|
They've also got one of the better voices in the entire game -- I love the Terran units like the Wraiths, Goliaths and Ghosts that are ice-cold professionals in contrast to the rest of the redneck Terran units. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldGZXfQXuLw
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 10:57 |
|
|
I've always found it funny that Wraiths are considered Large units when the giant capital ships that they are meant to take down are also Large. Kinda feels like anything bigger than a dude on a hoverbike is being lumped into the same ridiculous size category.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
That's so we can experience the lovely protracted drama of a wraith and ghost trying to kill each other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
YaketySass posted:OG Kerrigan also looked distinctly gaunter, I legit thought she was supposed to be years older than Raynor: OG Kerrigan has seen some poo poo I mean, in canon she has done some pretty terrible things by the time we meet her on Antiga, for all the people complaining about the Diablo 2 remake artwork making the classes look weary and battleworn, the original portrait of Kerrigan is probably more accurate to the life someone like her has lived compared to the SC2 and SCR portraits Also looking at the two Raynor portraits I am getting serious Sam Worthington vibes, maybe someone on the art team was a huge Avatar fan
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 08:26
|
|
|
Oh man good timing on the LP. I just (re)started playing SC1 campaign again for the n-th time in my life. This time I hope I can get past Slay the Beast, but for now I'm at the last mission of the OG Terran campaign. Also I just completed a small and simple UMS scenario set basically around this time in-game. If there's any interest, (and the OP allows, as there's spoilers for upcoming Zerg units) I could upload this map and link it here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2021 03:07
|
|
|
Lorepost: Who and Where Pt. 1 I thought it might be a good point to do a lorepost for the different people and places we’ve encountered. For this I’m going to be mostly summarizing stuff from the manual. These are mostly things that Blizzard has been massively expanding upon in different books, but… Well, the less said the better. Like I said, I’m mostly doing a “Lore as it was in 98” approach to this LP. Part one of this will be the people we’ve encountered; part two (which will come further down the road) will be the planets we’ve seen. Arcturus Mengsk: Mengsk spent his early adulthood as a Confederate prospector, and despite his family’s general unruliness, Arcturus himself was a good little boy who served the Confederacy faithfully. Or at least he did, right up until the moment the Confederacy murdered his parents and siblings, stuck their heads on pikes, and then nuked his entire homeworld into oblivion. He gathered together the few survivors, formed the Sons of Korhal, and launched a series of terrorist attacks against the Confederacy. A lot of this is stuff we already saw in the Terran backstory, but it does show that Mengsk’s not a freedom fighter, opposing the Confederacy on ideological grounds. He’s out for revenge: he wants to hurt the people that hurt him. Also, fun fact: Mengsk was originally intended to be not the founder and leader of the Sons of Korhal, but an ambassador on their behalf.   Top photo is Mengsk as he appears in the original, non-remastered Starcraft 1. Bottom is Mengsk from the Starcraft Beta. Sarah Kerrigan: Sarah was inducted into the Ghost program as a young child. They used neural processing treatments to limit her potent psychic powers (presumably so she was no threat to them), shaped her into a Confederate assassin, and forced her into “clandestine experiments” which, well, we’ll get to later. Mengsk happened upon the place Confederate scientists were holding her during a raid - once he’d freed her, she was quick to throw in with the Sons of Korhal. As we saw, while she’s Mengsk’s second, she hasn’t entirely left her assassination skills behind her. How did Kerrigan come about? Well, she’s named for figure skater Nancy Kerrigan. Because Nancy Kerrigan had a rivalry with Tonya Harding. And the name Tonya is similar to Tanya. And Tanya was the Token Female Character in Command and Conquer, which Blizzard had a rivalry with. Yeah. Which I love. Not the actual reason itself, but the idea of a company naming a character based off some silly, obscure inside joke among the dev team and then having that character become way more popular than they ever imagined and then getting stuck trying to explain the inside joke decades later. Kerrigan is Starcraft’s Guybrush. Or Minsc. Just about all of the Starcraft characters were thrown together at the last minute, but Kerrigan is particularly ad-hoc in a way that I can’t talk about right now because it’s spoilerific. I’ll explain more when we get there.  Kerrigan as she appeared in the original SC1. Already posted a few times in the thread but I'm including it here too for archive purposes Edmund Duke: Duke’s spent forty years of his life fighting for the Confederacy, and in that time he’s become known both for his by-the-book approach and his keen military mind. He’s a decorated, experienced, and respected general, but unsurprisingly this has also made him prideful and difficult to get along with. In his heart, he has no real ideological commitment to the Confederacy and desires only power. As a Canuck, Duke is what comes to mind when I hear the term “good ol’ boy.” No idea if that’s an accurate use of the term or not. Fun Duke trivia: He was the star of Strat Blaster with Edmund Duke, a Math Blaster-esque game announced by Blizzard as part of an April Fool’s prank.  Duke as he appeared in the original SC1 Jim Raynor:  Concept art for Jim from the SC1 manual Surprisingly enough, the manual’s “backstory” for Jim is actually what we just witnessed in the first few missions: He was a Confederate Marshall but became disillusioned with them and joined the Sons of Korhal. It also has your typical “he’s laid back and sarcastic but is actually a gifted, beloved leader who cares deeply for the cause of freedom” spiel. Of course, Blizzard’s written just a crazy amount of stuff since then to round out his background, but here in SC1 he’s more of a blank slate, kind of the surrogate protagonist accompanying you through the first campaign. That’s actually where he came from, in fact - Raynor was invented because the dev team wanted you to have a buddy. And you know what? It works for me. Our fun Raynor trivia is that he’s based on the character of the same name from the movie Rush, which I haven’t actually seen. He was initially intended to be a space cowboy with more space than cowboy; Starcraft 2 would flip the script on this and make him more cowboy than space. Your mileage might vary on that one.  Raynor as he appeared in the original SC1 Finally, the manual lists everyone's age: Mengsk is 38, Kerrigan is 26, Duke is 53, Raynor is 29. I mostly think this is noteworthy because in their original talking heads everyone looks a good twenty years older than they actually are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
