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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Thanks for making this thread it is much needed! I occasionally mess around in Fusion and it's relatively easy, but I definitely still draft faster by hand. Is Revit pretty much just architecture or would it be useful for someone drawing furniture/cabinets?

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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


This is a 'what program should I use I only want to learn one' question, but basically, which one of these danged things should I invest the time and money into?

I run a very small (like me and sometimes another guy) woodworking business and have always done my drafting by hand but I need to get on the CAD bandwagon because I know eventually I'm going to need to get on the CNC bandwagon. I mostly do furniture, a lot of turned/lathe stuff, a lot of it is more curved/carved, not just cabinet boxes. I would like something that can make decent looking renderings to show clients, as well as normal dimensioned 3 view drawings and can also spit out a parts/cut list. I would also like it to not cost thousands of dollars. I also don't want to invest a bunch of time learning XYZ and then have it die in 5 years or whatever.

I've messed about a bit with the free Fusion360 and it sort of mostly does what I need? It is not so great at generating cut lists or anything like that unless I remember to label and dimension every single part in the drawing. I could grumpily afford to pay for an actual license if most of the problems people have with it are with the personal use license. I was all excited about Solidworks until I read the last page of this thread and it seems like maybe that's not such a great route. Would Rhino do what I need, or is it going to be really clunky when I just need to draw some square cabinet boxes? I've played with Blender a bit and it was fun and relatively intuitive, but I didn't think it would translate well to 'dimensioned drawings.' What the heck is Revit?

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Is 'tell me how much force it will take to make this table tip-over' a think the simulations in Fusion 360 can do? I've gotten handy enough with it that I bought the paid subscription for work, but I keep getting some error whenever I try to solve the simulation I've created.

It's something dumb with the program not installing Nastran that I'm sure is solvable, but after about 5 clean installs it still won't try to solve the simulation and I'd love to know if what I'm trying to do will even work.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Thanks for the info. I haven't done any physics since high school AP physics uh....15 years ago?

Here's an end-on drawing of the table and base:


The table will weigh like 250lb all told, the center of mass is 18.75" up from the bottom along the centerline. How much downward force at one edge would it take to lift the opposite edge of the base? Basically, how many pounds of someone using the edge of the table to stand up/lean on is going to make it move and feel unsteady? Is there a generic formula/equation for this, or some way to run it in a simulation?

By the calculation someone mentions here: https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=154454 I get a horizontal force of ~90lb tipping the table over, which is useful, but doesn't give a great picture of what force it will take to knock all the glasses on the table over.

I'm gonna cross post this in the stupid questions thread I guess?

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


oXDemosthenesXo posted:

This iss almost exactly a question that I was asked in an interview almost 10 years ago and got wrong lol. Still got the job at least and it made me much more aware of how important fundamentals are.

So what you're describing is a "statics" problem. The bottom edge of the base is a fulcrum that the table will rotate around if it gets into a tipping state. Keep in mind that if you're using the software to do a static analysis (nothing moves), and it gets into a state where things do move, it'll usually poo poo itself because the math assumes no motion.

Anyway, here's a diagram of your situation, only showing the right hand side of the table because that's all that matters. Note that for the purposes of this calculation the heights of both the CoG and load don't matter because the CoG force is straight down (gravity) and I'm assuming the load on the table top is vertical as well:




I'm treating this as a torque balance problem, so the equation that describes that diagram is:

[250lbs] * [10.8in] = [x lbs] * [12.2in]

When the two side of the equation are balanced, "x" is force it takes to start tipping the base.

x = (250/10.8) / (12.2)

x = ~221 lbs

So, at 221 lbs of force straight downwards on the edge of the table top, the base will begin to lift. If you kept applying this force or higher, the table would continue to rotate until it's CoG was no longer support by the base, at which point the whole thing would tip over. Its a little more complicated than that though because the lever arm lengths change depending on the angle of tip.
Thank you! That’s extremely helpful and simple. Does it matter that some of the weight of the top is out there towards the edge and not actually over the COG?

Would figuring the weight of the top from the edge to halfway to the fulcrum, subtracting that from the overall weight at the COG and then subtracting the same amount from from the weight necessary to move the table? Like say from edge to halfway between fulcrum weighs 50lb, so now there is only 200lb at the COG, so we get (200x10.8)/(12.2) = 177lb, and then there is 50lb already hanging out there to it only needs 120lb?

