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Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


If you know Regret and use it when someone shuts you up, that's usually enough to save you, although you'd better actually shut up for a while afterwards. A few characters are talkative enough that you can sometimes use Shut Up on them as well.

Thuryl fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Mar 22, 2021

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Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

I got this game because everyone was raving about it.

So far:
hate the graphics
music is annoying due to extreme repetition
and getting annoyed at being eliminated really fast. My last 5 rounds eliminations were 3, 2, 2, 1, then 4. The "1" I didn't even do anything, I just got piled on out of nowhere. I know someone has to get voted off in the first round but I had 11 votes against me. Hadn't seen anything like that up to that point.

I do like how fast the loops are. But this seems like a phone game.

It seems incredibly overpriced at $25.

What am I missing that has everyone so excited?

Haifisch
Nov 12, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!





Taco Defender

If you're getting eliminated that early that often, your charm stat sucks and/or you're doing stuff that makes the AI hate you(talking too much, picking on characters that are really good at turning everyone against you, being bad at lying while gnosia).

A lot of strategic options open up as you unlock skills and build your stats, and in general the game makes more sense as you learn how each character operates.

I agree that the music could stand a lot more variety, though.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


To be honest, I think the actual mafia game part is just okay even once you're good at it; the actions and dialogue get pretty repetitive. The main draw is the characters and story scenes.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



I got like 160~ loops out of it before I finished and 25 dollars was absolutely not too much for that.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005



I can understand not liking various aspects of this game, but the visuals are great and I'm baffled that someone would dislike them.

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

Ytlaya posted:

I can understand not liking various aspects of this game, but the visuals are great and I'm baffled that someone would dislike them.

To me they are kind of gross. They look like something out of japanese porn comics. The fairy girl and underboobs and the one making all those weird sex faces that seem to be all the rage right now. Yuck. Plus the backgrounds look really cheap. The game is way old by now, but 999 looked way better in pretty much every way.

Mr. Trampoline
May 16, 2010


Feels really good when you get opportunities to use Don't Be Fooled and Don't Vote and they work. Feels even better when you dodge a freeze by Gnosia Yuriko gunning for you with a Grovel, and then coming back and voting her out the next day.

IceBorg
Oct 23, 2012

I KINDA DOUBT THAT!


A tip related to a early character skill that I learned.

Some characters even when not Gnosia will sometimes not say that they are Human when propted to thanks to their personality: Renman is shy, Yuriko says she hates being human and SQ is troll.

And if you are Gnosia and get propted to say you are Human if you donīt wanna risk it since your stats are low you can wait to see if one of your teamates or a Bug stop the process and sacrifice then

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


Mr. Trampoline posted:

Feels really good when you get opportunities to use Don't Be Fooled and Don't Vote and they work. Feels even better when you dodge a freeze by Gnosia Yuriko gunning for you with a Grovel, and then coming back and voting her out the next day.

I had to use Don't Vote every day for like 3 days in a row on Raqio after they were outed as a confirmed enemy and I had to keep them alive for an event and it worked shockingly well. I'd kinda given up on that run but somehow people kept listening to me.

HenryEx
Mar 24, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...


Grimey Drawer

ChikoDemono posted:

Shige is the best because if you are nice to him, heíll defend you until he eventually gets iced.

Been experimenting with games and the 15 crew + 6 Gnosia is fun (as gnos because Iím a chump). Well, itís fun until your crew consists of Shige, Gina, and Stella. My performance is at like 1; so if I say a word, Iím iced immediately.

Just don't lie :v:. Don't doubt anyone you know to be human, and don't defend anyone you know to be Gnosia. Occasionally defend someone you want to ally with, let your team mates do the heavy lifting at the start and be inconspicuous until the numbers are thinned enough that you can target people and have a few people who'll come to your help.

Waltzing Along posted:

To me they are kind of gross. They look like something out of japanese porn comics. The fairy girl and underboobs and the one making all those weird sex faces that seem to be all the rage right now. Yuck. Plus the backgrounds look really cheap. The game is way old by now, but 999 looked way better in pretty much every way.

Comet was a huge problem with me at the start, too, and there's a few other character designs that are pretty absurd (Raqio's outfit is overcompensating something fierce, but it makes sense for the character), but i eventually got used to Comet, if only because she turned out to be my favorite personality despite the design.

I have no idea what a fairy girl is, and if you're really seeing someone making weird sex faces in this game, i think that's more of a you problem :confused:

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


I can only assume that by "fairy girl" they mean Raqio, who is neither a fairy nor a girl but I can at least see how you could get there

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


Waltzing Along posted:

To me they are kind of gross. They look like something out of japanese porn comics.
what japanese porn comics are you reading

TheWorldsaStage
Sep 10, 2020



I hate Comet's hat with such an unnecessarily raging fury. Also wish there was like one more hunky non twinky guy in the cast but eh.