Also, an update: I finally got my computer issues sorted out and was able to record the next few missions, up to where I have the next vote planned, so updates should start coming at a reasonable pace again. Beyond that, this is a Blizzard game and Blizzard has made some pretty big headlines this week (Here's the tip of the iceberg for the uninitiated) so I thought it'd be worth putting out some sort of thread policy on that. First, the official position of this LP is: gently caress Blizzard. The corporation's conduct is horrific and inexcusable. However, there are better places to discuss the issue in general. So I would ask people to keep conversation on the issue more focused on how it pertains to Starcraft 1 in particular (e.g. there's been some conversation in the thread about the Koprulu Sector being kind of a sausagefest and this, uh, certainly sheds more light on that). Just to clarify: I'm not asking people to avoid talking about it, I just don't want the thread to get too off-topic. And it's not like this game exactly wants for stuff to unpack when it comes to sexism. So in short: Discussion about how what we see in this game might have been the byproduct of a culture of sexism at Blizzard: Good. Discussion about the culture of sexism at Blizzard overall: Probably better suited for another thread. I'm also open to negotiation on this and I don't want anyone to feel silenced, so if you disagree, please let me know. EDIT: This is also a very soft policy, like I have no problem with the occasional post about the problems at Blizzard overall, and obviously even if I did there's not actually anything I can do to enforce it, and even if there was I probably wouldn't. I guess I'm just asking people to try not to take the conversation too far afield. JohnKilltrane fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jul 27, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
You know, one thing I always liked about Starcraft is that the Terran marine armour actually looks like it developed from modern space suits. Particularly the helmet, but also the air tanks and the lights. It looks like something designed to keep the wearer alive in hard vacuum, rather than the usual medieval stylings copied from Games Workshop. Still got the huge pauldrons, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 17:15
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:And it's not like this game exactly wants for stuff to unpack when it comes to sexism. Cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to the next campaign for this one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
I ran through all the 1 and 2 campaigns for the first time last year, and started keeping a running tally of "female characters with voiced lines who were not possessed/corrupted/infested at some point" and I think the total was like... three. The random news reporter who spars with Vermillion, Nova, and the second Dark Templar Matriarch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 17:35
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:Lorepost: Who and Where Pt. 1 ... Yeah I had to do a double take on those ages while I was reading them right now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 17:37
|
|
|
Smiling Knight posted:I ran through all the 1 and 2 campaigns for the first time last year, and started keeping a running tally of "female characters with voiced lines who were not possessed/corrupted/infested at some point" and I think the total was like... three. The random news reporter who spars with Vermillion, Nova, and the second Dark Templar Matriarch. November Terra was kidnapped from her family by the Confederacy and brainwashed to become Nova, I say she counts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
Space Kablooey posted:... Yeah I had to do a double take on those ages while I was reading them right now. Duke is the funniest to me. The man looks like he's pushing 80. I guess the stress of life in the Koprulu Sector really takes its toll. Smiling Knight posted:I ran through all the 1 and 2 campaigns for the first time last year, and started keeping a running tally of "female characters with voiced lines who were not possessed/corrupted/infested at some point" and I think the total was like... three. The random news reporter who spars with Vermillion, Nova, and the second Dark Templar Matriarch. Yeah, it's... really not great. SC2 is particularly disappointing. Like even the background extras on your crew in Wings of Liberty is a sausagefest. There's only one woman among them (Annabelle? Clarabelle? Something like that) and all her lines are flirty. I don't know if I'd say SC2 is absolutely worse than SC1, but I'd definitely say it's relatively worse (the industry in 2010 was and continues to be deeply sexist, but I'd say it was on balance less sexist than it was in 98 - progress that Starcraft didn't mirror). Clarste posted:I've always found it funny that Wraiths are considered Large units when the giant capital ships that they are meant to take down are also Large. Kinda feels like anything bigger than a dude on a hoverbike is being lumped into the same ridiculous size category. I know eh? Especially because the Wraith is roughly the same size, both in-game and in-universe, as a Mutalisk, which is a Small unit. I mean, unit sizes were obviously designed with balance rather than fluff in mind but still. GunnerJ posted:Cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to the next campaign for this one. I'm assuming that by "next campaign" you mean Episode 2 of Starcraft and not the Brood War missions or Starcraft 2, but it's a little depressing that your statement could apply to all three.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 19:02
|
|
|
My 'favorite' bit of Blizzard sexism in Starcraft comes from the visual redesign of one Protoss woman in SC2 between campaigns. Blizzard tried to make her look way more human and 'pretty.' https://twitter.com/kissy90530522/status/1288490518083665920
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 19:13
