with your guild. Or, you could change the name and go incognito. It makes no difference to me. Either way, explorer, I must record the formation of your guild on this 1st of Emperor.



It's perfect.

The gently caress's a Nidhogg?

Nothing much, what's the Nidhogg with you? Hehehe... OW!

Very funny, dear, we'll stick with our original name and get unpacked. Come along, we can rest and plan from there.

Karin didn't even make it that far.

Zzzzzzzzzz...

Oh yes... I have something for you, since you led Guild Edda in those days. It's in honor of all that Edda accomplished. You're worth of it. I expect that you'll achieve the same level of renown here in High Lagaard.



Ah dammit tossing this into the ravine didn't work, I can't get rid of this crap ever since it touched the pearl! Maybe if someone else picked it up... hup!

I say it is time for brunch! Honourably!

Very well~ So long as it's not made from Crabapples, it's all we could find the last few days~

Prepare for a surprise.

Hmm? Someone left this nice little crown here. It feels cursed in some way, like it could talk. But that would be preposterous... though I would not mind such a thing. And what was that group going on about? Nidhogg? Interesting...



Huh? You're from Edda? You saved the town of Etria? Hmmm... ohhh, yes, of course! Even I've heard of you! But I don't know much beyond your name... well, I'm sure you're no different than my other guests! Bahahaha! Lagaard has lots of inns, but my place is the best! You'll fit right in. Try to get along with the other guilds!

Ah, we've made it. I'm... glad...

Woah there. Huh, drat, you really are light. I'll be fine to carry everything upstairs.

Mmmmmmmmmmm... eat shield...

Thanks, chum, I'm fine to explore the town, I'm used to long hikes. Besides, wanna become as familiar with this place as Etria.

Man it's weird seeing those two be so friendly to each other.

I myself will sit the gently caress down and enjoy some music~ It's been about three hours and I'm getting withdrawal~

Alright you lot, get settled! We're heading into the labyrinth tomorrow!



Know something interesting? It seems Edda, the ones who saved Etrian, are here... wait... that was you!? Wow... haha, my apologies! You're a hot topic of conversation around Lagaard lately. This is Lagaard Hospital, where most explorers end up sooner or later. In addition to treating wounds, we provide medicine and other supplies to Sitoth Trading. If you should be injured in your journey, don't hesitate to see us.

Uh, right, I was just asking where the bar was, I imagine that's where everyone else has gone. Getting a new sword sounds like a nice idea though, now where would it be. Oh there it is, let's- ah, sorry! Oh, she just kept walking...

why doesn't that guy just look where he's going...



Huh...? Oh! You must be... you're from Edda, right? Did you change your name? Well, I'm still a big fan! Oh, let me explain how this store works. Well... first of all, my father owns the shop. Him and his staff make equipment in the back, and I sell it to you explorers. I'm just an assistant, but I'm always here! Don't forget!

Got any axes? ...what do you mean I'm the first person to ask that?! Axes are great! Hmm? Hello squirrel.

Ugh, there you are, sidetracked as usual, I see. Come on, the bar is this way.

Alright fine, I'll come back later, let's get- GAHHHHH!!!

Hmm?

Woah, you surprised me! Aren't you a cutie.

Hehe...

Stop fraternising with the weird amount of animals this place has. A lot of them don't like squirrels for some reason.



What've yeh decided to call yerselves here? Not that I really care, but... yeh should go see the Minister at the Duke's Palace first. He'll lay out the rules for yeh. No back-talk! Just do as I say!

I'm only getting a drink, I'll go to the fancy place later. May I borrow this chair?

Don't touch me.

Eyyyyyyyyyy, Lavvyyyyyy, ya made it!!!

This place is full of weirdos, but I'm parched.

I'll get you something, but Liana said be a dear and accept the mission at the Palace. She even said pretty please.

... ... fiiiiiiiine. You know, even my legs get tired too.

No they don't you weird, endless machine.

Those guys are pretty loud, heh, typical tourists. Though they look like they're on the start of a grand adventure.



I believe I recognize you... you were once known as Edda, weren't you? Yes... you carry a different aura than other explorers. You were in Etria, yes? Oh, but I have not introduced myself. I am Minister Dubois, the Duke's faithful servant. My duties range from managing the citizens to overseeing exploration of the Labyrinth. Before you begin exploring, you must become an official citizen of Lagaard. You must pass a test of our own devising in order to register as a citizen.

Uhuh... yeah... hmm, really... yes, yes, I'll take the mission, get me outta here!

Hmph, there's a guy with no appreciation for this place. Ahh, soon I'll start my encyclopedia here... what heaven. Hmm?

Alright, alright, ye blackmailin' bastards I'll join a guild! And ye're not getting any more info outta me!



Ugh, that took forever, but at least I'm done. Hmm, where the hell am I? Excuse me? Where's the pub from here?

Hmm? A what?

A pub! The place of drinks!

Ah yes, quite a fascinating place, Stickleback, see you might think it was based off a hedgehog, but actually the original owner just had a very course and hairy back.

Oh, no kidding? No, wait, where is it? Give me directions!

Well, if you want to find it, all you need to be is lost. Farewell.

The hell did he mean by- oh wait it was right behind me. He could've just told me that...

Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug!

You remember that I'm just a sword? I don't get drunk anymore. Ah, you're back, here's your pint.

Ahhhh, finally, that was a hell of a day. I met some right weirdos you know, wonder if I'll see them again. No matter, cheers!

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


quote:

Could I speak with you for a moment? It seems you've traversed every last corner of the Yggdrasil Labyrinth. You've encountered every beast there, and retrieved every one of Yggdrasil's treasure. Your unrivalled accomplishments have helped my work in many ways. Alas... with nothing left to discover, I fear no explorers will flock to Etria any longer.

quote:

Everyone in Lagaard: You're the guild that saved the town of Etria!

This was super jarring to several players who played a password game because it's such a whiplash and not true considering what happened in EO1. Given that your guild committed genocide and ruined Etria's economy and livelyhood in the first game. Then again considering those crimes, historical revisionism wouldn't be out of the ordinary for them I suppose.

Also what the gently caress is with Riskcut and Lifeaxe? Like those 2 skills are literally worse than most skills in the respective branches. Also oh god EO2 Landsknecht. They used to be so good.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


Jank Odyssey: AI Oddities

Nothing to see here... yet. consider this a megapost of the numerous enemy AI oddities found in this game so Cross doesn't have to link to every single individual writeup I will be posting after the relevant updates in the future, as I won't be posting all the numerous fuckups in EO2's enemy AI all at once.

Kikas
Oct 30, 2012

EAT THE FISH!
EAT THE BERRIES!
TO THE CAVE!
HIBERNATE


AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor



Oh hey, another one of these! I missed the end of the last LP, what's this "genocide" you speak of?