Gameplay wise I absolutely love this game and the song that plays during the map is unexpectedly haunting.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


Sooo I may or may not have gone on a massive binge and managed to reach the true ending. 140 loops and level 141 though I have a lot of Exp saved since I'm still missing 3 skills, one I'm sure it's Raqio/Yuriko's Retaliate, and wanted to see if I got them to get the stats up.

And there's just one thing I want to say about the ending (WARNING, MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD, DON'T HOVER AT YOUR RISK)




Of course Kurkrushka is so good at playing Gnosia, she's their loving leader! :argh:




All in all, game ended up slightly shorter than expected, but I definitively enjoyed it, and it's cool you can use it as a endless, customizable Werewolf simulator (even if once your stats reach a point you end up dominating games easily).

Princey
Mar 22, 2013


I binged through to the end last night and watched the true end this morning, all without ever learning how to respec my stats.

Game was good!

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

Thuryl posted:

I can only assume that by "fairy girl" they mean Raqio, who is neither a fairy nor a girl but I can at least see how you could get there

Yeah. A couple games later I got their little scene. I have to say I do like the inclusion and brief explanation of a non-binary person.

The Japanese porn stuff is Ahegao, apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahegao Mainly SQ.

Waltzing Along fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 22, 2021

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


Waltzing Along posted:

The Japanese porn stuff is Ahegao, apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahegao Mainly SQ.
... what

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



SQ is a hosed up weirdo.

Don't think her gnosia sprite looks like whatever this you're trying to equate it with though

Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 22, 2021

psychoJ
Feb 24, 2011

Everything comes from a regional processing and distribution center in outer space


Ibram Gaunt posted:

SQ is a hosed up weirdo.
yeah. she rocks

also how the heck do you compare the art style to hentai honestly. this game has some of the more unique character designs i've seen in a while

psychoJ fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 22, 2021

Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>


Waltzing Along posted:

Yeah. A couple games later I got their little scene. I have to say I do like the inclusion and brief explanation of a non-binary person.

The Japanese porn stuff is Ahegao, apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahegao Mainly SQ.

lmfao

Haifisch
Nov 12, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!





Taco Defender

All this discussion of creepy art and nobody's talking about Shigemichi. Dude doesn't even wear pants! No wonder he always gets voted for deep freeze in the first couple days. :v:

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akanbe

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Waltzing Along posted:

To me they are kind of gross. They look like something out of japanese porn comics. The fairy girl and underboobs and the one making all those weird sex faces that seem to be all the rage right now. Yuck. Plus the backgrounds look really cheap. The game is way old by now, but 999 looked way better in pretty much every way.
999 had a couple dozen people working on the graphics while Gnosia had a single artist. I think Gnosia has a great aesthetic but it's not going to have the slick animations of something like 999.

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."


If there's one thing that irritates me about this game, it's playing as the AC Follower role. If you do your job right (i.e. take suspicion off of the Gnosia, impersonate an important role, etc.), then you get outed as an enemy and killed. It's actually really good play in a real social deduction game, but what sucks in this game is that you are supposed to survive, and doing the "correct" sacrifice play is actually bad for you, even though it's good for the AI.

404notfound
Mar 5, 2006

stop staring at me



What's the difference between the commands seek agreement and exaggerate? On the surface they seem to do the same thing, but keyed off of different stats.

Dirk the Average posted:

If there's one thing that irritates me about this game, it's playing as the AC Follower role. If you do your job right (i.e. take suspicion off of the Gnosia, impersonate an important role, etc.), then you get outed as an enemy and killed. It's actually really good play in a real social deduction game, but what sucks in this game is that you are supposed to survive, and doing the "correct" sacrifice play is actually bad for you, even though it's good for the AI.

It would be nice if the game would play out the rest of a loop after your own death, both to satisfy your curiosity (e.g., did they eventually catch on to Sha-Ming?) as well as to allow you to win as a dead AC follower if the gnosia win. I feel like it shouldn't be that hard if you've already got the AI in place to simulate individual players, but I guess I don't know anything about how the game is coded v:shobon:v

Oh, speaking of how the game is coded, there was this early-game story screenshot, and it kinda made me wonder if this actually represents how the data of the game is stored, since it looks like it could be an encoding of the important bits of each loop:

Scrap Dragon
Oct 6, 2013

SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!




Thatís my one big complaint with the game, that it doesnít recognize that Mafia is a team game.

Well, that and the fact the that the game is practically unplayable at low charm

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



The looping mechanic does add an inherent "and you must survive" to every role. That was mentioned more in the VN that inspired Gnosia (Raging Loop) but I guess it's kindof just implicit here.

I do still like AC Follower because it's cool to work out who the gnosia are and then deliberately be wrong about it.

404notfound posted:

What's the difference between the commands seek agreement and exaggerate? On the surface they seem to do the same thing, but keyed off of different stats.
I think Exaggerate is more powerful at convincing people in and of itself but Seek is more likely to get people to agree (which then helps convince others)? They seem pretty similar in terms of usage, I've found Seek stronger personally.

