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CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.



MonsterEnvy posted:

Yes he can’t affect people with Morphed bodies. Eijiro for another example would not lose his tail. However with his quirk erased he would not be able to move it.

Eijiro is Kirishima's first name. Tailman is the very similarly named Ojiro Mashirao.

Anyway, I can't speculate on the fights because I did read the manga but I'd like to speculate on the stuff they added that wasn't in the manga - I hope they give at least partial reviews for all the students after their matches and I'd particularly like them to expand on some poo poo Kendo says after her match.

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Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


The eps out. This fight is pretty controversial so I'm going to avoid saying anything about the result. First of all the flashbacks and reused footage were overdone this episode. 4 minutes until new footage, 1 minute flashback in the middle of the episode and reusing an earlier scene from the episode all really hurt the pacing a lot I think. They're trying to avoid what happened last season when they ended it in the middle of an arc but a quarter of your runtime shouldn't be reused footage.

In general though I like this battle because all of 1-B's members come off looking super strong and cool. They had a pretty packed team. Manga's power is great: Versatile and very strong. And in case it wasn't clear, yes Mushroom Girl could have done that move mush sooner but held back because of how aggro it is. She's got one of the most OP quirks in the series. Don't underestimate the power of mushrooms. Ever.

The extended pacing makes it less impressive but Kendo had the whole battle planned out before it even started and everything happened like she thought it would except for Momo's lucky bag. Also smashing tungsten and dragging Momo + a cannon around Manga's massive Onomatopoeia makes her one of the strongest characters in either class. Before this everyone made fun of Big Hands for being a lovely quirk but little did they know Kendo was secretly Best Girl all along.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.



I still can't stand that "I don't feel like I won" line when Kendo outmaneuvered Momo at every turn. I want to like Momo but I don't like being told she's the most dangerous member of the team and not shown that. I'm also pretty incredulous at the idea of Momo being the most dangerous person on that team when Tokoyami exists.

The 1-B team was good though. Manga seemed like the weakest member of the team and he was still pretty cool (although he apparently needs to learn some martial arts). Mushroom girl is just OP but I respect her.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010


Nephthys posted:

The eps out. This fight is pretty controversial so I'm going to avoid saying anything about the result. First of all the flashbacks and reused footage were overdone this episode. 4 minutes until new footage, 1 minute flashback in the middle of the episode and reusing an earlier scene from the episode all really hurt the pacing a lot I think. They're trying to avoid what happened last season when they ended it in the middle of an arc but a quarter of your runtime shouldn't be reused footage.

In general though I like this battle because all of 1-B's members come off looking super strong and cool. They had a pretty packed team. Manga's power is great: Versatile and very strong. And in case it wasn't clear, yes Mushroom Girl could have done that move mush sooner but held back because of how aggro it is. She's got one of the most OP quirks in the series. Don't underestimate the power of mushrooms. Ever.

The extended pacing makes it less impressive but Kendo had the whole battle planned out before it even started and everything happened like she thought it would except for Momo's lucky bag. Also smashing tungsten and dragging Momo + a cannon around Manga's massive Onomatopoeia makes her one of the strongest characters in either class. Before this everyone made fun of Big Hands for being a lovely quirk but little did they know Kendo was secretly Best Girl all along.


Honestly creating shrooms in someone's windpipe sounds way too dangerous to be using on anyone you aren't prepared to kill, let alone for just a class exercise. That felt a bit inappropriate as a way of winning. Momo does deserve a bit of heat for that result because like..flashbangs. She's used them before (in a flashback in this same episode even!) and they're a really easy way to secure victory or escape in situations like that. Not to mention that she was in that exact same situation in the tournament and apparently still hasn't prepared any counter. Her quirk has debatably the most heroic potential out of any shown but she's still really bad at deciding what she should use apparently.

Starsnostars
Jan 17, 2009

The Master of Magnetism


The contrast between the two teams being that mushroom girl was willing to use lethal force to win while Momo created a canon that was designed to support the team rather than attack with everyone watching shocked that at first glance it looked like she had created something so dangerous was strange. Is the take away from the fight that it would have been better to make a weapon that could have blown Kendo and the rest of the 1-B team away? I don't think that is what was intended but I thought that the fight was going to end with 1-B disqualified after the mushroom stunt.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Zeron posted:

Honestly creating shrooms in someone's windpipe sounds way too dangerous to be using on anyone you aren't prepared to kill, let alone for just a class exercise. That felt a bit inappropriate as a way of winning.

