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indigi
Jul 20, 2004

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sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

COULD BALROGS FLY......

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indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

wait this is an actual question that I know I knew the answer to at some point but forgot, how do orcs reproduce? is it all asexual like the Uruk-hai?

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

reignofevil posted:

I think Balrogs had wings but also I think that how gravity works means those wings probably wouldn't be sufficient to allow them to actually fly, not that such things would be a big deal to Tolkien.

yeah but if dragons could fly balrogs probably could definitely fly. I don't think they could fly though because then the balrog would of just flew over Durin's bridge

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Tulip posted:

The majority of what I know about Tolkien's world building at this point is from his nonfiction writing (letters, academic stuff) and the Blind Guardian album about the Silmarillion.


As much as Tolkien talks about elf-loving afaik he doesn't talk that much about orc loving other than that at one point it was the same, so presumably yeah.

Also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhmqtoUxqZg

yeah but elves autoperish if theyíre about to be raped, so idk how the first generation of orcs was bred in utumno given that they would have been direct offspring of the original elves, nor if you could even breed that trait out of them. maybe Melkor invented some form of IVF

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

do orcs go to the halls of mandos???

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Sylink posted:

Glorfindel owns , as well as fingolfins death

yah agreed. freaking Hurin. way to go dipshit

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

sweet geek swag posted:

A lot of older novels had this obsession with documenting how the story came down to the audience

this is the same instinct behind people posting what their precocious 8 year old supposedly said on Twitter

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

I like the theory that Gandalf is Manwe

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Meatgrinder posted:

This is still my favorite thing anyone has ever written on any part of Tolkien's novels:

https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

this rules

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

yeah thatís cause Iím growin when I see nanna gimli

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

I mean if a shield can stop a massive vehicle moving at c then why couldnít it stop the Death Star laser

like shields couldnít even stop the Millennium Falcon from landing on Starkiller base in TFA idk how it would stop a determined ramming

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

a dude in an LotR meme group claimed that Theoden's decision to spare Wormtongue was a thematic departure from the original text and was Peter Jackson's "postmodernist" commentary on the Bush administration. I owned him so thoroughly that he left the group and blocked me

I have nobody in my life who might even understand that last sentence, let alone care about it (which admittedly only I do), but I had to tell someone

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

iirc most of the preliminary filming was 98-99 which is odd to think about. In terms of the zeitgeist they definitely feel like 9/11 era movies.

I mean thatís largely because they set the standard for what 9/11 era movies would try to be

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

what the gently caress scene is that

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

why is Bilbo dressed like he just came from a production of The Night Before Christmas

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Cease to Hope posted:

The pedantic answer is that this is an illustration for the first edition of the Hobbit, where there's no reference to Gollum's size at all. You're talking about something added in the second edition's edits.

donít they both fit into a small boat? plus Bilbo does hop over him. his size is pretty well implied if not explicitly defined

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

I canít believe I somehow only read the first edition. Iíve read multiple copies and I remember Gollum paddling his boat around

E: oh you mean Bilbo. you might be right about that

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

the only S tier Valar are Yavanna and Nienna everyone else is corny for the most part. also what were they doing for all those millennia before the Elves awoke that they had absolutely zero plan of action. címon dumbasses

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Barudak posted:

Look, I know we've spent this whole book hyping up Smaug and having the Dwarves accomplish absolutely gently caress all, but what if some rando who goes unnamed for the first several paragraphs he speaks in beats Smaug in a single shot over the course of about a page?

Reminder Dwarves are trash and Aule did a bad job.

to be fair this particular catastrophe was Gandalfís fault

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Franco killed tens of thousands of priests and nuns, probably more than the Republicans. it wasnít a religious issue, it was a political issue (for the most part); Catholics who supported Franco and conservatism got killed by socialists and anarchists, Catholics who supported the Republicans were killed by fascists. only one of them made it official state policy though


chances are Tolkien was just dumb enough to uncritically believe British reporting on the issue, which wouldnít be surprising

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

also itís not like men are any more trustworthy than dwarves. they canít even depend on each other

also what do the men of Esgaroth have to offer to the elves of Mirkwood to maintain that relationship? if it was mentioned in the book I forget it

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Thorin and pals wandered into Thranduil's kingdom and refused to say anything about who they were or why they were trespassing.

they refused to create joinder with him

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

maybe it's a mercator projection

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

the Elves never seemed particularly interested in exploring, especially Middle Earth. a bunch of them became bored of traveling during the March and just stayed wherever they got tired. the ones who came back did so for a very specific reason and had no real interest in traveling further East than they had to to either find Morgoth or escape the drowning of Beleriand