E: I just realized probably none of that matters because your drawing is only for half the table and whatever weight is out near the edge of the table on the side of your drawing is balanced by an equal amount of tabletop on the other side of the table and I guess that’s why COG works out and we can forget all that other stuff, lol

E2: As a follow up question out of curiosity, would the height of the COG matter if the force were being applied horizontally at the edge of the table? Like if someone were trying to shove it over?

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Aug 26, 2021

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Thanks that makes sense. Fulcrum is all that matters to get it moving, COG is what determines where it tips over once it starts moving.

Please feel free to make a basics of engineering thread, lol. You explain all this really well!

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Does FreeCAD do modelling and stuff too? For some reason I thought it was 2d only.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


biracial bear for uncut posted:

I mean, they have a website bragging about the features they have.

https://www.freecadweb.org/

Yeah sorry I should have googled first, posted later.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Has anyone found a good youtube or something that explains what the differences between components/bodies/etc. are to someone very new to 3d modelling? Same for what 'good' workflow looks like? Or if there is a good little tutorial thing I've missed somewhere? I can draw stuff sort of okay in Fusion and I've watch lots of youtubes but I mostly just bump around in the program until I find a button that does the thing I need and I know the way I'm doing it is not at all the best way.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


I'm a bit frustrated in Fusion, probably because I'm a dummy. I'm trying to draw a workbench, and am having some problems with components and I think the browser. Here's the thing:

I've got 5 boards, which are all copies (made with the 'Move' tool) of the first board. I would like the two vertical boards to be named 'Apron Boards,' but when I change their name, it changes the name of all of them. Is there any way to make a clean copy of a component that isn't still connected back to the component it is a duplicate of? Like can I just copy it somehow to gently caress around with and not have it change other ones? Similarly, is there a way to move things up a level in the directory? If I go to the body a component is made of, click that and try to make a new component, it is always nested under the original component the body belonged to, which isn't what I want. I want new, clean, unencumbered components that I can make into whole different assemblies!


I think I should not be using components for every single board and just use bodies instead, and have the top, the aprons, legs whatever be components made up of multiple bodies representing boards. The reason I have made them all components is that I would like to use the 'Parts List' tool to generate a cut list-as far as I know that's the only way to get fusion to spit out something like a cut list and it only looks at components, not bodies. Because of that, I'm making each board it's own component labelled with it's dimensions. Is there a better way to do this?


Is there a good 'you're a dummy that is just now colliding with fusion/3d modelling, START HERE' youtube series or soemthing? NYC CNC is great but there stuff seems more focused on CAM which is still a ways away for me, and thye don't seem to have a basics playlist. They do offer a paid program on their website-anyone ever tried that?

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Yooper posted:

You can copy a component and then "Paste New". It will then be independent.



I've run into issues if you just have a body and not components, specifically you can't do joints with bodies, but you can with components.
Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. A bit confusing because the 'paste new' option won't show up if you still have the same component selected which is why I think I never noticed it before.


biracial bear for uncut posted:

Why do they need a separate name if they're all the same size piece of lumber? Just name it "(Width) by (Height) by (Length) Lumber" and use the balloon and bill of material tools to keep track of what is what and where you use it.
Mostly because this is a more general problem I've run into that I wanted to learn to do right, but also the various boards will have holes in different places down the line.


honda whisperer posted:


If you ask on the Autodesk forums they're excellent at answering questions and or pointing to where it's been answered before.

Edit: also worth noting a few tools in fusion will have a drop-down that allow you to select say feature/body/component. The one that comes to mind is the align command. If I upload an assembly that came as a step file, covert to components, and make them a rigid group, align will only move one part unless I set it to component. Then the whole assembly will shift together.
I'm terrified of non-SA forums, but I'm glad to know they are good. They're always the first thing that pops up when I google a problem-I'll try asking there in future!

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


^^That's cool as heck I love your posts^^

Does anyone know if there is a way to make Fusion 360 export 'Component Name' in one cell and the dimensions under 'Bounding Box' from the component properties into separate cells in excel for all components at once? That would sure make generating cut/parts lists a ton easier instead of having to name each component with it's dimensions (which may change as the design changes). It looks like there is a plugin/app thing called Bommer that may do this, anyone tried it?

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Is there any way to sculpt components after you've modelled them in Fusion? I am drawing a chair and it has alot of rounded curves that don't quite fit with a normal fillet or swept profile and I'm trying to see if there is anyway to model them.

