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Barudak
May 7, 2007



So like, after the second war of the ring do you think there are a bunch of Gondor middle bureaucrats with tactilol ranger gear?

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Barudak
May 7, 2007



Orcs are just elves who lapsed in their skincare regimen you can't trick me, woodsfolk!!

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I try not to look at maps of middle earth because it ruins the magic for me a little.

Thats said, drat thats a fine-rear end map. Wanna take that map out for dinner and let it order some lobster.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I know its an entirely weird me problem thing but I like not having to worry about concrete locations and distances and mountain ranges and what not because it makes my brain transition from "this is a kickass mythic story" to "the foliage described in this region are nonsense based on the geography presented and further more"

Barudak fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 11, 2021

Barudak
May 7, 2007



No no, Im not mad at Eru Iluvatar. Now if you could just let me and my large spider friend into the Ormal and Illuin National Park that would be great

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Been re-reading the hobbit and for an immortal demi-god Gandalf is a real sassy pants

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Cease to Hope posted:

as far as i can tell all of the maiar are just huge dickholes

The song of creation is just an endless diss track and the Ungoliant got roasted

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Next time some dumb motherfucker talks poo poo about my boy Tom Bombadil I need to remind them of the excruciating Beorn chapter of the Hobbit. Its a motherfuckin clip show episode, in a book!

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Dwarf eyesight is cannonically really poor, they can barely see a boat capable of ferrying several dwarves from a distance of 12 yards or in non middle earth made up units 11 meters

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Edgar Allen Ho posted:

*Bilbo Baggins voice* 10.9728 metres

<adds rounding to "list of things bilbo baggins hates>

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Holy poo poo, Dwarves, a deer can cross a river in a single jump that you have difficulty seeing across. Invent some glasses

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I explicitly place the blame of DnD adventures having tedious food and water tracking on the Mirkwood section of the Hobbit, but sweet god the Dwarves completely lack pattern recognition.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



The lord of the rings lacks enough people calling each other Attercop and Tomnoddy, the latter of which is an insult so reviled and well known spiders living in the woods know and hate it.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Viggo Mortenson Not Invited Back to Cast Reunion after T-word Scandal

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I feel like the films make the Spiders of Mirkwood too large. They die to thrown rocks and a dagger kills them instantly when it hits their back segment and a weakened toe kick to the face still sends them reeling. They should be like, dog sized.

Im also not sure how the dwarves got captured since they were in the circle where the forest elves were eating and where the magic that repels the spiders was but look gently caress it.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Ok the scale on this map is just messed up. If the long lake is a two day long row for trained boatmen the thing can't be less than 30 miles and more likely would be closer to about 120 miles in length. The hell is it so teeny tiny itsy bitsy on the goddamn map. It should be dwarfing (haha) the lonely mountain and if it were at scale Mirkwood is like a few thousand miles across

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I do want to say I appreciate that the "master" of Lake Town comes across as loathing a good portion of his citizenry and was absolutely going to send the dwarves + bilbo back to be imprisoned by the elves until his fantasy fox news addlepated populace demanded the dwarves be let to go to the mountain

Barudak
May 7, 2007



The hottest fire of smaug is the absolute roasting he gives the dwarven race

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I dunno why it drives me wild when illustrated versions go wild with their interpretation of what well described things in the book are but this in particular is sticking with me because the end of the gollum encounter requires gollum to be small enough for Bilbo to jump over him.

In other hobbit news I fuckin love Lord of Exposition Thorin dumping on you the entire backstory of Thrush birds so when that thing shows up later to bail out the humans of the lake* its not a complete deus ex machina

*Most inbred humans in middle earth 2 ages running

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Alright team, time to track down a first edition and achieve full pedantry.

The Hobbit is an excellent bedtime reading story as its a bunch of short adventures, goofy asides, and a bunch of weird anachronisms that you should just treat as translation errors/readability choices from the source material.

Reminder the hobbit film starts with talking all about the Arkenstone, a thing that only matters to Thorin and isn't introduced in the book until 3/4ths in and ultimately gets buried with him.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Yeah Bilbo does not get in the boat in second edition, for sure.

