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golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011

yospos



Monaghan posted:

I read the comic years ago and liked most of it. I watched the show and I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post this as I don't see any other threads on it but:


COMIC SPOILERS
The expanded stuff with Omni Man killing more people than the guardians leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The subway scene in particular. When omni man comes back and reunites with mark and reforms, I bought it in the comics. He killed the guardians for a reason as they'd be the ones to oppose the vulrtrimites. He didn't really kill much more people than that. However, him coming back after killing a loving subway full of people? That's too much. He only did this to prove how worthless humans are to himself and to Mark, which isn't great reason. He shouldn't get a do-over after murdering hundreds of people.
Other than that, I really enjoyed it.

Fans have accepted bigger turns. Look at Vegeta from Dragonball.

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zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Good Citizen posted:

The difference between the comic and the show in that scene was all in how explicitly depicted Omin-man's murder spree was. He absolutely killed just as many people and had just as much disregard for human life in the comic. Here are the relevant pages (not spoilering since it already happened in the show):
[

Also, gonna strongly suggest that people DO NOT click on the original spoiler unless you've already read the whole comic as it's extra spoilery

It was more than that, I feel like in the comic, Nolan was mostly mad at Mark for not accepting his Viltrumite heritage, whereas in the show it's much more about showing him the difference between viltrumites and humans and how little humans matter - which is also why I think that the ultraviolence was justified in that case, not only for Mark but for the audience. We're pretty desensitized to violence these days so you gotta go insane to get people's attention. In the comic you can infer that a lot of people died, but inferring and seeing Mark holding the arm of the woman he was futilely trying to save is a much stronger scene. Going back and rewatching some of the show with that end fight in mind really colors the interactions in which Mark saves people throughout the series. Like when he saves that little girl and her mom from the building collapse and he's all "no rush", that's essentially the same circumstance in the final fight with him trying to hold back the collapsing building and failing to save that mother and child.

Also that's just my read, it's a lot clearer what's going on in character motivations and attitudes in a work that's performed by actors than one in which the actor is the voice in your head. JK Simmons definitely made Nolan seem more sympathetic than he came across in the fight in the comic.

zoux fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 4, 2021

Good Citizen
Aug 12, 2008




golden bubble posted:

Fans have accepted bigger turns. Look at Vegeta from Dragonball.

This is why season 2 is gonna be Mark and Eve's search for the Savage Dragonballs in order to bring back everyone Nolan killed

pnumoman
Sep 26, 2008

I always get the last word


Good Citizen posted:

Savage Dragonballs

I died

Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006



Good Citizen posted:

The difference between the comic and the show in that scene was all in how explicitly depicted Omin-man's murder spree was. He absolutely killed just as many people and had just as much disregard for human life in the comic. Here are the relevant pages (not spoilering since it already happened in the show):


Also, gonna strongly suggest that people DO NOT click on the original spoiler unless you've already read the whole comic as it's extra spoilery

I do think theres' an i difference from being indifferent to human life and deliberately murdering them. But Vegeta is a good counter argument.

bigperm
Jul 10, 2001
some obscure reference

Omni-man straight up asked Mark to take over the world with him. Like kill everyone who had a problem with it, and rule the planet until the Viltrumites could come and conquer it. This was happening. There wasn't a chance that the discussion was going to be tabled until Mark came to his senses after he saw his Dad murder The Immortal.

Mark said no, they fought - Omni-man killed a bunch of people in the process to demonstrate just how little they mean to him.

Mark was hosed up bad. Omni-man was perfectly capable of killing Mark and going forward with his plan alone. That is what a Viltrumite would do. That is the reason he came to Earth to begin with.

bigperm fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 4, 2021

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Good Citizen posted:

The difference between the comic and the show in that scene was all in how explicitly depicted Omin-man's murder spree was. He absolutely killed just as many people and had just as much disregard for human life in the comic. Here are the relevant pages (not spoilering since it already happened in the show):


Also, gonna strongly suggest that people DO NOT click on the original spoiler unless you've already read the whole comic as it's extra spoilery

Yeah its more implied killing here though. And the extent of gore here is Dragonball-level blood splatter. The show really went next level, implementing how grisly some of Ottley's art got later on.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001





Pillbug

Ccs posted:

Yeah its more implied killing here though. And the extent of gore here is Dragonball-level blood splatter. The show really went next level, implementing how grisly some of Ottley's art got later on.

i never read the comic but i was doing some wiki deep diving after watching the show and spoiled myself on some stuff and holy poo poo, that is nasty.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



People complaint about how MoS or Avengers avoid showing what happens to the civilians. Invincible goes the other way, making what happens to the civilians the centerpiece. I haven't seen much complaining about it, but I have seen so much complaining about the gore in the comics, which is about on a par with the subway scene.

