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blue footed boobie
Sep 14, 2012


UEFA SUPREMACY

Ratios and Tendency posted:

His other example was Cain's knee collapsing and him not being KOed at all.

We went through this at length when it happened and Cain was definitely out for a sec.

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Ratios and Tendency
Apr 23, 2010

MURALI



blue footed boobie posted:

We went through this at length when it happened and Cain was definitely out for a sec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zrtkoV8jN8

Nope.

blue footed boobie
Sep 14, 2012


UEFA SUPREMACY


https://youtu.be/2X7tZ5bN684

Yep.

Thereís weird little punch that Francis throws that is hard to see from most angles that dropped Cain.

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013




I'd say it's kinda fair to say that sometimes it looks like the shots Ngannou is landing look like they're not impactful and then the person just straight up loses consciousness and that in 100% of those cases it's purely the camera angle because the replay shows it from another side and the victim looks like they just got hit by a train.

The initial angle of the Stipe knockout was a "drat that didn't look that flush" but on the other angles it's manslaughter.

The Overeem KO wasn't one of those though.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



MotU posted:

at least if jon jones hits you the air bags might deploy

lol

willie_dee
Jun 21, 2010
I obtain sexual gratification from observing people being inflicted with violent head injuries


Heís clearly out dude

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon




I can't even remember cain coming back, thats how hard ngannou hit him.

DoombatINC
Apr 20, 2003

Here's the thing, I'm a feminist.






Ngannou punches have an effortless, weightless look to them, in the way that a hydraulic press can go through aluminum like melted chocolate, or a tornado can scatter a suburb like shredded tissue by just moving past it

He's operating on a different scale of force than we're used to and it can play tricks on the mind

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


You guys sound like Dana and his Ford escort bullshit lol

Digital Jedi
May 28, 2007

Wow....that feels good






Fallen Rib

Is Francis the hardest puncher in all of combat sports? Who is even close to him?

My buddy asked the night of the fight and I honestly don't know who also comes close but my knowledge is somewhat limited to only mma.

blue footed boobie
Sep 14, 2012


UEFA SUPREMACY

Digital Jedi posted:

Is Francis the hardest puncher in all of combat sports? Who is even close to him?

Wilder.

DoombatINC
Apr 20, 2003

Here's the thing, I'm a feminist.






The Automator posted:

You guys sound like Dana and his Ford escort bullshit lol

I'm mostly an MMA fan so I can have subjects and events to grossly exaggerate

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.



he's closest imo, but it's not close.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



It's hard to draw a comparison (210-220s vs 260), but some of the 70s boxing heavyweights had a bigger body of work than Francis does now.

double negative
Jul 7, 2003




https://twitter.com/bokamotoespn/status/1378366170122743812?s=21

I dig it

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon




I'll watch TKZ fight anyone.

On Ngannou power, we usually see him land hooks or big punches anyway and the raw physics of the mans frame are whats at play here. He's throwing shots well, if not technically perfect and he is loving gargantuan. That means an awful lot. We very seldom see someone with that reach and that weight to back it up. This sort of thing is one of the reasons the skill ceiling at heavyweight is traditionally significantly lower than say, below 170.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Southpaugh posted:

On Ngannou power, we usually see him land hooks or big punches anyway and the raw physics of the mans frame are whats at play here. He's throwing shots well, if not technically perfect and he is loving gargantuan. That means an awful lot.

The size helps, but there's boxers his size who don't get as much ko power. Valuev wasn't an especially hard hotter.

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013




Nikolai Valuev was way bigger than Ngannou and had acromegaly, and people who have that are almost always stiff movers. I wouldn't expect him to hit as hard as Ngannou, a fully healthy but massive human.

I'd say the best comparison is horse meat Reem

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I'm with you; I'm just pointing out frame dimensions is not a dominant factor.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.


I don't even know that Ngannou would rank as a hard hitter even amongst the more pillow fisted Boxing heavyweights.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




I've typed up and deleted a version of this post like 3x because this is a really tough-to-analyse topic and I can't figure out how to say what I'm saying without it seeming like a hot take but

It's hard to compare relative punching power between boxing and MMA because of the way blows land and because the context of the punches (gloves, range, guards, rules) is so much different in boxing than in MMA it's hard to watch the sports side by side.

