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Escape From Noise

Getting a flurry of texts from the owner on your day off over some bullshit he definitely doesn't understand is definitely a good sign.

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Twenty Four


rear end-penny posted:

You've been at the same place for a long while right? How often does management get changed up? What is preventing you from looking for other employment?

Yeah, like 15 years or so, give or take, I kind of lost exact track. At my old location, that I spent maybe 14ish years at, management would change every couple of years or so until the last change where we got a huge rear end in a top hat manager that was basically running me out until I transferred to a new location. I'm not saying all the previous managers were good, but when you are around for that long and none of the previous ones had any problems with me, you can gather that the problem was him, not myself. Not to toot my own horn, but I am pretty easy going and likeable, but also work really hard. Also considering when I transferred, the entire rest of the staff had either quit or transferred save myself and one other person not counting the new hires.

At my new location, which I have been at for maybe a year and a half (two and a half maybe?), we are looking at a third management change with two interim periods most of which happening rapid fire in the last half year, so like 5 total which is insane. Also the backup semi-competent guy who has filled in in between who has been with the company with me at both locations for maybe 8 years is leaving as soon as the next change comes around, or so I have heard through the grape vine, which frightens me since at least he could keep things running. All that said I still prefer this location then if I was stuck with the last management at the location I was at forever.

I have untreated anxiety issues and tend to fear the unknown so I worry about this stuff a lot, way more then I should. And that is one of the reasons I don't seek out other employment, as you asked. Even if it can be tumultuous at times, and I am often left mostly in the dark, I know I am good at my job and things usually work themselves out eventually. I'm not even sure what else I would do after doing the same thing for so long, and I doubt changing companies in the same field would change much other then probably being more corporate and less laid back, and not being able to have a few of the perks I get with my seniority and performance. The changes where I am scares me less then the change of going elsewhere. Even typing this all out makes me nervous.

All this for a job that has no benefits, no raises or bonuses (after 15 plus years!) and no advancement unless I wanted to make the mistake of going into management myself which I know would be a horrible idea. The management turnover is high for more then a couple of reasons. If I could go back in time, I would change everything, and I know the obvious easier said then done advice is "it's not too late!" but it really feels like it, especially considering what I said above.

Anyhow, sorry for the too long to read for byob serious post, but I guess that's what this thread is for!

Escape From Noise

Make as long a post as you need

Finger Prince


Teddy Thunders posted:

I actually don't have a single desire in my body to sell, I'm just incredibly good at it. I have no ambition and the only reason I have a job is to satisfy my now estranged wife, because I run two separate businesses full time with a huge net profit (actual profit after expenses and taking out salary, not revenue) and actually enjoy my work when left to my own devices. Having a "real job," as she calls it, nets me zero benefits, I make an hourly poo poo wage, I'm berated constantly and it's cutting into my time that I could be spending volunteering or growing my own poo poo.

I never thought I could be in sales because I'd have to really believe in the product I'm selling to be convincing, but the older I get the more I think I could do it because I'm cynical and don't really give a poo poo. I still couldn't do it though. I thought most big corporate sales people were paid mostly or at least partly by commission? You're making multimillion dollar sales and you're paid an hourly wage? That's some bullshit.
The idea that working for some dillhole that pays you an hourly wage to say yes sir right away sir is the only real and honest way to make a buck is some hosed up bullshit and I wish I realized this 23 years ago.
In other news, I'll be returning to work soon, which is good, it'll be work from home for now, which is better, and I only need to do it for two more years, which is best. But I also need to do it for two more years which kind of sucks all that good better best stuff right out.

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


That's the thing. I keep kicking the can down the road saying "just a few more months" and it's been two years almost.

I feel like two years is a long time considering that I'm the longest serving employee they've ever had. That's depressing.

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


If I were pulling commission at the rate the former guy was I would have made over a million in two weeks.

Escape From Noise

That's what I fear, still saying "This is just temporary." a year or two later.

Finger Prince


Escape From Noise posted:

That's what I fear, still saying "This is just temporary." a year or two later.

Sometimes it's all you can do to get you through it.

Escape From Noise

Finger Prince posted:

Sometimes it's all you can do to get you through it.

I don't think I could take a full year of this.

xcheopis


Finger Prince posted:

I never thought I could be in sales because I'd have to really believe in the product I'm selling to be convincing, but the older I get the more I think I could do it because I'm cynical and don't really give a poo poo. I still couldn't do it though.

I am still not able to sell convincingly unless I believe in what I'm selling HOWEVER this means that friends trust my recommendations, so think of it that way!

