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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay?
This poll is closed.
Yes 160 32.92%
No 326 67.08%
Total: 486 votes
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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


There's fun variants of it that have been around for decades too.

There used to be a middle-aged black guy who would contest his traffic tickets and child support payments by sending his "Moorish Passport" that identified him as a "Moorish Citizen of the World - recognized under the United States of America's Treaty of Tripoli," which means he is only bound by Moorish law (which coincidentally doesn't recognize child support or traffic tickets).

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Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Caros posted:

I'm always sort of torn over how much empathy these chuckle fucks deserve.

Not very much, I can tell you that.

superjew
Sep 5, 2007

No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!


"Hey buddy, I just live here - I don't live here."

- every sovereign citizen

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

There used to be a middle-aged black guy who would contest his traffic tickets and child support payments by sending his "Moorish Passport" that identified him as a "Moorish Citizen of the World - recognized under the United States of America's Treaty of Tripoli," which means he is only bound by Moorish law (which coincidentally doesn't recognize child support or traffic tickets).

I'll bet that was also his response whenever the moon hit his eye like a big pizza pie.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
-----------------------------------
SA is funded by your AV purchases, thank you!



Pillbug

superjew posted:

"Hey buddy, I just live here - I don't live here."

- every sovereign citizen

"I am just a vessel for this being"

As always, Canadian Judge J.D. Rooke's takedown of the Sovcit stuff is a pro-read, he was originally overseeing a child support case, and ended up writing a paper on Sovcit legal strategies

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jul 20, 2021

Kalit
Nov 6, 2006



Caros posted:

As fun as it is to dunk on sovcits (God it is fun), it is worth remembering that the people who buy into this are typically either seriously mentally ill, or being duped into it in the same way someone becomes an antivaxer, or a capitol insurrectionist for that matter.

They don't see the videos of it failing as proof because they believe that is all fake, because they can't process it or because they are that desparate. Given how legally hosed she is it could be any of the three.

I'm always sort of torn over how much empathy these chuckle fucks deserve.

The one in Portland (Red House on Mississippi) got a lot of empathy. Can't say I'm surprised that they still haven't bought the house they've been [illegally] living in for a couple of years. Even after raising more than enough money via GoFundMe to buy it and the owner of the house agreeing to sell it to them. It still cracks me up how hard people fell for that grift.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 20, 2021

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





I'm trying to imagine them in the prison yard.

"What are you in for?"

"The Jan 6 thing, but it's all bullshit I should have got off because I'm not really a human citizen I am a pure vessel of God and did not consent to joinder"

*pees on them*

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

CommieGIR posted:

"I am just a vessel for this being"

As always, Canadian Judge J.D. Rooke's takedown of the Sovcit stuff is a pro-read, he was originally overseeing a child support case, and ended up writing a paper on Sovcit legal strategies

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

This is a pro read, I read it before but loving hell its funny to read again.

There was one great gem I remember (not sure if its in your thing here or not yet) where a sovcit tried to get all his 'evidence' accepted by the court, and it was a pile of papers with mad poo poo scrawled on them, with stamps everywhere.
First couple of pages were about if the judge accepts these papers, then he accepts the guy is innocent, that he will pay 5 billion in silver to the sovcit, and do whatever the sovcit wanted forever.
Judge wouldn't accept it, so he left it behind on the desk. I think the Judge said that anything left behind would be just dumped.
Cant remember if it was dumped or not.

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012




Section f: tax-related magic hats

Inferior Third Season
Jan 15, 2005

USPOL May



happyhippy posted:

"Welp, she said the magic words folks. Officer, let her go, can't do anything to her now and forever"
I'd be more dismissive of the "magic words" nonsense if it weren't for things like this:

An actual concurring opinion by a Louisiana Supreme Court justice in an 8-1 decision posted:

In my view, the defendant’s ambiguous and equivocal reference to a “lawyer dog” does not constitute an invocation of counsel that warrants termination of the interview and does not violate Edwards v. Arizona, 451 U.S. 477, 101 S.Ct. 1880, 68 L.Ed.2d 378 (1981).