Basically, how do I model this:


From this:

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


:siren:
Can folks itt please talk about CAD stuff and not other posters and just generally try to be excellent to each other.

:thanks:

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


If I already have a decent handle on Fusion360, is there any reason to learn sketchup? Does it do anything fusion doesn't do?

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


NewFatMike posted:

No please for the love of God do not use SketchUp. It creates non manifold models. If you’re planning on doing architectural stuff, then maybe.

My use case is a little more architectural I guess, mostly trying to find a quicker/better way of dealing with parts of cabinets etc. that come out of standard 4x8 sheets of plywood. It feels a little clumsy extruding all that out in fusion, but maybe that is actually the easiest/quickest way.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


NewFatMike posted:

Are you doing nesting work against the 4x8 or building actual cabinetry in Fusion with joints and such?

Building actual cabinetry designs out with joints etc. I'm not aware of any plug in that will take those parts and try to nest/optimize them onto a sheet of plywood. I'd love something that will just generate a reliable cutlist without me having to put all the dimensions in the part name, tbh.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Yooper posted:

Practical Machinist is the worst forum ever. Makes GBS look functional.

Interesting, moderate, but not difficult question answered by...

1. "It's not that hard, but why would I tell you?"
2. "Lol, you young kids can't figure anything out! In my day we did it on a sliderule..."
3. "gently caress off, u prbly aint evn in the US. Lik im gunna tel u."

They have a really small and slow but interesting and polite woodworking forum that I like to read occasionally, but it is all extremely boomer, if very skilled and knowledgeable boomer.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Since we’re on the topic of 4x8 CNC routers-anyone have experience with AvidCNC’s stuff? All the woodworking YouTube content creators seem to have them and love them which always makes me suspicious.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


If you cant get a grid or anything, at least throw a tape measure or ruler or something on there. That helps a ton with being able to sort out the distortion.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


some kinda jackal posted:

Hey hole wizards, I continually forget where the cool kids talk about Fusion 360 so hopefully this isn’t too far off base.

What is the F360 workflow to accomplish something like this:



The origin shape is beyond simple, but when I press the inner edge inward, it curves with a convex shape rather than concave. Which makes sense based on what I’m asking it to do, but I’m not sure what a proper way to get a convex “fillet” would be. Or even if that’s the right terminology.

I’m one of those “3 times a year” F360 users, only pulling it out when I want to whip up something quick to 3D print that is easy in my head, but turns into a full day of frustration when I’m not immediately good at this complex application that people spend their careers mastering :sigh:

If you use the fillet tool on an inside corner in will make a concave fillet. You might try that and see if you can make it big enough to cover the whole thing.

Otherwise make a sketch of half the cross section and then Revolve that around the central vertical axis.

Or model a sphere and use that as a tool via the combine command to remove the concave are of your part.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


some kinda jackal posted:

I simplified the example but in my ideal scenario the “hole” isn’t in the centre, which I probably should have mentioned, so revolving would be more difficult. I did pick up on the inside edge fillet thing after you mentioned it, and got exactly what I needed by doing a primary perimeter sketch, extruding it up the thickness of my base, offsetting the exterior and extruding that up the total height I needed, then filleting the joining internal edge. I probably butchered the terminology but thanks for putting me on the right path.
Glad it worked out!

If in future you wanted to do something similar and needed to do it as a revolve because it was a more complex shape, you can make an axis wherever you need it. There are several options under the 'Contruction' menu.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


meowmeowmeowmeow posted:

Does fusion have a sweep tool? That's usually the best way to run a certain profile along a certain path.

Yes it does, and that would probably work too. I've only messed around with sweeps a few times and am still not exactly sure what the 'right' way to use it is. I've had some problems orienting the profile in the right direction and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


DC to Daylight posted:

I don't have too much experience with Fusion, but for most problems I've had with sweeps, the root cause was the path not being perpendicular to the cross section at the point of intersection, so you end up extruding some funky projection of what you intended.

This is exactly the problem I’ve usually had. I wish I could make a single sketch of whatever profile and then sweep it along multiple edges. I would like for example to draw an roundover profile and sweep it along all four edges of a tabletop, but I’ve struggled with being able to do that and wind up redrawing the profile on each edge and funny things sometimes happen in the corners where the two profiles should meet.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


After a whole lot of false starts, I finally figured out how to do spiral reeding in fusion:


It's a real awkward and clunky workaround since fusion doesn't have an easy way to make a helical plane, but I learned some knew tricks and found out about this whole new tab I'd never touched before called 'surfaces'

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


His Divine Shadow posted:

Making an end grain cutting board, it's one component made up of lots of bodies. I basically made one piece of the board, then used a rectangular pattern to make the rest. Fusion made them all look like the cross section of a single tree, which was weird looking.

