Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Peachfart
Jan 21, 2017



Aardvark! posted:

Completely aside from the Larry Parrish probation/mod poo poo, I have seen this posted a few times now.

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned? Is that actually what people want out of the forums now?

The forums have swung back and forth on the level of moderation and what should be moderated over the last 2 decades. Very few people believe that everything should be a free for all and very few want the Ozma days where you probated for poor grammar, but most posters are somewhere between those goalposts.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Booourns
Jan 20, 2004
Please send a report when you see me complain about other posters and threads outside of QCS

~thanks!

Aardvark! posted:

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned?

Right around when GBS 2.0 happened, though it really began when fragmaster left and no one was willing to be the admin to take the heat

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002



THS posted:

probably during the late 2000s where heavy gbs moderation was partly lead by aatrek

that is a big blindspot in my Forums History since i went to college and stopped lurking for a while

I still think there should be some level of Not Posting Bad policed by mods. i definitely don't want to read a FYAD with full wheelhouse/epg/borktron access 24/7, for example

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


Aardvark! posted:

Completely aside from the Larry Parrish probation/mod poo poo, I have seen this posted a few times now.

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned? Is that actually what people want out of the forums now?

Theres a vocal type of poster that thinks that there shouldnt be any rules about what they can and cant post. Seems to be a bit of an overlap with people who say its just bad words when they get called out for using slurs, in my experience.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002



sorry to keep derailing this but that's very interesting. i was in college 09-13 and didn't start reading the forums again until 2015ish

by the time I started reading again, I think mods had started cracking down on pure poo poo posting. Was the '10-'14 period of SA some kind of wild west?

apropos to nothing
Sep 5, 2003



Aardvark! posted:

Completely aside from the Larry Parrish probation/mod poo poo, I have seen this posted a few times now.

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned? Is that actually what people want out of the forums now?

I have always felt the posters should generally police themselves and mods should just probate people saving bans only for seriously bad poo poo. and many posters have also felt this way for eternity especially in the pink forum. Lowtax and others used to just ban people cause they didnt like them or sometimes even because they didnt understand a joke a poster made. In terms of why more people probably feel that way now is that in the previous year the owner of the website who me and other people have been calling a domestic abuser for years was revealed to be a domestic abuser for the third or fourth time and also there was a mod who pretended to be a nazi to infiltrate nazi discords where he posted jokes that the Nazis enjoyed and this was fine because it was in service to another mod who conned a bunch of goons to buy her a new gaming laptop and also had alt accounts she used to cheerlead herself and her friends.

I could go on because Ive been here long enough that theres many other less recent examples of similarly insane and unhinged poo poo done by mods over the years but basically goons suck and mods are just goons so they also suck but have the smallest amount of power imaginable which means they of course are prone to abusing that small amount of power in the most absurd ways possible.

Continuing to be real for a moment, I am a normal person so what that means is if I get banned I will just go to Twitter or whatever and will never post here again. This is the normal response to being banned imo and having to pay money to the person who banned you in 2021 in order to continue posting on a washed up comedy site seems ludicrous. But lots of people get banned and come back or get permabanned and make alts and poo poo. These people are often insane because they are obsessed with the site in a very negative way an so the website drives away anyone who would behave normally and keeps people who are insane. Imo a ban should mean we no longer want this person posting here, they can if they pay money to or if they self ban as a joke or to support the site or stupid stuff but if they break a rule that deserves a ban that implies to me that they are not welcome to post anymore. They can if they rereg but dont really want them here. If you keep Larry and others banned to me that says we dont want them posting here anymore and for the whole last year while Larry was banned for the crime of saying he didnt think the Adolph Hitler megathread was sincere but in fact a joke (not posting it or in it, just saying he thought it was clearly meant as a joke-again great example of mods using their power responsibly), he didnt as far as I know. He didnt rereg didnt use an alt he just left. Thats what I and any other sane person would do as well I imagine.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

keep on fightin'


Aardvark! posted:

sorry to keep derailing this but that's very interesting. i was in college 09-13 and didn't start reading the forums again until 2015ish

by the time I started reading again, I think mods had started cracking down on pure poo poo posting. Was the '10-'14 period of SA some kind of wild west?

10-14 was the high-water mark for "Comma splice. User loses posting privileges for 1 week". They took the reins off on Halloween 2014 and people got a little rowdy.

