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Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Rappaport posted:

It seems somewhat merciful of the game to plop you back at the beginning of that segment there, a nastier one would just leave you stranded in the darkness.

I was just waiting for him to jump over one too many spike pits and end up stuck in there. It was such an insane relief when he ended up at the door!

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Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


SA smilies are an excellent medium of artistic expression, but I must admit I'm biased to take a single smiley more seriously than the medium of smiley juxtaposition

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I really liked that argument too, of comparing a game to sports or hobbies instead of books and movies.

If you just want to see how the story turns out, you could either mod away any difficulty in the game, or watch someone else play it like we're all doing here, but you lose some of the experience that makes video games video games. Feelings like anxiety and frustration about making a mistake, which can become relief and joy when they're overcome. Or feelings of just being more personally invested because you're the one pushing the buttons.

But there's some give and take here, because aside from all art being subjective already, video games are going to have a whole nother layer of subjective variety in player responses and experiences, based on how they play or choose to interact with the game. That variety is pretty inherent to the medium as well. Even if you're fully committed to playing a game on its own terms, and investing whatever effort you must to get through it, people will have different experiences based on their skill levels. Someone who's extremely good at a game and just smashes through a hard boss effortlessly may miss out on an intended part of the emotional rollercoaster in the story.

So let's imagine you have a precise artistic vision that demands someone feels difficulty at point X of the story and relief at point Y. Instead of translating your work into different languages for everyone to understand it, your challenge would be to "translate" the difficulty, so players of all different skill levels will be appropriately challenged by their own subjective standards at each point of the game. But even if you take the time to develop all these different tools or difficulty levels to allow this to happen, players could still choose not to use them. Someone who's good enough at games that they could have played on Normal and experienced things "perfectly" might say "meh I can't be bothered" that day and pick Easy mode instead. Or someone who could have done fine in Easy mode might stubbornly insist that they're gonna get through it on Hard no matter what, and just keep beating their own head on the wall for no reason.

So I agree that game developers providing more options is better, especially for busy adults, since the ideal of someone experiencing a game exactly how you want is pretty ridiculous to begin with. But good design can allow for a surprisingly large number of people to have vaguely similar experiences! And everyone does need to decide for themselves in the end how they're going to engage with a game, and how much they're willing to invest. Or whether they'll even bother playing it as a game at all. Some games (like Undertale) I'll start reading an LP of cause I want to see what they're about, but then quickly decide "oh wait, this looks really cool, I'd much rather have the experience of playing through this myself while I can, instead of having it all done and spoiled for me. I'll be back later." While other games might make me waver more on whether I want to.

I've actually never played Hollow Knight so watching these episodes made me think... man, this game is gorgeous, I bet I'd really love the experience of wandering through if myself, but it's supposed to be pretty hard while Nat's just making it look easy. I don't think my skills are nearly as good since I've grown away from platformers as I got older, and I'm of course a busy adult too. I might still want to try and actually play it myself sometime later, but I'm not going to stress about getting spoiled first or missing out if I don't ever play it. Because I do have the past experience of playing more platformers back when I was younger. So when I watch the gameplay, I do at least have some reference for what that subjective experience might be like and I don't feel like I'm missing out on a huge unacceptable thing to just be watching it.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


SirSamVimes posted:

I do genuinely love that Dung Defender is just having the absolute time of his life for the entire boss fight.

:emptyquote:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Besides the awesome tense fight, I was really interested in Nat's "homework" session at the end of the episode. I'm also trying to put this stuff together totally blind here while I'm watching. And so far I've felt like all the earlier times Tea was prodding Nat about it, I wouldn't have had much to say myself, except "ask again later". But by now it finally feels like we're getting a lot of pieces to work with, and I guess I should start sharing my blind guesses too for even more vicarious newb thoughts. I think once I get some spare time to rewatch the earlier episodes while paying closer attention, things could make even more sense in hindsight. But for now I'm just gonna type this up based on my fuzzy incomplete memories.

So we've got these mostly-deserted ruins of what used to be a grand city. I think Nat's guess is correct, that they were mining for crystal until they got a Moria situation on their hands, unearthing the "mind-control stuff", whatever that is. Nat didn't mention the word "plague" but I think that's what the dreamers and others must be referring to when they've used that word. I also think all the pretty little firefly-looking lights could be spores of it or something? One interesting thing is that this had to have happened relatively recently, rather than the more common trope of everything being some ancient mystery. Since the stag beetle still has living memory of the city being bustling and busy.