If you watch really very hard punchers in boxing, the guys getting hit just react differently from the people being hit by the really very hard punchers in MMA. If you watch George Foreman or Joe Louis or other historically famous hard hitters' highlights there are the "god he's dead" finishes, but the power shows itself more in how guys react when the power puncher hits their guards. Foreman could clobber a guy right in the arms/gloves and he'd start to whither as if a normal heavyweight hit him clean. I can think of exactly one time that an elite heavyweight boxer traded punches with something losely resembling a top-tier MMA fighter: Ray Mercer took Tim Sylvia out with one punch. We don't have any other meaningful data points.

My suspicion is that Francis hits roughly as hard as a good all-around heavyweight puncher, but not as hard as the boxers who have a reputation for unusual power, just due to the nature of the sports and the necessities of training.

But I wouldn't be surprised if fighters like Derek Lewis, Frank Mir, Mark Hunt, or Fedor all hit within an order of magnitude of power as Francis when they plant and unload - they've all achieved the same kind of "god he's dead" KOs multiple times in their careers, even against fighters who have some reputation for durability. Francis isn't KOing guys through the guard (which we've seen in MMA with kicks, e.g. Machida vs Munoz) - pretty much all of his KOs (lets leave Cain out of this) involve him catching someone clean, so the thing is that Francis is somehow better at landing those punches.

That's my piece anyway. It's a half-formed thought and I may have failed to consider something.

Untrustable
Mar 16, 2009







I just watched a video called, "Does BJJ even work? 60 seconds of Derrick Lewis casually standing up from bottom position". Lewis is so great. Also didn't notice until I watched the video but drat the commentators are like, "oh that's bad form" right before Lewis stands up and starts raining down blows. Don't knock the man's form!

blue footed boobie
Sep 14, 2012


UEFA SUPREMACY

CommonShore posted:

My suspicion is that Francis hits roughly as hard as a good all-around heavyweight puncher, but not as hard as the boxers who have a reputation for unusual power, just due to the nature of the sports and the necessities of training.

I suspect this is right. MMA fighters have to be prepared for danger from a lot more angles than boxers, so you see more crazy loaded punches and people eating those punches when theyíre not ready in MMA. And the boxing guys donít have to focus on training grappling and kicking, so it stands to reason their punching power would be greater.

Plus if you have the chance to be an elite boxer then youíll make a ton more money doing that than MMA.

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon




CommonShore posted:

I've typed up and deleted a version of this post like 3x because this is a really tough-to-analyse topic and I can't figure out how to say what I'm saying without it seeming like a hot take but

It's hard to compare relative punching power between boxing and MMA because of the way blows land and because the context of the punches (gloves, range, guards, rules) is so much different in boxing than in MMA it's hard to watch the sports side by side.

If you watch really very hard punchers in boxing, the guys getting hit just react differently from the people being hit by the really very hard punchers in MMA. If you watch George Foreman or Joe Louis or other historically famous hard hitters' highlights there are the "god he's dead" finishes, but the power shows itself more in how guys react when the power puncher hits their guards. Foreman could clobber a guy right in the arms/gloves and he'd start to whither as if a normal heavyweight hit him clean. I can think of exactly one time that an elite heavyweight boxer traded punches with something losely resembling a top-tier MMA fighter: Ray Mercer took Tim Sylvia out with one punch. We don't have any other meaningful data points.

My suspicion is that Francis hits roughly as hard as a good all-around heavyweight puncher, but not as hard as the boxers who have a reputation for unusual power, just due to the nature of the sports and the necessities of training.

But I wouldn't be surprised if fighters like Derek Lewis, Frank Mir, Mark Hunt, or Fedor all hit within an order of magnitude of power as Francis when they plant and unload - they've all achieved the same kind of "god he's dead" KOs multiple times in their careers, even against fighters who have some reputation for durability. Francis isn't KOing guys through the guard (which we've seen in MMA with kicks, e.g. Machida vs Munoz) - pretty much all of his KOs (lets leave Cain out of this) involve him catching someone clean, so the thing is that Francis is somehow better at landing those punches.

That's my piece anyway. It's a half-formed thought and I may have failed to consider something.