I guess I just don't care? Or maybe because I'm so squeamish I hate actual gory horror movies but animated doesn't bother me as much so that's how I consume that kind of media? I just don't think ultraviolence is inherently bad, I guess. It can be, but the violence in the finale is extremely organic to scene and characters and serves a definite purpose. People everywhere are talking about the episode and I don't think you get that kind of reaction if they do the lighter, implied violence from the comics fight.

Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006



BSS really hated the gore, I remember when the comic was out, but I found that the strength of the story and the characters made the violence more of a "meh" thing. It was also when walking dead was like at it's zenith so people were getting a little tired of kirkman, especially how unrelenting bleak the walking dead largely is. The over the top violence of invincible made him seem like a pure shock value author, which wasn't a fair assessment.

There is one bit of violence that I won't go into that I think is super, super dumb and pointless, but that's really about it.

Monaghan fucked around with this message at 22:06 on May 4, 2021

bigperm
Jul 10, 2001
some obscure reference

zoux posted:

Or maybe because I'm so squeamish I hate actual gory horror movies but animated doesn't bother me as much so that's how I consume that kind of media?

Same here. Hate even fake looking zombie movie gore but animated stuff doesn't give me the same reaction.

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012



I'm not a huge fan of excessive gore. I would definitely enjoy it if they toned it down a bit but overall it doesn't ruin my enjoyment. On the other hand I don't recommend the show to people for that very reason.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Its not excessive though, its to the point of the story.

If Omni-man still killed people but it was very clean and clinical and we mostly just heard about it from off-screen, it wouldn't work the same. If Omni-man didn't kill innocents, it would be a completely different story.

But if you don't want to see violent superheroes then the show isn't for you, that's like half the point of the story. A superhero story that looks at other aspects of that setting, like the cost to humans and weird relationships the supes have.

It just seems weird to me to be like "I wish this story about superman slaughtering innocent children had less blood in it"

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001


The sanitized violence demanded of the BSS crowd is puerile in the extreme, a case of child-brained adults clinging to a manufactured ideology.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





If Omni-man wasn't killing innocents (and in a brutal way) there wouldn't be that sense of tension whenever he shows up. Like in episode 7 or 8 when he's asking Invincible's friend where he's gone, you know that at any moment, if he's not pleased with his answers, he could just crush him.

YOU the viewer know his life is in mortal peril, but the character has no idea.

thanks alot assbag
Feb 18, 2005

BLUUUUHHHHHH


Just binged through this show over the last few days... I went in totally blind too, didn't know it was a comic series or the premise or anything. I just about broke my jaw on the floor at the end of the first episode. Almost wish I recorded my reaction lol but I had no idea it was coming!

Loved this show though! Episode 7 had me so stressed out that I actually cried a little. It was awesome.

JT Smiley
Mar 3, 2006
Thats whats up!

The only change that's bothered me is seeing Mark get bodied by his dad loses some impact when we've seen him get hosed up over and over in these 8 episodes. I don't remember Mark taking any serious damage in the comic until he took on his dad, which made the whole ordeal even more hosed up.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS




It got deleted, what was it?

Good Citizen
Aug 12, 2008




JT Smiley posted:

The only change that's bothered me is seeing Mark get bodied by his dad loses some impact when we've seen him get hosed up over and over in these 8 episodes. I don't remember Mark taking any serious damage in the comic until he took on his dad, which made the whole ordeal even more hosed up.

Yeah i think that panel I posted on the last page where Mark gets a nosebleed from Nolan's punch is the first time we ever see him even slightly damaged.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


JT Smiley posted:

The only change that's bothered me is seeing Mark get bodied by his dad loses some impact when we've seen him get hosed up over and over in these 8 episodes. I don't remember Mark taking any serious damage in the comic until he took on his dad, which made the whole ordeal even more hosed up.

Well Battle Beast was always out of his league.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




By moving the Machine head arc up they made a good episode that changed the context around omni man a bit but also gave Mark a huge injury that he recovered from no problem. So when Nolan does the same but to less of an extent were not worried about Marks physical injuries at all, we know he can bounce back.

In light of that they almost needed to add the other gratuitous violence so it really makes the impact of how much mental scarring Mark will carry from this encounter.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well Battle Beast was always out of his league.