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:I'm assuming that by "next campaign" you mean Episode 2 of Starcraft and not the Brood War missions or Starcraft 2, but it's a little depressing that your statement could apply to all three. The next SC1 campaign, but also, yes 
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 19:20
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:My 'favorite' bit of Blizzard sexism in Starcraft comes from the visual redesign of one Protoss woman in SC2 between campaigns. Blizzard tried to make her look way more human and 'pretty.' Not sure if too spoilery but Selendis' treatment was disappointing at the time and now in this context it's much worse than that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2021 20:34
|
|
|
Space Kablooey posted:Oh man good timing on the LP. I just (re)started playing SC1 campaign again for the n-th time in my life. This time I hope I can get past Slay the Beast, but for now I'm at the last mission of the OG Terran campaign. STB is imo the hardest mission in all of BW, gently caress omega. JohnKilltrane posted:
Huh, woulda pegged Mengsk for 40s-50s, Kerrigan for 20s, Duke for 50s and Raynor for 30s. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jul 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2021 07:10
|
|
|
Acerbatus posted:STB is imo the hardest mission in all of BW, gently caress omega. STB is way harder than Omega. It's pretty crazy. Two opponents acting in tandem is a lot spookier than three opponents acting separately.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2021 19:05
|
|
|
Terran 6: Norad II Today’s update begins with a cinematic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL-5xM5FkC8 It occurs to me that making people watch cinematics is kinda working at crosspurposes with an SSLP, so I’m going to start summarizing cinematics for those who are unwilling or unable to actually watch them. I do still recommend checking them out, though - some of them are pretty cool. In this one, we see a vast Terran ship in orbit.   It’s getting pelted by Mutalisks and other Zerg flying units that we haven’t seen yet.   It starts to go down, falling towards the planet surface.     It appears that the Confederates are in a state of panic about the Antigan revolt. I’m picking up a high number of Confederate transmissions going back and forth between their outposts and their headquarters on Tarsonis. Most of the transmissions are heavily encoded, but wait, here’s something: [distorted and static-y] This is General Duke calling from Alpha Squadron flagship Norad II! We’ve crash-landed and are being hit hard by the Zerg! Request immediate backup from anyone receiving this signal! Repeat, this is a priority one distress call- Zerg? Here? Serves ‘em right. ‘Bout time they get a taste of what it’s like to be in there mixin’ it up. Jim, I want you to move in and save that base. I’m positive I didn’t hear that right. Arcturus, have you lost your mind? Listen, I know Duke’s a cold-hearted bastard, but an entire colony shouldn’t have to suffer for that. Besides, a Confederate general could prove to be a powerful ally. This is an opportunity we cannot miss. I don’t like this at all. I’m not asking you to like it. I’m asking you to do it. Yes, sir. Great. Let’s get this over with.Objectives: Protect Norad II Bring Raynor and two Dropships to Norad II You know, I didn’t plan this, but it works out well that we just did our character background fluff before this. We and Jimmy both already know from firsthand experience that Duke is a dick, but Kerrigan’s backstory gives us an idea of why she might be so opposed to this as well. Anyway, on with the mission.  If we're doin' this, we'd better hurry. That ship won't last long against those Zerg.Once again, we’re starting with a small force and no base. This time, however, we’ve only got a short journey before we find somewhere to camp out. It’s an eventful journey, though, as we get ambushed by Zerg:   And I mean ambushed: every race has a way of going undetected; for us it’s Cloaking, for Zerg it’s the ability to burrow underground. I wasn’t expecting resistance before we hit our base so I walked right into it. Our poor starting Firebat decides he can take a Hydralisk and Zergling on his own.  It doesn’t go well for him. Are you frustrated with my poor micro yet? Well, we made it. Home sweet home.  Note that the buildings here are white, not purple - we’re not rescuing Antigans, we’re commandeering an abandoned Confederate base. As always, touching the Command Centre rescues everything associated with that colour. This includes an Engineering Bay in the red, with a helpful text hint that Terran buildings in the red will slowly burn down (take damage) unless repaired:  Rescuing the Command Centre also reveals our objective:   The ship from the cinematic, the Norad II. It’s a building, rather than a unit. We need to get Jimmy and two Dropships to it before it gets destroyed by the Zerg surrounding it. Fortunately it can be repaired, and we’ve got Bunkers, SCVs, and our new unit there to help us out. Speaking of which…  Well. Well well well. Look at what the Confederates left behind. You know, it’d be nice to have one of them on our side for a change. I’m thinking bigger than that, man. Think we can make some more? Hmm. We’re a little short on manpower for that, but the Antigans might be able to help out. I’ll see if we can get some of their engineers out here.There it is. After two missions of being teased with it, we finally get it ourselves. The Goliath. In keeping with the Wraith’s pattern of “unit concepts that my inner seven-year-old thinks are the coolest things ever,” the Goliath is a bipedal mechanical walker. Also like the Wraith, the Goliath has two weapons: Autocannons that do 12 normal damage (~13 DPS) against ground units, and SAMs that do 20 explosive damage (~22 DPS) against air units. In other words, they’re a well-rounded unit that does from okay to great against almost everything. You can kinda think of them as a super-Marine. What’s the catch? Well, the catch is that they’re incredibly unwieldy. They’re kinda slow, very bulky, and their pathfinding is completely bonkers. A large force of Goliaths will bump into each other, wander off, run back and forth, and generally do just about everything except what you asked them to do. If you want to make use of these guys, prepare to micro. (As for why Goliaths have so much trouble, I’ve got an entire mechanicspost coming dedicated to the topic. Suffice it to say that Starcraft’s pathfinding is an ad-hoc mess held together with spit and prayers and the Goliath in particular has trouble with it. The *really* strange part is that this somehow makes the game better. That might sound like fanboying, grognardism, or both, but you’ll see what I mean when we get to that post). Starting