It's something like this, he's another one of those massive critical chance fighters. Like the last one that put stipe away was one of those loopy hooks that put me in mind of nick diaz vs robbie lawler, caught him perfectly on the chin. Its the how and when of the shot landing that means as much if not more than whatever the readout on danas punch-o-meter says.

The shot in the first round rung stipes bell hard, and then the flurry after nearly finished the fight except stipes tough and his defense is solid. After he survived that I knew he was going out in round two. Looking at him recovering between the rounds he was visibly still shaken, rallied when he went back out and then met his doom. It was that first big shot though, and stipe looked like he'd never been hit that hard. He really does have some quirk to him that lets him land to incredible results.

Lucasar
Jan 25, 2005

I'm that kid that made those cool tinfoil dinosaurs.




I kinda think Gane will beat Ngannou.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/UFCFightPass/status/1378293196711661573?s=20

rheinhold is missed imo

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003


Fallen Rib

MotU posted:

at least if jon jones hits you the air bags might deploy

hahaha holy gently caress

jon jones standing punches aren't that scary

his gnp is loving terrifying

Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Like a snail that melteth away into slime, they shall be taken away; like a dead-born child, they shall not see the sun.

Digital Jedi posted:

Is Francis the hardest puncher in all of combat sports? Who is even close to him?

pound for pound it's gotta be melvin manhoef

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013




Conor has confirmed the Poirier trilogy on his end.

For any other fighter, another loss would be the death of the hype train... Fingers crossed.


Foul Fowl posted:

pound for pound it's gotta be melvin manhoef

Naoya Inoue is a monster puncher

Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 4, 2021

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008

A group of very serious old men sat around and discussed whether or not I had the requisite dignity and grace of a grand champion.


Josuke Higashikata posted:

Conor has confirmed the Poirier trilogy on his end.

good for poirier. hope the dude retires soon. feel like i've been watching the guy get brain damage for far, far too long yet it seems like the most taxing years are still to come.

nordichammer
Oct 11, 2013


I feel like Poirer may be a bigger draw than Conor at this point. His last few fights have been dynamite, even the Khabib fight.

Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Like a snail that melteth away into slime, they shall be taken away; like a dead-born child, they shall not see the sun.

Josuke Higashikata posted:


Naoya Inoue is a monster puncher

inoue hits super hard and i don't follow boxing much but does he fight way above his natural weight like manhoef did? melvin knocked out hunt with a jab when he was going backwards.

Flaskraven
Nov 20, 2012

I hope you get crushed to death by a fat guy trying to commit suicide by falling out of a window and when the paramedics answer the local bystander asking if you'll live, he just says "fat chance" and laughs.

nordichammer posted:

I feel like Poirer may be a bigger draw than Conor at this point. His last few fights have been dynamite, even the Khabib fight.

He's definitely the more exciting fighter but he's nowhere near the draw. Everyone knows who Conor is.

Brown Paper Bag
Nov 3, 2012



willie_dee
Jun 21, 2010
I obtain sexual gratification from observing people being inflicted with violent head injuries

I hope they fight again to settle it, and I donít like Bisping that much,heís done some dickish things, but god I hope he kicks that guys rear end, Kennedy is insufferable.

Aye Doc
Jul 19, 2007

my name is john carter



you know, i cant see the old one eyed guy fighting again for some weird reason, and definitely cant see him winning. maybe im the no eyed guy

willie_dee
Jun 21, 2010
I obtain sexual gratification from observing people being inflicted with violent head injuries

Aye Doc posted:

you know, i cant see the old one eyed guy fighting again for some weird reason, and definitely cant see him winning. maybe im the no eyed guy

Didnít he win the belt with only one eye?

Aye Doc
Jul 19, 2007

my name is john carter



from what he said on the podcast with Steve-O, he won the belt while clinically blind; he has since had his eyeball removed

Lucasar
Jan 25, 2005

I'm that kid that made those cool tinfoil dinosaurs.




I'm always impressed how little he brings that up when he is on commentary. Especially with all the eyepoke talk recently.

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Gramps
Dec 30, 2006





Foul Fowl posted:

pound for pound it's gotta be melvin manhoef

knocking out hunt with a backpedaling jab wins this one by a substantial margin

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