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



I will never understand how games like this keep making janked up formulas that result in a "do more damage" button actively making you do less damage.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


Kikas posted:

Oh hey, another one of these! I missed the end of the last LP, what's this "genocide" you speak of?

Here is the start of the set of the relevant updates. It all took place in Stratum 4.

The extremely short version is that there's a race of people living in the Labyrinth that refuse to let you pass. You are then given a mission to commit genocide on them in the name of Etria's tourism industry. There's no way around this by the way, and you succeed in the end.

And then if you decide to still keep playing the game past that point, your guild discovers everything that was there to discover in the Labyrinth, making no one want to explore it anymore because there's nothing new there, so Etria's economy goes kaput because it was entirely dependent on no one ever actually finishing exploring the Labyrinth and absolutely nothing else. What do you mean that makes no sense, quiet down, you're supposed to feel bad.

Oh and your guild may or may not have hosed over the entire world in the process of destroying a device that was supposed to help deal with extreme pollution in the world. This was later disproven by the fact that there are now 12 games in the series, but at the time EO1 didn't exactly end on the happiest of notes.

marshmallow creep posted:

I will never understand how games like this keep making janked up formulas that result in a "do more damage" button actively making you do less damage.

I am debating on whether to make another Jank Odyssey update already to explain this poo poo, but I don't even fully understand the code myself. Rest assured it's um. One hell of a way to code skills... Actually on second thought probably should roll that into a skill jank update because ohhhhh boy.

Araxxor fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 19, 2021

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

Araxxor posted:


Oh and your guild may or may not have hosed over the entire world in the process of destroying a device that was supposed to help deal with extreme pollution in the world. This was later disproven by the fact that there are now 12 games in the series, but at the time EO1 didn't exactly end on the happiest of notes.


Wait a minute, 12 games?!

EO1-5
EO Nexus

Six games. I now they redid EO1 and EO2 as some sort of more conventional JRPGs with more story to slow down your monster genocides, but that's still just 8.

I only get to 12 when I assume they also did remakes of EO3-5 plus Nexus, the very last game meant as homage to the entire series. But surely this can't be? What are all those missing games?

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


I think it's 12 if you count the Etrian Mystery Dungeon 1 & 2 (Shiren the Wanderer roguelikes) and Persona Q1 and Q2? (Persona spinoffs that use EO mechanics).

Edit: Also the Untold games are full blown remakes with Classic modes that work like the original but with the remaked everything and an Story mode with a fixed party which are... suspect to say the least

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010




Libluini posted:

Wait a minute, 12 games?!

EO1-5
EO Nexus

Six games. I now they redid EO1 and EO2 as some sort of more conventional JRPGs with more story to slow down your monster genocides, but that's still just 8.

I only get to 12 when I assume they also did remakes of EO3-5 plus Nexus, the very last game meant as homage to the entire series. But surely this can't be? What are all those missing games?

There's Etrian Mystery Dungeon 1 and 2, but that only makes 10 games. Maybe there's 2 mobile games I don't know about?

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

I didn't know about the Mystery Dungeon games, so I guess that makes 10. (And if you count those two Persona Q games with EO-like gameplay, wouldn't you now also need to count the two Strange Journey SMT games with EO-like gameplay? That would be 14 games, then. )

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


Libluini posted:

I didn't know about the Mystery Dungeon games, so I guess that makes 10. (And if you count those two Persona Q games with EO-like gameplay, wouldn't you now also need to count the two Strange Journey SMT games with EO-like gameplay? That would be 14 games, then. )

SMT Strange Journey isn't really an EO-like. The map is automated with no drawing option and the gameplay is pure SMT.

The Persona Q games meanwhile literally reuse code from EOIV (at least Q1) and have all the EO trappings such as a hub with shops and quests, dunegons that work just like EO, mapping like EO, even in Persona games F.O.E.! and battle system. The only difference is you use fixed Persona characters who gain skills the Persona way by levelling up and you can fuse Personas to use as subclass equivalents. So basically an EO game with Persona bells and whistles.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Yeah I'll count the PQs, even if I don't want to, because it means I'll need to LP them to cross every game off the list.

Just kidding! Haha, unless...?

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


WrightOfWay posted:

There's Etrian Mystery Dungeon 1 and 2, but that only makes 10 games. Maybe there's 2 mobile games I don't know about?

Correct! There were 2 cell phone games that basically had their existences buried. Not even the Japanese side of the community really talks about them. One was a flip phone game that came out after EO1 with 7 strata and 35 floors, apparently sharing a lot of EO1’s mechanics but with entirely new characters and some bizarre new enemies. Not really sure about the other one, but it came out after EO4. Info has been tried to have been dug up about them with little avail so far, but there have been a few leads about the former we found.

We managed to dig up its soundtrack at the very least which Yuzo Koshiro confirmed on his Youtube channel that he had nothing to do with, so it sounds rather different from your standard EO game.

Someone just sort of stumbled upon screenshots of this thing one day, and one thing led to another and our minds were basically blown over the existence of a secret EO game when we did more digging.

EDIT: The 2nd game was a gacha game released for Android and iOS, known as Etrian Odyssey S: Eternal Conquerors. It wasn't a dungeon crawler, just some card based games where you throw cards based on PCs, NPCs, and monsters at enemies until they die. The game and its servers went defunct pretty fast and the Japanese side of the EO community basically shuns the game cause there wasn't much there to it.

Araxxor fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Mar 19, 2021

NyoroEevee
May 21, 2020


Hey, Crosspeice. I just noticed that the thread title has either a typo or a pun in Oddysey.

Either way, this ride is going to be wild!

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Part 3: The Second And... Last?

Beautiful and Sublime Lands



Alright, I'll have a look at this, thank you. Hmm... it's fine enough, sure you couldn't add some colour to it?

No.



I hereby name you explorers of the Yggdrasil Labyrinth, and citizens of High Lagaard. As I mentioned earlier, you have but one goal. Climb the Yggdrasil Labyrinth and discover the lands said to lie in the skies above. I expect great thing from you from here on out, members of Nidhogg. Ah, I nearly forgot. Take this token of the Duke's esteem, and keep up the good work.



Well, it seems that you've begun your exploration of the Labyrinth in earnest. We support explorers in whatever ways we can. You are free to keep whatever you find there, or sell it to Sitoth Trading. That should do for your initial orientation... do you have any questions?

Yes, where is the manshun you are having for-

Ah, wait, first... about those items and monsters you encounter in the Labyrinth... we ask that you file reports on them here. We have lived in Yggdrasil's shadow for some time, but there is much we don't know. Any scrap of information you can bring back may be of use. The official guard corps are posted, of course, but they are not tasked with exploration. What we need is data on the Labyrinth's monsters, the items they drop, and your equipment. We will save these records, which should help the guard corps with their task. Adding to our store of knowledge about the Labyrinth is every explorer's duty. Good luck.