Lambo Trillrissian
May 18, 2007


thetoughestbean posted:

Theres a vocal type of poster that thinks that there shouldnt be any rules about what they can and cant post. Seems to be a bit of an overlap with people who say its just bad words when they get called out for using slurs, in my experience.

There's a vocal type of poster that thinks that the mods should be mindless word filters refusing to consider the context of jokes on a comedy forum. Seems to be a bit of an overlap with people who never get over it when they get called out for being tedious scolds who aren't actually doing anything to make the world a better place but like to pretend by policing the language of conversations they weren't even a part of online, in my experience.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


GBS 2.0 was a good idea for about a week or two but people discovered they could basically do anything and it got run into the ground extremely fast.

It's interesting because irrc at the time it was supposed to just be a fun halloween thing for GBS and not much thought was put into it.

Victory Position
Mar 15, 2004





apropos to nothing posted:

I could go on because Ive been here long enough that theres many other less recent examples of similarly insane and unhinged poo poo done by mods over the years but basically goons suck and mods are just goons so they also suck but have the smallest amount of power imaginable which means they of course are prone to abusing that small amount of power in the most absurd ways possible.

I have no idea why, when you receive buttons to look over, say, a thread where people post permutations of the word "TRUMP" over and over again, you suddenly feel the itch to take a stance against the China thread.

Victory Position fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 15, 2021

Greg Legg
Oct 6, 2004


Aardvark! posted:

Completely aside from the Larry Parrish probation/mod poo poo, I have seen this posted a few times now.

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned? Is that actually what people want out of the forums now?

If I remember correctly it seemed to change around the time a mod was confirmed to be a pedophile. I might be wrong.

Varinn
May 3, 2005



apropos to nothing posted:

I could go on because Ive been here long enough that theres many other less recent examples of similarly insane and unhinged poo poo done by mods over the years but basically goons suck and mods are just goons so they also suck but have the smallest amount of power imaginable which means they of course are prone to abusing that small amount of power in the most absurd ways possible.

I feel like using 'goons' in this discussion is really confusing, because essentially this just boils down to 'every user on this site sucks, and so we can't have mods' we doesn't really feel like a solvable problem.

I know everyone on this website colloquially uses 'goons' to just mean 'everyone else on the website (but me)', but like the website is enormous. it feels extremely short sighted to extrapolate 'the places i post don't have good moderation' to 'the forum shouldn't have moderation at all'. I think theres been a big push on the internet in the last decade against human moderation in every single other social media website and its been largely lovely. The value of a forum like SA is in the fact that it's not run by a psycho silicon valley corporation and can actually have real human moderation, and actually create a sense of community. I don't think itd surprise anyone to know that basically every single subforum here tends to have a separate community of posters (with a lot of overlap obv), and different communities probably have different levels of need for moderation.

I think its worth people actually trying to figure out ways that moderation can be made better for individual communities on the website than just throwing all of it out for everyone.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002



apropos to nothing posted:

I have always felt the posters should generally police themselves and mods should just probate people saving bans only for seriously bad poo poo. and many posters have also felt this way for eternity especially in the pink forum. Lowtax and others used to just ban people cause they didnt like them or sometimes even because they didnt understand a joke a poster made. In terms of why more people probably feel that way now is that in the previous year the owner of the website who me and other people have been calling a domestic abuser for years was revealed to be a domestic abuser for the third or fourth time and also there was a mod who pretended to be a nazi to infiltrate nazi discords where he posted jokes that the Nazis enjoyed and this was fine because it was in service to another mod who conned a bunch of goons to buy her a new gaming laptop and also had alt accounts she used to cheerlead herself and her friends.

I could go on because Ive been here long enough that theres many other less recent examples of similarly insane and unhinged poo poo done by mods over the years but basically goons suck and mods are just goons so they also suck but have the smallest amount of power imaginable which means they of course are prone to abusing that small amount of power in the most absurd ways possible.

Continuing to be real for a moment, I am a normal person so what that means is if I get banned I will just go to Twitter or whatever and will never post here again. This is the normal response to being banned imo and having to pay money to the person who banned you in 2021 in order to continue posting on a washed up comedy site seems ludicrous. But lots of people get banned and come back or get permabanned and make alts and poo poo. These people are often insane because they are obsessed with the site in a very negative way an so the website drives away anyone who would behave normally and keeps people who are insane. Imo a ban should mean we no longer want this person posting here, they can if they pay money to or if they self ban as a joke or to support the site or stupid stuff but if they break a rule that deserves a ban that implies to me that they are not welcome to post anymore. They can if they rereg but dont really want them here. If you keep Larry and others banned to me that says we dont want them posting here anymore and for the whole last year while Larry was banned for the crime of saying he didnt think the Adolph Hitler megathread was sincere but in fact a joke (not posting it or in it, just saying he thought it was clearly meant as a joke-again great example of mods using their power responsibly), he didnt as far as I know. He didnt rereg didnt use an alt he just left. Thats what I and any other sane person would do as well I imagine.