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Escape From Noise

Last two years have been kind of hell tbh

xcheopis


Escape From Noise posted:

Last two years have been kind of hell tbh

Do you think your old job will be available again soon?

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Escape From Noise

xcheopis posted:

Do you think your old job will be available again soon?

Possibly? It really depends on the Osaka tax office in Kita-ku. The people in the company I talked to are very sure that they're getting their brewing license in July, the guy I know who's helping them with the paperwork for the license thinks it'll take longer than that. With how strict the tax office has been, the fourth COVID wave closing a lot of things down, and the company's inexperience with the whole process, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until next year. They're apparently still going ahead with the Olympics despite the current increase in cases in most of the major cities, and I'd be surprised if we get a general vaccine rollout here before the end of the year, and with the tax office and other major non customer service places basically closing down mid December to mid January, I think this kind of cements the situation. We'll see though.

xcheopis


Escape From Noise posted:

Possibly? It really depends on the Osaka tax office in Kita-ku. The people in the company I talked to are very sure that they're getting their brewing license in July, the guy I know who's helping them with the paperwork for the license thinks it'll take longer than that. With how strict the tax office has been, the fourth COVID wave closing a lot of things down, and the company's inexperience with the whole process, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until next year. They're apparently still going ahead with the Olympics despite the current increase in cases in most of the major cities, and I'd be surprised if we get a general vaccine rollout here before the end of the year, and with the tax office and other major non customer service places basically closing down mid December to mid January, I think this kind of cements the situation. We'll see though.

Oof. That's a long wait.

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Escape From Noise

xcheopis posted:

Oof. That's a long wait.

Also I'm supposed to give three months notice

xcheopis


One of our managers retired in March. I did some minor tasks for her, including making sure the invoices she processed were logged and copies saved to the right folder. Logging means having all of the PO information already set up, which kind of stopped happening around August. In fairness, it was a very, very busy and stressful time!
While we waited for a new manager to be hired, her part of the invoice process was taken over by another admin, who made it clear she didn't like doing it and barely put in any effort. Repeated reminders to please enter the info so that I can log the drat things got sullen replies.
Finally, the new manager was hired and it was decided that, effective immediately, I would take over that entire process. Fair enough! I have an accounting background and I've worked with the idiot software we use, so, yes, it's yet more work but at least it will get done.
It took me all day to process the backlog because the necessary information wasn't entered and/or she was putting the wrong information on the invoice. :cripes: It's so frustrating.

At least it's done and I don't have to interact with her much any more.

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Ass-penny

:popeye: Twenty Four that is a lot of turnover! I don't know if I could function like that.

Escape From Noise posted:

Also I'm supposed to give three months notice

what before you quit this job where the boss sounds like a child pretending to run a brewery?


thank you so much to nesamdoom for the scurry fall sig!

(┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻ #YesNutNovember - add this to your sig if you love and support BYOB's own nut

xcheopis


Escape From Noise posted:

Also I'm supposed to give three months notice

Is that standard (in Japan) for your industry?

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Escape From Noise

rear end-penny posted:

:popeye: Twenty Four that is a lot of turnover! I don't know if I could function like that.


what before you quit this job where the boss sounds like a child pretending to run a brewery?

Yeah. It's not exactly enforceable, legal requirement is one month in Japan, and you can be held financially accountable for leaving before that, the flip side is that it's legally very difficult to fire someone here.

All that aside, if I can leave, I probably give at least two months notice because I'd have to move again, and I'm currently living in a company apartment. Finding a new apartment and moving in here takes like a few months usually. First you need to find an apartment with a real estate agent, that usually takes about a month, then get approval from the landlord or property management company, then sign the contract and put down your money, then it takes a month or two before the apartment is usually ready.

I had to move in a rush the last couple times I moved, the time before last I ended up with a pretty crappy apartment, the next time was pretty good, but I think I could have found something a little better with more time. I was barely able to move into the new place before my old boss was kicking me out because they controlled the lease. Despite all of the problems I have here I don't think my current boss will pull anything like that, but moving here takes a lot more time and I'd like extra time to find something more ideal for me.

Escape From Noise

We actually cleaned a tank properly for the first time since I got here. Caustic mixed with hot water, followed by a hot water rinse, a cold water rinse, and finally paracetic acid mixed with cold water followed by a pressurization with CO2, degassing, and a final pressurization with CO2. It feels very good

magic cactus

We lied. We are not at war. There is no enemy. This is a rescue operation.
Oh man, usually I like my job, but today I had to proofread the most bullshit of all academic bullshit papers I've ever read thus far. The subject was basically every person's critique of academia rolled into one. Just thinking about the amount of money my boss probably made on this bullshit "study" makes me mad.

