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GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


People keep trying to tell me about them, and my ability to comprehend what they are saying is basically nil. It feels like I'm listening to a crazy person talk, except then you get a couple of them together and then it feels like I am the crazy person, because it is obvious they have an understanding of reality that is consistent between them but is in no way representative of reality as I understand it.

Someone please explain this to me in a way I can understand, because my current understanding of the technology is "... so it's like beanie babies except instead of stuffed animals its collectible URLs?" and that can't be right because nothing they say makes any sense that I can figure if that's the case.

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TengenNewsEditor
Apr 2, 2004
H.I.M. Emperor Lyndon B. Johnson I

GlyphGryph posted:

People keep trying to tell me about them, and my ability to comprehend what they are saying is basically nil. It feels like I'm listening to a crazy person talk, except then you get a couple of them together and then it feels like I am the crazy person, because it is obvious they have an understanding of reality that is consistent between them but is in no way representative of reality as I understand it.

"... so it's like beanie babies except instead of stuffed animals its collectible URLs?"

that's right

GlyphGryph posted:

and that can't be right because nothing they say makes any sense that I can figure if that's the case.

right again, it's all bullshit

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




It's a digital sticky note. Inside is some JSON that describes the thing you bought and a URL to where you can look at it.



If the image or video or whatever at the included link ever goes away, your NFT points to nothing at all. I guess you could replace it with something else at that URL and goatse a guy who bought grumpy cat.

NFTs can not be traded between different "exchanges"

They're as dumb as you think so they're definitely worth tens f thousands of dollars. Personally if I was an artist I would make a shitload of them to re-sell garbage I made 20 years ago to people who don't understand what they're buying.

https://mashable.com/article/what-is-an-nft-non-fungible-token/

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003
WANTING A VACCINE DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE AN ANTIVAXXER, DUMBASS

Cybernetic Crumb

"I must be misunderstanding it because it cannot possibly be that dumb" is a normal reaction to understanding it correctly.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

ASK ME WHY THE HYUNDAI KONA IS THE GREATEST CAR ON GOD'S EARTH, I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT


Yeah, exactly. Everyone's like "I can't possibly be understanding this right, because it sounds like completely nonsensical bullshit." No, that's exactly what it is, you understand it perfectly, and it's every bit as stupid as it sounds.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


It's virtual baseball cards, except instead of having a picture of the baseball player on the cards, it has directions to a billboard that may or may not still be standing and may or may not still have a picture of that baseball player on it.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


while crypto is often dumb in a bunch of simultaneous ways nfts in particular seem closer to a fad than a bubble. like, imagine if you could issue certificates of authenticity for anything digital and would you like to buy this certificate for a comical amount of money?

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


PokeJoe posted:

It's a digital sticky note.

Hmm. This makes it sound like it's not so much a beanie baby, it's the certificate of authenticity that comes with the beanie baby, and people are just trading/selling the certificates themselves instead of the thing they're attached to?

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




Yeah that's pretty much correct. You don't get any real ownership of the work. You cant start selling prints of art you bought the NFT for since the creative work still belongs to the artist. You can just sell the NFT itself.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



GlyphGryph posted:

Hmm. This makes it sound like it's not so much a beanie baby, it's the certificate of authenticity that comes with the beanie baby, and people are just trading/selling the certificates themselves instead of the thing they're attached to?

It's not even a certificate of authenticity, it's not inherently associated with the manufacturer or anything

- You have a beanie baby on a shelf in your house
- I write "GlyphGryph has a beanie baby in his house. It's a green rabbit and pretty cool." on a sticky note. Only one person can be physically holding that particular sticky note at a time. Nothing stops me or anyone else from making another one, it'll just be a different piece of paper
- I sell the sticky note to an idiot and write "'Foxfire sold this to X' on the bottom" when I give it to them.