That old geezer doesn't /2 talk, eh?

If he gives us money, he can talk as much as he wants.

You get used to it, I've created a small page on what you've described. Look good to you?

Woah that drawing is an exact match, that's some talent!



So for whatever reason they decided that to 100% this game you should unlock all the gear as well. As you've already seen from the unlocks, that's not an easy, or interesting task, you can imagine how bad it'll get later. There's never much reason to 100% any EO game, we only do it because... well, I dunno actually. Why DO we do it? And why am I gonna do it for this LP? Ah gently caress!!!

New to this game is the Gear Registry which... Yeah. Thought unlocking all item drops was a pain? Now you have to unlock all equipment as well! Seeing all monsters and item drops is much less of a hassle in comparison as if you're missing an item drop, you just hunt down the monster. And if you're missing a monster entry, the monsters are mostly grouped by Stratum, so it's feasible to find a place to search. Gear on the other hand doesn't give nearly as many hints on top of being a huge grind, which means this part is easily the biggest roadblock in 100%ing EO2. Thankfully this nonsense did not last past this game, as it was dropped instantly in EO3, and wasn't even a requirement in the game's remake.

100%ing EO games isn't usually too much of a hassle. It's really just making sure you complete the post-game on top of seeing everything. There are a few bottlenecks here and there but it's not usually too much more demanding than the amount of effort it takes to kill the post-game superboss. Unless you're playing a DS era title in which case the bottlenecks are loving massive, like getting the drops to make the Shinryuu Sword in 1, the loving Gear Registry in 2, and killing 3's post-game superboss! (Yes that last one deserved its own mention, just trust me on that one.)

Extremely glad that the Gear Registry was not brought back in EO2U for authenticity reasons, even though it'd be a much easier ask in that game.



Truthfully, I'm not sure how I feel about explorers spending so much time in the Labyrinth. Injuries are frequent, and it's our job to patch them up. It would be best if you could avoid getting hurt at all.

Ah, that's much better, figured you'd be working here as soon as you could.

obviously, gotta clean up any mess you lot get into...



It's only 100en per item! We've got space, so use it as much as you want!

You can store up to 99 items, however consumables don't stack and each individual item eats up a slot. The payment happens when you store an item, not when you take it back, so make sure you have some money on hand if you really need that bag space.



Sorry, but I have to check.



Where did you even put it?

I dunno, I grabbed it without really thinking when you were gonna kick it out of the duke's hand!

Oh... sorry, but I don't think this is the permission I'm looking for. Once you have permission, I can sell you some special items. They're really helpful! So get permission, then come back and show me, okay? A-Are you sure you don't have it...? Maybe it's buried in all the stuff you're carrying? I mean, I was sure you had finished the training mission, so I thought... sorry! I really, really wish I could sell you this, so I have to nag you about it. Are you absolutely sure you don't have permission?

It was at the bottom, under a... swimsuit?

Hey, you never know!

Swimsuits would've been very helpful in the hot springs quest in EO2U.

Don't ask.



Like this Warp Wire. It lets you come back to town from the Labyrinth at any time. When you plan to enter the Labyrinth, you should always make sure you have one.



Falcatta, requires 1 Rat Needle - ATK+20 - One-handed sword whose weight is in its tip.
Green Leaf, requires 2 Rat Needles, 1 Husk Shard - DEF+9, AGI+1, sells for 110en - Clothing covered in hard shells.

Definitely don't leave for the labyrinth without two! Yes you heard me, last game was mean, but it never took your Warp Wires from you. This game isn't so nice! Also hey, we can see what we else we need for an item when we've met one of the prerequisites.

Other games you can get away with only having one if you make sure not to be forgetful.

Actually, no, he means "three."

The Wind Doesn't Draw Heroes



Of course most of the guild would be here. Better order some expensive wine for our first successful exploration.

Better tell us all about it, yeah? ...any danger behind doors?

Now that you mentioning it... I will also take some fancy wine, Earl Grey, right?

That's tae ya daft oval office!

And it was nice and quiet a moment ago...

Before you get too comfortable, there is a noticeboard here of people's problems, we best get to solving them!



I get a lot of requests here, and I put them all up on that bulletin board over there. Usually it's stuff like, "Pick this up" or "Defeat that." Pretty drat lazy bunch, if yeh ask me... but the reward is usually well worth the trouble. So it's a great way to pick up a little something here and there. Got it?

You can take Quests here in the bar, which are optional jobs or requests. There are many types of Quests, each with its own reward. Select "Accept quests" from the menu to see the details.

"Reward is well worth the trouble." Yeah I beg to disagree. On the other hand, like Rea said, you get to interact with Cass a lot during these and he's the best part of EO2 questing, so it's not all bad. He's definitely a lot more fun to interact with than Valerie from EO1.



It was my first taste of death... I would rather ignore it entirely.

Ahh... well, all I can say is, take it slow. If yeh die, it's curtains for yeh. The Labyrinth's huge, but it'll keep. Take it easy, and go at your own pace.



Ah some money as a reward... poor imbues.

Ah, yeh'll take the quest, then? Great, great, good to hear it. This one's from the restaurant down the way. The man there's in powerful need of Rock Water. It's bracing stuff, but yeh can only find it in the Labyrinth. Yeh don't have to go too far in, mind. Should be able to get some on the 1st floor. Just bring back some of that water and the job's done. G'luck!

...Is that water in the physical form of a rock, or water from a rock, or water on a rock, or...

(Don't worry, I'm doing a bit, I'm not that absent-minded. Just mostly.)



Are you organizing your guild wisely? Make sure you divide the party's duties evenly. You may also choose to form specialized team. A main team, one to gather items, and so on. That's all the advice I have for now. Never underestimate the Labyrinth.

We could definitely use a gathering party, but it is imperative we find the right candidate, so be on the lookout.

Alright, I'll find one in no time at all, just you watch! But it's not like one's gonna walk right past.

Ah, excuse me, I need to gather some breakfast.

Hmm... that guy... have I seen him before...? Well back to looking for a gatherer! Can you gather items for us?

Sigh...

Byeah.

Did you sign up a good crew?

Woodland Ruins



There's a lot more dialogue in this game compared to before, so we're finally getting into the second exploration.

Possibly one of the biggest improvements to the series to add more life to the game. Town dialogue now updates after every floor instead of just after you finish a Stratum. Adds way more life to the NPCs and town you regularly interact with, and unlike in 1 everyone has something new to say instead of the guildmaster being doomed to talk about making a good crew over and over.

The games just get more and more dialogue-heavy as they go on. Except EO5, that walked it back a noticeable amount.



Signs are meant to be kicked!

At least let us read it first!

A warning is written on it to explorers who challenge the Labyrinth: "Do not disturb the monster in the hall! Your curiosity will be your undoing!" It seems one of your predecessors wrote this warning... you cannot grasp its meaning, but you resolve to keep it in mind as you press onward.

