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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

can i count the tales of the abyss anime's ending, i love tales of the abyss's ending

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Silver2195 posted:

There's a lot of anime with well-written endings, but there's also a lot of anime, especially very hyped ones, that had a promising start but failed to stick the landing.

Darling in the Franxx
Kuma Miko
The Pilot's Love Song
Apparently Attack on Titan? I haven't finished it, but The Discourse appears to be upset about the ending for some reason.
As GorfZaplen mentions, Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers is widely considered an an example, although I don't think it was really that bad.

OK, that's not actually that many, but that was just off the top of my head. Give me a few minutes and I could come up with more.
3 of those are adaptations that directly adapted plot points from the original, and franxx had writing issues well before its ending

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

there's some good characters and some good individual episodes but it rapidly loses any focus on the strongest elements of the first ep, meanders a bunch, backtracks on the first ep's lesbian undertones as hard as it possibly can, starts introducing a ton of extremely stupid sci-fi conspiracies, and dedicates a third of its runtime to setting up a plot point that it then goes 'actually, we AREN'T doing that plot point! fooled you, huh? aren't we smart?' about. and also every bad guy is just a weird sex monster that yells about how much they like doing sexual assaults and then the girl gets to go 'actually, sexual assault... is bad!!' usually after a vivid recounting and sometimes flashback to said sexual assault. and also it has an ep where it tries to be supportive about a trans dude but A) it still does the sexual assault thing and B) every other character who is at all involved in the magical girl stuff is, well, a girl, and the show specifically talks about 'girls suicides' as the common thread connecting everything.

there's a lot i like in it but i sure wish the stuff i like was in like, a good show

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

the writer's good at dialogue and striking lines about social issues, but hes mistaken pithiness for having like, deep insight into literally all aspects of society and thus that gives him the go ahead to indulge all his worst impulses, basically.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

marumaru posted:

i know that you're actually right but i still stubbornly hate when people go "um ackshually doujins aren't really just porn!"
its extremely weird to present the people making an objectively correct statement about a medium that has been extremely crucial for lgbt manga as well as political, or more 'outsider' art, as pedantic nerds.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


this image having 'copyrighted material' on it is better commentary on capitalism than megalobox

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

would 'war crime' be a better term than 'genocide' for the slime protag

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

you can absolutely have an overpowered wish fulfillment protagonist and tell a good story, the issue with a lot of isekai isnt that the protagonists are super strong and you want to be them, the issue is that those are literally all the stories have going on and they go out of their way to not to do anything thatd undermine that. most classical mythology is also about hugely overpowered guys who are meant to be an ideal to strive for, but there's also tragedy and betrayals and moments where they make mistakes. like when cu chulainn has to kill his own son the narrative is like 'drat, that sucks bro!!'

One Punch Man S1 works because its mostly jokes about how overpowered Saitama is and the actual narrative focus is his ennui and emptiness. S2 stopped working partly because the animation wasn't good enough to sell it and partly because the joke ran out so they tried to shift to more of a proper narrative but the series still wasn't really able to do anything that'd tear Saitama down, because for all his strength he was never actually in that high a position to begin with. It's hard to tell any kind of tragedy or downer moment when the main character is completely listless and bored. So the story mostly becomes about trying to tell a story *around* Saitama, which means it's basically just a normal shonen action thing only a guy a hundred times stronger than anyone else teleports in at the end to solve everything. Now, DBZ also had that same story structure but at least Goku was presented as weaker than the enemies at some points. And also Goku actually cared what was going on.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

as ever the whoel isekai op protagonist thing is mostly people identifying the surface level writing choices as the problem rather than the core issue of how those writing issues are used in the story and how the story supports or undermines them.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

the greatest voice acting trick in anime is still how the symphogear cast emotes while singing, since the gimmick is singing during action scenes. so if they get hit they cut themselves off mid-line, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2D761sPLmg&t=12s

Malsangoroth posted:

Wait, WHAT? The anime is starting almost a month after the season start proper, and they're inserting three compilations beforehand? Either this is some genius marketing strategy to lead into a movie, or more likely this is an indication that S2 is so unfinished that they're splitting it into multiple parts and buying time even before the season starts. Jesus Christ. Welp, I said I'd watch it, so time to strap in I guess.
no i dont think any of this implies any of that

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

The Black Stones posted:

People keep going “look, it can’t be his fault, he doesn’t have budget/experience/insert x reason here”

He’s had 3 projects in a row now where there’s been animation mistakes ahoy, and really really bad ones. Now, are all the problems on him? Definitely not, but at this point I think we can safely say that he definitely has issues with directing and it will show up very obviously in his shows. What causes it? I don’t know, but if you’re watching a show that Shin Itagaki is directing you should expect that something will happen to the animation.

