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The majority of what I know about Tolkien's world building at this point is from his nonfiction writing (letters, academic stuff) and the Blind Guardian album about the Silmarillion. Edgar Allen Ho posted:but is it for reproduction or just for pleasure? As much as Tolkien talks about elf-loving afaik he doesn't talk that much about orc loving other than that at one point it was the same, so presumably yeah. Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhmqtoUxqZg
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Mar 27, 2021 18:14
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indigi posted:this is the same instinct behind people posting what their precocious 8 year old supposedly said on Twitter Attributing things you want to say to other people is a classic move. Dao De Jing, for example, is framed as "This super old super wise guy told this to a guard before he disappeared into the wilderness never to be heard from again." The Constitution of the Athenians is almost certainly by a "Pseudo Xenophon" who just pretended to be Xenophon. And of course one of the most famous pieces of Western fiction, Don Quixote, has a pretty elaborate framing device making fun of this whole process. Tsaedje posted:There's also inspiration from real world mythologies where there are different versions that don't line up perfectly because oral history + passage of time. How many balrogs were there? Thousands, a handful? He could change his mind to suit whatever story he wanted to tell. Unreliable narrator is probably the wrong term, but if you have the framing device that you're just recording a history/mythology that's been passed down you can get around any times you've changed your mind along the way with 'some accounts say this, others say that' and be done with it without any of it being 'wrong'. Tolkien's love of iron age poetry really does rule and it's a good approach to fiction to be like "nobody fuckin knows how many balrogs there were."
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Apr 7, 2021 01:33
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Barudak posted:Dwarf eyesight is cannonically really poor, they can barely see a boat capable of ferrying several dwarves from a distance of 12 yards or in non middle earth made up units 11 meters Dwarves will become the major powers in the world when they get eyeglasses.
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May 12, 2021 15:49
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Barudak posted:Edit: Gimli, son of Gloin (useless), son of Groin and Bard, father of Bain, father of Brand, father of Bard 2 (non cannonical) leads me to believe some familiesg got discounts on initial letters That's consonance! No respect for classic poetic considerations I swear.
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Jun 9, 2021 14:34
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Oh right, five failsons. Totally unnecessary roughness against two dudes who did a lot for saying the bar was "survive to adulthood and don't ruin the family's good name." Pennywise the Frown posted:I don't know why but I just thought of this again. This is a trick question right?
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Jun 16, 2021 14:30
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indigi posted:to be fair if he’d waited much longer Saruman might have beaten him to the punch I'll bow to superior expertise of other posters but my read was kind of that Saruman moving too fast was part of what screwed the whole thing up. Saruman's failure at Helm's Deep comes down in a lot of ways to it being a rush job - he does a literal hasty assault, with an army that is not nearly well-trained or cohesive enough to keep his complex plans in order. Doing a better assault would have taken more time; having an army capable of doing that better assault - or to withstanding reversals in combat, among other issues - would have taken yet more time. Treebeard diagnoses Saruman like this: Treebeard posted:He has a mind of metal and wheels; and he does not care for growing things, except as far as they serve him for the moment. Saruman moves fast and breaks things - he makes plans that are complex and fragile and neither account well for contingency nor for the needs or behaviors of his followers. It's hard to say what would have happened had Saruman taken more time - the ring quest did kind of force him to move - but also it's part of who Saruman is that his plans are like clocks and he just moves out with them as soon as he can get them up to bare minimum with little resilience or contingency. All of this leads to the unification of the armies of men before Sauron even gets out there. It's not nearly the main point with Saruman, since I think most of Tolkien's intent is conveyed even if you don't think that hard about the military metaphor for Saruman's industrialism and lack of trust in people, but I do think it's a neat little set of things.
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Jun 17, 2021 18:02
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| # ¿ Apr 16, 2024 14:26 |
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indigi posted:for all his haste Saruman still wins at Helm’s Deep without Merry and Pippin buffooning their way into Treebeard, even allowing for Gandalf showing up with Eomer. honestly the good guys only win in LotR due to four consecutive lottery tickets hitting for jackpots, Gandalf just had a hot hand at the craps table The ents show up after the decisive moment (Theoden's cavalry sally). The effect of the ents isn't whether or not Saruman loses the battle (he has already), it's whether or not he has any force left afterward. Even that's dubious, because without the ents there's still Gandalf's cavalry force fresh and ready to pick off the routing forces, though likely to do so less efficiently or cleanly. In the interest of clarity this is what the battle looks like in order of events per https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Hornburg 1. Battle of Isen Ford 2. Theoden and his retreating forces link up and invest the fortress at Helm's Deep 3. Saruman's forces fill and overrun Helm's Dike (1st line) 4. Skirmishing commences and first attempt at breaking the gate with an improvised ram, which is defeated by a sally 5. Ladder assault coordinated with assault via a culvert, fails. 6. Wall is breached with explosives, defenders retreat from 2nd line to 3rd line of defense. 7. Gate to the keep is breached but is countercharged decisively by Theoden & Aragorn, forcing Saruman's forces all the way back to Helm's Dike. 8. Gimli & Eomer sally from the caves and push them back even further. At this point the attack is irrecoverable. 9. Gandalf & Treebeard show up, turning a defeat into a rout as the Dunlendings surrender and the Uruk-hai get utterly owned. I also don't think we're supposed to assume luck is a major factor. It's not consistent with Tolkien's writing or philosophy to have poo poo that just happens without being tied to some sort of moral meaning.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:23
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