You've been in the labyrinth before, any idea what fearsome creature this could be?

Well when you're by yourself, anything is fearsome, so I'll tell you if I see it, cause I'll kick its rear end this time!!!



I am the viewing of something!

Even for me it takes a moment to figure out what you are saying...

You crane your neck to see a hole in the tree, just above your reach. It's difficult to tell, but it seems that a gleaming jewel is inside the hole... a jewel like that would make a worthy souvenir of this trip.



I can gallop up there in just a- oh you're already halfway up.

Mine, mine, mine, mine!

Eleanore reaches into the hole and gropes around... it seems that a hard, jewel-like stone is inside the hole. Eleanore firmly grasps the stone and pulls it from the tree.



Oh I thought it was a shiny new book. You can have it.

Mmm, my pleasure!

If you do this event at night you'll be placed into an encounter with 3 Crawlers, which is not a battle you want to get into when you're starting out!

What the- the only mention of this I've found is in your LP seven years ago, how the hell do you remember this poo poo???



Woodmai are so nice to see because they don't kick our rear end.



Ahah, there it is! Time for a rematch, bitch!!!

It barely reaches my knee, how did this thing nearly kill you?


Mole

HP: 51
STR: 8
VIT: 8
TEC: 5
AGI: 8
LUC: 7
Level: 3
Exp: 123

Skills
Claws: Uses the Arms. Deals 120% Cut damage to a single target. Has a 95% accuracy modifier and a 100% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100%
150% 100% 100%

Disable Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Drops
Earth Nail: 40% chance, sells for 8en.
1 required for Kalinga - Axe, ATK+21 - sells for 160en
5 required for Spike - Axe, ATK+33, +0 speed - sells for 220en

Soft Fur: 45% chance, sells for 6en.
1 required for Hide Gage - Gloves, DEF+4, VIT+1 - sells for 80en
2 required for Jerkin - Light Armor, DEF+10 - sells for 120en
3 required for Hard Vest - Clothing, DEF+11 - sells for 180en

Conditional: None

These were the first monsters we encountered last game, but here they're not as scary since you can't fight as many of them initially. They definitely hurt, but if we focus on them we can take them out no issue. They only use Claws when on low health, it's not really worth mentioning the enemy's AI for the most part, it's very basic, like their one skill they often have.

They can use it at high health, but only 10% of the time. Moles are basically slightly stronger trash mobs, but not as scary in EO1 since they don't really group up until later. The level mechanic is gone so that's not beefing them up either.

Oh yeah, enemy AI got redone in this game, so a lot of the issues that plagued them in 1 are gone, though some oddities did slip through.

The most notable thing about monster AI in this game is that Atlus switched off monsters basically being state machines using data tables (seriously wtf, that only works for games with very simple AI, like Doom, it doesn't work in an RPG), and instead rewrote the AI system to use their proprietary FLOW scripting system, which became the standard for both monster AI and, starting with EO3, event scripting in the series. It eliminates most of the really serious errors like "Primevil uses a non-existent skill."



Don't think, just kick!

Mmm, auto, I've missed thee.



The secret to healing classes is investing in the mastery skill to keep your healing cheap and more potent. Obviously not a huge issue for a class like War Magus, but I want to get Salve sooner, though I'll get Warmight before that.

Enjoy healing passives being more valuable than higher levels of the active skills while it lasts, it basically goes away with EO4.




It is the very surprising that this is the faster.

I didn't even know my body could move side to side like this. Let's never mention it again.

Eleanore could use the slightly higher DEF, but she's not using TP just yet, so Sonia can use Viper more. It doesn't actually inflict anything because I'm heading for Climax for the most part, but hey it does more damage than her regular attack!




GAHHHHHH gently caress!!! You think that can stop me, huh, I'll kick your rear end!

Literally all of your bones are broken, do not move!


Crawler

HP: 90
STR: 12
VIT: 10
TEC: 5
AGI: 8
LUC: 10
Level: 4
Exp: 152

Skills
Web: Uses the Head. Attempts to inflict Arm and Leg Bind on the entire party. Has a 25% base infliction chance and a 100% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100%
150% 100% 150%

Disable Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Drops
Small Nail: 70% chance, sells for 14en.
1 required for Nail Whip - Whip, ATK+19 - sells for 130en
1 required for Steel Pin - Headgear, DEF+5, TP+5 - sells for 90en
1 required for Green Boot - Footwear, DEF+6, AGI+2 - sells for 120en
1 required for Theriaca A - Medicine, LV5 Unbind, removes all binds from the target - sells for 100en

Conditional: None

If you're unlucky on your first venture, you could encounter this monster. It will loving obliterate you, and it is always the first thing you go after, even Venomflies. Thankfully if it can't kill Eleanore in one shot, then we're past the point of it killing anyone, and if it goes for Web you got lucky. With Alastor's quick healing we're not in much danger, but it'll get complicated when it shows up with other enemies.

Crawlers are basically the floor bullies of the first floor, and my my they're quite the toughie! Just look at those beefy stats in comparison to the previous 3 trash mobs! Definitely take them out first or they'll paste your party into the ground. The only saving grace is that they have a 25% chance of wasting their turns using Web instead of smacking your party. They also serve as a slightly harsh introduction to binds, though thankfully they can't really capitalize on your party being bound.

And if this enemy, or any other encounter is too tough for your party to currently handle? Well there's no shame in running. Feel free to use the escape command whenever your party is in trouble, or you think they're about to get into trouble. Making sure to live to fight another day is a skill that will help you survive a lot longer in the Labyrinth and helps avoid getting a paid vacation to the game over screen.

The binds are just salt on the wound, this thing has no business being this strong, especially given that it could theoretically be the first monster you encounter. At least Great Lynxes are saved for the later parts of B1F in EO3.






Hmm, don't have the ability to pick something off the ground, but I could use a small snack.

Hrrk, desire to eat grass... stronger than influence over him... noooooooooooo!

Funny dialogue inspired by this wonderful artwork by Huckebein on the EO LP Discord, the first artwork for any of my LPs and this is my nineteenth one! Ah that's kinda depressing.