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

the problem is that even if the Ring stayed lost forever Sauron was definitely going to win in the end, nobody could get it together to meaningfully oppose him and Gondor and Rohan were hanging by a thread after his first attack

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Jazerus posted:

what the hell is up with this "necromancer" guy

my thing is, theyíre all dumbasses. who or what else could it have possibly been? itís either the Witch King, who we should probably deal with, or itís Sauron, meaning heís back, also something we should deal with. thereís nothing in all LotR and extended sources that hints any old dickhead could become magically powerful unless theyíre an Ainu or empowered by one, so they knew it had to be Sauron (or one of his empowered lieutenants)

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

well the elves did go out swinging, they just couldnít really fit in attacks on Dol Guldur etc into the movies, so they showed up at Helmís Deep instead

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

overall Tolkienís cosmology is bunk because hobbits exist without explanation

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Hobbits wrote the red book which includes the Hobbit LotR and Silmarillion!

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

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I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

which is to say, another ~40 minutes of suffering

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

There are three more PJ films where we get the attack on Dul Guldur, as well as other important scenes like making it clear that Galadriel was loving Gandalf

Tell me where is Gandalf... for I much desire to speak with him

no thereís an attack on Dol Guldur concurrent with the battle at Morannon

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

idk how itís more flashy than sending the prince of Mirkwood, future Steward of Gondor, the heir of Isildur, and a freaking Maiar

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

The plan was for a lot of them to probably not go further alongside Frodo than back across the mountains until Gandalf died. And Aragorn in particular was unknown to Sauron until he reveals himself in the palantir.

yeah but thatís kind of my point, itís not like heís tracking everyone with GPS. even someone with the blood of Isildur is completely unknown to him. I can see why Gandalf using some spells in the vicinity of Mordor might ping his alarm system but as long as Glorfy doesnít go about singing Noldor songs across the plains of Gorgoroth he should be fine. or send Elladan and Elrohir if youíre worried, nobody knows what those dorks get up to

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Lemniscate Blue posted:

Oh right, five failsons.

wtf one got an assist on the Witch King and the other killed a troll thatís at the top of the list of any Hobbit accomplishments. more impressive than anything Gimli or Legolas or Aragorn did. oh wow we ran really far one time. cool

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

well to be fair thereís not much else to get up to in the Shire. the most renowned Hobbit ever is mainly remembered for riding a pony and the most notorious hobbit is famous for going on a long vacation with some friends

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

how is Gandalf not a failson he didnít do anything of note for the first 20k+ years of Ardaís existence and almost got punked by Sauron on 1% battery

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

to be fair if heíd waited much longer Saruman might have beaten him to the punch

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

for all his haste Saruman still wins at Helmís Deep without Merry and Pippin buffooning their way into Treebeard, even allowing for Gandalf showing up with Eomer. honestly the good guys only win in LotR due to four consecutive lottery tickets hitting for jackpots, Gandalf just had a hot hand at the craps table

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

Tulip posted:

The ents show up after the decisive moment (Theoden's cavalry sally). The effect of the ents isn't whether or not Saruman loses the battle (he has already), it's whether or not he has any force left afterward. Even that's dubious, because without the ents there's still Gandalf's cavalry force fresh and ready to pick off the routing forces, though likely to do so less efficiently or cleanly.

oh I don't mean on the day - if he doesn't have to worry about the Ents loving up Isengard he's well positioned to attack again when the cavalry won't be nearly as effective. even taking things as they happened though, without the Huorns finishing off all the Uruk-hai Theoden has to leave behind more men to guard Rohan from pillaging bands of orcs and Sauron might successfully take Minas Tirith


Tulip posted:

I also don't think we're supposed to assume luck is a major factor. It's not consistent with Tolkien's writing or philosophy to have poo poo that just happens without being tied to some sort of moral meaning.

I don't know if he meant it to be a series of dice rolls, but it was in the end. Bard killing Smaug and Gandalf killing the balrog - depriving Sauron of potentially lethal allies - were both pretty lucky, as was Pippin forcing Aragorn's hand with the palantir, Bilbo finding the Ring in the first place, Merry and Pippin bumping into Treebeard, Gollum tumbling into the lava, basically everything that happened to Frodo and Sam between Cirith Ungol and Mt. Doom (I'm pretty sure Sam outright says it), getting lost in the Old Forest, Sam being there at all - none of this was planned, it was all ultimately good fortune (even though most of it didn't seem so at the time). without any one of those things happening, Sauron probably wins

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indigi
Jul 20, 2004

picture me workin McDonald's!
I'd rather pull a mac on you
sorry Ms. Jackson, but I'm packin


Pillbug

arguing that there's no dramatic tension in the whole story is consistent at least

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