This makes a lot of sense to me now. Thank you for the explanation. I had especially not considered the aspects of paying the forum owner/what happened with Lowtax, and I spent my share, so I totally get that. I support the unbans.

Probe length I dunno. I get that the pedo accusations are a meme, and they don't bother me. But if they bother the other mods, I think they probably bother the people in their forums as well, so I think it's ok to decide it is not welcome at an admin level and escalate punishments.

Muscle Wizard
Jul 28, 2011


Victory Position posted:

I have no idea why, when you receive buttons to look over, say, a thread where people post permutations of the word "TRUMP" over and over again, you suddenly feel the itch to take a stance against the China thread.

its true what they say....power corrupts

Schweinhund
Oct 23, 2004

                                       


Aardvark! posted:

Completely aside from the Larry Parrish probation/mod poo poo, I have seen this posted a few times now.

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned? Is that actually what people want out of the forums now?
the people who say that are terrible posters


THS posted:

probably during the late 2000s where heavy gbs moderation was partly lead by aatrek

he was a TVIV mod, quit spewing bullshit

Varinn
May 3, 2005



also its always very weird to talk about some sort of rot within the moderation culture when something ive always associated with SA is insane mod/admin churn

like every year it seems like 99% are new people, I can't imagine there's any sort of institutional memory or culture lmao

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

Aww, so I had my slant on. Lay off me!


Lol at the pedo defenders

Lambo Trillrissian
May 18, 2007


Varinn posted:

also its always very weird to talk about some sort of rot within the moderation culture when something ive always associated with SA is insane mod/admin churn

like every year it seems like 99% are new people, I can't imagine there's any sort of institutional memory or culture lmao

in my experience, you really can have an entrenched institutional culture with high turnover. it's just guaranteed to be a dysfunctional one that is hard to fix because the people who care enough to try burn out fastest while the freaks who thrive on or at least tolerate petty bullshit tend to stick around longer and resist change.

HugeGrossBurrito
Mar 20, 2018


Unban imo

Office Pig
Aug 1, 2010

YAY!


Fluffdaddy, the hour of courage is nigh

Fluffdaddy where are you

Varinn
May 3, 2005



Lambo Trillrissian posted:

in my experience, you really can have an entrenched institutional culture with high turnover. it's just guaranteed to be a dysfunctional one that is hard to fix because the people who care enough to try burn out fastest while the freaks who thrive on or at least tolerate petty bullshit tend to stick around longer and resist change.

thats true but there was literally like an almost complete turnover of every single admin last year, so its not like there's anyone holding on to some seat of power


unless I guess the coupons admin is pulling the strings

Ammat The Ankh
Sep 7, 2010

Who'd have thought Hell would be this boring?


Coupons is absolutely the Bilderburg Group of the forums.

Also unban IMO, I don't care about people getting hit with probes for dumb, overtread jokes but ban/30 is a little much.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020


apropos to nothing posted:

Thats what I and any other sane person would do as well I imagine.

I object to the characterization of communist LARPers who address each other as 'comrade' on a dying comedy forum as 'sane and normal' but those bans were still kinda dumb, if only because of how inconsistent they were.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012



Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

They were obvious jokes but they were jokes coming from a place of anger about whatever stupid drama CSPAM was pissed about instead of “just” a joke so I think it’s fine to punish them, but a ban + 30 as if they were making an actual unfounded accusation is too much imo. At least unban them and shorten the probation.

Also,


lol

Agreed, except even more than a joke 6er as "punishment" seems too much. How is it actually different than "gently caress the mods" or similar, since it definitely is not a serious accusation?

e; or a non joke 6er that conveys "we don't appreciate being called pedophiles as a joke so stop" or whatever

sourdough fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Mar 15, 2021

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Unban, give everyone a week.

