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Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.


Blyzes just upping his speedrunning game. Something else happened during the season where he was fined and docked points and he was mad about how Blizzard went about it and he talked about how it had really turned him off from the whole GMs thing. Then he had the miracle run to get back into playoff contention, then through the playoffs into the finals. But then had hopes brutally dashed by two complete non games while 2-1 up where there was zero chance to do anything so he tilted off the face of the planet.

I think he does have a bit of an attitude, but I also sympathise with his situation in the game and in the context of his season as a whole.

Personally I think the way that the World Champ attendees are selected played a big role in it and is really stupid for a game like HS in general. Everybody knows that this is a game of high variance, so it's moronic that such an important thing comes down to just a single regular match. I get that it all adds to the 'high drama' of relegations and qualification, but it makes precious little sense that there's 7 straight weeks of play just to select the 8 players who play a single teeny-tiny regular elim bracket that decides everything. Imagine qualifying 7th out of 16 players to go to playoffs and then losing one series and being eliminated. The level of effort vs payoff is farcical.

By and large, consistent skill takes the 'right' players through to playoffs, but which player from there gets through to World's is mostly luck imo - whether you draw well enough, whether you get paired against a favourable or non-favourable lineup and so on. The sample size is way, way too small for a fair outcome. The same is true of World's itself but whatever. I guess you just make your peace with that as a professional HS player?

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AnacondaHL
Feb 15, 2009


Mayveena posted:

As a 63 year old I think we expect too much from people who are barely adults. Maybe give these players a chance to breath and unwind a bit without the camera on them?

Unfortunately, these 25-year olds do have an impact on the 15-year olds watching, and they are being paid professionally. This is a really hard spot for Blizz, because they need to balance making an example of Blyze here to discourage this unsportsmanlike behavior, but also not being too harsh for there to be negative backlash. We'll see what they do.


skaboomizzy posted:

Yeah, it was something I'd maybe do if I was tired and knew it was my last game of the night so I just hit "quit" instead of "concede". The game/match was obviously over and I don't think there was anything malicious about it, just mild frustration.

Yea, not malicious, but again "highest behavior standards". Like people swear in mild frustration too, but that is explicitly listed as behavior that will get you fined in GMs.



Yes, the system sucks, if it was an actual tournament that cared solely about the competition.

Unfortunately, everything GM's and Worlds is not a tournament. It's an entertainment production with a competition attached to it. And having random people off the street makes the logistics for putting on this entertainment production much harder than instead choosing from a pool of vetted individuals (like imagine if Jeopardy was just an open qualification system instead of having the screening that it hasedit: this is an inappropriate example, because the Jeopardy screening actually makes sure those of the highest skill make it onto broadcast, with only the minor extra check on other "entertainment" character issues, where in HS it's the opposite).

So I understand why they would do it like this, but it does really suck for "The Dream".

AnacondaHL fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jun 7, 2021

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science



Jeza posted:

By and large, consistent skill takes the 'right' players through to playoffs, but which player from there gets through to World's is mostly luck imo - whether you draw well enough, whether you get paired against a favourable or non-favourable lineup and so on. The sample size is way, way too small for a fair outcome. The same is true of World's itself but whatever. I guess you just make your peace with that as a professional HS player?
Keep in mind that "unfair outcome" is essentially Hearthstone's game design at this point.

It's also what makes Hearthstone fun to watch.

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.


Dik Hz posted:

Keep in mind that "unfair outcome" is essentially Hearthstone's game design at this point.

It's also what makes Hearthstone fun to watch.

I still generally view HS as a game of skill. You can clearly see some players consistently rise to the top of fields over and over again. But in a game by game microcosm, you just can't balance the luck out.

'Unfair outcome' isn't really a point of design, or at least not anything beyond what it is to play any card game where what you get and the order you draw it is the most consequential factor most of the time. Poker is way more luck based than Hearthstone and in far more ways brutally 'unfair' at points but not over long periods of time.

I agree that it's entertainment in the guise of a real tournament, but honestly they should just put the top two 2 players from all weeks of play from each region to World's and then just have a for cash mini-regional playoff. At least that way, the best consistent players have the chance to qualify for World's more consistently, instead of having to pass through this crapshoot end of season bonus stage.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science



Jeza posted:

'Unfair outcome' isn't really a point of design, or at least not anything beyond what it is to play any card game where what you get and the order you draw it is the most consequential factor most of the time. Poker is way more luck based than Hearthstone and in far more ways brutally 'unfair' at points but not over long periods of time.
Respectfully, I disagree. By 'unfair outcome' as a design element, I mean that the game designers have deliberately designed cards that are fun to play and high variance despite not being optimal. There are also cards that are optimal in some decks, but extremely high variance.