What I ended up doing was selecting every other row along it's length and rotating it 180 degrees, then I did that again but along the width of the board. Gave it a pretty nice randomized look.

I don't know if there's a better way to this.


At least for woodworking, I've found it best to make every individual piece of wood a component and group those into assemblies, even stuff that will get glued up into a bigger piece of wood. I would have each block of the butcher block be it's own component within the assembly of the top. You can have subassemblies of subassemblies of subassemblies, so don't worry about running out of subassemblies. It just winds up being easier 98% of the time, and fusion will spit out parts lists of components (but not bodies) so if you make everything a component, it can basically give you a cut list. Components are also their own files, so you can export/import components to/from different designs but I don't think you can do that with bodies.

For the appearance part, I think applying an appearance to component applies to the bodies as if they are all one thing, whereas applying the appearance to an assembly applies it to each component individually. If you right click on the component/body and select 'Texture Map Controls' that will let you move things around to get different looking grain. The unfinished 3d/solid wood materials usually look the best as far as showing grain orientation imo.

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 19, 2022

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


I am sure solidworks is vastly superior in some way, but for my little business fusion for $450/yr sure seems like a deal.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Yeah just have like Back Wall as a component >activate that ‘Back Wall’ component>create new component ’Stud’>make pattern using ‘Stud’ component, and it will make every stud in the pattern it’s own new component.

‘Back Wall’ will now a be an assembly or w/e the term is (symbol will change to three little blocks in the tree). If you want to get really organized, instead of using the ‘stud’ component to make the pattern, make a stud component in the ‘stud’ component and use that to make the pattern out of. Then you have an assembly called ‘Studs’ that has all the studs in it and you can collapse that in the tree easily. Similarly, make an assembly for ‘wall sheathing’ or whatever, and then it’s really easy to show/hide things or change materials as a group.

As far as I can tell you can have sub-assemblies of of sub-assemblies ad Infinitum

E: I can’t remember specifics, but there may be times when you don’t want to use the pattern command. I think if you modify the original that everything is patterned off of, it will change all of them? I think it depends on where the changes happen in the timeline. Sometimes Move/Copy > Paste New is better when you want a copy of something but plan to modify one or the other.

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Dec 7, 2022

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Anyone used Shapr3D? A friend has been messing around with it and said it’s super easy and intuitive compared with his limited Solidworks experience.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


oXDemosthenesXo posted:

What does a license for Fusion cost these days? I caved last week and got a 1 year solidworks hobby license because I keep finding reasons to use it. At least this way I only have to have the ~~3DEXPERIENCE~~ once a year.

My professional/small business license is like $4-500/yr? I can't remember off the top of my head. It's not cheap, but it's not terrible and its way more affordable than SOLIDWORKS. I have to say the drawings space is not what I use the most, but it is the part that makes my life easiest, even though it's one of the clunkier parts of F360.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


My mechanic still keeps all his customer records on some ancient DOS program

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Anyone have a recommendation for a LiDAR scanning app for iPhone? Preferably one that easily exports something Fusion can use

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


NewFatMike posted:

What are you intending to do with it?

I went down that road, and it’s pretty much only good for room scale scanning. I couldn’t even get an Xbox controller to appear in any of them.

The next thing is that the data aren’t going to be manifold, so as long as you’re using it for like workshop layout or something, that’s probably about the smallest usable use case. You won’t be able to really do much useful to or with the data (usually a point cloud) itself.

If that all works for your project, I got decent results out of Metascan but it’s paid to export an OBJ or STL. I believe Fusion got similar mesh updates to its kernel that Parasolid one got last year, so it should be groovy.
Basically scan some sort of complex geometry (the underside of my bandsaw) to model dust collection attachments. I've gotten scans into Fusion from Scaniverse, but the scale is way wrong while it seems right in the app. Something that should be 3/8" thick is showing up as less than 1/16". I guess maybe I could design the things and then scale them up in PrusaSlicer based off a known final dimension when I go to to print them?+

E: this is what I can get into fusion, it just thinks that whole thing is 1/4" wide instead of like 12" wide


e2: I guess as a workaround I can take screenshots of the model and import/scale them and use them as canvases behind my sketches

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 23, 2023

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


honda whisperer posted:

That scan looks great and scaling it should get you where you want to go.

