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Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS



Nap Ghost

In the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH (1971) by Robert C. O'Brien as well as the 1982 animated film The Secret of NIMH directed by Don Bluth, the colony of rats living in the rosebush attributes its high intelligence to experiments conducted on the rats by the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). These experiments supposedly explain why the rats are anthropomorphized.

This would make sense within the logic of the story except that all the other animal characters are also intelligent and anthropomorphized anyway. Mrs. Frisbee was NOT a test subject, yet she exhibits a human personality and intelligence. The scary owl who gives Mrs. Frisbee advice was similarly anthropomorphized.

If you're going to make a story about rats that become intelligent because of government experiments, that theme is somewhat undermined by just having all the animals be intelligent anyway, IMO. It seems like the only real change the rats underwent from their original state was they gained the ability to read human language.

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Inverted Icon
Apr 8, 2020

by Athanatos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yielghmFpNY

DeadFatDuckFat
Oct 29, 2012

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


The rats are smart enough that they can communicate with other beasts, OP

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010


She became intelligent when her husband Jonathan came in her.

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

The world is a vampire

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS



Nap Ghost

I guess another plot hole that only exists in the movie is that in addition to brain serum, there's also a magic gem that gives the user telekinetic powers, apparently unconnected to the NIMH's experiments.

And Mrs. Frisbee who, again, was not subject to the experiments, was able to tap into the power of the gem, making the whole experiment subplot kind of pointless.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS



Nap Ghost

Devils Affricate posted:

She became intelligent when her husband Jonathan came in her.

I'm assuming there's an unspoken implication that Jonathan or one of the other rats hosed the owl at some point.

Zeluth
May 12, 2001



Solar Opposites and yet still able to work with each other.

Nice!

Inverted Icon
Apr 8, 2020

by Athanatos


Well if the owl ate a serum-rat....

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

That's how it worked for Maurice

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010


Applewhite posted:

I'm assuming there's an unspoken implication that Jonathan or one of the other rats hosed the owl at some point.

Yep, the crow too (except only a little because he's stupid as hell)

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.



Toilet Rascal

I had a friend in elementary school who was obsessed with this movie, particularly the character of Justin, and now he’s a furry

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS



Nap Ghost

Don Bluth is the father of all furries.

Universe Master
Jun 20, 2005

Darn Fine Pie



do you think the smart dude rats still want to bang the dumb animal girl rats?

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience


Wait NIMH is an acronym?!

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

Isn't that where they did those creepy rat experiments?

Inverted Icon
Apr 8, 2020

by Athanatos


NIMH does a lot creepy experiments

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


The owl ate GMO rats and it altered the owls DNA.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


This is why I only eat GMO foods, in hopes it will alter my DNA in positive ways. So far I have only developed an increasingly worrying number of nipples.

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

You are what you eat

free hubcaps
Oct 12, 2009



though all the animals are anthropomorphized like you said, i think the nimh rats demonstrate their intelligence through their understanding of human things- like being able to read written language, manipulate machinery, etc. so gently caress YOU op


i read one of the sequels when i was young and i remember it kind of sucking

William Henry Hairytaint
Oct 29, 2011



free hubcaps posted:

though all the animals are anthropomorphized like you said, i think the nimh rats demonstrate their intelligence through their understanding of human things- like being able to read written language, manipulate machinery, etc. so gently caress YOU op

Yeah it's this.

Now that the OP has been rightfully humiliated, what's everyone's favorite childrens book? Mine was is and always will be Peter Pan.

Aegis Bear
Apr 27, 2007

Protecting your virginity





I think for the villain, it's handwaved because "blah blah owls wise". As for the other animals, gently caress. I got nothing...

Maybe they ate the remains of other discarded NIMHed up rats idk

EDIT: Oh problem solved. Then it's Charlotte's Web.

If you can watch this spider die without crying you have no soul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zn9B-t7Z4

free hubcaps
Oct 12, 2009



its sort of like if the rabbits from watership down suddenly ran into the gang from wind in the willows- both groups of animals are anthropomorphized, but the degrees to which they're humanized is wildly different

Smik
Mar 18, 2014



Applewhite posted:

In the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH (1971) by Robert C. O'Brien as well as the 1982 animated film The Secret of NIMH directed by Don Bluth, the colony of rats living in the rosebush attributes its high intelligence to experiments conducted on the rats by the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). These experiments supposedly explain why the rats are anthropomorphized.

This would make sense within the logic of the story except that all the other animal characters are also intelligent and anthropomorphized anyway. Mrs. Frisbee was NOT a test subject, yet she exhibits a human personality and intelligence. The scary owl who gives Mrs. Frisbee advice was similarly anthropomorphized.

If you're going to make a story about rats that become intelligent because of government experiments, that theme is somewhat undermined by just having all the animals be intelligent anyway, IMO. It seems like the only real change the rats underwent from their original state was they gained the ability to read human language.