1F A1 Take Point

Ambush Chance: 1%
Ambush Encounter:
100% Raflesia x1

Tiny Bloom. 70% chance. Sells for 25en.
1 required for Nectar - Medicine, revives the target to 10-16HP, TEC depending - sells for 500en
2 required for Theriaca A - Medicine, LV5 Unbind, removes all binds from the target - sells for 100en
3 required for Theriaca B - Medicine, LV8 Refresh, removes all ailments from the target - sells for 100en

Sour Fruit. 25% chance. Sells for 30en.
1 required for Ward Chime - Item, Lv2 Stalker, reduces danger values by 33% for 50 steps - sells for 200en
2 required for Guard Sole - Item, Lv2 Patrol, reduces damage tile damage by 40% for 50 steps - sells for 200en
3 required for Poison Gas - Item, Lv1 Poison, 15% base infliction chance, 20-30 damage - sells for 450en

Green Nut. 5% chance. Sells for 75en.
1 required for Blaze Oil - Item, Lv1 Blaze, imbues the target's regular attacks with Fire damage - sells for 250en, must be restocked
1 required for Freeze Oil - Item, Lv1 Frost, imbues the target's regular attacks with Ice damage - sells for 250en, must be restocked
1 required for Shock Oil - Item, Lv1 Shock, imbues the target's regular attacks with Volt damage - sells for 250en, must be restocked

Anyway, here's gathering spots, they've been nerfed a fair bit from last game, but they are easier to utilise at least. Due to the Survivalist's Stalker skill, they can easily reach any gathering spot in the game without any encounters and can farm a full pack with little issue. Though there's a few wrinkles to this now, the money you get from gathering has been reduced slightly, and most of the spots are pretty out of the way to stop you easily grinding materials. It's still worth it, but there's other money methods that are faster when you get the setup.

Also, this is the introduction of gathering ambushes, each time you gather there's a chance a nasty enemy, or gaggle of enemies will blindside and gently caress you up. You can get around this by training your gathering group so they aren't so fragile, something that's easier to do later on, or just admit to this eventuality and try to run away. It kinda sucks to have to reload from a save and gather again, but it's also not a big deal due to how quick it is to get back, just be luckier next time!

Sadly, gathering ambushes are here to stay. I'm not a fan of them, personally, especially in fixed-party games like the story modes of the Untolds and both Persona Q games. They unnecessarily punish you for taking advantage of a system the game puts there and demands that you use for important consumables. As mentioned before, they're even worse in EO games where you're stuck with non-gathering characters.

As for the first gathering point you can find in the game, hot drat this floor has good ones! These are items you want to get asap due to how incredibly useful they are. Well, Nectars are a little expensive this early, such is life without a Medic, and the oils are completely useless, rip imbues. Also have you wondered why the various ailment gas items aren't very useful in letting you net conditionals? They're based on level 1 Hexer skills, in a game with exponential scaling, without a later upgrade with a better infliction chance. NEVER use the Gas items, they are absolute dogshit.

Oof. Gathering was a great way to make money in EO1, and now it got hammered. It's still a viable way of doing so, but the primary moneymaking meta moved onto... something different for this game. You'll still need to gather from these to make unlocks, which is the most important part of them now. Definitely get some Tiny Blooms as Nectars and the Thericas are easily the most important consumables to get unlock. The importance of having death and disable dispels cannot be understated here. The rest aren't great. If you knew how god tier the imbues were in EO1... yeah that's sadly no longer the case in this game, the oils are not worth it outside of conditional drops.

Also the big nerf, ambushes. In EO1 you just had a chance to find nothing. That got replaced with a monster encounter which is flagged as a guaranteed blindside. Which is basically just Atlus doing a sledgehammer nerf while giving you the middle finger. It's also a huge nerf to gathering on your normal team, as well, if your gathering team gets ambushed you can just reset. An annoyance, but not a big deal. But if you took gathering skills on your main team and got ambushed while you were a good portion through a floor? Yeah this just adds in another wrinkle your main team just really does not want to deal with. Last thing you want is to wipe because the RNG said gently caress you.

This is the last game where Nectars are easy to get, even if they're more expensive individually. Trust me, you'll miss it.



Eventually this drat toxin will work...

Still, we are having the easy times, I am gladding we are cohesing as a group.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Fresh Blood and Darkness



But after passing through an old ruin and entering a hall, you feel a strong presence...

Was this what nearly killed you before? I can give it a good kick for ya.

Hmm... nope! Never seen it before in my life.

You peer into the next hall and witness a dreadful monster sitting in the room's center! You wonder, though, if it might be wounded... it doesn't seem to budge from its position. You ask yourself if you are confident enough if your skills to challenge the creature. If not, you muse, it might be best to walk away as quietly as you came...



We will worry about such a monster later, but since we're close to the entrance... hmm... yes, I see...

Ohoh, good eye, I'll clear this out in no time!



Woah, what's this shortcut doing here so early? Last game the first one we found was the FIFTH FLOOR, otherwise you had to walk the entire length of the stratum if you wanted to get anywhere. It was one of my biggest issues with the game, aside from a variety of other things.

The shortcut design thankfully got much better after EO1. It was just dire in that game. Ridiculously long stretches of walks just to reach a specific destination, oy.

All hail the holy shortcut, savior of players from tedium.



And with motherfucking arrows, I can also label them properly. Ah, bliss.



We can beat it!

No we can't!

That's 3-2, cause Sophia doesn't count, we win!

I love democracy.



Actually we can't beat this- URK

At least leave a body behind for me to fix!


Gashtor

HP: 300
STR: 17
VIT: 17
TEC: 17
AGI: 17
LUC: 17
Level: 9
Exp: 0

Skills
Fangs: Uses the Head. Deals 150% Cut damage to a single target and attempts to inflict Paralysis. Has a 50% base infliction chance, a 100% accuracy modifier and a 150% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100%
125% 100% 100%

Disable Vulnerabilities
25% 25% 25% 25% 25% 25% 25% 10%
25% 25% 25% 50% 10%

Drops
None

Conditional: None

Surprise, surprise, this enemy that teaches us that maybe you should avoid these floating orange balls of death, is something to be avoided because it will completely annihilate you. Now with some cheese you can Force and Viper this thing down pretty early, otherwise 300HP is a lot to chew through when you do like 10 per hit. One saving grace is it takes 5 turns to kill you, so we'll try and properly beat it up later.

The Gashtor basically serves as a soft demonstration to the signature mechanic of the Etrian Odyssey series, the FOE. There's also a shortcut nearby so you can immediately get back to where you were in case this thing causes a wipe after you learn the very harsh lesson that FOEs are not to be trifled with. It doesn't even move around either just so you can see how it functions in the dungeon.

Oh what's that? You're a seasoned FOE killer from the EO1 or EO3 days or so and think you can take these things? Your enthusiasm is appreciated but let me just tell you this right now. DO NOT gently caress WITH EO2 FOES! They are on an entirely different league of deadly compared to the FOEs in the rest of the series! They will all be happy to feast on the delicious 5 course meal you send their way when fighting them!

Take note of the EXP it gives, by the way.



This isn't going in well, so since it cannot be chasing, we should be leaving.

At least some of us are sane.

Aww, fine, I can slay it later, I'm sure.

In case the sheer overkill damage they deal to you didn't hammer it in, the pathetic damage you deal and the barely visible dent you put in their health bars should probably tell you that fighting FOEs at first sight is a bad bad idea!

Woodland Ruins



You turn and see a lone guard jogging in your direction.