:doom:

oh well, almost quittin' time.



Thanks to Saoshyant for the amazing spring '23 sig!

xcheopis


It's weird being in this office by myself again. Bit nice, because I can keep my mask off and turn up the volume on music.

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

xcheopis


magic cactus posted:

Oh man, usually I like my job, but today I had to proofread the most bullshit of all academic bullshit papers I've ever read thus far. The subject was basically every person's critique of academia rolled into one. Just thinking about the amount of money my boss probably made on this bullshit "study" makes me mad.

:doom:

oh well, almost quittin' time.

There are so many things I like about my job but some of the bureaucratic stuff is ridiculously stupid.

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


I have cleared approximately seven years in revenue, five in net profit, by myself in eight weeks.

My boss today: "I think you might be okay at selling but you should use <outdated verbiage>."

Me: but that doesn't apply anymore, because <reasons>.

My boss: "since when? It's always been like this, right?"

Me: since 2017. That's why you were hemorrhaging customers.

xcheopis


Teddy Thunders posted:

I have cleared approximately seven years in revenue, five in net profit, by myself in eight weeks.

My boss today: "I think you might be okay at selling but you should use <outdated verbiage>."

Me: but that doesn't apply anymore, because <reasons>.

My boss: "since when? It's always been like this, right?"

Me: since 2017. That's why you were hemorrhaging customers.

I so hate this type of boss. No jury of your peers would convict you.

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


I'm just bringing in money and making side deals and I might let one of the suppliers poach me. Less work and hella more money? Sure.

Finger Prince


Teddy Thunders posted:

I'm just bringing in money and making side deals and I might let one of the suppliers poach me. Less work and hella more money? Sure.

this is the way.

Escape From Noise

Mormon Nailer posted:

I'm just bringing in money and making side deals and I might let one of the suppliers poach me. Less work and hella more money? Sure.

Oh hell yeah

Vernii

Mormon Nailer posted:

I'm just bringing in money and making side deals and I might let one of the suppliers poach me. Less work and hella more money? Sure.

Definitely take this option.

Escape From Noise

My brain feels like mush today after the meeting and also moving paperwork stuff that still isn't resolved.

xcheopis


I shouldn't have to come to work if the temp is going to be over 74*.

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


They're hiring another sales rep at twice what I make and letting them work from home. New guy is 21 and in college still.

I'm done. I'm just, I'm about to lose it completely. I'm literally working through a pandemic selling my rear end off which is not even why I was hired, and I get paid poo poo an hour, and I work full time. With no benefits.

xcheopis


Mormon Nailer posted:

They're hiring another sales rep at twice what I make and letting them work from home. New guy is 21 and in college still.

I'm done. I'm just, I'm about to lose it completely. I'm literally working through a pandemic selling my rear end off which is not even why I was hired, and I get paid poo poo an hour, and I work full time. With no benefits.

Sounds like discrimination. Seriously. Can you get a free consult with an employment lawyer?

With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside

Vernii

Mormon Nailer posted:

They're hiring another sales rep at twice what I make and letting them work from home. New guy is 21 and in college still.

I'm done. I'm just, I'm about to lose it completely. I'm literally working through a pandemic selling my rear end off which is not even why I was hired, and I get paid poo poo an hour, and I work full time. With no benefits.

Just quit. As long you aren't in the middle of nowhere, at minimum you can easily find a job doing the same thing for more money. You already mentioned a supplier is interested in you. Give em a call and see what comes of it.

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


I can't just quit. I like that everyone is giving me advice that I didn't ask for too. Good. Great. Yes. I am aware that it's discrimination, I am aware that I am not valued and I can't just quit right now because reasons that are complicated. But soon. I am so mad.

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


I'm not trying to be contrary but like, if I walk out there's a damned good chance my wife yanks my house away from me. On top of that, I get paid just enough that I can't get any assistance with anything, so. I'm hosed either way.

I'm just going to go also my dick on the competitor's table and tell them they're going to hire me for more money and let me work from home. Barring that I'll retreat into the loving woods and live amongst the wolves, see if I give a flying gently caress anymore.

Ass-penny

Is your wife tied to the company you're working for? Or they just don't want you walking out without an actual job offer on the table? Either way, reading these posts is really helping put my work related problems into perspective. :glomp: I know you're strong enough to power through this.


thank you so much to nesamdoom for the scurry fall sig!

(┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻ #YesNutNovember - add this to your sig if you love and support BYOB's own nut

Randy Travesty

PHANTOM QUEEN


rear end-penny posted:

Is your wife tied to the company you're working for? Or they just don't want you walking out without an actual job offer on the table? Either way, reading these posts is really helping put my work related problems into perspective. :glomp: I know you're strong enough to power through this.

