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fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

Coxswain Balls posted:

Do the detectives ever shoot their guns in this show? I haven't seen it once yet and so far I like how they don't rely on stuff like action sequences, maybe chasing a perp down the street at most. I get the feeling if it ever happens it's gotta be an oh poo poo moment and I hope it surprises me.

Wait, I just remembered the one where Lt. Van Buren ices an intellectually disabled kid. She was off duty and being mugged for that one though, but the ensuing poo poo show was an alright hook for an episode plot.

Since youíre still going through the show, Iíll throw this in spoilers. The first one isnít much:
In the first 14 seasons, the only times we see any of the cast use their guns are the Van Buren thing you mentioned and one episode that opens with Briscoe and Curtis at the firing range. Thatís it. Now, after that point there are a few in the latter seasons. Fontana shoots and wounds at least one person, and Bernard kills at least one person while protecting a witness, plus Ed Green doing some stuff off camera.

All that said, Iím pretty sure there are multiple individual detectives from SVU with higher body counts than all the officers of Vanilla put together.

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Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me :(

fartknocker posted:



All that said, Iím pretty sure there are multiple individual detectives from SVU with higher body counts than all the officers of Vanilla put together.

so much so that Cregen mentions that Stabler shot 6 people when most NYPD officers never fire their gun once.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

Mooseontheloose posted:

so much so that Cregen mentions that Stabler shot 6 people when most NYPD officers never fire their gun once.

Yeah, Stabler is the obvious one and he alone probably beats all of Vanilla (Never mind all the times he got hurt or beat somebody up and whatnot). Off-hand, Benson has shot a few people over the course of the show, along with Fin and even Cragen at least once each. Amaro was involved in a few, all the insanity in Lakeís last episode, Dodds got shot at least twice but I canít remember if he shot anyone himself, as well as others Iím probably forgetting.

Snorb
Nov 19, 2010


Carisi and Rollins each have at least one each; don't remember Carisi's specifics, but Rollins shot her sister's abusive (ex-?)boyfriend and that spiraled into left field.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Been a long time since I watched it but did D'Onofrio's character even carry a gun on Law and Order:CI?

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

PaybackJack posted:

Been a long time since I watched it but did D'Onofrio's character even carry a gun on Law and Order:CI?

I definitely have the image of him doing the hunched-over gun-pointed-at-the-ground pose, but that could just be because it's such an hilarious image and not because it actually happened.

e: In season 1 he has the faceoff with the guy who had created a fake life as an economic development agent while actually living off money stolen from people who stole it in a bank robbery. It's when the guy is about to shotgun his kids, and Goren talks him into surrendering.

2e: Turns out there's quite the source for this sort of thing.

Hand Knit fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jul 7, 2021

Digital Jedi
May 28, 2007

Wow....that feels good






Fallen Rib

I know Eames shoots at least one person.
Watching suspects in the street, they noticed the police, they ran, one pulled a gun. Believe it was in S01E14
I don't think Goren ever fired his.

Digital Jedi fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jul 7, 2021

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Hand Knit posted:

I definitely have the image of him doing the hunched-over gun-pointed-at-the-ground pose, but that could just be because it's such an hilarious image and not because it actually happened.

e: In season 1 he has the faceoff with the guy who had created a fake life as an economic development agent while actually living off money stolen from people who stole it in a bank robbery. It's when the guy is about to shotgun his kids, and Goren talks him into surrendering.

2e: Turns out there's quite the source for this sort of thing.

I just saw that one the other day it's got quite the roster of guest stars.

Michael Emerson from Lost and a bunch more, Brooke Smith from Silence of the Lambs and Series 6 and Jason Butler Harner from Ozarks.

Digital Jedi
May 28, 2007

Wow....that feels good






Fallen Rib

"I've got to sit there and take it. Not this"

"What are you gonna do?"

"I'm gonna take the governor to court"

Adam Schiff was just the best

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

The M stands for MADE IN CHICAGO


I fell off in the middle of OC and never caught back up and each time I've tried, I just watched episodes of Classic on Peacock instead.