Yeah I noticed that as a kid. If we are being *very* generous, the animals are normally relatively intelligent and anthropomorphized but their intellectual abilities are limited while the colony of rats (and two mice) have such advanced intelligence that not only can they read and write but they're also capable of advanced engineering of both mechanical and electrical nature in the span of what we can only assume has been a few years at most without any prior education. I mean keep in mind there's no rat-sized books and stealing a text book would be difficult given the relative sizes. On top of that, the rats (and 2 mice) have apparently been given lifespans well beyond normal rodents (it gets touched on).

Basically the rats aren't just smart for rats. They're considerably more intelligent than the average human now. It's a colony of Batmen and Luthors.

Zippy the Bummer
Dec 14, 2008

pro hobo

Silent Majority
THE DON







i was super excited to post in this thread because i love the film, but everything i wanted to say has already been said. i guess one odd thing is why the rats don't have tiny guns, but use swords and pikes instead. i really don't care though because the fight scene at the end is cool.

as for childhood books, Beautiful Joe, or The Hobbit



Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

IN THE GRIM BARKNESS
OF THE FUTURE
THERE ARE ONLY DOGS



Nap Ghost

Smik posted:

Yeah I noticed that as a kid. If we are being *very* generous, the animals are normally relatively intelligent and anthropomorphized but their intellectual abilities are limited while the colony of rats (and two mice) have such advanced intelligence that not only can they read and write but they're also capable of advanced engineering of both mechanical and electrical nature in the span of what we can only assume has been a few years at most without any prior education. I mean keep in mind there's no rat-sized books and stealing a text book would be difficult given the relative sizes. On top of that, the rats (and 2 mice) have apparently been given lifespans well beyond normal rodents (it gets touched on).

Basically the rats aren't just smart for rats. They're considerably more intelligent than the average human now. It's a colony of Batmen and Luthors.

Ok so... in the world of the story, all animals are as intelligent as humans, and humans took them and did experiments on them to make them MORE intelligent than humans?

Zippy the Bummer
Dec 14, 2008

pro hobo

Silent Majority
THE DON







Applewhite posted:

Ok so... in the world of the story, all animals are as intelligent as humans, and humans took them and did experiments on them to make them MORE intelligent than humans?

i assumed it was like learning a new language and then using that knowledge to understand human tech...the animals could always talk to each other, but the ones that got the shot could not only talk to other animals but also do poo poo like using power cables or whatever. note that Ms Brisby (or any animal) never try to speak to humans, but they know what they do. like when the plough is arriving or something. Ms Brisby doesn't understand human technology like her husband did, so she needs the help of the rats, and Mr Aegis, to understand.

I can't remember what the gently caress is the deal with the gemstone



DrPossum
May 15, 2004

i am not a surgeon


Taco Defender

maybe it didn't take place at all

no pubes yet sorry
Sep 11, 2003



Aegis Bear posted:


If you can watch this spider die without crying you have no soul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zn9B-t7Z4

It is weird they used to show us this in grade school when they needed to fill up time. Its pretty dark and the themes aren't exactly useful in real life at all.

OMFG FURRY
Jul 10, 2006

[snarky comment]

1) Rats can't talk

i rest my case

Laslow
Jul 18, 2007



Inverted Icon posted:

NIMH does a lot creepy experiments
I wish you could just show up and choose what looks interesting.

“High doses of PCP and its effect on lawn maintenance?” Can I trust myself with the weedwhacker and electric chainsaw? For $75 and lunch provided I guess we’re gonna find out!

Zippy the Bummer
Dec 14, 2008

pro hobo

Silent Majority
THE DON







no pubes yet sorry posted:

It is weird they used to show us this in grade school when they needed to fill up time. Its pretty dark and the themes aren't exactly useful in real life at all.

the fair
is a veritable
smorgasbord
smorgasbord

after the lights go out

it actually ties in with the rat theme

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.


None of those other animals steal electricity, which is the bar

RocketLunatic
May 6, 2005
i love lamp.

I thought the point of Secret of NIMH is that the scientists were really bad at their job because all the animals could already talk and were smart enough to make a really nice cozy three bedroom out of a cinder block, and it is the humans who are the true barbarians because of our inability to derive as much value from the housing market. That's the "secret" in the story.

Bismuth
Jun 10, 2010

the belly button hungers

Hell Gem

Universe Master posted:

do you think the smart dude rats still want to bang the dumb animal girl rats?

If the nimh rats truly have human-like minds, yes

Spaghett
May 2, 2007

Spooked ya...


This was sick

Agent Escalus
Oct 5, 2002

"I couldn't stop saying aloud how miscast Jim Carrey was!"


HD DAD posted:

I had a friend in elementary school who was obsessed with this movie, particularly the character of Justin, and now he’s a furry

I don't know anybody at any point in my life who went down that path so it's always kind of inducing questions. How hardcore? As in, he consumes a lot of anthro-animal material, or has his own character and commissions porn of himself with other furries? Did he make you roleplay back in the day? Did you break off with him because you could see he was diving headfirst into the rabbit hole? How weird a person are we talking about here?

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frumpykvetchbot
Feb 20, 2004

PROGRESSIVE SCAN

Upset Trowel

Mr. Ages was an industrious man of science; ran a pharmacy and medical practice out of his machine shop. So why would he lug around an animal bone around strapped to his outfit, as some kind of primitivist shaman hobo?

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