That plotline was post omni-man in the comics. I'll spoil this just for purists, but literally nothing that wasn't in the show already. Comic wise it was just


1. get powers, fight the bank robbers
2. learn about viltrumites
3. the little green men invade
4. I can't recall if this one appeared in the show
5. Allen the Alien
6. First appearance of the robot zombie things, but not the whole scientist plotline
7. rip guardians
8. funeral
9. guardian tryouts + immortal waking up
10. we need to talk
11. they talk
12. mark gets pwnd


so yeah, Invincible was pretty invincible until he got mulched by Omni-man so it was a pretty big deal

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



I was reading the last issue of the series (no spoilers, I promise) and Kirkman mentions in the outro that he originally was going to put the Nolan turn in like issue 25, Jim Valentino (head of Image Comics at the time) was like "dude, your book won't make it to issue 25 if you don't have a hook, move it up to issue 12" and he eventually moved it up to issue 7. Before the Nolan hook landed, sales were waning hard and he mentions the book looked like it wasn't even going to make it to issue 12, but then word of mouth started buzzing, sales picked up, and eventually Kirkman would become, well, Kirkman, and Invincible would last for 144 issues.

Crazy.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




I started reading the comic when the first big hardcover collection came out, so by that point it had already survived the early uncertain years, but probably a lot of my ignorance was that comic shop owners had a real grudge against Image after the 90s. My hometown had a local comic shop and it was filled with DC, Marvel, and anime. I don't think I saw a single Image comic until I went to a Barnes and Noble and happened to find that there were American comics publishers who had series that didn't change artists every 6 issues and numbered their books in a normal way instead of naming each after the story arc, which made it impossible to know which Batman GN you should read before or after any other (does Long Halloween come before or after Dark Victory? When should I read Court of Owls?! Oh this Invincible comic is labeled #1, #2...) Much more appealing to readers raised on manga.

Kulkasha
Jan 15, 2010

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.


Ccs posted:

I started reading the comic when the first big hardcover collection came out, so by that point it had already survived the early uncertain years, but probably a lot of my ignorance was that comic shop owners had a real grudge against Image after the 90s. My hometown had a local comic shop and it was filled with DC, Marvel, and anime. I don't think I saw a single Image comic until I went to a Barnes and Noble and happened to find that there were American comics publishers who had series that didn't change artists every 6 issues and numbered their books in a normal way instead of naming each after the story arc, which made it impossible to know which Batman GN you should read before or after any other (does Long Halloween come before or after Dark Victory? When should I read Court of Owls?! Oh this Invincible comic is labeled #1, #2...) Much more appealing to readers raised on manga.
Image was founded as creator-centered iirc, and as a result the various titles have a greater sense of creative continuity. One thing that stuck out to me about reading Invincible was occasionally seeing Savage Dragon or Spawn show up, but there was never a multi-title special event where you had to buy 12 different comics just to know what was happening, and there was never a later writer coming on the series who wanted to roll back everything the previous guy had done so that his favorite superhero would go back to how they were when they were a kid reading comics (cough, Johns, cough). You just don't have to worry about that other poo poo, unlike with Marvel or DC. I can only imagine what would have happened if someone like Kirby was able to work in such a company during his time.

starkebn
May 18, 2004

"Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"


If the new guardians are the primo supers on the planet, then earth is in dire straights if Omni-Man comes back wanting to take over. Eve and Mark are so far above that group in power level it's comical really.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





starkebn posted:

If the new guardians are the primo supers on the planet, then earth is in dire straights if Omni-Man comes back wanting to take over. Eve and Mark are so far above that group in power level it's comical really.

I bet even not-Batman could have kicked the poo poo out of the new guardians all at once.

Also the ending montage showed Immortal being put back together again. So does he get a free pass to rejoin? Does he have to join a lesser team like Fight Force and work his way up the ranks again?

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001





Pillbug

starkebn posted:

If the new guardians are the primo supers on the planet, then earth is in dire straights if Omni-Man comes back wanting to take over. Eve and Mark are so far above that group in power level it's comical really.

yeah, Omni would kill them all in like a minute.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Kulkasha posted:

I can only imagine what would have happened if someone like Kirby was able to work in such a company during his time.

Kirby did do an Image book! Phantom Force! Its kinda a mess but was made with the best of intentions and gave Kirby the biggest pay day of his comics career. The cartoonist kayfabe fellas did a video on it thats really good and informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPoVrCX1ah8

Good Citizen posted:

Savage Dragonballs

Spacebump
Dec 23, 2003

Dallas Mavericks: Generations


I know they did some of the show out of order with the comics but can anyone tell me how many issues of the comic were covered one way or another in season 1? (if this it considered too spoilery for the thread, disregard this post)

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

Spacebump posted:

I know they did some of the show out of order with the comics but can anyone tell me how many issues of the comic were covered one way or another in season 1? (if this it considered too spoilery for the thread, disregard this post)

Here's what I recall from the show:
Comic issues 1-12 was pretty much just the main Invincible gets powers -> Omni-man loving off into space plot and the things directly related to it (old guardians/new guardians). None of the other show plots were involved.