Who wants to talk about the episode where Not Wal Mart bought a bunch of poison Chinese toothpaste?

Also, was the rest of OC any good?

Digital Jedi
May 28, 2007

Wow....that feels good






Fallen Rib

Hey look a crazy person showed up


And surprisingly this was in Oct 2020 not right after 9/11 as I figured it would have been

edit: vvv haha whoops gonna leave it like that

Digital Jedi fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jul 13, 2021

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

The M stands for MADE IN CHICAGO


Digital Jedi posted:


And surprisingly this was in Oct 2020 not right after 9/11 as I figured it would have been

I know you mean 2000 but Rudy showing up on Law and Order 2020 would be pretty wild.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



MJeff posted:

I fell off in the middle of OC and never caught back up and each time I've tried, I just watched episodes of Classic on Peacock instead.

Who wants to talk about the episode where Not Wal Mart bought a bunch of poison Chinese toothpaste?


God, that episode was an overstuffed mess. And all stemming from a pair of pants.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



NBC has decided not to move forward with Law & Order: For the Defense (which will be fairly costly for the network, as they didn't order a pilot and instead gave it a straight-to-series order).

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Timby posted:

NBC has decided not to move forward with Law & Order: For the Defense (which will be fairly costly for the network, as they didn't order a pilot and instead gave it a straight-to-series order).

I guess the verdict is in on Organized Crime.

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

The M stands for MADE IN CHICAGO


Timby posted:

NBC has decided not to move forward with Law & Order: For the Defense (which will be fairly costly for the network, as they didn't order a pilot and instead gave it a straight-to-series order).

That's kinda wack. I was looking forward to that.

Hand Knit posted:

I guess the verdict is in on Organized Crime.

Didn't they already order a second season? Geez, wonder if most of it gets burned off on Peacock.

Man, they don't even wanna make For The Defense as like, something to drive subscriptions to Peacock? What a waste.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



MJeff posted:

Didn't they already order a second season? Geez, wonder if most of it gets burned off on Peacock.

Organized Crime has a full, 22-episode second season ordered and it will premiere on September 23 alongside a two-hour SVU premiere. The following week will have one SVU episode followed by two episodes of Organized Crime.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Yeah, a full season was ordered, but I guess they felt that its limited success was dragged along by "Stabler's back." Because, as you mentioned, the episodes are not actually good.

MJeff
Jun 2, 2011

The M stands for MADE IN CHICAGO


If the returns on Organized Crime are as, uh, not good as they look to the point where they're just not even doing For The Defense, I just wonder if we're gonna get a repeat of TBJ or LA, here.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Hand Knit posted:

Yeah, a full season was ordered, but I guess they felt that its limited success was dragged along by "Stabler's back." Because, as you mentioned, the episodes are not actually good.

Organized Crime wasn't bad, but it was very severely hamstrung by Wolf & Co. refusing to let it exist outside of the shadow of SVU. Out of eight episodes this season, Benson was in seven. That led to it feeling like an SVU side project rather than it having its own identity.

I guess the other problem was that outside of Stabler and Richard Wheatley, the entire cast of characters felt like ciphers. I could barely tell you anyone's name or what their personality is, outside of being / doing whatever a particular scene required at that point in time.

MJeff posted:

If the returns on Organized Crime are as, uh, not good as they look to the point where they're just not even doing For The Defense, I just wonder if we're gonna get a repeat of TBJ or LA, here.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like For the Defense was having trouble with scripts and casting; they had no one cast as of yet and very desperately needed to begin filming soon to make the September 23 premiere date.

Timby fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 15, 2021

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Timby posted:

Organized Crime wasn't bad, but it was very severely hamstrung by Wolf & Co. refusing to let it exist outside of the shadow of SVU. Out of eight episodes this season, Benson was in seven. That led to it feeling like an SVU side project rather than it having its own identity.