I get what Nat's saying about the Greenpath seeming a bit disconnected from the rest of the city. I think that's the location where they must have actually performed whatever crazy dream magic they're doing, and where any other bugs who were sane enough to take part in it must be resting, pulled into the dream world like we were for just a brief time. Since that's the place that had all the vague mysterious messages to inspect, with a faintly religious nature about eternity and dreams and all.

One big thing I noticed this episode though while Nat was in the shops, was that besides those mask fragments for extra health, we can also buy vessel fragments for extra soul. Now that the Resting Grounds got the word "vessel" on my mind, that stood out to me a lot more. At first I was wondering if THE Vessel could refer to a being rather than a thing, like maybe the Hollow Knight, and their "sacrifice" was becoming this Vessel. But I didn't know what being the Vessel meant. Now that I got a reminder about this item, it seems to refer very specifically to a container to store soul power. So now I think the Vessel might be a bigass container that can hold enough soul energy to power all the dream magic. Those things you whack for extra soul energy look kinda like little mini-versions of the Hollow Knight statue now that I think about it. But how do they keep the energy from running out as they preserve Hallownest "eternally"? Maybe the same way our soul meter keeps getting recharged: drawing on the lives of all the zombie bugs around. This gives some more sinister implications to the fact that bugs are flocking to the ruins and feeling drawn to explore them.

I remain confused about Hornet and her motivations, and the Sage who seems to want us to just go buck wild breaking the seal. And I'm also a little confused about why the Dreamers pulled us in to the dream world when that just seemed to grant us a great opportunity to get this big fated weapon in our hands. Or maybe it was just a manifestation of our PC's own dream logic? His will to fight and escape? The exact nature of our PC is the absolute biggest question in the game to me right now.

Nat theorised that our PC might be some husk or remnant of the Hollow Knight commemorated in the statue, and that feels like a good guess, but I'm not sure that's actually right. Since Hornet seems to understand a lot about us and our nature, as well as the city's history, and would probably recognise if that were the case? I think if we were the reincarnation of OG Hollow Knight or whatever, she wouldn't have had such a disdainful initial attitude towards us in the beginning. I remember something about "two voids" mentioned once, and when Nat finally died to something we got to see the ghost thing, which has been called our "regrets", but yeah for now I'm left feeling like I got no real clue what it's supposed to actually mean and how much of it is plot significant versus game mechanics. But it feels like they're trying to make even those game mechanics still refer to diagetic stuff that's supposed to be actually happening in the story. Is it not normal to be able to suck up soul energy from killing stuff? Is that something fairly unique to our PC? Is that the nature Hornet was talking about when she said "a being like you" or whatever the exact quote was, way back then? But then other creatures have got to use magic, like that early NPC who first taught us the hadouken. So I don't know. That's my biggest question right now, personally.

Bifauxnen fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Apr 28, 2021

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


pointlessone posted:

This type of storytelling needs to force the player into activating mandatory plot reveals via the Dream Nail / Scan Visor / Telepathy somehow, and to be honest, Hollow Knight isn't great at it. This last episode, Nat got to one of the major map marked McGuffins and got virtually no story reveals.

As someone still following along blind here, I gotta say I found the lack of any fanfare or plot dumps or even a boss fight with Lurien was awesome at setting a mood to make the whole thing feel extremely eerie.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Jen X posted:

I really love the Abyss, it's probably my second favorite area in the game behind the city of tears

the atmosphere is incredibly good

Yeah this is my favourite episode of the LP so far. There's just so much happening now, and this place dumps so much info on you just from how it looks, and what it must all mean. Taking a goddamn bath in this creepy fountain of soul sludge is one hell of a visual.
Oh and one other reason it's my favourite episode is cause when my main job around here is plopping text on stuff, I nerd out surprisingly hard over extremely subtle differences in font effects :v:

I still don't have all the story pieces put together yet, but the overall picture is looking pretty :stonk:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


C-Euro posted:

I think there's an argument to be made about which ending is the "good" ending in this game but obviously that's a discussion for another time.

I love having Quirrell fight alongside you for that boss, the team-up moments in this game are very rare but very satisfying. When I saw him standing outside the Archive the first time I played this game, I was so worried that I was going to have to fight him.