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
-----------------------------------
SA is funded by your AV purchases, thank you!



Pillbug

happyhippy posted:

This is a pro read, I read it before but loving hell its funny to read again.

There was one great gem I remember (not sure if its in your thing here or not yet) where a sovcit tried to get all his 'evidence' accepted by the court, and it was a pile of papers with mad poo poo scrawled on them, with stamps everywhere.
First couple of pages were about if the judge accepts these papers, then he accepts the guy is innocent, that he will pay 5 billion in silver to the sovcit, and do whatever the sovcit wanted forever.
Judge wouldn't accept it, so he left it behind on the desk. I think the Judge said that anything left behind would be just dumped.
Cant remember if it was dumped or not.

Jason Scott's Defcon talk about when he pissed off a sovcit with his textfiles.com archive is pretty good and along the same lines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74g7wSTYUso

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


40 State AGs and Lawyers from Municipalities are close to announcing a settlement Johnson and Johnson, Cardinal Health, McKesson ,and AmerisourceBergen over their role in manufacturing and encouraging opioid prescriptions.

Main bullet points:

- Companies will pay $26 billion in damages to distribute to plaintiffs (the states and municipalities have to work out how to disribute this money, which is the one thing holding up the deal)

- Companies will pay $2 billion for legal fees for all of the states and municipalities.

- Companies will fund addiction and treatment centers in those 40 states for the next 17 years.

- All of these companies must agree to never manufacture opioids again.

- Companies will create mandatory "red flag" programs to automatically suspend suspicious pill sales to pharmacies that will be subject to annual audits from the states.

- Companies do not admit or deny wrongdoing (this prevents them from essentially automatically losing all civil cases against them in the future)

- This does not end all of the other lawsuits against the companies, but the state AGs and municipalities will consider the cases settled unless new information comes out.

- This settlement is just for these companies - the other manufacturers, the distributers, and pharmacies are all excluded.

quote:

States and Cities Near Tentative $26 Billion Deal in Opioids Cases

The agreement would end thousands of lawsuits against the three largest distributors and Johnson & Johnson and require them to pay billions for addiction treatment and prevention.

The three largest pharmaceutical distributors and Johnson & Johnson are on the verge of a $26 billion deal with states and municipalities that would settle thousands of lawsuits over their role in the opioid epidemic and pay for addiction and prevention services nationwide.

An agreement could be announced this week but several people with knowledge of the talks cautioned that the deal could still fall apart or have significant changes.

The intensifying negotiations, which began more than two years ago, arrive as trials bear down on the defendants and addiction and overdose rates continue to mount during the pandemic.

Brokered by a bipartisan group of about 13 state attorneys general and lawyers for local governments, the deal still requires several steps before formal agreement, including voting on it by all parties in the litigation. It includes incentives to induce more plaintiffs to come on board, such as bigger up front payments. Unlike earlier proposals, however, this one appears to have the critical backing of more than 40 states and includes a sweetener of $2 billion in plaintiff attorneys’ fees.

The companies are the pharmaceutical giant, Johnson & Johnson, and the country’s major medical distributors — Cardinal Health, McKesson and AmerisourceBergen.

Cardinal Health declined to comment. The other distributors did not reply to requests for comment.

Johnson & Johnson said in a statement, “There continues to be progress toward finalizing this agreement and we remain committed to providing certainty for involved parties and critical assistance for families and communities in need.

The settlement is not an admission of liability or wrongdoing, and the company will continue to defend against any litigation that the final agreement does not resolve.”

The deal is contingent, in part, on an overwhelming majority of states and local governments that have sued, as well as those who have not yet filed cases, to agree to the terms.

A separate agreement between tribes and the companies is still being negotiated.

The settlement does not conclude all of the multifaceted nationwide opioid litigation, in which the first cases were filed in 2014. Lawsuits have been filed against three broad categories of defendants that represent the steps along the drug supply chain: manufacturers, distributors and dispensers, like pharmacies.