My wife has zip to do with my company. My wife just holds my house in her name as a carrot. It's complicated and I don't want to get into it, she lives on the west coast and works for big Search Engine, high up, and basically this is my consolation prize for being a practice spouse. Things are in slow motion for dissolution because reasons. I get nothing but a place to live and health insurance in the meantime.

I have zero freedom in my life, I have an illness that is overtaking me, and what's left of my sanity is crumbling due to circumstances beyond my control. It's real good.

Ass-penny

:popeye:
Well, for what it's worth, your drunk and high internet strangers are here for you.


thank you so much to nesamdoom for the scurry fall sig!

(┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻ #YesNutNovember - add this to your sig if you love and support BYOB's own nut

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Escape From Noise

:siren:INCOMING BIG OL' POST OF COMPLAINTS!!!!:siren:

It's been a month since I moved and under a month since I started working at my new place and I'm already kind of burnt out. I have already kind of checked out a little. Admittedly I could be doing a better job of some things but I guess it feels kind of pointless. I have managed to get at least proper SOPs put into place, and it seems like the boss is ready to listen on changing to proper fermentation SOPs (5-7 days of fermentation for ales and he wonders why our beers taste off). I got the go-ahead to order new gaskets for all the valves and hose fittings, so that's good. We bought something akin to proper hop bags. So there's that. Progress just feels so slooooow! I know it's only been a month and I'm kind of sidelined with this collarbone injury, but at the same time the changes I made weren't anything earth-shattering. They're just industry standard! We're still using fuckin' cornelius kegs (those soft drink kegs with an inlet and outlet, still sometimes used for things like fruit juice concentrate in bars I think. Popular with home brewers because they can be hand-washed) and bottling from kegs (why is that such a thing here???) Like he has us keg old beer from kegs into bottles even if it's like half a keg. How much profit could you possibly be wringing from that vs. contacting the tax office to let them know that you're going to demo a few liters like wtf? I also think I'm going to start hitting a wall with progress soon as a lot of the changes I think are necessary are going to cost a fair amount and require a fair amount of change.

The brewery itself is just sort of a disaster. They have this 500-600 liter pub brewery system from Slovakia. It's an interesting setup, but it's definitely sort of limited in some ways. There are two vessels, the heated one is the mash and boil kettle, meaning you stew the malt in the hot water in there, then you transfer to an unheated sort of tub looking thing with a false bottom, which is kind of a mesh bottom over the actual bottom of the vessel made with sheets of metal with slits cut in it. The purpose of this is to filter out the sugar water from the malt solids. This is why barley malt is the base for most beers, even wheat beers (which are usually made with, at most 60% wheat malt), because barley malt has hulls. When you mill the malt you get hulls which make a kind of filter bed. You have to recirculate your wort (malty sugar water) from the bottom of the lauter tun so that eventually the hulls settle to the bottom of the grain bed and create a sort of natural filter when you run off the wort (liquid) from the under the false bottom. This unheated tub is the lauter tun/whirlpool. When you have finished wort you usually whirlpool it by pumping from the bottom and pumping it out up against the wall of the vessel creating a whirlpool, then wait for like 15-30 minutes. This makes the solids (trub) left in the liquid to amass in the center of the vessel, and you pump off liquid usually from a side valve that's set slightly higher than the center valve. Some systems will have a separate vessel for each of these steps, but they're pretty expensive, so most smaller systems combine 2 of the processes into some of the vessels. For 2 vessel the most common setup is a mash/lauter tank, meaning you stew your malt and recirculate/run off from the first vessel, transferring it to the second vessel to boil the wort with the hops and whatnot, and also doing the whirlpool in said vessel. Most 3 vessel systems are a mash/boil kettle, a lauter tun, and a whirlpool. This means you stew your malt in the first, transfer the malt and liquid to the second vessel to do the recirculation and runoff back into the first vessel to boil the liquid, while cleaning out the spent grain from the second vessel, and once the boil is finished, sending that to the whirlpool. After the whirlpool you send the hot wort (liquid malt sugar soup) into a heat exchanger which runs the hot wort against plates or pipes that are cooled with cold water either from the plumbing or a cold water tank if that's not enough. What this also means is that, once you're finishing up using the mash kettle you could, theoretically, throw in malt for a second batch. This is a common way to double up a batch of beer, a lot of places have at least a double batch tank, or two, as a way of increasing the volume of their more popular beers, while saving on space and equipment (getting a tank double the size of your single batch tanks is far cheaper than two tanks of the single batch size), it also saves on time and yeast.