You guys are explorers, right? Yeah, I've seen you before... what are you doing back here?

What is you talking ab- OH, the quest we accepted. Why, I was so distracted by Cass's wide and plump neck that I completely forgot about it!

After telling him of your current errand, he nods and begins to speak.

I know just the place, in the southern area. It looks like a dead end, but you can't miss it.

You thank the guard and begin anew your search for the spring.

I was gonna do the quest after reaching the second floor, cause I'm really not in a rush, so I didn't know the game told you about it. There's quite a few quests where the game goes "wrong way idiot", but they're not all listed on the Gamefaqs maps, especially this one.

Huh. I didn't know this either. There isn't really a text dump available for EO2 to reveal these kinds of things to us, sadly.



1F C3 Take Point

Ambush Chance: 1%
Ambush Encounter:
100% Raflesia x1

Sour Fruit. 70% chance. Sells for 30en.
1 required for Ward Chime - Item, Lv2 Stalker, reduces danger values by 33% for 50 steps - sells for 200en
2 required for Guard Sole - Item, Lv2 Patrol, reduces damage tile damage by 40% for 50 steps - sells for 200en
3 required for Poison Gas - Item, Lv1 Poison, 15% base infliction chance, 20-30 damage - sells for 450en

Tiny Bloom. 25% chance. Sells for 25en.
1 required for Nectar - Medicine, revives the target to 10-16HP, TEC depending - sells for 500en
2 required for Theriaca A - Medicine, LV5 Unbind, removes all binds from the target - sells for 100en
3 required for Theriaca B - Medicine, LV8 Refresh, removes all ailments from the target - sells for 100en

Green Nut. 5% chance. Sells for 75en.
1 required for Blaze Oil - Item, Lv1 Blaze, imbues the target's regular attacks with Fire damage - sells for 250en, must be restocked
1 required for Freeze Oil - Item, Lv1 Frost, imbues the target's regular attacks with Ice damage - sells for 250en, must be restocked
1 required for Shock Oil - Item, Lv1 Shock, imbues the target's regular attacks with Volt damage - sells for 250en, must be restocked

One other negative about gathering is the variety of spots is really, really boring. On the dedicated floor, one spot has one item as the most common one, and the other spot is the opposite. Any additional ones throughout the stratum just tweak the numbers, maybe make the 5% drop 25% instead. Thoroughly predictable and uninteresting.

It does make item hunting for unlocks easier, but uh, you're never really told which points are the best to gather from. It's just something that you either have to figure out or you just think all gathering points are basically the same. In short not a well communicated mechanic. Most players don't even realize there are different rates for different nodes throughout this series. Oh and this point really gets the short end of the stick. Tiny Blooms are easily the better item to be going for than those discount field skills.



Oh hey you finally landed something.

I did?! Uh, well, of course, as expected of Sonia Slicer, ohohohoho!



Up those stairs is my mortal enemy, I'll win this time!!!

I guess we are to be going in that way.



Here's a new floor! I only did this to remove last floor's aggro, back down we go.




Ooh, wonder if I could shoot webs from my mouth?

That's not how it works.



Next level... Eleanore finally gets an attacking skill. Also like with Viper, Torpor will be pretty ineffective until we actually put levels into it.

Vast Lands Spreading in the North




Ugh, warping is some dark magic...

But at least we finished the first floor! We should have a- hmm? It's that guy!!!

Do do doooooo, lots of materials for the guild I mostly like.

I am needing to resting so will go to the inn.

I'll go to the bar, get the taste of grass out of my mouth...

Very well, we shall reconvene with the rest of the guild momentarily. Where's Eleanore off to?

Heyyyyyyy, mister material! Did you find all that in the labyrinth?

Huh? Me? Uh, well yeah, it's what I do.

Alright! ALRIGHT!!! We're looking for someone like that for our guild, wanna help us?

Uh, don't get so close... I mean, I could, but I have another guild I do this for, so I'm not really interested. See ya.

Ah, wait, don't go... uhhhhhh... we'll pay you!

...r-really? Do guilds like that... exist?

Of course! You seem really skilled, here's some cash upfront and we can sort the rest out later, okay? ...are you crying?

N-No! I'm just surprised. Sure, I'll help you out! ...are you crying?!

I'm just... so... happy!

M-Me too!

WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!



Kalinga, requires 1 Earth Nail
Nail Whip, requires 1 Small Nail - ATK+19 - A whip tipped with monster nails.
Amud Staff, requires 2 Husk Shards - ATK+18, TP+8 - The crystal on its tip acts as a magical focus.



Hard Vest, requires 3 Soft Fur, 1 Bug Wing
Jerkin, requires 2 Soft Fur - DEF+10 - Body covering made from the fur of forest beasts.
Steel Pin, requires 3 Husk Shard, 1 Small Nail - DEF+5, TP+5 - Hair clip made from a forest bug's claws.
Hide Gage, requires 1 Soft Fur - DEF+4, VIT+1 - Easy-to-use gloves that prevent slipping.

Oh, hello! It's so good to see you again! How is your equipment? If you have any problems, I'll see if my father can fix it. He always says that the key to victory is good equipment! So please take good care of it!

Cripes, now I'm imagining an EO with equipment durability. Horrifying.



Why don't you get up to your room and change those clothes? You should relax once in a while! Walk around town! Life's not all about exploring.



So you've reached the next floor... I see. Well, congratulations. Just don't forget that the Labyrinth is a very dangerous place.



Payment, huh?

That, ahem, is what she said.

I'll pay yeh in drinks, howzat?

I'll pay you in silence.

I think money will be fine, we do require your service after all. If you could get some spring water for this quest, I would appreciate it.

On the bottom right, you can't miss it, unless you are missing.

Right, uh, thanks. Weird feeling being wanted, I'll be back in a flash!

Heh, by yourself stalking the labyrinth, sounds like an adventure. One he's familiar with, too.



Listen, though... you're a tiny fish in a big pond. There's a lot of other explorers in the world out there. But if yeh want to get stronger, I've got some advice for yeh. Don't die! Got it? Haw haw haw!



I see you've reached the 2nd floor... good, good. Everything seems to be going smoothly. Most explorers underestimate the Labyrinth and slink out of High Lagaard in shame. Then, too, many explorers vanish into the Labyrinth, never to return. Under no circumstances forget the ease with which the Labyrinth can claim your life. That's all the advice I have for now. Never underestimate the Labyrinth.



Ah, that looks good, thanks a lot!

as if i'd trust them to clean up the mess they make with this.

In a rarity for the series, we're done with this floor. No secret area, no revisiting another part from another floor. We're done!

Not too often you're truly done with an earlygame floor on the first visit, but that's actually the case here. And unlike in EO1, some of the nonsensical unlock triggers, such as a passage only opening up when you reach a specific floor, or one opening up when you examine a specific wall, are now gone from this game, and the rest of the series. If you have to do something to unlock a passage, it's now much more obvious, like a quest trigger or something.