Many companies within these categories have yet to settle. Some manufacturing defendants, like Purdue Pharma and Mallinckrodt, have proceedings in bankruptcy court, and Teva and Allergan are on trial. Cases against pharmaceutical chains, such as CVS Health, Walgreens and Walmart, are even farther back on the runway.

According to lawyers familiar with negotiations, Johnson & Johnson, which made an opioid painkiller and a fentanyl patch and supplied opium-based ingredients to other drug manufacturers, would pay $3.7 billion in the first three years and $1.3 billion over the next six years. It had already shut down its supply business and discontinued its opioids, and agreed to refrain from selling opioids.

The distributors were accused by plaintiffs of having long turned a blind eye to outsized orders. Collectively the companies will pay $21 billion in 18 payments over 17 years. The fees of lawyers, who pursued and financed the costly litigation for years, will be deducted from the total figure and are expected to be paid more quickly than some funds for addiction treatment. The distributors also admitted no wrongdoing and, much like Johnson & Johnson, noted that they were participants in the supply chain for drugs that were federally approved and monitored.

The agreement would compel senior executives among the distributors to play an active role in establishing programs to monitor red-flag pill sales.

In exchange for the payments, the companies are demanding what is known as “global peace” — an agreement by plaintiffs to put down their litigating swords for good. The proposals will be voted on by representatives for 3,022 cases assembled before one federal judge, Dan A. Polster, in Cleveland, and the state attorneys general, who have the power to pursue the defendants in state courts, where several hundred other cases against the companies have also been filed.

The negotiations are being led by lawyers for the local governments as well as the states of North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New York and Massachusetts, among others.

The distributors as well as several manufacturers are in the midst of a trial in a case brought by the state of New York and two of its counties.

On Tuesday morning, Letitia James, the attorney general for New York, announced a $1.1 billion deal with the distributors to settle that case. That money would be a part of the overall $26 billion settlement, but so far, it is the only deal that has been formally agreed to. Payments to New York state could begin in two months, Ms. James said.

Compared to October, 2019, when four attorneys general announced the first iteration of a brokered plan, the latest offering includes more money, particularly for lawyers, and a clearer allocation structure to deliver settlement money to states and localities.

A persistent tension in the talks has been over the division of funds among states and local municipalities, including cities and counties. That type of rancor ensued after the Big Tobacco deal in 1998, when much of the settlement money was eventually diverted to balance state budgets. Local governments received a scant trickle.

The new settlement envisions a national formula for disbursing money to states and flexibility within each state to broker a deal with the governments of counties and localities so that the bulk of the funds are aimed at alleviating the opioid epidemic and preventing its recurrence.

Determining what each state would be paid was difficult, with states and counties elbowing each other, even as they were fighting with defendants. The allocation to each state now relies on extensive federal data and includes metrics like a state’s population, overdose deaths, opioid pill sales and disorders related to pain pill abuse.

The money remains a sharp point of contention for a handful of states that are not on board.

Most states will likely work up their own disbursement plans. Ohio, North Carolina, Arizona, Texas and Florida and others have already brokered internal, state-specific formulas. Last month, the New York legislature passed bills that would ensure that all funds from the opioid litigation settlement would go into a “locked box,” to be used only to address the crisis.

A critical lever in advancing settlement terms has been the high-stakes gamble of a trial. The distributors have been locked in trial in a West Virginia federal court and in a New York state court.

Johnson & Johnson, and other manufacturers, are on trial in California state court and just settled with the state of New York and two New York counties last month, on the eve of trial. The money for the New York settlement, $230 million, will be paid over nine years with an additional $33 million for lawyers’ costs and fees, that will be deducted from the national amount, if finalized.

Indeed one sticking point for years was attorneys’ fees. Innumerable lawyers contributed different amounts of work and during negotiations, they would fight with each other over who should get paid how much. According to the settlement, about $1.6 billion in fees and costs would be paid to private lawyers representing thousands of counties and municipalities, $50 million in costs, and about $350 million to private lawyers who worked for states.

