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I just had a lengthy internet discussion(fight?) with a self proclaimed feminist, who claims that the very concept of gender spectrum is not real, transgender rights are hurting feminism and specifically MTF transgender people are feminism's enemy. I know that's not true, and i know transgender rights are not in the way of mainstream feminism. And I think to protect the rights of transgender community is good for feminism, good for a diverse and equal society and more. However, I am having trouble putting these into words since I have never taken women studies class, I didn't get into the habit of discussing social issues until the last few years and I am trying to learn more about feminism right now. What do you think are some good arguments to convey this point? (Intersectionality is important for feminism & Transgender rights are not the enemy of women's rights, but the opposite)? Or what book do you think I should read in regards to this topic / what classes I can take that you recommend? Here are some concrete questions: 1. Why is intersectionality beneficial to feminism? 2. Why are transgender(transmen&transwomen) rights not hurting feminism? 3. How do I argue with someone under the cloak of "feminism" and say transgender people as a community are enemies of feminism? How is their brand of feminism actually hurting feminism? 4. How do I argue with someone who says they're a lesbian and transgender rights are hurting gay rights? (I will add more if I can come up with more concrete questions, please welcome to raise your own questions too) Thank you very much! feizhouxiongdi2 fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 23:12
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Tiggum posted:Gay people saying that transgender people are doing harm to their cause are really saying "I'm getting some of this privilege now and I'm starting to see the upside of discrimination." augias posted:Rights are agreements society makes with itself, not a pinata. More candy for trans people doesnt mean less candy for lesbian and gay people, so I dont understand the argument myself.
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Mar 24, 2021 17:16
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Fighting Trousers posted:Basically TERFs are the Phyllis Schlaflys of second wave feminism - femininity is special and precious and if you let just anyone have access to it, it won't be special anymore. im writing this down and translating it into chinese for anyone else i have to argue with on the chinese internet!
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Mar 31, 2021 19:58
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Puppy Time posted:In having this kind of argument, you're first going to need to decide your strategy- are you looking to change the mind of your opponent, or are you looking to influence bystanders? In both cases, you need to understand their underlying arguments and motivations. honestly that's what i was thinking the whole time when i was arguing with them. I have never met this person, don't know who it is behind the screen, all I knew was that this was posted on a forum I visit often and I couldn't just let it slide (aka let this opinion be the only opinion about trans people and feminism on that thread), to let something so obviously transphobic slide feels like i am aiding them somehow. But I also recognize these kind fo "content" is everywhere on the internet. So idk, I hope i was able to convince some bystanders. I most definitely did not convince this person lol. On a side note, after some back and forth and me trying my best to stick to the facts and reasons, they backed off and said "ok i will delete my posts but i hope you can delete yours too" and I said no to deleting mine (but that i was happy they were deleting theirs lol) and that has caused them to lose it, they started talking about other transphobic stuff here and there (I also had to google what "super" is in this content, which was... time well spent on my part (not)), which i think showed the bystanders that they were the unreasonable one since they really lost it at the end of the argument. So I guess the point is that you can rarely convince someone who is spreading hate on the internet, but there is a better chance for you to change or influence the minds of people reading the exchange. Like you said, to aim for the former really needs a private venue, with someone you already know - so not a faceless stranger on the internet. Thank you so much for your insights!
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Mar 31, 2021 20:06
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