Wonderful! You may yet have what it takes to explore the Labyrinth. I hope you can discover the floating castle before this old body collapses. Good luck.



It seems that water from some natural source has found an outlet, creating a small stream.



You take a moment to enjoy its cool, refreshing taste... it's a sensation like no other. After draining your flask, you fill it with the water flowing from the spring.



I've got a new guild counting on me, this is my chance to not mutter to myself while doing these tasks and being weird! ...like I'm doing right now. Hmm.



We've got our gathering party, so it's time to grind them on bosses to give them exp and nice gathering skills. Or I could use an exp cheat, either works.



It's like I'm not even there!

Now outside of getting pasted by gathering ambushes, we're set for the rest of the game. At max level, any tile with a danger value of 4 is now 0, because the game rounds down, which is most of the tiles in the game! But of course we still have that one issue...



Why do I hear boss music...? Ah gently caress.


Raflesia

HP: 220
STR: 20
VIT: 15
TEC: 12
AGI: 12
LUC: 15
Level: 16
Exp: 831

Skills
Pollen: Uses the Arms. Attempts to inflict Poison on the entire party. Has an 50% base infliction chance, deals 28-42 Poison damage and has a 100% speed modifier.
Freeze: Uses the Arms. Deals Ice damage to a single target, with splash damage, with a spell power of 40 and damage multiplied by 105%. Has a 99% accuracy modifier and a 50% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
75% 100% 100%
150% 0% 100%

Disable Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Drops
Huge Petal: 30% chance, sells for 24en.
1 required for Wildflower - Collar, DEF+38 - sells for 450en
1 required for Poison Gas - Item, Lv1 Poison, 15% base infliction chance, 20-30 damage - sells for 450en
2 required for Sherwani - Clothing, DEF+20, VIT+1 - sells for 420en
3 required for Hide Aspis - Heavy Armor, DEF+12 - sells for 325en

Conditional: Kill with Slash damage
Gum Vine: 50% chance, sells for 30en
5 required for Briar Whip - Whip, ATK+42, VIT+1, AGI+1 - sells for 520en

This is a monster that we won't be encountering until the end of the stratum, but surprise, here it is to kick your rear end. If you can beat this, then you'll get a nice chunk of exp and some early drops. But of course you need other drops for later items and you're blindsided and thus likely in a dangerous situation. An annoying wrinkle to gathering, but with how low the chance is, it's not a massive deal, especially because a team of gatherers is good at running away if nothing else.

Yeah this is basically just Atlus giving you the middle finger. And if you get really unlucky, you'll get wiped immediately. Oh and if you're coming from a later game where gathering ambushes got a pretty heavy nerf, gathering ambushes in this game don't function like those. In later games ambushes are just a guaranteed blindside with the floor's standard encounters. In EO2 however? Atlus specifically crafted a set of "gently caress YOU!" encounters for each and every single gathering point in the game. On top of every single one of those being guaranteed blindsides. Some enemy formations being impossible to see outside of gathering ambushes as well. So gathering ambushes in EO2 go well beyond an inconvenience and are straight up designed to cause party wipes! Basically, never gather with your main party, only do it with a dedicated gathering team if you don't want to lose a lot of progress!



Still, it's very likely to just attack on the first turn, so you'll be able to run away with 4 people next turn. Ro only survived due to his higher level, I did not put any armour on him, because I'm doing this to get money to buy armour!



Nectar, requires 1 Tiny Bloom - Medicine, revives the target to 10-16HP, TEC depending
Shock Oil, requires 1 Green Nut, must be restocked - Item, Lv1 Shock, imbues the target's regular attacks with Volt damage - Weapon oil to change its element to volt.
Blaze Oil, requires 1 Green Nut, must be restocked - Item, Lv1 Blaze, imbues the target's regular attacks with Ice damage - Weapon oil to change its element to fire.
Freeze Oil, requires 1 Green Nut, must be restocked - Item, Lv1 Frost, imbues the target's regular attacks with Fire damage - Weapon oil to change its element to ice.
Ward Chime, requires 1 Sour Fruit - Item, Lv2 Stalker, reduces danger values by 33% for 50 steps - Its repellent chime decreases the encounter rate.
Guard Sole, requires 2 Sour Fruits - Item, Lv2 Patrol, reduces damage tile damage by 40% for 50 steps - Insoles that lower the damage sustained from trap floors.
Therica B, requires 3 Tiny Blooms, 1 Bug Wing - Medicine, LV8 Refresh, removes all ailments from the target - Serum made from moth venom to restore a comrade's status.
Therica A, requires 2 Tiny Blooms - Medicine, LV5 Unbind, removes all binds from the target, sells for 100en - Mixture of forest ingredients to remove a comrade's bonds.

We need a few runs of this if we want to bring some Nectars along. Otherwise you can wait to grind money later, it's not a big deal. I'll be doing this a fair bit since I'll be outfitting 12 characters instead of 5, but such is the LP life.

Nectars are more expensive in the first two games but thankfully don't need to be restocked like in the later games. While it hurts for the earlygame, I honestly preferred that over making them a cheap restockable. But yeah, bring Nectars along if you can, deaths basically stop exploration trips cold and Nectars let you keep going in spite of those.



You're welcome.

Wha-?! I have yet to finish one glass, how did you do that so quickly?

Well, well, look who's back. And yeh've got the Rock Water. It doesn't look like much, but I s'pose even this is a blessing from the Labyrinth. We're a small town here, and I'spect we'd lay over and die if it weren't for Yggdrasil. Another job well done, all of yeh. Here's the reward.



The first of many wonderful "rewards". Anyway since that's done we can access the quests we unlocked from reaching the second floor. Didn't know that was a thing either!

I believe it's just this quest that bottlenecks the rest of the quests in the game. Which is probably why that had a guard nag you about the wrong direction, as you can't do any other quests if you don't get this little tutorial quest done. Later quests only bottleneck their own quest lines instead of every single quest from a later floor.



There's a craftsman been here for a dog's age. He's a mite odd, but drat good at his job. He makes clothes from animal skin, but it's a tough needle that can pierce them hides. Shouldn't be too hard to find a beastie that'll drop the Long Pins yeh need. G'luck!



Yeh know Sitoth Trading, of course. The dry goods store just out front... exactly. Never seen Sitoth myself, as the man's obsessed with his job. He never leaves the workshop. Nah, this one's from his girl Abigail. She wants to help yeh lot out by making new weapons. How can yeh refuse a girl like that? I put it up straightaway, but... well... to be honest, I wasn't listening too close. Yeh'll have to go ask her what she needs.



I haven't got much details for yeh, but it sounds like they need a strong landsknecht. Other'n that, the Duke's men seem a mite... recalcitrant about the whole affair. Ahh, but I'm sure they pay well, and that's what counts, innit? But don't get all puffed up just because yeh're the man they're looking for!