Same! I was worried there'd be some awful twist coming up. But then when he joined in the fight, that's one of the most exciting moments I've felt watching the game so far. I was just so happy! :3:

Now that I've seen one ending, this sure doesn't seem like a good one. The timescales here are really fuzzy, but the Hollow Knight's original seal couldn't have even lasted all that long in the grand scheme of things, if Quirrel and the Last Stag are still around to have the time of the kingdom's downfall still in their living memory. Our seal seems like a pretty weak bandaid.

But there's obviously still a lot more to find out, and a lot of nooks and crannies left to explore. And the Hollow Knight boss fight sure was cool to watch. I have absolutely loved every bit of this game's aesthetic, and the OG Hollow Knight himself has so much eerie style. The bit where he just stabs himself over and over was so unnerving in the best way.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


One thing I've been wondering, since Tea's mentioned a powerup that lets you go through acid... if you can get to the teacher that way instead, and you don't use the shade cloak, that means you could open the black egg temple and get an ending without ever visiting the Abyss at all?

That seems like it would make the ending feel a lot different, to go in without that perspective. Would it be the same ending? Figure it can't hurt to ask since we're past that point already.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Dareon posted:

Not sure we're quite there yet. We've seen the place of our birth and there are some implications as to how we came about, but no one's said explicitly what the origin and purpose of the Knight and ourself is.

The how part definitely still seems like a big mystery to me. The entrance to the Abyss did mention that stuff about the Vessel though, and the "refuse and regret of its creation", so that's already implied enough to guess that all our Vessel Buddies were made for this. Of course I'm still not 100% on what "this" is, exactly.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Hidingo Kojimba posted:

Like Space Jump, Marmu is all about timing.

This is why Nat does not share my love of Necrodancer :cheeky:

Pretty sure Marmu and a lot of other stuff in this game would totally kick my rear end, though.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I remember Tea mentioning there s some other non-Deepnest, non-Abyss area that gave him a stronger reaction of being uncomfortable?

For me, it's the leadup to the junk pit. I can deal with the spiders and all, but those maggoty grubs and eggs auuuuugh it's SO gross

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I've been debating this stuff with Nat too since I tend to have a more Yorkshire Tea taste in games. Getting lost and finding your way again, being a detective for environmental storytelling, even that feeling of quiet and loneliness that makes the rare encounters you do have feel more significant, these are all things I also enjoy. So I've been having a much more generous reaction to things like fighting the same bosses again in dream versions. It seems to make narrative sense to me just fine, since the dream states are obviously very central to the plot. We've fought Warrior Dreams which were already dead when we got there, but these bosses who are still alive can be fought again now that we turned them into Warrior Dreams! :v: And digging deeper into the mysteries of all these dreams around the whole kingdom feels like it makes sense to me, as part of the route to a more complete ending.

That said, a couple more hints tastefully scattered around surely wouldn't hurt.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I just wanted to randomly let the thread know that I got the game when it was on sale and I'm actually playing it myself now! Doing up the latest banners and getting all hype for this late game stuff finally made me cave in. I love everything about this game's aesthetic so much, I just want to wander around it at my own pace, and read all the Hunter journals, and dream nail everything... :3:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Reveilled posted:

EDIT: Also I love Tea complaining that if there's one thing you should have learned by now, it's that you need to pay attention.

Yeah what's he even on about, Nat found the shiny thing just fine! :angel:

I did watch it over a couple times to spot the creepy face, is there anything else to really spot if you wait and look around some more? Still got no idea yet what to really make of this blue stuff, as an overall thing

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Tenebrais posted:

One more thing for your to-do list: get the rest of the charms! There's only three left and the fact you've got this far without ever picking up deep focus is oddly distressing to me.

In my own playthrough I just found a different charm that Nat had managed to miss somehow, Glowing Womb. Man that was freaky to get to on a late night game session. :gonk: Especially when my Crossroads hasn't got fully infected yet, so it was great eerie foreshadowing of where it was getting started.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I've managed to stumble upon a couple more things Nat hasn't got to yet in my playthrough! Like Failed Champion, and the Collector's Map! (unless he has just got these over the weekend recording session and I haven't seen it just yet :cheeky:)

And I've been having fun dream nailing everything, though there's some enemies that seem like way too much of a pain even with Dream Wielder equipped. I'm sure there's some lunatics out there who've managed to dream nail a belfly or the infected mantis enemies, but that will probably not be me.

I'm pretty close to 1800 essence now but Lost Kin is hard, so I hope I can scrape my way there without having to kill it. I'm real excited to head back to the Abyss after that cause when I first got there myself, I remembered now that the big statue holding the Birdbath From Hell seemed to have a similar kind of mindshield effect on it....