It's that, but the sticky note is digital instead of physical. I don't need to have any relationship with you and you don't have any obligation to keep the beanie baby on that shelf.


e: also, we light a few barrels of oil on fire to celebrate each transaction
e2: the beanie baby also doesn't ever need to actually exist, I can just write a lie on the sticky note

Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Apr 2, 2021

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


You know that scam where they sell land on the moon? So you send them some money and they send you a certificate that says you own a piece of the moon? So you can put that certificate up in your house and tell people you own a piece of the moon, but really all you own is a certificate?

Now imagine that, instead of the moon, it's a picture of the moon. And instead of a certificate, it's a digital certificate that you can't even show people. But because it sounds extremely technical and complicated, when you say "I own an NFT of the moon" people tend to just assume that means something because it couldn't possibly be as stupid as it sounds and these things seem to be worth a lot of money so there must be something to them and maybe I'm the dumb one for not getting it? No. You're not the dumb one. There's nothing to get. It's a worthless digital certificate of pretend ownership for a picture on someone else's computer that they still have complete control over and responsibility for.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




This is evergreen:




https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdj79/peoples-expensive-nfts-keep-vanishing-this-is-why

quote:

When you buy an NFT for potentially as much as an actual house, in most cases you're not purchasing an artwork or even an image file. Instead, you are buying a little bit of code that references a piece of media located somewhere else on the internet. This is where the problems begin.

Ed Clements is a community manager for OpenSea who fields these kinds of problems daily. In an interview, he explained that digital artworks themselves are not immutably registered “on the blockchain” when a purchase is made. When you buy an artwork, rather, you’re “minting” a new cryptographic signature that, when decoded, points to an image hosted elsewhere. This could be a regular website, or it might be the InterPlanetary File System, a large peer-to-peer file storage system.

Clements distinguished between the NFT artwork (the image) and the NFT, which is the little cryptographic signature that actually gets logged.

"I use the analogy of OpenSea and similar platforms acting like windows into a gallery where your NFT is hanging,” he said. “The platform can close the window whenever they want, but the NFT still exists and it is up to each platform to decide whether or not they want to close their window.”

An nft is basically a TinyURL referrer to an image hosted somewhere. If the host takes the image down, you're SOL.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Apr 3, 2021

bigperm
Jul 10, 2001
some obscure reference

https://twitter.com/ChuckTingle/status/1375839284700217344

External Organs
Mar 3, 2006

A cheerful person, he is known as the king of vulgarities (cursing?)


Pounded In The Butt By The Idea of Digital "Ownership" But Actually Not Even Owning Anything

SoldadoDeTone
Apr 20, 2006

Hold on tight!

My college roommate has made nearly $400k off selling his digital art on the NFT markets. Of course, he has reinvested half of that in NFT's, so I expect that he will actually have made $200.001k. Regardless, man is making money.

Fan fact: he was a goon for a week but used the account to promote his YouTube videos and got laughed off. His new work is legitimately good, though. Not $400k good but good.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



Is he making money, or is he getting etherium tokens with a nominally high paper value, but aren't readily convertible to USD?

Still Dismal
Dec 15, 2008


A very smart guy I know from a while ago has a job at one of these companies, and I geuess I’m happy for him getting paid, sure, but I get incredibly depressed thinking about how much loving time and talent is being siphoned off into making digitized beanie babies.

At least in the old days when people got rich of stupid ideas they built stuff sometimes.

E: sincere question, is there any blockchain thing that is actually for real useful at doing anything other than making money by being gambled on?

Still Dismal fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Apr 14, 2021

SoldadoDeTone
Apr 20, 2006

Hold on tight!

Foxfire_ posted:

Is he making money, or is he getting etherium tokens with a nominally high paper value, but aren't readily convertible to USD?

Yeah, he has already converted 200k to cash. He's still figuring out what the taxes will be, though, so I imagine he will lose a good chunk of that.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Still Dismal posted:

E: sincere question, is there any blockchain thing that is actually for real useful at doing anything other than making money by being gambled on?

No. Every blockchain would be better as a regular database.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




There are good uses for a distributed ledger.