Starsnostars posted:

The contrast between the two teams being that mushroom girl was willing to use lethal force to win



Actually The type of mushroom that she used to do this is a real thing, and while it chokes you out, it's actually quite hard for it to be fatal.

Carlosologist
Oct 13, 2013

Revelry in the Dark



Mushroom girl is the best if we’re being honest

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


Starsnostars posted:

The contrast between the two teams being that mushroom girl was willing to use lethal force to win while Momo created a canon that was designed to support the team rather than attack with everyone watching shocked that at first glance it looked like she had created something so dangerous was strange. Is the take away from the fight that it would have been better to make a weapon that could have blown Kendo and the rest of the 1-B team away? I don't think that is what was intended but I thought that the fight was going to end with 1-B disqualified after the mushroom stunt.

Zeron posted:

Honestly creating shrooms in someone's windpipe sounds way too dangerous to be using on anyone you aren't prepared to kill, let alone for just a class exercise. That felt a bit inappropriate as a way of winning. Momo does deserve a bit of heat for that result because like..flashbangs. She's used them before (in a flashback in this same episode even!) and they're a really easy way to secure victory or escape in situations like that. Not to mention that she was in that exact same situation in the tournament and apparently still hasn't prepared any counter. Her quirk has debatably the most heroic potential out of any shown but she's still really bad at deciding what she should use apparently.

To be fair being able to non-lethally incapacitate your opponents is extremely important to a hero since that's their primary way to end a fight. If Shemage was a villain Tokoyami would be dead. You shouldn't assume an opponent is beaten because you've tied them up if you don't know the extent of their quirk. In contrast Kendo won because she knocked Momo the gently caress out first opportunity.

There are infinite things Momo could do with her quirk. She could have just put spikes on the shields for one. Horikoshi just doesn't want her to excel in combat for whatever reason. Or he couldn't think of a way to do it, he wasn't doing great for this part of the manga.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

Momo is definitely “why is this character even in the story” tier useless, which makes it pretty weird that the manga still talks her up.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Yeah, it's worth noting that Horikoshi was having some pretty big health problems during this arc in the manga. So if things seem a bit off that's probably a factor

Hidingo Kojimba
Mar 29, 2010



Flesnolk posted:

Momo is definitely “why is this character even in the story” tier useless, which makes it pretty weird that the manga still talks her up.

I think it's just because really good shounen battles involving "create anything" powers are actually really hard to write without either being gimmicky or just trivializing the fight.

The fact that here's several times in MHA where we've seen characters with really powerful quirks sidelined because they would have made a particular arc trivial makes me think Horikoshi's just not suited for writing Jojo-style "use weird powers in crazy ways" fights. MHA has always been at its best when it's focused on more conventional superheroics, whether playing a long with it or putting a twist on it.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011



christmas boots posted:

Yeah, it's worth noting that Horikoshi was having some pretty big health problems during this arc in the manga. So if things seem a bit off that's probably a factor

The chapters at this time were about half length as well, which might be why the anime is trying to pad things out a bit.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008






Gravy Boat 2k

Immediately gotta run in with "YEAH BUT HOW GREAT WERE THEY THOUGH"



Like, completely oblivious to how much shittier it comes across when it's said after the fact.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



christmas boots posted:

Yeah, it's worth noting that Horikoshi was having some pretty big health problems during this arc in the manga. So if things seem a bit off that's probably a factor

Don't care. Death of the Author (via mushroom).

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010



I think the “Didn’t feel like I won” line is supposed to mean that while Kendo might have planned out her strategy to counter Momo and executed it perfectly, Momo didn’t panic under pressure and managed to come up with a strategy on the fly with the canon and care package. And if Mushroom girl didn’t use her possibly lethal mushroom suffocation, or Kendo didn’t have Mushroom girl, her team would have lost. In Kendo’s mind it was luck that Momo’s counter strategy didn’t shift momentum to Momo’s team winning

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Yeah, Kendo was ultimately outstrategized but still won through sheer force of their teams Quirks. It's still a victory, but it's not the one she wanted

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




Haha, class B's powers are so stupid. I enjoy it.

Nighthand
Nov 4, 2009

what horror the gas



Mushroom girl is terrifying and I love her.

Momo is completely wasted as a character tbh. Like, how is step 1 not immediately whip out a bunch of fungicide for everyone the moment the battle starts? For someone whose planning abilities keep getting hyped up, it really just comes across more as deus ex machina.

Manga dude is horrifying in a kind of visceral "can you imagine living in a world where a dude's head is just a floating manga panel?" kind of way. Quirks manifest in a lot of ways with physical changes and some of them are quite body horror but that one takes the cake for me.