HenryEx
Mar 24, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...


Grimey Drawer

Scrap Dragon posted:

Thatís my one big complaint with the game, that it doesnít recognize that Mafia is a team game.

Well, that and the fact the that the game is practically unplayable at low charm

I reached something like level 150 before raising my Charm above 10, and ended the game with Charm at 15

I got cryogenically frozen a total of like 5 times across 165 loops and had no problem directing people (except when i'm bug and Shigemichi is engineer and investiates me day 1 again)

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."


Just played two more rounds as AC Follower. Was killed on the second to last round by Gnosia (and had been signaling to them for the previous few rounds that I was on their side). Was voted out by Gnosia on the last round even after covering like crazy for them for the previous four rounds.

Again, good play on my part in that the Gnosia definitely won (and only won because I was covering for them), but no credit for me because I technically didn't make it to the end. Very frustrating.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


So yeah, you should really check out the How to Play section because goddamn not only is it pretty indepth, it explains how hate and likeability work, and why you should pump Stealth and Charm ASAP cause those are the stats tthat make it no one hates you or target you.

Been playing with settings in postgame, and 2 main things I got out of it is 1) Block Argument is totally worth the 40 charisma requirement, it literally stops all defenses but Seek Help and that can still fail and 2) Once you get full stats you can powerlevel by playing single Gnosia against 15 people with all good roles on and evil roles off, you just need to get the trust of a few characters, claim nothing so you won't eventually lie and roll over everyone since with 30 stats people will love you and follow you, I ended up getting 400000 exp in a single loop (and I need like a tenth of that to level).

Will also check out how likely you can find lies with max Intuition to decide if it's good or dump stat.


Also yeah, AC Follower sucks because of that, and there aren't even any special events for surviving beyond "hey cool, time to murder all"

nachos
Jun 27, 2004

Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


Yes the how to play section is an absolute must read

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."


GiantRockFromSpace posted:

So yeah, you should really check out the How to Play section because goddamn not only is it pretty indepth, it explains how hate and likeability work, and why you should pump Stealth and Charm ASAP cause those are the stats tthat make it no one hates you or target you.

Oh, I have no issues when I'm anything other than AC Follower. You just end up naturally making enemies and/or becoming a scapegoat as AC Follower because, well, that's your job. If you've got to cover for Shigemichi, then you put yourself at a massive risk because of how obvious he is.

Chaotic Flame
May 31, 2009

So...




Yeah, I feel like Gnosia should be able to act like an AC Follower is one of them if they figure it out. I've only played a few games as an ACF but they've not been great.

Scrap Dragon
Oct 6, 2013

SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!




HenryEx posted:

I reached something like level 150 before raising my Charm above 10, and ended the game with Charm at 15

I got cryogenically frozen a total of like 5 times across 165 loops and had no problem directing people (except when i'm bug and Shigemichi is engineer and investiates me day 1 again)

Thatís crazy cause at like sub-20 Charm I couldnít even do clerical stuff like asking Engineers/Doctors to reveal themselves without getting dogpiled, forget doubting people.

Nick Buntline
Dec 20, 2007
Doesn't know the impossible.



Irony Be My Shield posted:

I think Exaggerate is more powerful at convincing people in and of itself but Seek is more likely to get people to agree (which then helps convince others)? They seem pretty similar in terms of usage, I've found Seek stronger personally.

In my experience Seek is stronger specifically because it causes more people to speak up in agreement, which heavily neuters defensive skills like Regret or Retaliate since people who've already spoken up can't then speak up again on defense.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


HenryEx posted:

I reached something like level 150 before raising my Charm above 10, and ended the game with Charm at 15

I got cryogenically frozen a total of like 5 times across 165 loops and had no problem directing people (except when i'm bug and Shigemichi is engineer and investiates me day 1 again)


Scrap Dragon posted:

That’s crazy cause at like sub-20 Charm I couldn’t even do clerical stuff like asking Engineers/Doctors to reveal themselves without getting dogpiled, forget doubting people.


How much Stealth did you have? The deal is Charm controls how much people like/dislike you, but Stealth is what controls the "Hate" you accumulate (or in other words, how much you can do before people want you to Shut Up).

So low Charm makes it people won't like you but high Stealth makes it you can do poo poo without people mistrusting you or Gnosia wanting to murk you.

Chaotic Flame
May 31, 2009

So...




nachos posted:

Yes the how to play section is an absolute must read

This should probably go in the OP

Mega64
May 23, 2008



I'll throw some screenshots up later, unless someone has a gallery or knows of a good write-up or whatever. I'm still early on (17 loops so far), so I don't really have any good advice of my own yet.

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Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

I can't stand Yuriko. I just had one where she was labelled gnosia by setsu. Yuriko confirmed it. I tried to do a vote to get rid of her. Then on the actual vote...she didn't get voted out. I mean, WTF. Ugh.

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