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stab
Feb 12, 2003

To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high
Who has a neighbor in a condo building full of geriatrics who just tested positive for Covid since she couldn't be assed to follow health directives and had her family over every single day and the guy is only one week into dose 1, and just found out she tested for the Kent variant???? And once she found she was positive changed absolutely nothing and was witnesses bringing in her groceries maskless?


<----- This guy. loving ACES.

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JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

I got a booking for a vaccinated person's funeral today. He was younger than I am and got unlucky enough to be a breakthrough case. He's number 400. I'm done for a while on Monday.

How on earth did you find out he's a fatal vaccine breakthrough case? His body should be donated to science. Weird that you would have a one in a million (10 million? 100 million?) case.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020

by Pragmatica
My mother is ranting and raving on Facebook about what an awful experience getting her second shot was: half an hour before anyone waited on her, incompetent tech couldn't process her insurance, having to wait another half hour to get poked despite nobody else waiting for a shot, and then they jammed it in so hard she felt like she got punched. And she already complained about how bad the first shot hit her.

Also, she's upset all the hotels are booked up for Memorial Day because she wanted to go out too.

Strawberry Pyramid fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 8, 2021

Notorious R.I.M.
Jan 27, 2004

up to my ass in alligators

JeffLeonard posted:

How on earth did you find out he's a fatal vaccine breakthrough case? His body should be donated to science. Weird that you would have a one in a million (10 million? 100 million?) case.

cool to see that the bullshit statistics about the vaccines being 99.999% effective based on the ratio of (vaccinated people with disease / vaccinated people) has now cut through to the public consciousness and results in asinine takes like this.

Blitter
Mar 16, 2011

JeffLeonard posted:

How on earth did you find out he's a fatal vaccine breakthrough case? His body should be donated to science. Weird that you would have a one in a million (10 million? 100 million?) case.

So nice to see another rear end in a top hat making someone justify their lived experience.

The vaccine is excellent and good and highly effective and substantially reduces risk.

Sure as gently caress isn't anywhere close to a one in a million chance, as per a recent study from Israel:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00947-8/fulltext posted:

Of the 1113 people aged 16 years and older who died from COVID-19, 715 (64·2%) were unvaccinated and 138 (12·4%) were fully vaccinated.

Why are these types of aggressive and empathy lacking posters always so clueless?

:thunk:

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
It’s slightly more nuanced that that in that the vast majority, if not all, vaccinated people who died were elderly, had underlying conditions, or had caught Covid before the vaccine had chance to kick in.


It’s why it’s super important to not consider yourself vaccinated until your second shot/recommended period of time after a one shot

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

JeffLeonard posted:

How on earth did you find out he's a fatal vaccine breakthrough case? His body should be donated to science. Weird that you would have a one in a million (10 million? 100 million?) case.

I personalize every funeral I officiate and end up talking to the families a lot. The grandmother went on a trump tirade and the parents helped put it together after she got off the zoom call in my confused, polite silence.

He is not that much of a rarity but I hope that they become a hell of a lot less common. His mom said he had his last shot on the 14th of April and died three days ago. I don't know when he got infected. People spill their guts out to clergy members all the time.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

Trip report 27 hours post-Pfizer shot 2. Have a minor headache and feel a tiny bit feverish (a bit hot or cold and a little achy) but my temp is 98.6. It's usually closer to 97.9 so that's just incredibly mild, barely anything at all. Arm is a little sore at the injection site but not bad, feels like a little bruise. Got a pretty good night's sleep and I was very tired when I went to bed. If things stay like this and improve I'll consider myself lucky since that's barely anything. I had pretty much no reaction to Pfizer shot 1 that I could tell so I guess I feel lucky to not have bad side effects.

JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

I personalize every funeral I officiate and end up talking to the families a lot. The grandmother went on a trump tirade and the parents helped put it together after she got off the zoom call in my confused, polite silence.

He is not that much of a rarity but I hope that they become a hell of a lot less common. His mom said he had his last shot on the 14th of April and died three days ago. I don't know when he got infected. People spill their guts out to clergy members all the time.

Thanks. I'm not sure of your age, but I am assuming this fellow is under 40. I'm not sure what the deal is with the other posters quoting me, but under 40, fully vaxxed and dying from Covid is an EXTREME long shot.

JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

cool to see that the bullshit statistics about the vaccines being 99.999% effective based on the ratio of (vaccinated people with disease / vaccinated people) has now cut through to the public consciousness and results in asinine takes like this.

What?

JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

Blitter posted:

So nice to see another rear end in a top hat making someone justify their lived experience.