When you pull a mesh into fusion always set the units to mm. I bet it'll be a lot closer.

Been doing a similar thing but with the creality lizard.




It's still hosed up in mm too. How would I scale the mesh? I have never worked with meshes at all.

e: duh, the button that says 'scale mesh'

e2: thanks for the help I think I got it figured out. Somehow I need to make this broken mesh into a body so I can project it into sketches I guess?

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 24, 2023

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


In Fusion is there a way to repeat what you just did, including all the settings?

For instance, I made a sketch of an elevation of some cabinets, and then need to extrude all the pieces back 16," with each piece being its own component. Selecting them all and extruding them as 'New Component' will sometimes work, but it well let two adjoining pieces Join into one body. Instead I right-click, Repeat Extrude, and have to select 'New Component' and type in the distance every time. Is there a way so that when I right-click, Repeat Extrude for it to be pre-populated with whatever my last extrude settings were?

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


What’s the advantage of OnShape over Fusion? Costs 3x as much for a commercial license and seems much less fully featured. No rendering in the basic ($1500/yr) license and no CAM either. Are there more features at the free level than free Fusion? Isn’t a lot of folks’ big complaint about Fusion that it stores everything in the cloud and hates if you try to work offline (but you still can) where it sounds like Onshape is totally cloud/browser based and won’t do anything without internet?

I don’t do real machining or fancy product design, but Fusion has so far done most everything I need it to (and I know is capable of a lot more). It isn’t cheap for a small business, but I do feel paying for the full set of features has been worth it, whereas if it was priced like onshape it wouldn’t be worth the money for me.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Thanks for all the info. I guess because generating drawings was one of the main things I needed CAD for, I upgraded to a paid subscription fairly quickly so all the Autodesk drama didn't affect me much, though I do remember hearing about it. And I can't be too mad about my very powerful FREE software becoming slightly less useful when it's still free. They moved to a web-based log-in system for F360 recently and I was kind of grumpy about that but then it turns out it's actually maybe better since chrome will store my password and that's been about the extent of my Autodesk fuckery experience. I won't say the AutoDesk training stuff has been fantastic, but there is a ton of youtube etc. content for it. My buddy was trying to teach himself SW and bounced off it because there wasn't nearly as much free training stuff out there. I guess if you can afford SW, you can also afford to send someone for professional training or they learned it in engineering school or w/e.

I didn't think I would really use the renderings workspace in Fusion that much, but it's actually something I've wound up using quite a bit to show things to clients and the 3d materials work really well with that. Surprising to me that for 3x the price OnShape doesn't have that feature when it seems to my not-computer brain it shouldn't be that hard to do.

What makes anyone think OnShape won't also start to roll back free features? They gotta make money too. I remember SW making it harder to get a free education version or loving with their free/cheap offering recently too.



E4C85D38 posted:

I really want to like OnShape, but I spend a bunch of time without connectivity, and even "check in constantly but work offline to sync later" is a huge step up.
Yeah this is reasonably important to me as well. I am usually online when I'm drawing, but I definitely want the ability to not be.

E:

NewFatMike posted:

That’s a massive bummer — I’ve been meaning to but I’ll try to prioritize Alibre CAD for a nice nodelocked software to test out this summer. Inshallah it’s good!
Please do report back. Something that isn't a SaaS model and works well with CAM would be great, and it looks like that's what they're aiming for.

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jul 14, 2023

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


I'm feeling really dumb in Fusion and I think something must have changed in the latest update. In sketches, my fractional inches always used to round to 32nds or 64ths and I feel like I could control that as a preference somehow, but now suddenly it is going all the way down to 256ths or 128ths if applicable and my brain just doesn't think in those units. I can still make it round to whatever unit in the drawings interface, but not in sketches.

My unit settings:

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Yooper posted:



It is part of the Document settings in the drawing itself.
I figured out how to change it in the drawings workspace like you show, but am still having the issue in sketches in the design workspace.

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Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Spaghett posted:

It's pretty sick that you use a flattened, crumpled piece of paper as a monitor
For some reason imgur was not wanting to upload a screenshot from my computer but would happily upload a terrible pic from my phone.

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