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




Manga guy's ability being a classic Looney Tunes bit makes me want for there to be the Cartoon Hero: Hammerspace! They can pull anything from behind their back, as long as it's funny!

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


I wasn't paying attention to see if they put it in the anime but when he's talking the words actually appear on his head too. It's a real speech bubble.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.



Nighthand posted:

Momo is completely wasted as a character tbh. Like, how is step 1 not immediately whip out a bunch of fungicide for everyone the moment the battle starts? For someone whose planning abilities keep getting hyped up, it really just comes across more as deus ex machina.

I don't think she knew what Mushroom Girl's powers were. I mean yeah, obviously her quirk is mushrooms, you can tell that at a glance, but what does that mean? Could be anything from "makes mushrooms grow" to "has all the... powers? of a mushroom."

Part of the training exercise is explicitly that the two classes don't really know what the other students can do. They might know the bare basics from the Sports Festival and other various interactions, but they've both done a lot of training separately since then. See for example the first team fight where Kirishima remembered Tsubaraba's solid breath being easily breakable because Bakugo did it at the Sport's Festival, but it turns out he's gotten stronger since then, and the 1B crew being unaware of Kaminari's trackers enabling him to fire in a more direct line.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS



I laughed too much at Sugarman asking what will happen to Comicman's onomatopoeias overseas.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

The galling thing about this matchup is not just the 1-A team losing, but how incompetent they all look doing it. It ends up looking like the B class should've been the protagonists instead.

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good


i never found momo's loss here to be as galling as some other folks seem to, mostly because she has aoyama on her team, and while i love him as a comedy bit, the guy can't fight for poo poo

like, your suit specifically has a bunch of different opening for you to route your lasers. just shoot one of the ones pointed at this dude giving you a bear hug. at least momo manages to help the other members of her team and slow down the other teams leader. aoyama does jack poo poo, especially since hagakure can also get rid of shadows. i posit that you slot in any other member of class 1-a besides aoyama and they win that fight

and i do agree that the real failing of this fight is how weird it feels for how much risk the students are supposed to take harming other students. maybe recovery girl's quirk gets rid of tbi, but lamenting that students aren't doing giving each other strong enough blows to the head, or using sleeper holds or whatever in a training exercise just feels uncomfortably reckless with the health of the students

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Flesnolk posted:

The galling thing about this matchup is not just the 1-A team losing, but how incompetent they all look doing it. It ends up looking like the B class should've been the protagonists instead.

Yeah, despite having the entirety of the first fight to prepare, the 1-A team didn't seem to have any strategy going into this fight beyond "use Tokoyami to scout ahead." Meanwhile, the 1-B team had a multi-pronged plan with backup strategies that they executed perfectly. At the very least you'd think they'd be brainstorming ways they could combine their quirks or useful equipment Yaoyorozu could provide for the team from the beginning, but no, they pretty much relied on making it up as they went along. And it nearly worked just based on the strength of their quirks, if it wasn't for mushroom girl's trump card. They need to work on their planning skills.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Manga is basically an alt version of Scratchman Apoo

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008






Gravy Boat 2k

1-A was on the back foot for all but one moment of the fight

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Though once again the Mushrooms that Kinoko used on Tokoyami is not lethal. It will incapacitate you pretty certainly, but even for people with lung issues chances of death are very low given that she carries a cure for it and it only lasts a couple hours.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.



MonsterEnvy posted:

Though once again the Mushrooms that Kinoko used on Tokoyami is not lethal. It will incapacitate you pretty certainly, but even for people with lung issues chances of death are very low given that she carries a cure for it and it only lasts a couple hours.

The anime didn't make this very clear since she references a type of mushroom, but he's not coughing and choking because he's being exposed to poisonous mushrooms. If that was all that was happening, Kuroiri would be bothered by them too. Tokoyami is choking because she grew a mushroom inside his windpipe. The type of mushroom at that point is irrelevant - he's choking because there's a blockage.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


CuwiKhons posted:

The anime didn't make this very clear since she references a type of mushroom, but he's not coughing and choking because he's being exposed to poisonous mushrooms. If that was all that was happening, Kuroiri would be bothered by them too. Tokoyami is choking because she grew a mushroom inside his windpipe. The type of mushroom at that point is irrelevant - he's choking because there's a blockage.