with two SCVs means that it’ll take a while to get our economy going. This is a bit of an issue: the attacks in this mission are considerably more dangerous than what we’ve seen in the past - we’ve crossed a threshold where we’re finally out of the tutorial-ish missions and while the game’s not playing hardball with us yet, it’s also not phoning things in. What’s interesting is that relative to the last time we fought Zerg (mission 3), the attacks aren’t much bigger, and don’t include any new units. The main difference is that this time around, they have their upgrades researched. This can be a problem if we neglect our defenses, so we make sure not to. Listen up, everyone. We don’t know what’s out there but we do know it was enough to bring down the Confederate flagship. I’m establishing a secure perimeter. Those bunkers are in bad shape but they look usable. I want a construction vehicle out there to inspect and fix them up, then I want a squad to each one - three Marines, one Firebat. Keep your eyes open and we’ll get through this.That Bunker arrangement means that we’ll need an Academy, both to get the Firebats and to upgrade our Marines’ range.  Oh, and while we’re on the topic of base defense, here’s a fun thing. You see these Zerglings?  They’re running in to attack that Bunker. There’s a problem, though. They’re doing so from under that tree.  Certain map features (mostly trees) provide cover to anything underneath them. Cover works like being on high ground. This means that the infantry in that Bunker only have a 53% chance of hitting the Zerglings.  I mean, like, the Bunker’s still fine, but it took a lot more damage than it normally would from two Zerglings. With our defenses up and running, our second priority is to get a ComSat Station up and running so we can see what we’re actually dealing with here.  Jim, I’ve got our short-range scanners online. There’s a whole lot of Zerg out there, and I don’t even recognize some of them. We’ll need heavier firepower for this one. Sit tight. Take all the time you need. Maybe the Zerg will even overrun the Norad before we can get there. Wouldn’t that be a shame. Mengsk knows what he’s doing, Jim. Yeah, you said that about the Confederacy, too. Come on, Matt. You know what kind of man Duke is. You’re right. I also know that he’s not the only one down there. Dammit. Huh. That is definitely more Zerg than we’ve seen before. This mission is the first time that we’ll actually be going up against a fully functional Zerg base, so we’ll be encountering all sorts of Zerg stuff that we haven’t seen yet. Unless that stuff is worth highlighting, I’m gonna save introducing it for the Zerg campaign. As it happens, there are two Zerg buildings worth highlighting: their defensive buildings. This tentacle-y looking sucker here is called a Sunken Colony.  It does 40(!) explosive damage to ground units and outranges everything we have now. They've also got Spore Colonies, which we'll see in a second. It’s essentially the Zerg’s Missile Turret - it attacks air units and it’s a Detector. It does 15 normal damage and has a considerable 400 HP. We also have enough intel to map out two possible approaches to this mission, hence the vote. Just to the right of our base, there’s a cliff separating us from Duke:  Those weird sphincter towers are the Spore Colonies. As you can see, this cliff is heavily defended: Tons of Spore Colonies, a handful of Mutalisks, and the occasional Sunken Colony just in case. Also, see those bat-like things? They’re called Scourge. They’re flying suicide bombers that do 110 damage to other air units. They’re also incredibly fast. All of this means that just building Dropships and sending them over is a bad idea. Even if we could somehow dodge the Spore Colonies and Mutalisks with our incredibly slow transports, the Scourge would ruin our day fast. (Note: While I’ve never done or even tried it, I’m 100% sure that with skill and a bit of luck it’s entirely possible to get two Dropships to cross that intact, completing the map in a couple minutes. But where’s the fun in that?) So we could build up a flight of Wraiths, have them clear a landing area and transport a ground force up there to take out all the air defense. That would be the air approach. Instead, people voted for the ground approach, which involves heading north, taking out blue’s base (which we saw in the first scan sweep), then looping around up the ramp and clearing a path to Duke that way. I’m glad the vote went that way because I’ve actually never taken this approach before and it’ll be fun to try it. It also allows our Goliaths to see some more action. The Antigan engineers you requested have arrived. Good. Set them to work in the Armory.A new unit normally means new tech, and this is no exception. The Goliath comes from the Factory, but it also needs another building: the Armory.  The Armory houses four upgrades: Weapons for our Factory units, armour for our Factory units, weapons for our Starport units, and armour for our Starport units. This is a sorely-needed building that will give some more oomph to our heavy metal. It’s also one of the defining aspects of Terrans as a race. See, Terran ends up having two very distinct tech paths. You can build a bunch of Barracks and get an Academy for tech and research Engineering Bay upgrades, or you can build a bunch of Factories and get Machine Shops for tech and research Armory upgrades. Trying to “tech switch” (e.g. phasing out an army of Marines and building an army of Vultures) or mix-and-match is an incredibly expensive and inefficient proposition. You can do it, but it’s gonna set you back a lot - it’ll probably cost you the game, and it’s only worthwhile if not doing it would definitely cost you the game. This is why Terran armies are divided into two compositions: Bio, which is mostly Barracks units, with Starport and sometimes Factory units for support, and Mech, which is mostly Factory units, with Starport and sometimes Barracks units for support. Traditionally, Bio is used against Zerg and Mech is used against Terran and Protoss. That being said, Mech is slowly becoming more popular vs Zerg, and as someone in the thread pointed out, experiments with hyper-advanced AI have demonstrated that Bio is theoretically the strongest composition in all matchups - or at least it would be if any human could ever achieve perfect Marine micro. Anyway, that’s all pertaining to multiplayer. Here in the campaign, we can easily afford to get all the upgrades possible and build ten each of Barracks and Factories and can make mixed armies all day long. But it’s important to note that Terran has a very, very stark tech divide between Barracks and Factory, and if I cared about playing optimally, I’d probably stick to that for these missions, too. (For reference, comparatively Zerg can tech switch very easily, and Protoss… Protoss is weird, man. But we’ll cross those bridges when we come to them. Hell, we haven’t even seen Protoss yet). Oh, right, weren’t we playing a game? So, with our defenses up and running and our approach figured out, it’s time for the next phase: building up an attack force. Obviously we want to take our new unit out for a spin, and since we’ll be getting several Factories and researching Armory upgrades anyway we might as well get some Vultures to accompany them.  