I’m just saying when people see his name attached to any future projects I’d take that as a sign that it’s probably not going to be well animated.
i dont know how this is his fault, and this isn't really a director's job, but im gonna blame him cause hes a man whos name i saw once. impeccable logic.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

like ben-to and the devil may cry anime were totally fine, the dmc anime was kinda stiff direction-wise but the entire thing was a bit stiff writing and concept wise too. and berserk 2016 had some bad directorial choices but also some good ones, it was pretty clearly because of a director that wasn't used to cg but was perfectly competent when it came to 2d animation. and even in that terrible shot from spider that was posted up thread, the actual shot composition and idea there is totally fine. i dont think the director said 'and make sure to reuse the terrible ps2 desert map even though the characters are in a forest.' and frankly if he did i admire his bold creative vision.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

i too furiously masturbate when i think of people losing their jobs for the crime of being the victim of the ridiculous overproduction of anime currently going on in japan

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

The Black Stones posted:

Oh, so you’ll stop blaming Katsura Hoshino for every single problem with the Persona franchise because he only directed those games, right? The writing in them isn’t really a directors job, but he’s only a man who’s name you saw once so he couldn’t possibly be the problem?
Hashino is not really responsible for the myriad writing and plotting problems of Persona 5, yes. He has directly spoken about the weird trans stuff in Catherine Full Body being his idea so I feel comfortable blaming him for that tho. wanna try again?

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Sometimes you need an example for others to be able to point and say "I told you so" at and give the higher-ups something to fret over being perceived as. If nobody's failing, it works because capitalism. If there's a studio that demonstrably sank itself through these exact same measures, there's at least a non-zero chance of others pivoting a little just to avoid getting media and investment perception as being another Studio [Insert Name Here].

I'm not cheering a studio's demise either, but if one does sink itself it might make a big enough mess that it can't be ignored and do some good elsewhere at-large.
the studio isn't the one making the calls that lead to these working conditions, though.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

as a sidebar i really love 'the spider show has bad cg' and 'homophobia' being equal points on a chart.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Arist posted:

I like Persona but I'm going to make the bold claim that there's probably a big difference between a game director and an anime director
as an aside while i dont subscribe to the idea that its wholly hashinos fault, there is also a difference between a deliberate choice (homophobic jokes) and a choice that was presumably not deliberate (https://i.imgur.com/vGMP8Ch.mp4)

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

The Black Stones posted:

You know what? I don’t care about getting into some weird argument war about this because it doesn’t matter. Do I think Shin Itagaki shares in the blame on what happens in those shows? He’s a director, so yes. If you want to claim he doesn’t have anything to do with it, by all means point out what a series directors responsibilities are because all the media and online material I’ve read have shown they have a hand in it.
i mean, define 'what happens in these shows.' the responsibilities of an anime director are mostly artistic choices. storyboarding, approving things like character designs, checking work to make sure it meets their vision, that sort of thing. it is not really an anime director's job to make sure they are meeting deadlines, or to ensure a reasonable working schedule. obviously the director can *assist* with those things, but it isn't the job description. those things are the responsibility of the production roles. and those things are also often constrained by the demands of the sponsors, or the production committee. if the production committee tells you its two cours even though you only have the manpower and time for a single cour, then you deal with it. and dealing with it would, again, be production's jobs.

so: if you think the show has poor creative choices or poorly shot/storyboarded scenes, then yes, the director would bear some responsibility for that. berserk 2016 had some very poor shot choices that itagaki is fully responsible for. he is not, however, really responsible for the full production meltdown that spider seems to have gotten itself into.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 26, 2021

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

The Colonel posted:

shin itagaki and katsura hashino are incomparable cause itagaki's made several of the greatest short anime of all time while the only thing of worth katsura hashino's directed is maken x...
unfortunately, nocturne is decent

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

wegg spoilers: the series opens with the mystery of the protagonist's female friend who she had obvious romantic tension with committing suicide, introduces a teacher who she was talking to who was kinda shady, and ends with the reveal that actually her female friend drove a teacher to suicide by falsely accusing him of rape and threatening to commit suicide herself and was trying to do the same thing to the other teacher when she slipped and fell and thats how she died

cause you know, the real epidemic is lying whores falsely accusing men of rape, not teen girl suicide

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

the worst part is ep 12 has some weird stuff in it too but has the kind of implied message that she'll never actually know why she died and she can learn to live with that, which isnt executed the best but is honestly kind of a neat theme. the 'ending' not only raised more questions than it answered it basically ruined the few resolutions they had managed.

wegg has some very good stuff in it and i do like a lot of parts of it but if anyone does watch it do yourself a favor and stop at 12. that ending isnt good either but at least it mostly doesnt ruin anything.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Space Flower posted:

https://twitter.com/Anime/status/1410655704134868995

drat, i guess the director shouldve just sucked less and handled this

quote:

There are a lot of insensitive tweets from people who don't know the production situation. The outsourced animation on multiple episodes completely broke down, and Millepensee had to redo it all from scratch. The staff ended up being too busy for the later episodes that were set aside for them, which is a large reason for the poor quality. The staff are quite literally killing themselves to deal with this. Please be patient with the delay...
I do agree with the sentiment that regardless of the situation at the studio, what ultimately matters is what gets broadcasted. No matter what the reason, missing the broadcast is heavily frowned upon. But I made this tweet because I just wanted people to know that my friends' studio is battling desperately for the sake of this anime. And the people who are slinging insults won't stop until someone takes their own life.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

https://twitter.com/gb_donglees/status/1410886322730852357/photo/1

The antarctica staff (minus the writer, the director's writing it herself this time) are making a movie. The website itself mentions a place further than the universe a fair bit so I imagine it's meant as sort of a 'thematic followup.' About boys going to Iceland.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

elephant if your piss is green consult a doctor

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Violet Evergarden was a lot of things but it didnt have the veneer of self-conscious irony most mediocre LNs do.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


yea that just looks like high score girl

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