I guess the other problem was that outside of Stabler and Richard Wheatley, the entire cast of characters felt like ciphers. I could barely tell you anyone's name or what their personality is, outside of being / doing whatever a particular scene required at that point in time.

I mean, the story is all about Stabler's character development through the themes of "growing over time" and "having healthy relations with one's family." This is one of the reasons why it ends with Richie putting out a hit on Richard while Stabler is calling out "I need help." But after the first episode, I think it really isn't tight. And, moreover, a bunch of the episodes really felt short on story. I'm not even sure that, storywise, it couldn't have been fit well enough inside a hone hour episode. Its high points were the stupidest parts, like the scene where Stabler starts dating again.

HOLY FUCK
Mar 31, 2007

How does that make you feel?




Aww, I was looking forward to For the Defense. :( probably better to cancel it than have it suck and be rushed as hell though, which sounds like what was going to happen.

YeahTubaMike
Mar 24, 2005

*hic* Gotta finish thish . . .


Doctor Rope

Digital Jedi posted:

Hey look a crazy person showed up


And surprisingly this was in Oct 2020 not right after 9/11 as I figured it would have been

MJeff posted:

I know you mean 2000 but Rudy showing up on Law and Order 2020 would be pretty wild.

I was like, "whoa, they did a REALLY good job with the makeup there" :v:

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



Does the original series start feeling more like what I assume SVU is like at some point? Just watched the crossover episode with the con artist mother and daughter and it felt weird, like it was more about some villain they have to put away than any kind of interesting legal situation. They only ended up locking away the daughter due to a last-minute old crime that came out of nowhere (oh by the way she gave birth to a hosed up infant she immediately killed and buried when she was 14) which isn't nearly as interesting a resolution as the courtroom stuff. The season premiere with the guy kidnapping a kid to sell to a pedophile was similar, but at least there was some meat there about a suspect extorting a deal and negotiating with terrorists.

The inconsistent character writing you guys pointed out can be pretty funny. In one episode Jack is all mad about the guy who followed the mass shooter in his car which led to an accident when he was boxed in; pulling up in front of the stolen SUV and braking is reckless endangerment since it caused the shooter to hit the gas, spin out and crash into a restaurant. We live in a society where that kind of vigilantism is unacceptable and anything more than calling 911 is irresponsible. No big deal in the next episode when a dude in a box truck sees the car in an amber alert and fuckin' rams it into a wall, though. Then the next episode concludes with the guy who embezzled a pension fund found domed in the trunk of his car and Jack's all Į\_(ツ)_/Į

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Organized Crime starts in the UK at the end of the month, and we're a few weeks behind on SVU. Is Organized Crime one ongoing story or is it episodic?

I wouldn't mind another series of that Law and Order: True Crime. The first one was pretty decent, even if it wasn't in the same league as say, American Crime Story.

Moving Carisi to the DA's office was a great decision. It helps the story-telling and gives Peter Scanavino more to do.

OldMemes fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jul 16, 2021

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

OC is basically one on-going story over its 8 episodes, but several episode of SVU are involved as well.

HOLY FUCK
Mar 31, 2007

How does that make you feel?




OldMemes posted:

Moving Carisi to the DA's office was a great decision. It helps the story-telling and gives Peter Scanavino more to do.

Yeah I really like Carisi as the ADA too, it was neat seeing him move up through law school and graduating while being in SVU and achieving his dream :unsmith:

barba will always be my favorite though

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Raķl Esparza was wonderful as Barba, his guest spot felt like he'd never left the show.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



I love how lovely the office looks once Jack becomes the interim DA.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



This show gets fuckin weird after Detective Green leaves huh.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Coxswain Balls posted:

This show gets fuckin weird after Detective Green leaves huh.

A little.

I don't think OG ever really gets close to the silliness that SVU devolves into, but its def very different when you have no familiar long standing characters in their roles anymore and there is a big shift right at that point when Green leaves.