One other thing from the Abyss I've been thinking about a lot is the Lifeblood area again. I haven't opened it myself yet to get a proper review of it, but I mean just the area with the blue stone where you have to unlock it. The other lifeblood areas scattered around the world mostly have nice pretty butterflies, but in that one section in the Abyss, it has those veins, with the little globules growing off them and it's freaking me out how they look like palette swapped versions of the fully infected areas. What could that even imply?

Is the whole lifeblood phenomenon a similar class of thing to the plague, just more benign? Why does it express itself differently in the Abyss? Why is it even present in the Abyss? And what is the stone?

These questions are driving me nuts, but in a good way.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Tenebrais posted:

I'm also going to agree on the grimmkin enemies being unsatisfying to fight. They just play contrary to the mechanics of Hollow Knight. Nothing else in the game maintains its screen position without collision.

That's a much more concise way to describe what I wanted to complain about too. It feels so unnatural and videogamey in a bad way. In my playthrough I haven't even beat one of the first batch yet. I saw the first one do that and immediately went "oh gently caress this, I'll do it later. Much later."

I'm pretty sure that's the real thing annoying Nat and not the platforms or verticality or anything, just look at how Nat murders everything else in the room, or everything else in those spike-floor aerial Colosseum fights, just fine with few complaints.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


The specific number doesn't matter as much imo, as whether or not Hoppy Boi is dethroned

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Ok here is my latest Hollow Knight lore theory now that I'm attempting the White Place myself:

The King is basically that one goon who put a bunch of dumb poo poo in his house, like the loose pebbles all around the bathtub, in the belief that it would impress the chicks

Except the pebbles are buzzsaws

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Aaaaaaaargh I've been trying to see if I could get to some more stuff before Nat but it's tough!

I made it through the White Palace okay (and did more stuff in the king's throne room) and had a go at just the first room of Path of Pain as long as I was there anyway, but gave up on that pretty quick. :cheeky: I really want to get 2400 essence, but Lost Kin beats the crap outta me.

Now my big thing I'm trying to do is beat THE RADIANCE and huh, that is not what I expected the creature behind the yucky explosive acid goo plague to look like! This appears to be the "blazing kin" mentioned in the throne room's hidden flavour text. With that "kin" idea in mind, the spreading-its-wings moment actually reminded me a lot of the Monarch Wings, and on further reflection it also looks a lot like the run of the mill Hallownest seals! So if the King is basically this White Wyrm, I guess it could have a more classic fire wyrm in the family too, right? Does all this whole story just boil down to a leadership dispute? Or is this some Fight Club poo poo? I have some other little threads in the back of my mind, like from when I went to go back and talk to the White Lady some more, but I'll think about them more in depth once I actually get the new ending.

But that's easier said than done, hey. I've been having such a tough time that I even got my house all clean by doing a chore in between each death :v: I took a break to go do the Grey Mourner quest, which I beat using Tea's advice. (and on my way through Blue Lake I found that sweet moment with Quirrel, it's so cool they even make an achievement out of it :3:) So now I at least got the last mask which is enough to let me take one more hit. So now in the wee hours of the night, I came up with a new charm loadout to give it another big serious try.

My usual preferred boss fight/colosseum setup is MEGA NAIL (long nail + mark of pride) to make it as easy as possible for me to hit things. Or maybe swap in quick slash to just slam in as many hits as possible. But none of those seemed necessary for this fight, since dude's always just casually floating there and easy to hit, it's just dodging all the poo poo in the meantime. And even though it's easy to get hits in, having to hop up to do it makes Quick Slash a bit pointless. And by now, I'm so goddamn used to fighting the Hollow Knight that I figured (correctly) I didn't need any longer nail at all to get through his section. So now I'm using Deep Focus and Shape of Unn! (plus Unbreakable Strength but that just goes without saying) This setup was a winner, and finally I got to a totally new stage of the fight...!! ...where now I gotta jump around on platforms and can't just nudge myself left and right a bit to heal up :negative:


Oh that reminds me though, I got a fun screenshot I really like from just looking down first, before starting the challenge for the first time. Oh hey there, roiling void, how ya guys doin.