Johnson & Johnson, widely known as a company that prefers to take cases to trial rather than settle, has faced rivers of adverse publicity in recent years. Last month, the United States Supreme Court let stand a $2.1 billion verdict against the company for asbestos deaths related to its talcum powder. The company was also battered by reports of rare cases of blood clotting and a neurological condition associated with its single-dose Covid vaccine and a recall of some of its sunscreens.

But plaintiffs also faced increasing pressure to settle, as legal costs mounted.

And most urgently, so did the numbers of people addicted to prescription opioid and street drugs during the pandemic. Last week, the federal government announced that 2020 saw a record number of overdose deaths from opioids, both illegal and prescribed.

Notably, the settlement funds are not intended to compensate families of the victims of the two-decade-long opioid crisis, during which at least 500,000 people died from overdoses of prescription and street opioids, according to federal data.

These cases were brought largely by state, municipal and tribal governments under a theory known as “public nuisance” — that the opioid supply chain companies were responsible for creating a disaster that interfered with public health. The remedy for a public nuisance claim is “abatement” — money for programs to reduce the “nuisance.”

While critics of the current settlement argue that the distributors have a leisurely 17 years to pony up their share, the deal’s defenders note that for programs like addiction prevention, education and treatment to take root, infusions of cash will be needed over a sustained period.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/health/opioid-settlement-distributors-johnson.html

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



Caros posted:

As fun as it is to dunk on sovcits (God it is fun), it is worth remembering that the people who buy into this are typically either seriously mentally ill, or being duped into it in the same way someone becomes an antivaxer, or a capitol insurrectionist for that matter.

They don't see the videos of it failing as proof because they believe that is all fake, because they can't process it or because they are that desparate. Given how legally hosed she is it could be any of the three.

I'm always sort of torn over how much empathy these chuckle fucks deserve.

None.

Empathy towards these chuckle fucks is one of the reasons America is dealing with this poo poo right now. The primary one IMO.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jul 20, 2021

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013



SovCits make me laugh, well, for a lot of reasons. But mostly because they are so close to something approaching integrity but fall on their rear end trying. "I do not consent to your laws" is a pretty classic example of peaceful resistance throughout modern history, but is generally accompanied by an acknowledgement that you then must abide by the consequences of that e.g. arrest.

Instead they think they are literally immune to law so way to gently caress up peaceful resistance idiots.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
-----------------------------------
SA is funded by your AV purchases, thank you!



Pillbug

Mendrian posted:

Instead they think they are literally immune to law so way to gently caress up peaceful resistance idiots.

Most of these guys are "peacefully resisting" not paying taxes and child support poo poo. Its peaceful resistance to actual responsibility.

And yeah, most of these guys are ill or being actively exploited by the Sovcit gurus and survivalist guys they pick this stuff up from.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 20, 2021

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee


It's hard to be too sympathetic when, like, 90% of the time they're also assholes who are refusing to pay alimony and child support on principle.

Can't pay child support if I'm in jail!

cr0y
Mar 24, 2005

IRONKNUCKLE PERMBANNED! READ HERE


https://twitter.com/axios/status/1417494311810306060?s=19

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Sovcit "documentation" in particular makes it clear that these people are really just in a white supremacist cult.

It doesn't appear that even sovereign citizens believe that the magic words will really get them out of trouble in court, rather than serve as a declaration and appeal to the Higher Truth of the cult. Making a loud splash also makes them feel powerful and important.

American Neo-Nazis have also been setting up communes in the boonies since forever that they want everyone to consider sovereign nations, and sovereign citizenship etc. is just a natural offshoot of that thinking. When one gets dragged into court to finally pay taxes or child support, it's an expression of solidarity with the other white supremacists who haven't been dragged off the farm yet to keep going. They're also not interested in peaceful resistance, they're active terrorist organizations. Who do you think is burning a lot of these black churches and synagogues?

So in short, you do not gotta hand it to them. It's just Aryan Nations poo poo.

Sodomy Hussein fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jul 20, 2021

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
-----------------------------------
SA is funded by your AV purchases, thank you!