Not just those involved.Everyone

strong bird
May 12, 2009


mods are peeds

people
earning
eour
disrespect
superlatively

Lambo Trillrissian
May 18, 2007


Varinn posted:

thats true but there was literally like an almost complete turnover of every single admin last year, so its not like there's anyone holding on to some seat of power


unless I guess the coupons admin is pulling the strings

The thing about institutional culture is that it can persist without people, inherited wisdom and policy can echo outwards without being taught by any one person. You don't need a ruling clique mandating bad behaviors, structural flaws in how an organization is composed can encourage wrong action and misaligned priorities all on their own. The SA moderatorship is made out of volunteers from a misanthropic comedy hole in the wall with no formal training and no one with real organizing experience directing them, holding them accountable, or providing them with support and guidance.

This is true now and it has been true of every generation of SA's leadership, it's not only that Lowtax was a lazy useless poo poo but also that we are all a bunch of shitheads. I don't think that SA leadership should stop being drawn from the community, that would destroy the site's culture. But Jeffrey should shell out for an actual loving professional to do just a couple weeks work drawing up some guidance and policies for mods so that they have coping strategies for, just off the top of my head, properly deescalating a situation with accusations of creepy harassing PMs instead of blowing the situation up by probating the accuser, or not being giant babies when someone gently ribs them with obvious jokes. Or perhaps knowing the difference between actual racial slurs and calling french people frogs lmao.

Shell out for just a few days of training for admins, just a simple virtual weekend retreat, to have some extremely basic real formal training at conflict resolution so that they can know what that looks like, because even though I really like a lot of you and you are trying your best most of the time this site still feels like it's being run by 19 year olds making it up as they go.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007


We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold





christmas boots posted:

Unban, give everyone a week.

Not just those involved.Everyone

im not sure which image is funnier, the server hardware bursting into flames trying to process the lepers colony or its bursting into flames from everyone trying to post at once when the probes are up

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

Aww, so I had my slant on. Lay off me!


Also make the mod forum publicly readable

bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m
Apr 16, 2017

Í̝̰ ͓̯̖̫̹̯̤A҉m̺̩͝ ͇̬A̡̮̞̠͚͉̱̫ K̶e͓ǵ.̻̱̪͖̹̟̕


Aardvark! posted:

Completely aside from the Larry Parrish probation/mod poo poo, I have seen this posted a few times now.

When did SA go from being the most strictly moderated forum out there, to people thinking only illegal poo poo should get you get banned? Is that actually what people want out of the forums now?

FYAD posted an image of Stone Cold Steve Austin in a thread about a hot dog vendor, driving GBS insane.

That's why GBS 2.0 happened, in all seriousness.

flashman
Dec 16, 2003



Honky Dong Country posted:

It's official, the joke has become too old for the mods.

Freakazoid_
Jul 4, 2013




Buglord

Honky Dong Country posted:

It's official, the joke has become too old for the mods.

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003


no meds = f4

Lambo Trillrissian posted:

The thing about institutional culture is that it can persist without people,

this mf trying to say that there aint Forums Scholar mods or admins?

TRANS AM 20000
Apr 17, 2010


Time to punch it!



Honky Dong Country posted:

It's official, the joke has become too old for the mods.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.


Smellrose

Honky Dong Country posted:

It's official, the joke has become too old for the mods.

Lambo Trillrissian
May 18, 2007


Smythe posted:

this mf trying to say that there aint Forums Scholar mods or admins?

i mean, what kind of twisted maniac would want to claim sole responsibility for upholding SA's institutional culture, surely no one haha,

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


if you wanna be made fun of in new ways, you're gonna need new material.

doing the thing that made 'mods knew' famous isn't going to be productive.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.




Honky Dong Country posted:

It's official, the joke has become too old for the mods.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Fucker posted:

feels like that post is overshadowing the actual thread tho lol. r.i.p. to the banned for joking about mod pedophilia in the wrong place at the wrong time. seems like no one is gonna do poo poo ab it

Honky Dong Country demonstrates that the it can be extremely funny to joke that the mods are pedos, thereby proving that it is wrong to ban people for making such jokes.

Probe for making low energy jokes, sure, but dont ban them for broaching the topic.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Mar 15, 2021

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Professor of Cats
Mar 22, 2009



Platystemon posted:

Honky Dong Country proves that the it can be extremely funny to joke that the mods are pedos, thereby demonstrating that it is wrong to ban people for making such jokes.

Probe for making low energy jokes, sure, but dont ban them for broaching the topic.

Agreed. Unban. but I also think we should be okay with any mod getting irritated (no matter how hilarious) and just probing a bitch. But not me though. uh uh-

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply