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Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
I'm very angry about accidentally posting a duplicate thread because for whatever reason this one wasn't listed in the Index, so instead I'm going to share with you the story of the time I, the world's tired-est Guardian Angel, and Raqio, the worst logician in the Universe, cold slept almost the entire crew:



Raqio managed to declare themself Definitely Human and Jonas as Definitely Enemy, and then immediately offered to collaborate. Chipie swiftly followed so I figured, right, well, this one's in the bag. Sha-Ming (of course it was Sha-Ming) just kept trying to assassinate Raqio, and I protected them three times in a row as they repeatedly failed to spot the last Gnosia (Kukruska died on day 7). It was literally down to me, them, and Sha-Ming on the last day.

Fedule fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Apr 5, 2021

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Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Hah, I remembered there was a non-binary player but for some reason I thought it was Setsu. Guess it doesn't help that most of the dialogue by volume is written to meticulously avoid having to use pronouns.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Well, I'm sure if there were anyone else left besides my stalwart misguided logician companion who had my back if absolutely nothing else it might've gone that way. What was Sha-Ming gonna do, convince himself to hate me more?

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Yeah, Raqio was the one making big splashy arguments, I was just backing them up sometimes. I guess the Gnosia AI doesn't reason about the Guardian Angel, it just targets whoever it most hates.

I had another unbelievably stupid outcome today when, as Gnosia, we killed Yuriko on Day 1 and Comet helpfully reported her as human. We then spent four days trying to identify which of the remaining Engineers was the real one and which was the Bug, as I had become sure Comet was the Follower. I couldn't figure it out and just took a gamble on framing one of them. As you have probably guessed from reading, Comet was the real Engineer and Yuriko was the Bug.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
lmao got absolutely chumped by 3 gnosia in a crew of 9 because Setsu decided to pre-shank Sha-Ming, and he was the engineer, so it was a wipe on day one when we froze the wrong guy.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

Pollyanna posted:

I think Iím too stupid for this game. :negative: 99% of the time I have no real idea who could possibly be good or bad, especially with no clues to work off of. Iíve done multiple games now where I get ganged up on by two Gnosia and an AC picking off the rest of the party without me being able to tell whoís who.

This feels extremely random. Is there a way to tell what the gently caress is going on?

Get information. Learn personalities.

As Humans, at the beginning, you're going to be starving for details. Wait and watch. Make a note of who immediately starts throwing shade - it might be people on their bullshit but you might see some obvious patterns emerging. If you've got decent intuition, just get people talking, maybe one will slip. Get the Engineer and Doctor to pipe up ASAP; at least one of the liar classes will always try and claim those roles. Having the Guard Duty pipe up might also narrow your choices down. Basically, follow your gut on day one and be prepared to take a stab in the dark. The more people talk and act the more information you have. Watch for Comet, Chipie, and Remnan suddenly accusing people; they're intuitive and might have flashed on a lie. It's usually a solid plan to throw shade at whoever yesterday's victim voted for. Check the reports and try and draw inferences. And read the in-game help, it lists a lot of esoteric logic tricks you can use on people.

As Gnosia, remember that every time you defend a Gnosia or doubt a human or present any report (even if it's actually true) you are lying and people might perceive it; it's considerably less risky to join a dogpile in progress than start one yourself. Level up Stealth to get people to not immediately hate you when you try and lead a discussion and Performance if you want to be able to lie safely (and try and clean out the intuition crew early).

Remember that it's not about winning, necessarily. Plenty of events are contingent on losing. And, no matter what you do, you're still gaining levels, and every stat point makes things easier.

You can respec your character by playing as the Bug and visiting Yuriko after a round (she'll have a <!> event)

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
I love how Jonas is just so terminally Like That that a lot of the time the group just randomly votes him out on day one even when he didn't say anything, nobody called him sus, and everybody spent the whole round throwing shade at Gina.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.


I won Raqio's admiration by managing to catch them in a lie (they, as the Follower, claimed in one of their early reports (before they stepped forward) that SQ was Gnosia. On Day 1, Jonas was the only person claiming to be the Doctor, and before he got assassinated on Day 3, the day we voted SQ out, he confirmed that the two people we voted for on Day 1 were Gnosia. There were 3 Gnosia.) It took me a minute to figure out why Definite Enemy had appeared as an option but I sat and worked through it and here we are.



This happened immediately afterward. gently caress you too, Stella.



Setsu absolutely tried to shank me for that, but sweet blessed Otome stepped the gently caress up. Absolutely everyone rounded on Setsu on day 5.



Comet was rightly astonished to have survived a game as Guard Duty. Previously the targets were Yuriko (was trying to collaborate with me for plot, so I guess she had to die), Chipie, the other Guard, Jonas, the actual Doctor, and me, the annoying logic guy. I guess we all took the heat off.

As for why Setsu was so sus...



...Day 1 Human Stating remains a power move.

Fedule fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 6, 2021

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
As far as I know you don't need high Intuition to get the scene, you just need to have Comet on a high affection and both be human.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Further post: It seems the game has a few localisation issues?



The caption says I "succeeded" in putting all the claimed Engineers into cold sleep, when actually I was just agreeing with the plan. There are a couple of weird instances like this that as far as I remember are all technical summaries of stuff.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Good god the EXP gains from the 5v1 AC setup are indeed obscene. How is this stuff actually calculated? It doesn't seem like it should be so high; it's not difficult if you're passable at just staying alive and maybe have literally any Performance.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

Pollyanna posted:

If youíre Gnosia, is it better to immediately claim a role to muddy the waters from the start, or wait until someone brings it up?