Pillbug

Worthwhile video of Dr. Fauci telling of Rand Paul:

https://twitter.com/Covid19WarRoom/status/1417500531749269517?s=20

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World



Just out of fucks to give lol

eviltastic
Feb 8, 2004



Fan of Britches

Sodomy Hussein posted:

Sovcit "documentation" in particular makes it clear that these people are really just in a white supremacist cult.

It doesn't appear that even sovereign citizens believe that the magic words will really get them out of trouble in court, rather than serve as a declaration and appeal to the Higher Truth of the cult. Making a loud splash also makes them feel powerful and important.
...
So in short, you do not gotta hand it to them. It's just Aryan Nations poo poo.

The handful I have had firsthand experience with expected it to work, and one was an otherwise reasonable Black activist. There may well be plenty of crossover with Nazi idiots, and a lot of what happens with them in court is absolutely performative nonsense. But plenty of people, racial minorities included, get hooked with One Weird Trick kinda pitches and are blindsided by the result.

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Caros posted:

I'm always sort of torn over how much empathy these chuckle fucks deserve.

Let me help you out. This person and the people who share her "belief system" would gladly hang you in public for being whatever buzzword they choose to signify deviation from a fascist norm. They'd kill you, your friends, and your family in order to purify the state. And they'd do it with pleasure.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!



I’m sure it would’ve just resulted in his being fired, but man to have had this exchange more than a year ago

TVs Ian
Jun 1, 2000

Such graceful, delicate creatures.


eviltastic posted:

The handful I have had firsthand experience with expected it to work, and one was an otherwise reasonable Black activist. There may well be plenty of crossover with Nazi idiots, and a lot of what happens with them in court is absolutely performative nonsense. But plenty of people, racial minorities included, get hooked with One Weird Trick kinda pitches and are blindsided by the result.

It seems like some people get into a hole they can't get out of - usually tax related or some other financial obligation - and wind up falling for the sovcit nonsense that people sell as a Get Out Of Taxes Free card. They don't necessarily make the connection to everything else.

But 99.9%, yeah, absolutely awful people and some percentage of those are definitely dangerous. In more than the "filing false liens against anyone who wronged them" sense.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
-----------------------------------
SA is funded by your AV purchases, thank you!



Pillbug

Thaddius the Large posted:

I’m sure it would’ve just resulted in his being fired, but man to have had this exchange more than a year ago

Yeah I'm pretty sure he was trying to protect his work and his position so that he could keep doing work on the epidemic, so it was probably the right thing to do given Trump Admins willingness to just fire anyone for a slip of the tongue.

Youth Decay
Aug 17, 2015

a little too tithonic
yeah I really do think



I want to say that Dr. Paul is putting on an act and doesn't actually believe the anti-vaxx pro-death fearmongering he's saying but then I remembered he literally made up his own fake certification letting him practice opthalmology.

But man, there are far too many actual doctors in the GOP ranks for them to keep doing this poo poo. 4 in the Senate, 11 including Paul in the House.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.


Youth Decay posted:

I want to say that Dr. Paul is putting on an act and doesn't actually believe the anti-vaxx pro-death fearmongering he's saying but then I remembered he literally made up his own fake certification letting him practice opthalmology.

But man, there are far too many actual doctors in the GOP ranks for them to keep doing this poo poo. 4 in the Senate, 11 including Paul in the House.

You should note that Fauci did not actually address Paul's point and answered a question that was not asked.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


The fact that citizens of the United States got lucky enough to be in the first place where an actual scientific miracle drug is completely free, available at every pharmacy without an appointment, many places are literally paying them in cash and paid time-off to go get it, and it can literally save your life/prevent long-term heart and lung damage and save the lives of your neighbors and family, but still not getting it is the most depressing thing in politics right now.

They aren't just not getting it out of laziness or cost, but they are adamantly refusing to get it, encouraging others to do the same, and actively making life difficult and more dangerous for the people who did get it by allowing variants to brew inside them.