That's why banks figured that poo poo out decades ago. The blockchain implementation of a distributed ledger is useless for any practical purpose as it lacks basic features such as being able to error correct.

Greg12
Apr 22, 2020


I read a primer on how to sell these things, thinking I could just auction off urls of jpgs of the mona lisa and the guy with an apple for a face for FREE MONEY

:matthewlesko:

it costs $75 to list them.

gently caress that.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


SoldadoDeTone posted:

My college roommate has made nearly $400k off selling his digital art on the NFT markets. Of course, he has reinvested half of that in NFT's, so I expect that he will actually have made $200.001k. Regardless, man is making money.

Fan fact: he was a goon for a week but used the account to promote his YouTube videos and got laughed off. His new work is legitimately good, though. Not $400k good but good.

Everyone knows the secret to being a successful (read: well compensated) artist is finding the right suckers, so congrats to your friend. Is he actually selling the art in any way (rights or anything) or is it just the standard "certificate of authenticity and a link to the artwork" thing?

SoldadoDeTone
Apr 20, 2006

Hold on tight!

GlyphGryph posted:

Everyone knows the secret to being a successful (read: well compensated) artist is finding the right suckers, so congrats to your friend. Is he actually selling the art in any way (rights or anything) or is it just the standard "certificate of authenticity and a link to the artwork" thing?

I believe it's just NFT blockchain tag. Yeah, congrats to him, but I wish he weren't "reinvesting" and would just take the money and run. He's a believer and keeps going on about how much money the NFT's he bought will be worth later.

Also, his wife is an antivax amateur spokesperson, and I don't like the idea of her getting her fingers on money.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

It's not the red form anymore.
Incidental bones can file under the greens.


Liquid Communism posted:

it lacks basic features such as being able to error correct.

"We won't need an error corrections workflow because under the new system there won't be any errors!" - actual management decision from a real financial services company I worked for.

They weren't even using blockchain or whatever either that I know of

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






GlyphGryph posted:


Someone please explain this to me in a way I can understand

Only registered members can see post attachments!

mystes
May 31, 2006



It's too bad that Bernie Madoff passed away, because I think he really should have gotten into this NFT stuff.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Liquid Communism posted:

This is evergreen:




https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdj79/peoples-expensive-nfts-keep-vanishing-this-is-why


An nft is basically a TinyURL referrer to an image hosted somewhere. If the host takes the image down, you're SOL.

Yeah, I advise a company that has a solution to that. They put a “digital fingerprint” of the actual art into the NFT so if the original URL dies or gets corrupted, any copy of that image can be verified to be the same as the one used to create the NFT.

TopHatGenius
Oct 3, 2008

something feels
different


Hot Rope Guy

SoldadoDeTone posted:

Yeah, he has already converted 200k to cash. He's still figuring out what the taxes will be, though, so I imagine he will lose a good chunk of that.

This boggles my mind. The fact that he's converting crypto into actual dollars.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




GlyphGryph posted:

Everyone knows the secret to being a successful (read: well compensated) artist is finding the right suckers, so congrats to your friend. Is he actually selling the art in any way (rights or anything) or is it just the standard "certificate of authenticity and a link to the artwork" thing?

Art (and writing) is so subjective to the suckers. We all love things others find stupid. Just look at the music form. Long term I think NFT isn't a fad, but short turn it 100% is.

SMEGMA_MAIL
May 4, 2018


THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021





Salt Fish posted:

"I must be misunderstanding it because it cannot possibly be that dumb" is a normal reaction to understanding it correctly.

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


The thing to remember about all things cryptocurrency is that there is an early adoption advantage, like with a pyramid scheme.