The vaccine is excellent and good and highly effective and substantially reduces risk.

Sure as gently caress isn't anywhere close to a one in a million chance, as per a recent study from Israel:


Why are these types of aggressive and empathy lacking posters always so clueless?

:thunk:

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or calling me an rear end in a top hat?

Big City Drinkin
Oct 9, 2007

A very good

Fallen Rib
Pfizer 2 knocked me on my rear end. Got it Thursday at 10 am, had a sore arm when I went to bed that night. Then I woke up at 4 am with a 102 degree fever, sweats, chills, aches - the whole works. Luckily the fever dropped sub 100 after ~6 hours, but I was very stiff/sore the rest of yesterday and had a poor appetite. I woke up today feeling great.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

JeffLeonard posted:

Thanks. I'm not sure of your age, but I am assuming this fellow is under 40. I'm not sure what the deal is with the other posters quoting me, but under 40, fully vaxxed and dying from Covid is an EXTREME long shot.

He was in his 20s. I don't really care what the chances are when his parents are crying and telling me about him as a kid and how proud they were of his accomplishments and how they were dreaming of him doing more. It's a common thread among the grieving. I think people are mad at you because the stuff you're saying isn't based on the facts we currently have.


Big City Drinkin posted:

Pfizer 2 knocked me on my rear end. Got it Thursday at 10 am, had a sore arm when I went to bed that night. Then I woke up at 4 am with a 102 degree fever, sweats, chills, aches - the whole works. Luckily the fever dropped sub 100 after ~6 hours, but I was very stiff/sore the rest of yesterday and had a poor appetite. I woke up today feeling great.

Absolutely outstanding.

Spinz
Jan 7, 2020

I ordered luscious new gemstones from India and made new earrings for my SA mart thread

Remember my earrings and art are much better than my posting

New stuff starts towards end of page 3 of the thread

JeffLeonard posted:

Thanks. I'm not sure of your age, but I am assuming this fellow is under 40. I'm not sure what the deal is with the other posters quoting me, but under 40, fully vaxxed and dying from Covid is an EXTREME long shot.

Yes it sure is. Approx 5 thousand have died in the US under 40 since this whole thing began, when there were no vaccinations at all.

I know this because I tried to talk someone into getting vaxed who is late 30s. I was surprised at how low that number was.

Of course I'm totally pro vax and still mask etc

Spinz fucked around with this message at 22:35 on May 8, 2021

Buckwheat Sings
Feb 9, 2005

Spinz posted:

Yes it sure is. Approx 5 thousand have died in the US under 40 since this whole thing began, when there were no vaccinations at all.

I know this because I tried to talk someone into getting vaxed who is late 30s. I was surprised at how low that number was.

Of course I'm totally pro vax and still mask etc

Long term effects are still unknown. Its also scary that the lungs of someone who got covid looks like they took a shotgun blast compared to a smoker. Same with their hearts.

Not to mention the covid haze where people feel like they have a low level version of Alzheimer's.

JeffLeonard
Apr 18, 2003

TV Violence

Buckwheat Sings posted:

Long term effects are still unknown. Its also scary that the lungs of someone who got covid looks like they took a shotgun blast compared to a smoker. Same with their hearts.

Not to mention the covid haze where people feel like they have a low level version of Alzheimer's.

For sure. I'm not a covid denier by any stretch. One of my best friends has permanent heart damage from Covid, similar to damage from a heart attack. But deaths from covid in fully vaccinated young people is almost unheard of.

Akuma
Sep 11, 2001


Indeed. As someone a little under 40 that can't get the vaccine yet I'm not afraid of dying from covid, I'm afraid of the myriad other, more likely things that could cause problems years down the line.

Green Nail Polish
Nov 15, 2020
Breakthrough infection deaths are indeed one in a million. As of April 26, 132 breakthrough infection deaths have been reported to CDC in America.

Fluffy Bunnies, you very likely preceded over the funeral of the youngest fatal breakthrough infection in America, if not the world. Remarkably unfortunate and I'm very sorry you had to experience that unique burden.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



I think the hyperfocus on death rates has always been a mistake, and it is especially a mistake when trying to increase vaccine uptake. The number of possible non-fatal negative outcomes is pretty high and pretty disturbing, and I think applying a little more attention to those could help spur more hesitant people to get their drat shots.

Spinz
Jan 7, 2020

I ordered luscious new gemstones from India and made new earrings for my SA mart thread

Remember my earrings and art are much better than my posting

New stuff starts towards end of page 3 of the thread

Buckwheat Sings posted:

Long term effects are still unknown. Its also scary that the lungs of someone who got covid looks like they took a shotgun blast compared to a smoker. Same with their hearts.