Oh, right. This mission has one last curveball to throw at us: Our starting Vespene Geyser doesn’t have a lot of juice in it, and depletes fairly early on in the mission. Unlike mineral patches, geysers that run out can still be mined indefinitely, but each trip will only bring ¼ of what it usually would - 2 vespene per load instead of 8. We’re going to need more than that, so we end up needing to move out earlier than I’d like. Fortunately we’ve got enough banked to build up a decent force:  One stack each of Goliaths and Vultures (well, 11 Vultures and Jimmy). So we head north to knock out blue’s base there and take their geyser for ourselves.     The Sunken Colonies are the major threat here. The Vultures are there to charge in first, absorb damage from the Sunkens, and kill Zerg units (with offensive mining, when applicable). The Goliaths, meanwhile, clear out the Sunkens and knock any air units out of the sky.   Jim, you’re taking heavy fire. You need to get out of there. I’m fine. One direct hit and your bike will go critical. You call that “fine?” I can take care of myself, Matt. drat it. Captain Raynor, as commander I order you to return to base for repairs! Alright, alright. Settle down.So, yeah. I wasn’t paying attention and almost lost the mission right here. Fortunately Raynor is cheap and quick to repair.   Oh, hey, see those green spots on some of my units? Well, here we’re seeing the first Zerg spell in action. It’s called Ensnare and it debuffs a group of units, slowing both their movement and attack speed - basically a reverse Stimpack. We’ll get more into it (sing along if you know the words) when we see it in the Zerg campaign. I will note that while it’s a potentially dangerous spell, for some reason the Starcraft AI is just really not great at handling Zerg spellcasters in particular - it has this weird thing where it likes to fire off Ensnare at the exact moment when it would have the least possible impact. So it’s not going to be much of a concern. Ever. Of course, according to Murphy’s Law of Let’s Plays by saying that I’ve just guaranteed that at some point in a later mission the AI will screw me over with a perfectly-timed Ensnare. Frankly I’m looking forward to it. The destruction continues:  (I'm fond of this one because it's a good shot of the Vulture's canister-like grenades flying to their target)   I take a lot more losses than I’d like, but the good news is that most of them are Vultures - cheap to replace and the reinforcements can zoom up to the front lines. With the base cleared out, we can move in and take possession of that geyser.  Well, eventually. We need to wait for the Zerg Creep (the purple-y stuff on the ground, in case you forgot) to subside before we can build on it.   Yep. Any second now.   Aaaannnnyyyy second...  Okay, now we can take possession of the geyser.  There it is.  This ends up not counting for much since our surviving Goliaths would be enough to finish the mission, but hey, you never know. It does let us top up our Goliath stack and get some Wraiths going, which is nice. This is something that’s a big part of the campaigns from here on out - your starting base generally won’t have enough resources to win the mission, and possible expansion sites will generally be occupied by the AI, so there’s this rhythm of establishing your defenses, building up your forces, taking a new expansion, re-establishing your defenses, building up your forces, etc etc. One comment on my unit composition here: It’s really bad. Between the lack of vespene and the restrictive terrain, Goliaths aren’t a great choice here. With all the Sunkens that you need to take out, Vultures are very much a poor choice here. A Bio composition will do much better on this map - a bunch of Marines and a few Firebats would be more effective, more resource-efficient, and require less micromanaging. I didn’t go that route because, like, you can’t give me the option to build Mechwarriors and expect me not to exercise it. But if I were some kind of square who’d rather have an army that’s effective than an army that’s rad, I’d go Bio. Rebuilt and ready to rock, we move out again, this time to make it to the objective.     These Zerg must be incapable of fear - maybe even any emotion. That’s the only explanation I can think of for why those three Zerglings just charged a column of armed walkers.On our way, we pass another possible expansion site in case we need it (we won’t), guarded by a lone Mutalisk:  This seems like a good opportunity to check out our Goliath's anti-air attack.  Just look at that barrage of missiles flying towards the Mutalisk. Look at it. Of course, the Mutalisk survives the first salvo, because it’s a Small unit so it only takes half damage. But still. Meanwhile, we still need to worry about our defenses a bit.  Blue’s base may be taken out but Orange still has a base out there on the map, and they’re still hitting us.  Fortunately they’re attacking the staging ground for my “Safety Goliaths,” which I’m building so that if I make some catastrophic mistake with my attack force I can send them in to finish the job (why not send them in with the attack force? Because no one wants to deal with micro-ing that many Goliaths. Trust me). This is another pattern that most campaign maps from here on out will see - multiple enemies with different colours. We’re up against two Zerg, Blue and Orange. Taking out Blue’s base halves the amount of attacks we have to deal with, relieving pressure on us, but Orange poses just as much of a threat (or lack thereof) as before. In future missions different colours will often focus on different units, but here they’re both doing the same Zergling-Hydra-Muta blend.  We make it to the base of the cliff between us and Duke and… we have a problem.  There’s two Sunkens up that ramp. Goliaths *hate* ramps. They are so bad at navigating them. Vultures are better but not astonishingly so, and in any case they’ll barely do anything to the Sunkens. So we’ll have our Goliaths blundering up, down, and near the ramp while the Sunkens take free shots at them. Fortunately, it’s a problem with a simple solution. These particular Sunkens are isolated - deadly to our army, but completely helpless against air units. And what do you know, we just happen to have a few Wraiths along for the ride.    