NFTs are a way to sucker artists into cryptocurrencies. If you get some of them into it, they'll get some others into it and the people who have already made some money will continue making money for a while longer.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Is the concept of an NFT roughly equivalent to e.g. buying a game on Steam? You don't own the product so much as a means of accessing it, and you're trusting the vendor to keep it available? Obviously no one pays 10k for a game and Valve is probably a bit more reputable than your average internet artist, but I'm wondering if the basic idea is the same.

mystes
May 31, 2006



Samuel Clemens posted:

Is the concept of an NFT roughly equivalent to e.g. buying a game on Steam? You don't own the product so much as a means of accessing it, and you're trusting the vendor to keep it available? Obviously no one pays 10k for a game and Valve is probably a bit more reputable than your average internet artist, but I'm wondering if the basic idea is the same.
No, you aren't entering any sort of agreement for someone to provide a license to use content for some purpose or to make content available by buying an NFT, and NFTs would not help with that in any way.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

What you own with an NFT is the token sitting on the blockchain. The art isn't on the blockchain, just a pointer to it.

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



An example of a NFT-like for a picture of the Mona Lisa

code:
{
    'url': 'https://imgur.com/8lAXuJ4',
    'sold to': 'Samuel Clemens',
    'sold by': 'Foxfire',
    'sold on': '2021-05-10'
}
Save that on a blockchain so that
(A) you trust it's authenticity to a 50%+1 vote of the people doing Etherium math in the future instead of any specific actual person, and
(B) it's hideously inefficient compared to normal digital signature stuff.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Foxfire_ posted:

An example of a NFT-like for a picture of the Mona Lisa

code:
{
    'url': 'https://imgur.com/8lAXuJ4',
    'sold to': 'Samuel Clemens',
    'sold by': 'Foxfire',
    'sold on': '2021-05-10'
}
Save that on a blockchain so that
(A) you trust it's authenticity to a 50%+1 vote of the people doing Etherium math in the future instead of any specific actual person, and
(B) it's hideously inefficient compared to normal digital signature stuff.

I am an advisor to a company that ads a digital signature (hash) into the NFT to allow the image to be verified, in case it is moved or a backup has to be used.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Samuel Clemens posted:

Is the concept of an NFT roughly equivalent to e.g. buying a game on Steam? You don't own the product so much as a means of accessing it, and you're trusting the vendor to keep it available? Obviously no one pays 10k for a game and Valve is probably a bit more reputable than your average internet artist, but I'm wondering if the basic idea is the same.

Owning an NFT is roughly equivalent to owning a piece of paper with "video games!?" written on it. It confers neither ownership nor any sense of usability.

CrypticFox
Dec 19, 2019

"You are one of the most incompetent of tablet writers"

VideoGameVet posted:

I am an advisor to a company that ads a digital signature (hash) into the NFT to allow the image to be verified, in case it is moved or a backup has to be used.

But if the NFT still does not confer ownership, what does this accomplish?

Foxfire_
Nov 8, 2010



CrypticFox posted:

But if the NFT still does not confer ownership, what does this accomplish?
It would make it so that you can detect that the jpg pointed to from that imgur link above didn't originally point to dickbutt. It's just saying that at the time the record was made, the link pointed to a file with a particular fingerprint.

NFTs still aren't useful for anything either way. 'buying' a NFT has nothing to do with ownership rights. It's essentially paying someone to file a little text snippet for you. Writing "I own this" in that text doesn't make it true in any actual way. The only thing different is that the record is sitting in a blockchain instead of in a normal database (with all the problems that causes, since blockchains are terrible at actually storing data)

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Foxfire_ posted:

An example of a NFT-like for a picture of the Mona Lisa

code:
{
    'url': 'https://imgur.com/8lAXuJ4',
    'sold to': 'Samuel Clemens',
    'sold by': 'Foxfire',
    'sold on': '2021-05-10'
}
Save that on a blockchain so that
(A) you trust it's authenticity to a 50%+1 vote of the people doing Etherium math in the future instead of any specific actual person, and
(B) it's hideously inefficient compared to normal digital signature stuff.

Don't forget that 'saving' that onto the Eth blockchain costs a couple hundred real-world bucks to buy eth to pay out 'gas' fees to have the transaction processed.

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