Perfect fairness (better deck/skilled pilot wins 100% of the time) and true random (50/50% chance for both competitors no matter what) are both really boring. It's gotta be hard for game designers to hit the sweet spot in the middle.

idiotsavant
Jun 4, 2000


I can also see the frustration given some of the meta. NoHandsGamerís playoffs vs Muzzy seemed like just a brutal series of RNG slams, and NHG did a giant visible ďWHAT THE gently caressĒ when Muzzy dropped back-to-back Mutanuses right on curve during one game.

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


Dik Hz posted:

Respectfully, I disagree. By 'unfair outcome' as a design element, I mean that the game designers have deliberately designed cards that are fun to play and high variance despite not being optimal. There are also cards that are optimal in some decks, but extremely high variance.

Perfect fairness (better deck/skilled pilot wins 100% of the time) and true random (50/50% chance for both competitors no matter what) are both really boring. It's gotta be hard for game designers to hit the sweet spot in the middle.

this is definitely with the caveat that i've been tuned out of hearthstone for a long while, but it seems like they've always had a bad habit of high variance cards being playable because the variance was either consistent Enough (see: discovering a taunt minion usually getting you tirion) or the highrolls were good enough to outweigh potentially getting lowrolls (yogg-saron before the creature dying stopped the battlefield effect)

Big Mouth Billy Basshole
Jun 18, 2007



Fun Shoe

I bought the mini-expansion with gold, so what should I spend my gold on next? Is it better the get packs for expansions that I don't have as many cards in my collection, or one which I have more? Or should I target an expansion that has important cards that I'm missing?

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013





If you don't have all the good rares for a set, you should focus on that set. Or at least that was true until they added Standard packs, you should probably focus on those if you aren't targeting specific cards.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





my instinct would be to buy barrens packs because those will be in standard for two years instead of one, and craft any stuff from last year that you want. but I am an ancient who's been playing since league of explorers so idk what it's really like for new players nowadays

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


Yeah I got like 2550 gold. Wondering if I should buy more packs or keep saving for the next expansion.

Tuxedo Gin
May 20, 2003

Classy.



If you have most/all of the cards or decks you really want now, then save for the next. If there's still a lot you are missing or wanting, then buy until you get or can craft them.

fanny packrat
Mar 24, 2018


Just had a priest go samuro->apotheosis and run it into my taunt totem when I had a full board. They did not win that game.

AnacondaHL
Feb 15, 2009


Save your gold for next expansion, as long as you are happy with your current decks and have all the rares.

This is because we've seen a recent modern trend in HS: the 1st sets of a year seem to be intentionally designed to be weaker. The cards lose usefulness in Standard decks at a higher rate than 2nd and 3rd sets.

Last King
Sep 29, 2007

In corporate R'lyeh, Cthulhu works you.



Fun Shoe

AnacondaHL posted:

Yea, not malicious, but again "highest behavior standards". Like people swear in mild frustration too, but that is explicitly listed as behavior that will get you fined in GMs.

imagine playing hs without swearing. good lord.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


mcbexx posted:

I don't think he's crucial. I feel I often play it to keep my opponent occupied until I can get start to open palm slam my Illidari Inquisitors.

The deathrattles are all over the place usually, but since they tend to be sticky, they require more resources to deal with.

Then again, I don't exactly know how often forcing the opponent to spend those resources potentially saved my rear end, but I never felt in actual danger when I played him.

Yeah been having a good go at it without Vectus. Put in a Felosophy instead to get out another Inquisitor, but haven't really needed it.

This deck is so, so fun. Love Blackthorn and N'Zoth. It was funny cause I wanted to build this deck but didn't have Blackthorn, then pulled him from one of the packs I got for watching GMs.

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!


Iíve decided Iím going to just earn the remaining 1000 gold for the mini-expansion.

In the mean time, will this change how I should handle card packs to milk the maximum rewards from them? As in, should I avoid doing the new story campaign and/or opening the reward packs on the extremely small chance Iíll get a legendary from the mini expansion?

AnacondaHL
Feb 15, 2009


Cool, step one is successful (invite was not lost in e-mail)



time to sell my soul to Blizz (the waiver is like one step short literally of this)



jpeg only wtf



this diagram slays me for some reason

AnacondaHL fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jun 8, 2021

Flayer
Sep 13, 2003

Enjoyment and excitement



Buglord

I feel like points 4/5 on the position FAQ could be deemed rather insulting to some!