Killing the Sunkens leaves us with a nice, safe area for our units to ascend the ramp.  It still takes way longer than it should.   Enemy units are scarce up here, other than Scourge, so my Vultures aren’t of much use.   I plunk down a minefield to deal with the few units that are up here, and check it out!   It killed something! Yup. Seven mines. Killed a singular Zergling. Which two Vultures could have just one-shot. I know what you’re thinking, and yes: This is the single greatest mine hit in the history of Starcraft and Pimpest Plays has already contacted me to be in their 2021 video.     This full force easily handles the remaining colonies up here, clearing the rest of the path to Duke. We could have the Dropships follow the same route our ground units took and win the mission now, but I’m going to clear out the other side so they can take a direct route. I actually don’t know why I did this? It made sense at the time. I do, however, bring the Goliaths guarding Duke up to join in the fun:   Since these cliffs are mostly anti-air defenses, they haven’t a prayer against our Goliaths.      The area is quickly cleared out, and soon...     You’re about the last folks I expected to show up. What’s your angle here, Mengsk? Our angle? I’ll give you an angle, you slimy Confederate piece of - Jim, enough! I’ll handle this. The Confederacy is falling apart, Duke. Its colonies are in open revolt. The Zerg are rampaging unchecked. What would have happened here today if we hadn’t shown up? Your point? I’m giving you a choice. You can return to the Confederacy and lose, or you can join us and help save our entire race from being overrun by the Zerg. I don’t think it’s a difficult decision. Join forces? With you? I’m a general, for God’s sake! A general without an army. I’m offering you a position in my cabinet, not just some backwater post. Don’t test my patience, Edmund. Alright, Mengsk. You’ve got a deal. You’ve made the right choice, General Duke. I can’t believe you’re really going to trust this snake! Don’t worry, Jim. He’s our snake now.Tune in next time for possibly the greatest units in RTS history.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
Bonus footage! Here's a gif of a Goliath trying to join the other Goliaths. It's weirdly adorable. He's like a little lost puppy. https://giant.gfycat.com/PlayfulVapidAlbatross.mp4 Also, two questions: First, I discovered the magic of batch loading and so have been adding more screenshots. Is it too much? Is it... not enough? Do people want more screenshots? Second, in missions like this where you just have to accomplish the objective, I tend to do just that - I'm not an "Always clear the map no matter what" kind of player. Do people want to see me clear the map on missions like this? JohnKilltrane fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Aug 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
Not worth clearing the map unless it triggers something interesting. Some of the map details are fun, for example, and there's extra dialogue in a few places. But otherwise naaaah, no point to wiping out every possible unit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
Map clearing is boring, don't bother if your don't have to tbh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 17:59
|
|
|
eh, save map clearing for missions where there are interesting things that happen. If it's not necessary to complete the mission then save your sanity (for the maps where it IS required)
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 17:59
|
|
|
Speedrunning this map does indeed rely on lucking dropships past the spores and scourge. I think usually done by floating a building ahead to soak damage. The goliath autocannon has a pretty cool sound. Unless you really enjoy clearing maps it's not necessary. Poil fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 18:14
|
|
|
Yeah no map clearing unless it does something fun. Also, the best way to clear that map is to burn down one of the bunkers by the Norad, build a Barracks, then break out of the Norad's crater. A squad of marines absolutely melts the anti-air around the ship.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
Yeah idk how effective Goliaths really are, but they're cool as hell and like the Wraith have a really appealing and crisp voice. That said it took me until Remastered to realize that they're not wearing yellow and green-striped helmets, but are in fact bald dudes with O2 masks. Original: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/a/a2/Goliath_SC1_HeadAnim1.gif Remastered: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/2/22/Goliath_SCR_HeadAnim.gif The fat loving goon from Starcraft II: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/4/4e/Goliath_SC2_Head1.jpg ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Aug 5, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 18:34
|
|
|
On my run, I'm clearing the maps when it's not necessary just because I want to slap the space marine toys together, but it's not exactly fun for an LP IMO.ninjahedgehog posted:Yeah idk how effective Goliaths really are, but they're cool as hell and like the Wraith have a really appealing and crisp voice. Oh I thought it was helmets as well. In remastered I still thought it was a helmet, just more tan and not yellow. About their effectiveness, I thought Goliaths were far more effective when I was a kid. Thinking about it now I probably thought that because I also thought there were cool as heck.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 18:40
|
|
|
ninjahedgehog posted:That said it took me until Remastered to realize that they're not wearing yellow and green-striped helmets, but are in fact bald dudes with O2 masks. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