The arkenstone feels like it would eventually become a Silmalril if Tolkein had time to do his planned third hobbit revision

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Look, I know we've spent this whole book hyping up Smaug and having the Dwarves accomplish absolutely gently caress all, but what if some rando who goes unnamed for the first several paragraphs he speaks in beats Smaug in a single shot over the course of about a page?

Reminder Dwarves are trash and Aule did a bad job.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



You see if we grade all dwarves on a curve of "ok if you expect absolutely nothing from them" then you'll see most dwarves can sometimes jump over this low bar.

Thorin's first act after finding out Smaug is dead is to lock the doors of the Lonely Mountain and tell the humans outside who gave him food and shelter in his time of need to get hosed.

indigi posted:

to be fair this particular catastrophe was Gandalfís fault

Gandalf is only at fault in so far as he expected the dwarves to be capable of basic things like pattern recognition and "thinking for two goddamn minutes about how to kill smaug and telling their point man anything about them"

Edit: Gimli, son of Gloin (useless), son of Groin and Bard, father of Bain, father of Brand, father of Bard 2 (non cannonical) leads me to believe some familiesg got discounts on initial letters

Barudak fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jun 9, 2021

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I don't think dwarves are jewish, they just remind me shirkers I know in real life. You could 100% have an equitable trading relationship with Dwarves and what have you but when it comes time to do something that requires actual Dwarven sacrifice they won't be there.

Also the book is like "oh some humans started living on the edge mirkwood between it and the misty mountains" and like, who are these idiots. Esgaroth at least has a deeply symbiotic relationship with the elves and is made out of the descendents of Dale but what idiot is like "hell yeah, let me get all up in between gobbos and magic death forest" Rohan probably, they seem dumb.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



sweet geek swag posted:

They sell them wine.

Also various foodstuffs, very notably apples. Their is a discussion of an elaborate farming system surrounding much of the land around the lake so I would guess in addition to that non forest game (grazing animals) food is also supplied to the Elves this way. In addition more trade from southern lands of elves and humans is routed this way, so Esgaroth is vital to managing this. Should Dale be rebuilt it'll become an even more critical juncture city

The Elves even have people in town when the Dwarves show up and the Master of Esgaroth is going to hand the dwarves over until the fox news citizens yell him down. Actually, given the timelines established a little later in the book, it seems like the Elf King 100% let the Dwarves attempt the mountain rather than recapture them so he doesn't come across super great either.

Edit: Presumably based on the Elves songs in addition to meat and apples, berries also come via the barrel route, but its not fully clear if Esgaroth produces those or is a clearing house since the trade also comes from human and elven kingdoms in the south

Barudak fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jun 10, 2021

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Im reading through the hobbit a few pages a night so its not like I retain all this knowledge on my own. Its a neat illustrated version but honestly it looks exactly like how a friend if mine draws so its throwing me. Got another set for the Lord of the Rings with more classical art that Im gonna start soon so Im drowning over here in complaints about nobody drawing bilbo's looted mithril shirt correctly.

Its also funny to me that Thorin is like "look if I can't have all the gold I'd rather it go to my cousin than anyone in need"

Barudak
May 7, 2007



SlothfulCobra posted:



gently caress this guy.

The wood elf king's one main trait is "Loves Bling" and this makes him look like drab super gollum, dammit Rankin and/or Bass. Its one of the things I appreciate in actually reading the hobbit is that the Elf king comes across as deeply mired in the physical world, just as greedy (honestly moreso since his reasoning is shallow) than Thorin, and not particularly Elf-stereotype.

I 100% understand why Thorin does what he does calling his cousin, there is no reason not to if you are in his shoes, but still I get a kick out of his overwhelming aura of "NO SOLICITORS" that the initial human/elf scouts don't even say anything back to him and just gently caress off.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Thorin and pals wandered into Thranduil's kingdom and refused to say anything about who they were or why they were trespassing.

And/or had a love triangle with his son, depending who you ask.

They also interrupted three different parties in the woods to do it. Shoulda listened to Beorn, the filler arc.