Anyway, it's been so fun actually exploring the world myself, that having watched Nat do most things first hasn't spoiled my enjoyment at all. So if I gotta watch him get the ending for me it's not a big deal. But it was very cool to have some surprises for myself, when I first saw Hornet standing outside the Black Egg, and when she showed up for the assist :3:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


(spends so long writing up a big spoiler trip report that she doesn't notice there's a new episode post)

Oh but yeah I'm still not touching the Grimmkin stuff, gently caress that lol

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Aw man I am so eager to dive into lore discussion! But I've only looked a couple early spoiler replies, I'm gonna hold off on those bigger looking ones till either me or Nat gets to a new ending.

It's nice to still think it through myself a bit longer and still be able to come up with junk like "Fight Club poo poo"

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Apropos of nothing (except me drunkposting rn), Eternal Emilitia is the best NPC, discuss

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Ghost Stromboli posted:

Well I guess there's a reason the charm from the elder grub has the word "Elegy" in the name...

When I saw this in my own playthrough I had pretty much the exact same reaction as Nat: MURDER

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Ooh yes now that this episode has gone live I can finally open the loreposting floodgates! :dance:

I've been sitting on this post for a while cause soon after writing up my last big spoiler effort post, I had a good sleep then finally beat the Radiance right away on my next try. Then while I was on such a roll, I had a go at Zote and barely pulled through after a few tries. So I got to see the 2400 essence thing too!

I figured that was the point I'd be ok with finally hitting the wikis to see all the things I'd missed. But before I got all caught up in absorbing the internet hivemind's observations, I wanted to properly write up some of my overall game thoughts, along with my own best wacko theories.

When I talked to the White Lady some more, she mentioned her bindings being her own decision. And that she felt a strong urge to breed and reproduce. Her bindings obviously resemble the ones all the beings in Godhome wear. So this seems to be implying a widely accepted cultural thing for "higher beings" that, literally or symbolically or both, shows their wish to focus on higher thoughts than just base survival and reproduction.

That state of base survival, or the lack of higher sentience, is associated with darkness. Many bugs show this more natural state of being when you dream nail them, having only default messages of simple things like "kill... hurt", "eat when", or most crucially: "dark... safe", "light... danger". (great segue there from Tenebrais a few posts up) Staying concealed in the dark is a crucial survival skill for bugs, but it also provides symbolic emphasis on how the "light" and sentience of these higher beings is something unnatural to bugs.

But portraying bugs as mindless and unthinking isn't totally right either. All through the game, I was thinking about ants and bees (or the Zero Escape favourite, termites). And how, despite not thinking in the way we humans think, bugs can have their own proper civilizations. This contrast is best shown in the failed tramway. The Deepnest exemplifies a natural bug civilization that rejects the unnatural impositions of outside divine intelligence. Bugs in their natural state can still create amazingly complex structures, or in cases like ants, even exhibit farming or toolmaking behaviours. But a fully mechanical vehicle, or something as complex as a machine that plays recorded music? Those are products of a much more human style of intelligence.

So even if we cast the Radiance as a great evil, bringing its light to the bugs to forcibly enslave their will, and cast the King as an opposing hero, bringing his light to bugs so they can gain their own individual sentience... there is still an uneasiness there, suggesting that the civilization of Hallownest itself, and the worship of its King, may not necessarily be an inherent good. This is where I started thinking more about the Hunter.

The Hunter shows strong individualist sentience while still reveling in the natural world of "kill or be killed", and showing great disdain for how weak and coddled bugs became as they were 'civilized' by Hallownest. When we meet the most truly devout worshippers of the King though, the Hunter doesn't have quite the same level of vitriol as he does for the rich bugs. He simply likens them to eyes or claws, beings that, no longer having any will of their own, become mere extensions of the King's own body. In their case this is presumably by choice, but even so, things are starting to sound a little bit more similar to the Radiance.

Another particular quote from the Hunter was very evocative to me here. Describing one of the Soul Sanctum gang, he said something about how the bugs of Hallownest tried all kinds of tricks to get rid of the infection... but maybe it was something deep inside themselves, that they could not escape.

So all that gave me the inspiration for my "Fight Club poo poo" theory: What if that idea applied to the king?

The King himself is a pretty small figure compared to that giant freaking cast-off shell we got to explore. Even if the wyrm's death leads to a change to a new form, that's a pretty huge change! And the King is also described as very elusive... So I wondered if the King we briefly see could have actually been more of an avatar for the bugs to interact with on their scale, while the King's true form was something far greater. (actually I still think this bit could be possible, even if the next part is way off)

Since the Radiance with its outstretched wings resembles the main Hallownest seal, I briefly wondered if it was the actual full godly form of the King. The King's devoted followers in the Palace think things like "The King... for us..." which prolly just refers to all the horrible lengths the King was going to for the sake of the kingdom in general, but what if the King was also making some sacrifice of his own? And trying to restrain and bind himself for the sake of Hallownest? This finally brings me back to the White Lady's comments about her bindings and her having such a strong urge to reproduce and propogate herself. What if the King was also fighting something "deep within himself" - the urge to just dominate the lower beings' wills as a god, instead of allowing them their own individual thoughts?