All in opposition to a vaccine that was developed by American pharmaceutical companies and taken by Donald Trump himself.

quote:

Linda Marion, 68, a widow with chronic pulmonary disease, worried that a vaccination might actually trigger Covid-19 and kill her. Barbara Billigmeier, 74, an avid golfer who retired here from California, believed she did not need it because “I never get sick.”

quote:

When the boat factory in this leafy Ozark Mountains city offered free coronavirus vaccinations this spring, Susan Johnson, 62, a receptionist there, declined the offer.

quote:

Last week, all three were patients on 2 West, an overflow ward that is now largely devoted to treating Covid-19 at Baxter Regional Medical Center, the largest hospital in north-central Arkansas. Mrs. Billigmeier said the scariest part was that “you can’t breathe.” For 10 days, Ms. Johnson had relied on supplemental oxygen being fed to her lungs through nasal tubes.

Ms. Marion said that at one point, she felt so sick and frightened that she wanted to give up. “It was just terrible,” she said. “I felt like I couldn’t take it.”

quote:

Yet despite their ordeals, none of them changed their minds about getting vaccinated. “It’s just too new,” Mrs. Billigmeier said. “It is like an experiment.”

quote:

While infections rose in more than half the nation’s counties last week, those with low vaccination rates were far more likely to see bigger jumps. Among the 25 counties with the sharpest increases in cases, all but one had vaccinated under 40 percent of residents, and 16 had vaccinated under 30 percent, a New York Times analysis found.

quote:

Overall, Arkansas ranks near the bottom of states in the share of population that is vaccinated. Only 44 percent of residents have received at least one shot.

“Boy, we’ve tried just about everything we can think of,” a retired National Guard colonel, Robert Ator, who runs the state’s vaccination effort, said in an interview. For about one in three residents, he said, “I don’t think there’s a thing in the world we could do to get them to get vaccinated.”

For that, the state is paying a price. Hospitalizations have quadrupled since mid-May. More than a third of patients are in intensive care. Deaths, a lagging indicator, are also expected to rise, health officials said.

quote:

Dr. Mark Williams, the dean of the College of Public Health at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, said the Delta variant was upending his projections for the pandemic. It is spreading through the state’s unvaccinated population “at a very fast rate,” he said, and threatens to strain the ability of hospitals to cope. “I would say we have definitely hit the alarming stage,” he said.

quote:

At Baxter Regional, many doctors and nurses are girding for another wave while still exhausted from battling the pandemic they thought had abated.

“I started having flashbacks, like PTSD,” said Dr. Martin, the pulmonologist, who obsesses over her patients’ care. “This is going to sound very selfish but unfortunately it’s true: The fact that people won’t get vaccinated means I can’t go home and see my kids for dinner.”

quote:

The Biden administration has pledged to help stem outbreaks by supplying Covid-19 tests and treatments, promoting vaccines with advertising campaigns and sending community health workers door to door to try to persuade the hesitant.

But not all those tactics are welcome. Dr. Romero said Arkansas would happily accept more monoclonal antibody therapies, a Covid-19 treatment often used in outpatient settings. But Mr. Ator, the vaccine coordinator, said door-knocking “would probably do more harm than good,” given residents’ suspicions of federal intentions.

Both said the Arkansas public had been saturated with vaccine promotions and incentives, including free lottery tickets, hunting and fishing licenses and stands offering shots at state parks and high school graduation ceremonies.

quote:

The last mass vaccination event was May 4, when the Arkansas Travelers, a minor-league baseball team, had its first game since the pandemic hit. Thousands gathered at the stadium in Little Rock to watch. Fourteen accepted shots.

Even health care workers have balked. Statewide, only about 40 percent are vaccinated
, Dr. Romero said.

In April, the state legislature added yet another roadblock, making it essentially illegal for any state or local entity, including public hospitals, to require coronavirus vaccination as a condition of education or employment until two years after the Food and Drug Administration fully licenses a shot. That almost certainly means no such requirements can be issued until late in 2023.

quote:

When the pandemic hit, Baxter Regional became a vaccine distribution center and inoculated 5,500 people. But only half of its 1,800 staff members accepted shots, according to Jonny Harvey, its occupational health coordinator. By early June, demand had tapered off so much that the hospital was administering an average of one a day.

quote:

The average age of a coronavirus patient in Arkansas has dropped by nearly a decade since December — from 63 to 54 — a reflection of the fact that three-fourths of older Arkansans are at least partly vaccinated. But some patients at the Little Rock hospital are in their 20s or 30s.