Ooh, ooh, I'm recalwhatever.

Recalcitrant: a person with an obstinately uncooperative attitude. Not heard such a word since my time with the-

Obstintater? Whazzat?



C'mon, don't let me down now. Come back with a landsknecht that yeh think can do the job, all right? I'm counting on yeh!

Regardless, seems like you need a bit more adventuring experience to be accepted. Not like I need anything of the sort, o-of course.

Ack, fine, I'll be back fer this!

Sure game, encourage early players to train up a Landy, what can go wrong? It is recommended to still have one of each class for a variety of reasons, but you can see how they slowly phase out this kind of thinking later in the series.

Oh boy. These kinds of quests are kind of infamous in the playerbase, but not for the reasons you'd think. Just don't take these quests until you are ready to instantly clear them right away, just trust me on this! Not only that, but there's actually a hidden level requirement you have to reach to get the maximum reward. In this case, the game really wants a level 10 Landsknecht. So if you want the best rewards, you'll have to leave these quests in the backlog.



Whew! I'd never made a request with Cass before, so I wasn't sure if anyone would take it... my father's very busy, so I'll have to give you the materials list myself. Umm... here it is. What we need is... 1 Bug Wing and 1 Bent Twig. Once you have the materials, sell them to me. The reward is on top of the sale price.



Did a couple more runs to fill out our bag space and upgrade everyone from loving Tweed. We can reach 2F without a single encounter if you're lucky, so that's nice.



Lots of doors, Lily told us to be wary, I don't believe she's wrong...

You seem to be edging more now.

I don't think that's the right wording, but keep trying.



I can feel it... the presence of that which nearly slayed me. I will have my revenge!

I mean, I can just look over slightly and see the massive deer, though not ones I'm familiar with.

Be careful everyone, I have heard tales of these deadly Formido Oppugnatura Exsequens from Juthro, we should not-

FOE?

FOE!

FOE! FOE! FOE! FOE!

Democracy is still in effect.

Sigh... I figured this would happen, I can only heal you so much.

A Sudden Gust of Wind that Calls for Death



Hmm, well, we're fighting this thing, so let's help Eleanore with her revenge.

...never seen this before in my life.

Then what were you talking about before???


Furyhorn

HP: 420
STR: 18
VIT: 18
TEC: 16
AGI: 18
LUC: 16
Level: 8
Exp: 0

Skills
Step: Uses the Legs. Deals 80% Cut damage to a single target, with 75% splash damage, and attempts to inflict Panic. Has a 30% base infliction chance, a 95% accuracy modifier and a 120% speed modifier.

Damage Vulnerabilities
100% 100% 100%
125% 75% 75%

Disable Vulnerabilities
25% 25% 25% 25% 25% 25% 25% 10%
25% 25% 25% 50% 10%

Drops
Deer Hide: 25% chance, sells for 203en
1 required for Hide Armor - Light Armor, DEF+23 - sells for 500en

Gum Hide: 95% chance, sells for 11en.
1 required for Wing Leaf - Clothing, DEF+13, HP+5 - sells for 200en
1 required for Sherwani - Clothing, DEF+20, VIT+1 - sells for 420en
2 required for Bullwhip - Whip, ATK+32, +40 speed - sells for 260en
2 required for Hide Aspis - Shield, DEF+12 - sells for 325en
2 required for Rough Hat - Headgear, DEF+8, TP+8 - sells for 120en
3 required for Hide Plate - Heavy Armor, DEF+22 - sells for 310en
5 required for Iron Glove - Gloves, DEF+10, VIT+1

Conditional: None

Now for the first definitively FOE you could accidentally walk into and get slaughtered. You can see that it's slightly stronger than the Gashtor and will obliterate multiple people at once. You can't see the path they take unless you walk it yourself, so take your time and try not to end your exploration early by running into an FOE, they're much better avoiding compared to last game. They're still worth fighting later on, but only to get their drops, since as you can see, no experience.

Furyhorns are where the FOE related kid gloves start coming off. For one, they actually move around. And secondly, they will slaughter you even harder. Where you had at least 5 turns to escape from the Gashtor, you only really have around 2 to run from a Furyhorn. And in some cases that will be impossible and the only thing you can do is to accept your death.

Also another global change to FOEs other than beefing them the gently caress up, FOEs in EO2 no longer give out experience points! (Reverted in EO3 onwards.) They're basically obstacles to be avoided, not monsters to fight! You basically can't go toe-to-toe with an FOE until a long while after you first encounter them as they will gladly gently caress your poo poo up! In short, only fight FOEs when you absolutely have to, it's just not worth it otherwise. They're a complete waste of time that will gladly pummel you until their last breath in the process.

Extremely big step up from their equivalents in EO1. Wait until they get the ability to panic the entire party.



Another monster to exact my reve-GRK!

I am thinking we are the hosed.



No worries, I'll pop it to snooze! ...yeah we're boned.

If only this was avoidable. I hate you all.

Once Again Until the Day of the Challenge



Darn, looks like my ironman ended quicker than I expected, sucks, but what can you do? With EO2 over, guess I can move onto my next LP, Pokemon White 2!

Ah, if only it were that easy.

In case the Gashtor didn't hammer it in, Furyhorns will harshly teach you the lesson that FOEs are not to be trifiled with! Especially in this game when FOEs are easily at their strongest in the entire series!

é

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


It's kind of funny how, despite Atlus games mellowing out on difficulty with the years, they all still have in common the early game that wants to murder you.

And drat, all those changes from 1 to 2 seem like they were trying to make "Etrian Oddysey I: Nerf Edition". Cause between classes, gathering and FOEs it's literally the opposite in many ways.

JeffRaze
Mar 13, 2021


Not being able to buy warp wires for your first foray into the labyrinth is one of those things that never made sense to me. I mean sure there's a gameplay reason for that, but in universe they're basically not letting new adventurers use one of the most vital items for exploration. If anything they should make taking a warp wire on your first trek mandatory. Underestimated what the labyrinth is like? Sucks to be you, guess you'll die.

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Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


JeffRaze posted:

Not being able to buy warp wires for your first foray into the labyrinth is one of those things that never made sense to me. I mean sure there's a gameplay reason for that, but in universe they're basically not letting new adventurers use one of the most vital items for exploration. If anything they should make taking a warp wire on your first trek mandatory. Underestimated what the labyrinth is like? Sucks to be you, guess you'll die.

You actually bring up a very good point. It did make sense back in EO1, as Visil didn't really want explorers finishing the Labyrinth and was really running a glorified slaughterhouse instead. Later games, not so much, everyone has an active interest in reaching the bottom/top of the Labyrinth so just letting newbies die left and right really doesn't make much sense, especially compared to 1's story where it didn't exactly want you finishing the game.

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