No those are a type of mushroom that can grow in your throat and lungs. (And any other place in your body.) They are not toxic, their spores can just grow there.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:26 on May 2, 2021

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Mushroom girl carrying the team because she just casually decided a near-lethal takedown was sweet kind of sucks and I wish Dark Shadow was like "gently caress this" and just yeeted the gently caress out of those two.

Ending on a tie would have been more fulfilling.

I'm also annoyed at how "omg ew mushrooms" basically took down 3/4 of the team despite them being an annoyance at best for 99% of the fight.

Momo's big liability seems to be "sit in place and turtle with shields" whenever anything gets intense so that *could* be interesting, but it just makes her look like a chump when she could, like, make titanium handcuffs or whatever.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 04:29 on May 2, 2021

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


FilthyImp posted:

Mushroom girl carrying the team because she just casually decided a near-lethal takedown was sweet kind of sucks and I wish Dark Shadow was like "gently caress this" and just yeeted the gently caress out of those two.

Ending on a tie would have been more fulfilling.

I'm also annoyed at how "omg ew mushrooms" basically took down 3/4 of the team despite them being an annoyance at best for 99% of the fight.

The Mushrooms will sap your strength, they are parasites that sap what they grow from. Once too many grow you would not be able to move.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 2, 2021

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.



Gross! But also, it doesn't really matter? Normal mushrooms don't grow out of people's skin or out of metal pipes. Whether the normal version of the mushroom is lethal or not, it's pretty obvious Kinoko can do whatever she wants with mushrooms as long as she has the ambient humidity to do so. So Kinoko has to be very careful with this technique because if she makes them too big, she could definitely kill someone, even if the base version wouldn't. And again, Kuroiri wasn't effected, so Kinoko had to have made them bloom there herself and all the mushrooms we saw her making elsewhere were full sized. If a whole rear end mushroom suddenly appeared inside your lungs, you would probably die, so she's treading a thin line between big enough to incapacitate but not big enough to kill.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


CuwiKhons posted:

Gross! But also, it doesn't really matter? Normal mushrooms don't grow out of people's skin or out of metal pipes. Whether the normal version of the mushroom is lethal or not, it's pretty obvious Kinoko can do whatever she wants with mushrooms as long as she has the ambient humidity to do so. So Kinoko has to be very careful with this technique because if she makes them too big, she could definitely kill someone, even if the base version wouldn't. And again, Kuroiri wasn't effected, so Kinoko had to have made them bloom there herself and all the mushrooms we saw her making were full sized. If a whole rear end mushroom suddenly appeared inside your lungs, you would probably die, so she's treading a thin line between big enough to incapacitate but not big enough to kill.

No those Mushrooms can grown inside you the normal versions. Some poor girl at one point had them in her soft palate and growing mushrooms through her nose.
This is why Kinoko was referencing the lung attacking power of them. As they actually do this in the wild. Tokoyami swallowed the proper spores and Kinoko grew them in there. (She can choose areas to be affected.) The mushrooms growing there cause breathing issues, that are not lethal, but highly debilitating, as they don't actually totally block air flow, cause they are unique in that can move and retract.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Kinoko is yet another hero character that would be extremely dangerous if they were a villain (as with her mushroom ability it seems like killing someone or even multiple people would be an easy task for her).

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good


MonsterEnvy posted:

Though once again the Mushrooms that Kinoko used on Tokoyami is not lethal. It will incapacitate you pretty certainly, but even for people with lung issues chances of death are very low given that she carries a cure for it and it only lasts a couple hours.

fair enough, but tokoyami's options to incapacitate kinoko do carry a significant amount of risk of serious injury and others negatively comment on not using them

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010




You've just got to chalk up wind pipe mushrooms being safe in the same way that Kendo can knock Momo out for minutes at a time without causing major brain damage.

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




You know what's way more heroic than fighting villains, mushroom girl? Feeding the hungry! Mushrooms are tasty and very good for you, if she can spawn them with, let's be real here, magic, she's in the wrong field!

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


MonsterEnvy posted:

No those are a type of mushroom that can grow in your throat and lungs. (And any other place in your body.) They are not toxic, their spores can just grow there.

I uh, do you know anything about infectious diseases? Because an uncontrolled fungal infection in your lungs is Extremely Bad. This is about as bad as if you had telekinesis and you used it to pinch cerebral arteries to knock people out.

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Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Sankara posted:

You know what's way more heroic than fighting villains, mushroom girl? Feeding the hungry! Mushrooms are tasty and very good for you, if she can spawn them with, let's be real here, magic, she's in the wrong field!

And Kaminari would probably do more good for the world just generating clean energy for public use forever than being a hero.

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