“It’s really discouraging to see younger, sicker patients,” Dr. Mette said. “We didn’t see this degree of illness earlier in the epidemic.”

quote:

Last month, the hospital had to reopen a coronavirus ward it had closed in late spring. On Monday, it reopened a second.

quote:

Many of the nurses there wore colorful stickers announcing they were vaccinated. Ashley Ayers, 26, a traveling nurse from Dallas, did not. Noting that vaccine development typically took years, she said she worried that the shot might impair her fertility — even though there is no evidence of that.

“I just think it was rushed,” she said.

quote:

David Deutscher, 49, said he fought Covid for 10 days at home before he went to the hospital with a 105-degree fever. When he failed to improve with monoclonal antibody treatment, he said, “that was probably the most scared I have ever been.” He called a friend, the daughter of a medical researcher, from his hospital bed. “Please don’t let me die,” he said.

He said he never got vaccinated because he figured a mask would suffice. In the past 21 years, he has had the flu once.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/us/arkansas-covid-19-vaccine.html

Morrow
Oct 31, 2010


PeterCat posted:

You should note that Fauci did not actually address Paul's point and answered a question that was not asked.

It's important to address the root cause. This was a question about the conspiracy theory involving covid leaking from the lab. The correct answer is Rand Paul is an idiot.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
-----------------------------------
SA is funded by your AV purchases, thank you!



Pillbug

Morrow posted:

It's important to address the root cause. This was a question about the conspiracy theory involving covid leaking from the lab. The correct answer is Rand Paul is an idiot.

Yeah Rand Paul has spent the entirety of every session with Fauci in the past few months dropping the most mind numbingly stupid questions possible. Fauci was well within the right for calling him out given this is like the 4th or 5th time he's appeared before this committee.

PeterCat posted:

You should note that Fauci did not actually address Paul's point and answered a question that was not asked.

Please highlight a question from Rand Paul that actually would be worth answering or taking seriously, he's basically spent every interview with Fauci before this committee as a way to air some downright insane claims about the epidemic and vaccines.

How are u
May 19, 2005

Halloween is a critical cornerstone of our great country. Stay Spooky

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The fact that citizens of the United States got lucky enough to be in the first place where an actual scientific miracle drug is completely free, available at every pharmacy without an appointment, many places are literally paying them in cash and paid time-off to go get it, and it can literally save your life/prevent long-term heart and lung damage and save the lives of your neighbors and family, but still not getting it is the most depressing thing in politics right now.

They aren't just not getting it out of laziness or cost, but they are adamantly refusing to get it, encouraging others to do the same, and actively making life difficult and more dangerous for the people who did get it by allowing variants to brew inside them.

All in opposition to a vaccine that was developed by American pharmaceutical companies and taken by Donald Trump himself.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/us/arkansas-covid-19-vaccine.html

All these fucks deserve whatever they get, but I just wish that in doing so they didn't affect the rest of us. Good god drat Lord.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


Morrow posted:

It's important to address the root cause. This was a question about the conspiracy theory involving covid leaking from the lab. The correct answer is Rand Paul is an idiot.

It wasn't even really a question about the lab leak theory. That would have at least been vaguely on-topic.

He wanted Fauci to say that China created Covid if it leaked from their lab. He just kept pressing him to say China "made it" and wasn't even asking questions about the actual origin.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

Santa's gonna cut you man, Santa's a blade man, man.
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Pillbug

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It wasn't even really a question about the lab leak theory. That would have at least been vaguely on-topic.

He wanted Fauci to say that China created Covid if it leaked from their lab. He just kept pressing him to say China "made it" and wasn't even asking questions about the actual origin.