Not related to anything above but Rivendell came across to me in the hobbit as Elrond's vacation spot that used to be in a way nicer neighborhood but he's not moving dammit this place has meaning instead of like, this beautiful tranquility and repose symbol of elf society.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



In the beginning, God made a good song. God then thought, I should create more beings so they can do guest tracks and thus the story of how if you make it you don't have to bring all your old friends with you.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I am now a Sea of Rhun truther because despite the absolutely massive size of the thing on the map it is only 75 miles across while the itty bitty bo bitty Long Lake on the map is around least 65 miles across at minimum.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Zesty posted:

Arenít the maps itís on kind of bare in that section? Like itís not very well traveled or known by the people in the west.

It was ruled by Gondor, somehow, and recently enough that the Stewards were already in place. The horn of gondor is from some creature that lived out by the sea of Rhun, apparently.

Somewhere further east of that the never mentioned again after the hobbit "were wyrms" live

indigi posted:

maybe it's a mercator projection

But mirkwood seems to be somewhat accurately sized as "gently caress off huge"

Barudak
May 7, 2007



An elf's teenage goth poetry phase is both brutal for the audience and longer than most human life spans

Barudak
May 7, 2007



You know Im really coming around on Bard, heir of Girion, Lord of Dale, Sasser of Dwarves.

Finishing up the hobbit I appreciate Tolkein saying the dwarf rings didn't corrupt the dwarves because they were already greed addled idiots self destructively navel gazing at wealth. Sauron must have felt real stupid giving them seven rings, especially when almost half got themselves killed and rings destroyed by dragons. All 9 of the human rings stayed in tact, only 1 dwarf ring lasted on a living persons finger to 70 years prior to the lord of the rings.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Yeah, Gandalf runs silent most of the time. He doesn't really ever do big magic unless he absolutley has to and relies a lot on mundane things like "hitting a goblin in the loving face with a sword"

Gimli cannot be called a failson because that implies his dad ever ascended beyond the illustrious rank of "coattail rider"

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Cease to Hope posted:

a failson in a long line of failsons

In tolkein naming I assume that would be

Failson, son of Faildad, son of Failpatriarch

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Thorin is a real poo poo but my god Dain you are a terrible commander. "Hrm lets not wait for allied reinforcement to break this stalemate and charge right now into a numbers disadvantage"

Also I understand why the humans say they need the gold but, its very tangential to what they actually need since who the hell is going to send them houses down the river. Is there a middle earth trailer home company upstream?

This whole problem could have been fixed by having the humans just crash on Thorin's couch for a season or two.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Its mentioned in the hobbit that Smaug went straight to attacking Esgaroth, expecting to be able to kill the survivors and destroy their food later so much of the farm infrastructure is intact. Im not saying food isn't a concern, it 100% is, its just the housing is the more pressing priority.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Gandalf took 17 years to tell Frodo about the One Ring because he was going to do it tomorrow but like, today is about some pipe leaf.

<wakes up in a haze in gondor holding o page showing how to determine one-ringness> "OooooooOoOoOoOooOoOoOoOOOOOOH poo poo!" <starts sprinting in his bathrobe towards the Shire>

Barudak
May 7, 2007



RIP Thorin, you sucked to the end and were buried in a place you ruled for a week with two pieces of treasure you didn't possess for most of the story. Thanks for getting only your Nephews killed.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



On one hand, Gandalf shows up in the shire like once every 20-50 years and lets his reputation carry him.

On the other hand to immortal manifestations of celestial beings thats probably a smothering pace and Elrond is like "Gandalf, I'm sick of you crashing on my couch isn't it time you got a job?"

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Barudak
May 7, 2007



skasion posted:

No. Gandalf says he thinks that dragon fire could maybe have destroyed the other rings of power, but not the One.

There is no think, the dwarves lost 4/7 rings gifted to them to Dragon's fire. Unclear if a chronic Dwarf issue or if everybody except the Oakenshields pissed off one extremely motivated Dragon.


Arcsquad12 posted:

Bigger question is would Sauron have been able to challenge Smaug if Smaug possessed the ring? I'm gonna go with "probably" because we don't know how strong Smaug is compared to other dragons of the First Age and since dragons are artificial creations it's questionable whether any but the greatest like Glaurrung or Ancalagon could challenge a Maiar.

I know what the one ring does gets loosey goosey but I would assume if a Dragon can wield the one ring it would at best experience it the way that dwarves did by making it enjoy being a stupid rear end in a top hat more than it already does until its passing out on piles of gold in a random town square. The Robert Downey Jr. of Dragons

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