Phew. I'm grateful that most people seem to share my views on map-clearing. I'll absolutely clear the map when doing so gives some sort of dialogue, but I can only think of one map where that's actually the case, offhand.ninjahedgehog posted:Yeah idk how effective Goliaths really are, but they're cool as hell and like the Wraith have a really appealing and crisp voice. ...I'm honestly just realizing this now haha. Thanks for pointing it out. I thought it was a change SC2 but it turns out the bald man was inside the Goliath all along. Also, I agree on the voice, and I meant to reply to your previous post on voices, too. I like how the further up the tech tree you climb, the cooler the voices sound. "Cooler" probably isn't the right word, but there's a definite sense that Marines and Vultures sound like backwater conscripts whereas Wraiths and Goliaths sound like career soldiers from the core worlds. TheLoquid posted:Also, the best way to clear that map is to burn down one of the bunkers by the Norad, build a Barracks, then break out of the Norad's crater. A squad of marines absolutely melts the anti-air around the ship. I never even thought of doing that but it's a fantastic idea. Space Kablooey posted:About their effectiveness, I thought Goliaths were far more effective when I was a kid. Thinking about it now I probably thought that because I also thought there were cool as heck. Re this (and the other Goliath effectiveness comments), the thing with Goliaths isn't that they're weak, or even weak for their cost. It's that they require such intense micro. They have to be constantly babysat. I'm nowhere near good enough at this game to really make effective use out of Goliaths.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:Also, I agree on the voice, and I meant to reply to your previous post on voices, too. I like how the further up the tech tree you climb, the cooler the voices sound. "Cooler" probably isn't the right word, but there's a definite sense that Marines and Vultures sound like backwater conscripts whereas Wraiths and Goliaths sound like career soldiers from the core worlds.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 20:02
|
|
|
I always had the impression Goliaths were much better at AA then ground attacks. They are a very cool unit tho.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 20:13
|
|
|
I definitely don't think you have to clear the map unless there's something particularly interesting - Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 often have cool hidden stuff in various parts of the maps (easter eggs, interesting fights against neutral monsters, etc), but Starcraft 1 has a lot less of this, so there's no real point to visiting remote parts of the map just to clear maps.Poil posted:Speedrunning this map does indeed rely on lucking dropships past the spores and scourge. I think usually done by floating a building ahead to soak damage. It's arguably more appropriate to the story than actually clearing the map and blasting a wide trail of destruction - the Zerg are supposed to completely outnumber and outgun you and you're just trying to quickly swoop in, save them, and get the gently caress out of there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 20:23
|
|
|
TheGreatEvilKing posted:I always had the impression Goliaths were much better at AA then ground attacks. They are, but aren't as effective against mutalisks or scourge because of unit size/explosive damage. Their targetting against flying enemies always seemed to be less inhibited by their pathing, and they have a significant range advantage vs. air targets than against ground targets. Definitely style over substance kind of unit, but they do have a role against air even if you suck at micro... and my first run at Starcraft was on N64 where you cannot help but suck at micro. Still loved Goliaths.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Fairly sure the next unit we're getting will throw a wrench into that line of reasoning. Haha it sure does. TheGreatEvilKing posted:I always had the impression Goliaths were much better at AA then ground attacks. They are. Their ground attack is okay-ish, their air attack is where they really shine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 20:45
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Fairly sure the next unit we're getting will throw a wrench into that line of reasoning. Goliaths aside, I've always seen the divide for the unit voices as a difference between Army and Air Force (from a layman's perspective). The army is where you go if you don't have a lot of technical skills but have guts and don't mind dying, air force is where you go if you're smart. However I think it is also easy to look at it as technical skills meaning you aren't some backwater hick, so the Goliath pilots sound more professional because piloting a 'mech is a lot more complicated than piloting a conventional vehicle, which would also take the wrench out of the explanation for the upcoming unit too
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
JohnKilltrane posted:Also, I agree on the voice, and I meant to reply to your previous post on voices, too. I like how the further up the tech tree you climb, the cooler the voices sound. "Cooler" probably isn't the right word, but there's a definite sense that Marines and Vultures sound like backwater conscripts whereas Wraiths and Goliaths sound like career soldiers from the core worlds. Yeah you also see this in the ranks, which are otherwise completely aesthetic. The only commissioned officers are Wraiths, Battlecruisers, Valkyries and Medics, all of which are some sort of pilot or have specialized knowledge that in the American military at least typically come with a commission. Dropships meanwhile are WOs, which makes sense as they're the space analogy to helicopter transport pilots that are typically the same.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
Unit Spotlight: Goliath Overview: Goliaths come from the Factory, but we need to have an Armory built. They cost 100 minerals, 50 vespene, and 2 supply, making them considerably cheaper than Wraiths. With 125 HP and base 1 armour, they’re also more durable than our other ground units so far. They’re armed with twin 30mm autocannons with 6 range that do 12 normal damage (~13 DPS) against ground units, and Hellfire Anti-Air Missiles with 5 range which do 20 explosive damage (~21.5 DPS) against air units. Goliaths are the second of four units to have a “double attack:” their missiles (and only their missiles) are actually two simultaneous attacks, each doing 10 damage. Unlike the Firebat’s weird crazy splash shenanigans, this doesn’t do anything cool or wonky, it just means that armour gets applied twice to Goliath air units. Their movement speed is ~4.5 - faster than unstimmed Marines, slower than stimmed Marines. Also, as we saw, their pathfinding is absolutely borked. They’re also notable for being the only unit we’ve seen so far without an active ability (like Stimpack, or Mines, or Cloaking). That’s going to continue to be the case. They get an upgrade: Charon Boosters. It costs 100 each of minerals and vespene, is researched from the Machine Shop, it increases the range of the Hellfire Missiles from 5 to 8, and - shhhhh! - is only added in the expansion so we’re not going to see it for a long time. I’m including it here, long before we see it, just because it’s an integral part of the unit. 8 range makes it tied for second-longest range in the game and is a huge buff to the Goliath’s AA capabilities.  