Yup

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1417509847675904011?s=20

Rand is repeating a common theory among the Qanon crowd about how the NIH was somehow responsible for Covid through Wuhan Lab funding. He straight up basically accused Fauci of lying to congress, so gently caress him.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 20, 2021

Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013



How are u posted:

All these fucks deserve whatever they get, but I just wish that in doing so they didn't affect the rest of us. Good god drat Lord.

Hard same ^^^^^^^^^^

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



How are u posted:

All these fucks deserve whatever they get, but I just wish that in doing so they didn't affect the rest of us. Good god drat Lord.

Amen.

Just loving die. Why are you in the hospital, you goddamn pieces of rat poo poo? How many people in developing countries would have the vaccine or otherwise been saved from this virus with the money that goes into treating the willfully ignorant?

quote:

“I started having flashbacks, like PTSD,” said Dr. Martin, the pulmonologist, who obsesses over her patients’ care. “This is going to sound very selfish but unfortunately it’s true: The fact that people won’t get vaccinated means I can’t go home and see my kids for dinner.”

What depresses me is that there are still doctors and nurses who feel ashamed over being angry at these people. I'd relish the chance of giving it straight when they are trapped in their beds. If it is ok to berate people over eating badly or not giving up their addictions (which harms zero other people) it should be 100% fine to make these people feel like the fucks they are, over not taking 10 minutes out of their day to prevent the spread of the loving plague.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jul 20, 2021

Velocity Raptor
Jul 27, 2007

This story - this "legend" - it's ours. We can change the world - and with it, the future.



CommieGIR posted:

Yup

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1417509847675904011?s=20

Rand is repeating a common theory among the Qanon crowd about how the NIH was somehow responsible for Covid through Wuhan Lab funding. He straight up basically accused Fauci of lying to congress, so gently caress him.


Those videos are infuriating to watch. As soon as Fauci's reply isn't heading in the direction that Paul approves, he immediately interrupts and talks over. Even when the time expired, he still continues to interrupt and basically not allow his question to get answered.

It's clear these people don't actually give a flying gently caress about what they're asking, they just want to catch the "other side" in a gotcha.

E: half expected a follow up question: "And tell me Dr. Fauci, if that is your real name..." :smug:

Velocity Raptor fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 20, 2021

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!



Seems another Trump advisor (Tom Barrack) has been arrested and charged for failure to register as a foreign agent for the UAE among other things.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1417555089926074373

DOJ press release here
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-advisor-presidential-candidate-among-three-defendants-charged-acting-agents-foreign

Indictment linked in this tweet
https://twitter.com/ZoeTillman/status/1417557763106947075

Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 20, 2021

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

Velocity Raptor posted:

Those videos are infuriating to watch. As soon as Fauci's reply isn't heading in the direction that Paul approves, he immediately interrupts and talks over. Even when the time expired, he still continues to interrupt and basically not allow his question to get answered.

It's clear these people don't actually give a flying gently caress about what they're asking, they just want to catch the "other side" in a gotcha.

E: half expected a follow up question: "And tell me Dr. Fauci, if that is your real name..." :smug:

That’s been the conservative strategy forever now and hardly anyone calls them out on it and instead you get Erin Burnett on CNN nodding her head in agreement with John Kasic when he’s full of poo poo and Barney Frank tries his best to call him out on it

Somehow being louder or outraged pulls the conservatives into going “Yes this man must be right.”

cr0y
Mar 24, 2005

IRONKNUCKLE PERMBANNED! READ HERE


Meanwhile this experimental totally new vaccine gave me such minor side effects I had to talk myself out of believing that my dose was a dud.

"Yes I got covid, feared for my life and was in a living, breathless hell for 2 weeks just slowly accepting my own death, but can you imagine getting the vaccine? Now that's the scary part"

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Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013



With the exception of children or the immunocompromised, maybe we should have hospitals start turning away unvaccinated people with COVID-19 unless they agree to get vaccinated when (if) they recover. Maybe just turn them away entirely. I can't imagine there are many people left in the US who have not had a chance to get vaccinated at this point.

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