Not always. If multiple people claim a role on day one, everyone will be certain that all but one of the people claiming each role are liars, so you'll have to continually deal with that. You'll need a lot more performance than normal to do this, because every time you present any report you'll be lying (ordinarily as Gnosia you're always lying if you defend a Gnosia or doubt a human). If you wait until later days, you can remove the ability of people to be certain that the real engineer is in play, and also make it more likely that you'll be the only one contending the role. This isn't airtight, since people will be wary of the possibility that whoever got cold-slept or ganked on Day 1 might be the real one, but it also means you won't have the real one immediately gunning for you, and if you can get people onside you can write the truth with your reports.


Pollyanna posted:

Also, should I always waste the real Eng/Doctor if possible? And if so, does that mean if I see this happen, the surviving role is fake?

Edit: Also also, is there any downside to immediately Doubting the fake role of someone claims it but you’re the real one?

If an Engineer or Doctor is ganked, it confirms they were human. They might have been the AC follower, but on the whole if all but one of the Engineers or Doctors are ganked it looks very, very sus.

If you're the real Engineer or Doctor you obviously know for certain that others are faking, but nobody else can be sure that you know this. If you have the stats you will be able to start a dogpile on the fake just with sheer charisma, but if you're going up against SQ or Kukrushka or motherfucking Yuriko this can backfire on you if you go in half-cocked.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Game's loving with me.

Setsu has requested I strike up a friendship with Raqio for reasons. Every single game since, Raqio either immediately gets dogpiled on day 1, even when nobody's doubting her, even when Shigemechi tries to claim a role and literally everybody's intuition flashes but they all just decide Raqio's sus instead, or, Raqio just isn't interested and never even shows up as a visit option. I guess this is a just keep playing and wait situation but you can't stop me finding this funny.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

It's basically how stacked are the odds against you. I late game farmed 15 crew 1 Gnosia as Gnosia with no other evils and all the good roles and as long as your stats are high you can just gain the trust of a few members and pray the Guardian Angel misses. You can get hundreds of thousands of EXP even if it takes a bit.

15 crew 6 Gnosia no roles and AC Follower/Bug is not as good since putting a crew to cold sleep means Game Over and you also have to find the Bug.



You weren't kidding.

I managed to get Raqio collaborating again but there didn't seem to be any option to ask her about anything in particular? What are the requirements here exactly? (to clarify: Setsu asked me to ask Raqio about this Key business)

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
This was kinda mean from Raqio's logic homework. I immediately thought that the situation as reported was impossible since the game should be over if three Gnosia have been iced, and that I had to be misunderstanding the sequence of events, so I figured that maybe Gina, SQ, Setsu and Chipie were cold slept in that order, but the game would end before Shigemichi could actually examine Chipie. I hit the option to repeat the question thinking maybe it would lead somewhere but no. So then of course Raqio gets smug and explains to me the thing I just figured out.

very mild spoiler in image i guess




Then they ask another one which has an obvious right answer and accuse me of guessing when I answered their 50/50 question correctly. Thinking Raqio might have logic on lock but needs a catch-up in statistics.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

Ytlaya posted:

My opinion of Sha-ming improved after the reveal that he was raised by a bunch of monkeys.

Skill questions - is there any downside to using Exaggerate instead of Agree? And is the only difference between Seek Agreement/Exaggerate or Regret/Obfuscate ) that they scale off of different stats and affect different characters differently?

Edit: I've noticed that at least Yuriko frequently won't do "Say you're human" even when she's human. Otherwise that skill will almost always identify at least one Gnosia.

Generally, using a skill draws more attention than using a regular stock response, which draws more attention than doing nothing. Deciding when the utility is worth more than the attention is the important part. For example, using Deny when someone doubts you draws attention and usually raises suspicion a little, but also stops anyone from Agreeing with the Doubt. If you think you can make it work, using Regret instead of Deny draws more attention, but is likely to inspire more people to Defend you than would if you simply Deny.

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Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Lmao I actually managed to win a 10 v 3 (with doc, engineer, bug) game as Gnosia with Gina and Shigemichi as my buddies. Gina actually got herself voted too sus first, somehow. Also, by chance we tried to kill Kukrushka on day 1 and she turned out to be the bug, so then we spent several days trying to get rid of her and she just kept throwing everyone off, thankfully onto random crew usually, but it got down to 4 v 2 and she was still there. I happened to get some Remnan plot scenes so I also took the chance to get him collaborating. It's day 5 and the engineer still hasn't come out and Kukrushka was still everybody's fave, so as a hail mary I declared myself the Engineer and reported her as Gnosia (I almost never claim roles, I just don't like it). Remnan obviously turns out to be the real engineer, and I think we're hosed. Then, Kukrushka jumps in as the third engineer and somehow winds up reporting that Jonas, who we'd just killed the day before, was Gnosia. Setsu immediately fired off Definite Enemy on her, and she was unanimously voted out. Out of gratitude to Remnan and Setsu I chose, uh, whoever else was left to assassinate for the win, I think it was Comet. Shigemichi was very surprised to have won as Gnosia.

All of which brings me to ask, what actually goes on in-game with back-reports when you fake a role? After you claim, you fabricate a report each night, but how do the previous days reports from you get picked? It's kind of weird in retrospect that you can't fake reports on the fly but I guess that's a concession for the sake of the game.

E: Also, semi-unrelatedly, a thing I realised is that it's not honestly that weird that Definite Enemy etc is contingent on the Logic stat, because the Logic stat isn't representative of your logical capacity but your ability to argue using logic. It's a little untidy conceptually but there's all sorts of stuff that's easy to intuitively understand but difficult to lay out a logical proof for if you're pushed, and it's vaguely plausible that those skills might be put to the test if you're trying to convince people that they're being fooled.

Fedule fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 8, 2021

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