Now of course, referring to this being as blazing "kin" already implies it is a separate being even if they were directly related. And with the Seer mentioning the conflict between worship of Radiance and worship of the King, even before my wiki dive it was pretty explicitly clear that this theory can't be right. "Fight Club poo poo" can get really gimmicky anyway, so it's probably good that it's not the case. But I really had fun being able to just entertain theories like this while I was piecing the bits of worldbuilding together. Here's the next one!

One other totally wrong guess I had, which was also inspired by me being all hung up on that Hallownest Seal, is that maybe the Radiance was worshipped right alongside the King in Hallownest, until things went wrong. The King is building on what came before, right? Maybe he's also trying to work with the other higher beings that are already there as he embarks on this whole idea. But Unn and even the root lady didn't get to be on the crest. What if it's a bigger collaboration than that? What if the "Monarch" wings that also resembled the Radiance meant the Radiance was another full-on Monarch? It's a butterfly pun rather than a moth pun, but close enough, hey? What if the Radiance... was the Queen?!

Now okay, the White Lady sitting there in the Queen's Gardens seems at first glance like she's supposed to be the Queen. But I could've sworn I'd heard people talk about the Queen also being gone or dead just like the King, or how she used to hang out in the Gardens. Marmu I particularly remember talking about the Queen coming back, when mate, she's still right there and doesn't seem like she's going away anytime soon! In fact, speaking of not moving around much, Marmu also talks about the Queen teaching him to fly. That sounds more like something you'd expect a moth to do than a root lady! So maybe the White Lady was a more recent partner, and that "union of higher beings" only happened after the fallout with the Radiance..... or it could have helped prompt the falling out with the Radiance. This theory I actually still thought had legs for a while, before I did my wiki dive and found a bunch more obscure evidence hidden away that rubs in how the White Lady was definitely the Queen. But yeah, it was fun as hell to try and figure it all out myself in the meantime.

The thing that confused me most in the game, both before and after the wiki dive, is the Lifeblood place in the Abyss. I can get the Lifeblood being its totally own thing, a weird different type of alternate higher being that's out there with no relation to the others. But why is there that parallel between the veins of the infection resembling the veins of lifeblood? Also the lightseeds and lifeseeds? That part nags at my brain a lot, wanting to force some kind of connection. But I think I'll give it a rest for now and just let everything sink in, and wait for Nat to stream more Godhome stuff.

I really love this game a lot, y'all

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

im ahead due to the patreon but jesus christ tea look what you’ve created

It was really weird watching Nat finally go back to fight the Hollow Knight again and actually struggle slightly, on his way to oneshot the Radiance. Cause I'd fought the Hollow Knight so many times by then I knew his routine inside out and was like, "man I could do this fight so much better", it was such a rare unusual feeling lol

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Seems pretty anti-climactic to shoot for that on purpose first time, though. Just following through in the cool big moment when Hornet shows up is the way to go.

The "sit on your rear end not dream nailing" ending is just a little variant, really.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Alxprit posted:

Mister Mushroom is one of those things I don't feel bad for people looking up a guide for. Not only is the association with Spore Shroom not intuitive, but the hints you get from the plaque are as cryptic as his own words at times. They all make sense, by the end, but bah.

I like him though. Him and his big nose. Might be the only character in the game with a big nose. Very nice.

I found the plaque with Spore Shroom ok by myself, but that might have been helped along by watching Nat play through a lot of stuff already. I had a sense that this wasn't some plot gated thing like the Abyss with the King's Brand, so maybe it needed some more random experimentation to do something with it.

Once I read the poem though, I had NO idea what it was on about and didn't think about Mister Mushroom at all, no.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Oh that looks great!

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Alxprit posted:

some lore-based reward for doing all the boss fights on one-hit radiant difficulty

I love this game to bits but fuuuuuuuuuuuck that

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Wait what's the problem everyone's got with Markoth? I didn't think he was unusually hard or frustrating.

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Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Alxprit posted:

someone please edit the Absolute Radiance title card to say Absolute Bastard

your wish is my command!

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