OKAY! So the system we have also have has the wort chiller in the jacket of the mash/boil kettle, by means of running cold water through it. It's an interesting set up, and great for a small pub kind of setup, but you can't really do a double batch on it because you'd need to have your wort completely transferred into the tank before you could start to mash in for a second brew. It's also an electronic heating system meaning it takes much longer to heat up than steam or even direct fire, although there's much more temperature control than with direct fire. That's fine, but the owner is trying to push production and run things like a production facility, and without being able to do things like double batches and the like we're just hamstrung.

On top of that about 2/3 of the brewery space is taken up by the larger 500 liter pub system and the four tanks for it. The rest is taken up by a 150 liter kind of home-brew type of pub system with four 150 liter tanks and a 300 liter tank the owner just bought because he got it for cheap. The 150 liter system is basically two tall and narrow commercial stew pots with gasket fittings welded in at the bottom set on top of two large industrial burners with a vent hood over them, with a small home, unheated made mash/lauter tun. One of the pots is the mash/boil kettle and the other serves as the hot water tank. So the owner is taking up valuable space that could be used for more 500 liter tanks with a small pub system when we already aren't that large for I guess a pilot system? But also he advertises heavily to companies that we do contract brewing.

So that's a lot of different problems. Brew days on the larger system take a really long time because we buy pre-milled malt which is too finely milled and it gunks up during the lauter stage, especially if we're making the wheat beer. I told the owner we need a mill so we can set the grist, and he said he's getting one but the head brewer said he's been saying that for a few years so who knows. We also have to start a brew day by filling the mash tun with cold water, heating it up, and then starting. Since it's an electronic system and we start out heating around 400 liters of water that's a long wait. If we had a hot water tank we could heat it up the day before and, while it would cool, it would still be starting out fairly warm. I did this before every brew day at my last job and it was fairly reliable. The owner also won't let us fill and heat up the mash tun the day before a brew day because a mouse or bug might get in it which...I'm pretty sure is a really overblown concern. We use the small 150 liter system as a hot water tank for our sparge (second steeping of malt) which is way undersized for that system, usually you're using about 250-300 liters for this size.

The owner also advertises the brewery heavily for being available to make beers on contract for people and businesses. I think doing contract brews can be really useful to help fill holes in the schedule and whatnot, but you also have to be careful. Take on too much and that quickly becomes your whole thing. Also the businesses we make beers for are just like office places getting beers made for like business retreats or whatever, these aren't like repeat customers like a restaurant or bar asking us to make them a house beer we brew for them every month or two. Also most people don't understand how long beer takes, and the scheduling involved (I don't blame them or anything) so of course they want their beer like next month or something, which means the schedule has to be shifted a lot to accommodate some customer who we'll probably never work with again and end up pushing out a sub-standard product. I had this issue with the owner of one of the previous places I worked and was a large factor in my leaving. The other big issue is that we brew these beers on the smaller pub system because a lot of times these customers only want a fairly small amount, and of course they want bottles, so we are wasting so much beer bottling off a small system and wasting labor and time on the massive bottling runs that could be used elsewhere. We could even keep doing this and just sell them however many bottles from a batch and sell the rest under our own label. It's super common.

We're also bottling in these cornelious kegs, which are great for really small scale pub systems but make no sense if you're trying to make outside sales. We should be using industry standard sanke kegs (standard kegs, if you've ever rented a keg/worked behind a bar). But we don't have a keg washing machine. We don't have the space. We really need to get rid of the smaller system and maybe warehouse it or something so we could make room for a hot water tank and a keg washer, but that's money. I mentioned needing a hot water tank and he's like "That's not possible" so I know I'm going to hit a wall there. I hope he at least goes for the keg thing. We could maybe figure out a way to get them cleaned. Hopefully I can get some changes made but I think my ability to make them is going to run out after a bit. It also just takes forever to make changes because I have to run everything by the owner and he's almost never there, or when he is I'm busy with something else so we have to hash it out at these monthly meetings. I'm also sick of basically just making two beers over and over. It's just mind numbing. Also I'm working a schedule that's going to differ from week to week once my collarbone heals. I hate having split days off and there's no real reason for me to have to work them. I've worked at a much larger brewery and a brewery of similar size that both worked on a set schedule with no issues. The owner keeps talking about how he wants to have a brewery that's running 7 days a week with two shifts each day, which is insane. We're not nearly that size. We're not a quarter of that size!

At least my last company wants me to come back if they get their brewing license. I hope it happens in July like they're saying, but I'm not holding my breath.



Thank you Pot Smoke Pheonnix for this Kickin' Rad sig

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