Disargeria
May 5, 2010



AnacondaHL posted:




this diagram slays me for some reason

The esports intern is subcontracting things out to their preteen sibling.

Boatswain
May 29, 2012


AnacondaHL posted:

Cool, step one is successful (invite was not lost in e-mail)

Cool, when are you playing so we can cheer you on? Although it feels heretical for a goon to be good at a game.


Quotey
Aug 16, 2006



i think i'm like 10-20+ over the last 2 weeks trying to complete the ranked games quest. just not finding it very fun. also face hunter mirrors 3 times going second. unfortunate!

at least the matches are quick. token druid seems popular, least fun non priest deck to play against tbh

Quotey fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jun 8, 2021

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Quotey posted:

i think i'm like 10-20+ over the last 2 weeks trying to complete the ranked games quest. just not finding it very fun. also face hunter mirrors 3 times going second. unfortunate!

at least the matches are quick. token druid seems popular, least fun non priest deck to play against tbh

I am like 400 games deep into Face Hunter and while it's not getting me past Diamond 8 at the moment it's a lot more nuanced that I initially thought. Just keep bashing your head into the wall and it'll click eventually. I have beaten two Priests today and that almost never happens with this deck. The mirror match does suck, mulligan for Kolkar.

Edit: Piercing Shot on your own minions wins games

Desert Bus fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jun 8, 2021

Lumbermouth
Mar 6, 2008

GREG IS BIG NOW



Desert Bus posted:

Edit: Piercing Shot on your own minions wins games

Holy poo poo

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Lumbermouth posted:

Holy poo poo

RIGHT? It took me forever to figure that out but this is also my drinking game

Blasmeister
Jan 15, 2012



Blasted through 500 wins and legend with that Demonhunter N'zoth list upthread. Thanks for the list, has some of the most satisfying Skulls of Guldan with how many chunky 3 drops it runs.

fanny packrat
Mar 24, 2018


Quotey posted:

i think i'm like 10-20+ over the last 2 weeks trying to complete the ranked games quest. just not finding it very fun. also face hunter mirrors 3 times going second. unfortunate!

at least the matches are quick. token druid seems popular, least fun non priest deck to play against tbh

I played a lot of face hunter climbing to dad legend this month. In the mirror I had a lot of success just outvaluing my opponent. Let them go all-in dumping their hand while I hold a pack runner and keep spells. Play out minions (always save a 1 mana 1/1 for piercing shot) control the board, value trade, and make sure you consider taking Wolpertinger off of Wrangler instead of snap-picking rhino. YMMV, but that worked for me.

Token druid was all about going wide (again, mull for pack runner), keeping them clear, and make it hard for them to go all-in without taking a ton of damage on the backswing. Rifle was good for me in this.

Priest is just awful. Going wide feels bad, going tall feels bad, lightshower can be a big problem on 6 if you haven't wranglered a rhino, and samuro->apo can come down early thanks to palm reading and insight. I think I was most successful hoarding my direct damage spells, hitting the button to offset their HP, and not overcommitting. These games can easily go 10 turns so mete out threats with discretion.

The worst for me was warlock. Just a constant cycle of draw-remove-heal until about turn 7, then it's Malicia, Tickatus, Strongman, and the game ends with them at close to full health.

Good luck!

Julio Cruz
May 19, 2006



a friend reminded me I actually have a second long-dormant HS account for some reason so today I've been beating up on people with like 0 MMR in Wild

just had a Hunter play Literally Silverback Patriarch

Cry Havoc
May 10, 2004

This cyberpunk cartoon avatar is pretty dang ol' good, I tell you what.

two new bundles in the shop - is there a pity timer on year of Phoenix packs?

Last King
Sep 29, 2007

In corporate R'lyeh, Cthulhu works you.



Fun Shoe

fanny packrat posted:

I played a lot of face hunter climbing to dad legend this month. In the mirror I had a lot of success just outvaluing my opponent. Let them go all-in dumping their hand while I hold a pack runner and keep spells. Play out minions (always save a 1 mana 1/1 for piercing shot) control the board, value trade, and make sure you consider taking Wolpertinger off of Wrangler instead of snap-picking rhino. YMMV, but that worked for me.

Token druid was all about going wide (again, mull for pack runner), keeping them clear, and make it hard for them to go all-in without taking a ton of damage on the backswing. Rifle was good for me in this.

Priest is just awful. Going wide feels bad, going tall feels bad, lightshower can be a big problem on 6 if you haven't wranglered a rhino, and samuro->apo can come down early thanks to palm reading and insight. I think I was most successful hoarding my direct damage spells, hitting the button to offset their HP, and not overcommitting. These games can easily go 10 turns so mete out threats with discretion.