Mars stuff was issue 18
Titan/Battle Beast stuff was issue 19
College students being turned into robots was issue 20 and 22
Robot getting a new body occurred over a couple pages here/couple pages there across 30-34 while other plotlines happened


If there were other show plots I skipped lemme know, I read the whole series between the last two episodes so it's all pretty mixed up in my head

Good Citizen
Aug 12, 2008




Spacebump posted:

I know they did some of the show out of order with the comics but can anyone tell me how many issues of the comic were covered one way or another in season 1? (if this it considered too spoilery for the thread, disregard this post)

The farthest thing forward so far was issue 37, which was DA Sinclair's Reanimen operation finally being taken down, but there's a ton of stuff in the post-12 and pre-37 story that hasn't been covered yet, including a couple major things that may not even make it into season 2 based on how I would plot it out. If I had to guess I'd say we've covered about 20 issues worth of content so far, and again if I had to guess I'd say there's a total of about 6-8 seasons of content in the full comics run if they did the whole thing. I'm judging more by 'this should be a season finale' moments more than 'they have to cover everything' because they probably shouldn't cover everything.

Good Citizen
Aug 12, 2008




Linking to another thread cause its extra spoilery, but this is what I guessed season 2-3 will land on
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3574760&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=738#post514379361

Collapsing Farts
Jun 29, 2018

💀

The gore is excessive but I sort of like that. Not just for the sake of gore itself but because the gore makes sense considering what we see on screen. If someone as powerful as Nolan attacks someone/something it's going to be insanely destructive. Especially if he's making a point about how fragile and weak humanity is. It's like if you went ham on an antstack. All those crushed ants probably is a grizzly scene if you were an ant

Collapsing Farts fucked around with this message at 07:23 on May 5, 2021

Mr Interweb
Aug 25, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


as someone who grew up loving animation but knowing that it had a perception as being aimed at small children, i'm happy to see that it seems to be more appreciated and acceptable for older audiences in the present. still, sometimes i find myself conflicted at the idea of 'adult animation'. mature content is nice, but far too many take the lack of restrictions for opportunities to go overboard on graphic material. i've learned long ago that sometimes there are people who NEED to be restrained (looking at you, john k).

Brendan Rodgers
Jun 11, 2014






Shwqa posted:

I'm not a huge fan of excessive gore. I would definitely enjoy it if they toned it down a bit but overall it doesn't ruin my enjoyment. On the other hand I don't recommend the show to people for that very reason.

My favourite comic is Crossed and it's almost impossible to recommend to people unless I know they will def be into it. Gore can serve a purpose, but it's hard to get right, and even when done right, it can put people off before they give it a chance, which is fair enough really.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

The show gore is way higher then the comics so far. Someone mentioned that in the comics people died in the subway too so it wasn't just the show, but the comic was just invincible getting punched through the ground, tunnel collapsing on a train, then getting punched back out. The whole bit with omni just deciding to feed everyone into a juicer was entirely the show.

Casnorf
Jun 14, 2002

Never drive a car when you're a fish

It sure do feel like the show is making a more concerted effort to not let you, the viewer, forget that Nolan has done some Bad poo poo.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003


Mr Interweb posted:

as someone who grew up loving animation but knowing that it had a perception as being aimed at small children, i'm happy to see that it seems to be more appreciated and acceptable for older audiences in the present. still, sometimes i find myself conflicted at the idea of 'adult animation'. mature content is nice, but far too many take the lack of restrictions for opportunities to go overboard on graphic material. i've learned long ago that sometimes there are people who NEED to be restrained (looking at you, john k).

Spawn was like 20+ years ago at this point.

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Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



Zaphod42 posted:

Its not excessive though, its to the point of the story.

If Omni-man still killed people but it was very clean and clinical and we mostly just heard about it from off-screen, it wouldn't work the same. If Omni-man didn't kill innocents, it would be a completely different story.

But if you don't want to see violent superheroes then the show isn't for you, that's like half the point of the story. A superhero story that looks at other aspects of that setting, like the cost to humans and weird relationships the supes have.

It just seems weird to me to be like "I wish this story about superman slaughtering innocent children had less blood in it"

It is why I will always stick up for the Squid ending of Watchmen. Those images are burned into my head forever, while the movie version is so sterile and undramatic.

I don't think the Invincible comic always justifies it, especially later on, but the animated version has done a great job of making the violence matter.

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