Jack moves to the DA chair, all new ADA group (i guess his last female assistant is still around) and new detectives we just met. I still like it, you get to like them, but it def has a slightly different vibe.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



It's not so much the characters but rather the bizarre plots like the fight club, the child slavery ring, the psychotic boomer nerd mad about sororities, the JFK hair thing, and so on. It felt more like they were relying on the novelty of weird poo poo coming from out of left field than interesting investigative or legal dilemmas. They also tried to have overarching season-long plots with villains like the governor or the cartel lawyer, which felt like they were trying to shift to a more serialized format which I wasn't a fan of.

As such I kind of get what someone was saying earlier in the thread about a modern revival not being able to capture the feel of the series on its best days because street crime is way down. After the great recession there seemed to be more focus on corruption and white collar conspiracy, which resulted in a lot of the stories revolving around strange rich-people plots. The transition from random New Yorkers stumbling across a crime scene to showing a before and after of the victims also took away from the local flavor and made the investigative detective parts less interesting, I thought.

Some of the plots were also really bad. Abortion episodes can already be kind of eye-rolling but the one with the murdered late-term clinic doctor was really hosed up. It's just more "clean" and "dignified" to bring your hosed up baby with no skin to term so they can die of natural causes. Finding out about the George Tiller case made it even more gross with how they wrote the doctor in the show as a baby killer to justify the murder. The Scientology episode right after Detective Green leaves was also similarly bad - the victim claiming to be harassed by the cult was actually just a paranoid maniac!

A show from the point of view of the defense for regular crimes would be really cool and topical but only if they had the talent to pull it off, which seems unlikely. The one where ADA Rubirosa has to represent a dude because of a legal aid strike was really good, and I loved Jack's speech when some of her colleagues were ribbing her about working for the "dark side".

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

And of course, not only is the bad guy guilty in that one, but Rubirosa gets him for another murder as well.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Just watched the Criminal UK series 1&2, and I have to wonder if they ever thought of that kind of format for an L&O show or if the brand just too "big". Like the name of the show couldn't just be a two room, stage-like, episodic thing with a small relatively unknown cast aside from the guest stars.

Feels like the kind of thing that could bring some actual critical acclaim to Dick Wolf productions and I can't imagine it being a particularly expensive thing to invest in.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013


Randomly came across an SVU episode where Olivia has a heart-to-heart with Nick Amaro, and she says something like "the four years I spent with you made me a much better cop than the ten years with my other partner, because I had no room to grow there". It's sort of funny that they brought Stabler back, because the show sort of already recognized on screen how absolutely hosed up everything about Stabler is. They lean into in in his "own" show a little, it's a shame the rest of the cast is so utterly bland.

e: Well, the bad guy is sort of interesting, I suppose, but the scenes of him actually with Stabler are a bit too... Supervillainy for Law and Order, if that makes sense?

Rappaport fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Jul 30, 2021

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



I'm going back to the ones I missed from the Briscoe and Curtis days and the stories are definitely way better than the final couple of seasons. I'm watching one right now and it slowly dawned on me that it's the episode Brandon Bird based the coloring book on. The old lady was talking about how there's a dude down the corner who might've seen something and I lost my poo poo when she said it was Ray-Ray.

Don't worry Mr. Davis. In this house, I'm the man.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

The Gamergate episode of SVU is on W right now.

e: the pre-credits involves the crowd chanting "do it do it doit" intercut with the rapists attacking the woman in the bathroom.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Hand Knit posted:

The Gamergate episode of SVU is on W right now.

e: the pre-credits involves the crowd chanting "do it do it doit" intercut with the rapists attacking the woman in the bathroom.

I feel primal fear

How bad is the rest of the episode?

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

StrixNebulosa posted:

I feel primal fear

How bad is the rest of the episode?

I'm not a connoisseur or anything but to my mind it's one of the worst episodes that doesn't feature an over-arching story.

e: the guy who wrote SVU-slenderman is in this episode

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HOLY FUCK
Mar 31, 2007

How does that make you feel?




The only thing about that episode that i liked was Fin starting a sentence with "I read this article in Kotaku..." which was just surreal as hell :lol:

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