The worst for me was warlock. Just a constant cycle of draw-remove-heal until about turn 7, then it's Malicia, Tickatus, Strongman, and the game ends with them at close to full health.

Good luck!

i was spamming face hunter to try to just get through the d5 to legend climb, but the games have been something awful. face hunter doesn't feel like it can push through and every game, the plays and follow ups are predictable (i.e. wrangler into buffed rhino, etc.). just walls and walls of priests, shaman, and dh which keeps me stuck around d4 - d5.

Adregan
Oct 22, 2002



Last King posted:

i was spamming face hunter to try to just get through the d5 to legend climb, but the games have been something awful. face hunter doesn't feel like it can push through and every game, the plays and follow ups are predictable (i.e. wrangler into buffed rhino, etc.). just walls and walls of priests, shaman, and dh which keeps me stuck around d4 - d5.

Which was different then last month when it was all paladins with a sprinkle of DH and rogues. I havenít seen whatís in store yet since I just hit diamond 10 this morning. But that DH list that was posted above does some real work.

fanny packrat
Mar 24, 2018


Last King posted:

i was spamming face hunter to try to just get through the d5 to legend climb, but the games have been something awful. face hunter doesn't feel like it can push through and every game, the plays and follow ups are predictable (i.e. wrangler into buffed rhino, etc.). just walls and walls of priests, shaman, and dh which keeps me stuck around d4 - d5.

As soon as I hit D5 I stopped playing face hunter. I don't care so much about pushing for real legend, but I've been having fun and success in this ladder bracket with elemental shaman and poison rogue. Except for the game where savory deviate delight gave the priest I was playing against a sword eater. The extra six damage and 5 health swung the game.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Yeah FaceHunter is fun but lol at getting it past D5.

AnacondaHL
Feb 15, 2009


fanny packrat posted:

The worst for me was warlock. Just a constant cycle of draw-remove-heal until about turn 7, then it's Malicia, Tickatus, Strongman, and the game ends with them at close to full health.

I recommend re-visiting your play in these matchups (or post some replay links!), because this should be heavily favored for Hunter. Yes, sometimes they brainlessly curve out perfect with removal into their heavy finishers, but this is not the norm.

Also, HS Replay is listing Face Hunter at the top of Tier 1 right now, including Top1k Legend, and the soon-to-be released next vS report is going to reflect the same. Unless you are facing an rear end-ton of Priest and OTK DH, jamming Hunter is all even matchups to insanely favored.

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

AnacondaHL posted:

I recommend re-visiting your play in these matchups (or post some replay links!), because this should be heavily favored for Hunter.

Also, HS Replay is listing Face Hunter at the top of Tier 1 right now, including Top1k Legend, and the soon-to-be released next vS report is going to reflect the same. Unless you are facing an rear end-ton of Priest and OTK DH, jamming Hunter is all even matchups to insanely favored.

Yeah I win like 99% of my games against Warlock. It's insane how good it is against that. As stated before I am about 400 games deep with the deck though and can now kind of just auto-pilot it against everything. The new Shaman decks are the only thing really giving me any trouble.

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013





Incredible that in a patch where Hunter got nothing it still came out ahead of everyone else just because Paladin finally got brought down to earth.

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.


D5 really is a brick wall now, huh.

fanny packrat
Mar 24, 2018


AnacondaHL posted:

I recommend re-visiting your play in these matchups (or post some replay links!), because this should be heavily favored for Hunter. Yes, sometimes they brainlessly curve out perfect with removal into their heavy finishers, but this is not the norm.

Also, HS Replay is listing Face Hunter at the top of Tier 1 right now, including Top1k Legend, and the soon-to-be released next vS report is going to reflect the same. Unless you are facing an rear end-ton of Priest and OTK DH, jamming Hunter is all even matchups to insanely favored.

I've looked at them and it's tough for me to say where I screwed up. Unfortunately, I only had 3 games this season as face hunter against warlock when I was running a tracker (I've been playing a lot more mobile recently). I'm 1/3 in those, and in both losses they had lots of early removal and minions to curve into. I'm fine assuming it was a combination of misplays and good draws.

Edit: and poor memory.

fanny packrat fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jun 8, 2021

Desert Bus
May 9, 2004

Take 1 tablet by mouth daily.

Shockeh posted:

D5 really is a brick wall now, huh.

What no? This doesn't feel bad at all:

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World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





just enjoy dad legend

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