A Goliath as seen in an upcoming cinematic Fluff: The Kel-Morian Combine commissioned a company called LarsCorp to design and build the Goliath for them. I like to think they just marched into LarsCorp offices and said “What’s the raddest thing you’ve got.” Industrial espionage resulted in the plans being leaked to the Confederacy, who began mass production of the walkers. Apparently they proved their worth in what the manual calls “the infamous Kel-Morian Mining Revolts.” Tech Fluff: Nope! Because the upgrade is expansion content I’m not doing the fluff for it here. I’ll do a later post once we hit the expansion with fluff for the new upgrades it adds. Sword and Shield: So there’s a bit of weird overlap here, isn’t there? Goliaths and Wraiths both come at a similar spot on the tech tree and have a similar emphasis on killing air units. Doesn’t one make the other redundant? Well, no. See, because they’re quite a bit cheaper, resource-for-resource Goliaths will often do more damage against air than Wraiths. However, Goliaths are also slow, bulky ground units, which means that they’re very limited in their ability to force engagements with air units - especially here, where their upgrade isn’t available yet. So I think of Goliaths as being the Shield of Terran air combat. Their role is to kind of “bounce” enemy air units off your units, keeping your ground forces safe and forcing enemy air to go look for trouble elsewhere and picking them off if they don’t. Wraiths, on the other hand, are the Sword - their role is to actively seek out, force engagements, and destroy enemy air units, to keep them from ever being a threat again. As a general rule, Goliaths wind up being useful more often. Campaign Usage: Goliaths are a great complement to our next unit, and I’ll probably be building at least a handful of Goliaths on most Terran missions from here on out. In the campaign you fight a lot of mixed forces, so something that can deal with everything is very useful to have along. Goliaths are doubly useful because the AI likes suicide strikes - if their air sees your squad of Goliaths, they won’t go off looking for a softer target, they’ll charge to their deaths. Competitive Usage: I said back in the first unit spotlight that this section is a very general, tentative guide, and maybe nowhere is that more true than with the Goliath. This unit has been majorly rethought in the competitive scene lately so it’s been showing up a lot more. All of that is to say: Take this with even more salt than usual, and while I’m always looking for correction or clarification on any mistakes I make in these, I’m extra looking for it here. Vs Terran: Traditionally, this is the matchup where Goliaths are the most common. Usually they’re deployed in the late game as part of a mech build to protect your forces from some of Terran’s nastier fliers.  v Mong (T) on Fighting Spirit - StarCraft - Brood War REMASTERED 35-35 screenshot.png) Light is pairing Goliaths with two other units we haven’t seen yet - it’s a typical late-game TvT rock-paper-scissors build Vs Zerg: Here is maybe where we’ve seen the most innovation with Goliaths, and it’s part of a broader trend away from Bio and towards Mech builds in this matchup (Bio builds are still more popular). Goliaths have nothing to fear from Mutalisk harassment, and their reasonable ground damage and durability allows them to do fairly well against Zerglings and Hydralisks. They’re a solid unit that can handle a lot of what Zerg has to throw at them. I also feel like we’ve been here before? Use of Goliaths in TvZ kinda feels like it tends to wax and wane sometimes. I don’t know.  v Queen (Z) on Destination - StarCraft - Brood War REMASTERED 10-15 screenshot.png) Flash uses a large force of Goliaths to shut down Mutalisk harassment Vs Protoss: They’re very powerful against an air-heavy Protoss build, but those aren’t extraordinarily common. More often, Goliaths are used to snipe or chase away Protoss’ flying Detector unit to make it harder for Protoss to deal with your Vultures’ minefields. They can also sometimes be used as an alternative to Wraiths to shutdown drops. A bit similar to Marines in this matchup, you’ll often see Terran make Goliaths but you’ll rarely see Terran make a lot of Goliaths. So, to summarize: TvT: A key component of the rock-paper-scissors play that late game TvT tends to devolve into; otherwise not really seen. TvZ: An important but not foundational part of Mech play in this matchup. TvP: Relatively common in small numbers for support. Five Minutes Shorter: The Goliath hero is Alan Schezar, who appears in the bonus campaign. At 550 HP, 4 Armour, 40 ground damage and 60 air damage, he’s a bit of a one-man army. He’s apparently named after a character from an anime called The Vision of Escaflowne. Weaker versions of him appear as generic elite units in the prequel campaign. Trivia: As has already been mentioned in this thread, the Goliath originally had a third attack, a flamethrower. They decided this was too much for one unit so they split the flamethrower into its own unit - and so the Firebat was born. The Goliath was also actually initially designed for Shattered Nations, a scifi Civ-like 4X Blizzard was working on. When that project was cancelled, the unit design was brought into Starcraft. I suspect that this is part of why there's a fair amount of inconsistency between how Goliaths look in the game (the two pictures above look like different units), but in my head I imagine that it's actually because like Mechwarriors every Goliath pilot customizes and alters their mech.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2021 14:40
|
|
|
The most hilarious use of goliaths in ZvT is that one strategy where you rush to factory tech and build two to trick the Z into thinking you're going with a sedate, defensive mech build, while secretly prepping a massive infantry rush. So it has application to bio builds too!
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
I've always thought of a Goliath as a walking Missile Turret. Also there is a particular air-to-ground zerg flier with the exact same range as an upgraded Goliath, and if they have the same upgrades and start shooting at each other at the same, they will both kill each other at the same time. I have always found this hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 10:57 |
|
|
From what I remember, the goliath's ground attack is good for two reasons, it's ground attack weapons are hitscan and takes no travel time, and its the only attack in the game that does full damage to everything.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2021 09:08
|
|