Not to mention the covid haze where people feel like they have a low level version of Alzheimer's.

Absolutely. I have hardly been outside since March 13 of 2020 besides solo exercising, never unmasked etc never to a grocery store, restaurant ANYTHING

yippeekiyaymf
May 16, 2002

You seriously have issues.

Go catch more racoons in a net and step away from the computer.
Around 32 hours after my second Moderna shot.

Shot one gave me a horribly sore arm and light fever. Lasted a couple of days.

Shot two had the arm pain start hours earlier but never intensified. It’s still painful and raising my arm more than halfway hurts but it didn’t cause tears trying to put on a sweatshirt. I did have horrible fatigue starting yesterday afternoon. It continued and included rotating chills and a fever. I could not warm up and then was too hot all afternoon and night. It was the weirdest fatigue - I had no energy to do anything yet was restless at the same time so sleep was minimal. Felt like I was getting a headache for a few hours but nothing came to fruition. Had weird stiffness in my neck that went away, along with a sore throat.

As of now, still have arm pain but nothing compared to the first shot. Fever and chills are gone. I’m tired, but it’s a tired from not sleeping instead of whatever the hell that fatigue and exhaustion was overnight.

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I think the hyperfocus on death rates has always been a mistake, and it is especially a mistake when trying to increase vaccine uptake. The number of possible non-fatal negative outcomes is pretty high and pretty disturbing, and I think applying a little more attention to those could help spur more hesitant people to get their drat shots.

So much this.

A friend's brother (ca 35-ish) is still suffering since April 2020. His brain is pretty OK but fuzzy, so some days he can work from his bed (he's in IT). Physically, he can barely get to the bathroom and back (and then collapse for hours from the strain).

The kicker? His kid of 11 caught the same and is also bedridden since April. He's missed a full year of school. At least the kid recently started showing some signs of recovery, he was able to go outside for an hour and see some friends before he got so tired he had to go back to bed.

My cousin (38) also caught it in April 2020 and is having a version that comes and goes. She's completely out of it for several days, then can be pretty fine for up to a week at a time.

As an almost-40-year-old, I've been aware that the risk of death to me is small, but I don't know that permanent (?) disability is all that much better.

Are there numbers for "long covid" sufferers in the US?

Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 23:04 on May 8, 2021

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

Green Nail Polish posted:

Breakthrough infection deaths are indeed one in a million. As of April 26, 132 breakthrough infection deaths have been reported to CDC in America.

Fluffy Bunnies, you very likely preceded over the funeral of the youngest fatal breakthrough infection in America, if not the world. Remarkably unfortunate and I'm very sorry you had to experience that unique burden.

:cripes: it'd be the right way to finish off my set with this group. I'm out of rotation until at least August after this guy and everyone is very much hoping that we don't have to go back in.


Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Are there numbers for "long covid" sufferers in the US?

if there are, I'd really like to see them for scientific curiosity. To the best of my knowledge, the only covid deaths counted are the ones that directly die while having the virus, not the ones that die months later from complications; in the US anyhow. It's totally possible that I'm wrong, though

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Fluffy Bunnies posted:

if there are, I'd really like to see them for scientific curiosity. To the best of my knowledge, the only covid deaths counted are the ones that directly die while having the virus, not the ones that die months later from complications; in the US anyhow. It's totally possible that I'm wrong, though

"Long covid" refers to people for whom covid becomes a chronic illness, so mortality doesn't really figure into it.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.
Chronic illnesses kill people all the time.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Platystemon posted:

Chronic illnesses kill people all the time.

But that's not what we're talking about here. The whole thread of this discussion is that hyperfocus on mortality rates is bad, so more attention to the non-fatal outcomes of covid is good, which includes cases where it assumes the appearance of a chronic disease. Pointing out that chronic illnesses kill people is just returning to the initial problem of a hyperfocus on mortality.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Strawberry Pyramid posted:

incompetent tech couldn't process her insurance

Whew, dodged that bullet by not being able to afford health insurance

:fsmug:

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

CaptainSarcastic posted:

But that's not what we're talking about here. The whole thread of this discussion is that hyperfocus on mortality rates is bad, so more attention to the non-fatal outcomes of covid is good, which includes cases where it assumes the appearance of a chronic disease. Pointing out that chronic illnesses kill people is just returning to the initial problem of a hyperfocus on mortality.

Okay so when we have about 600,000 dead and Covid is (statistically) sitting on about 10% of average US deaths per day, I don't get why "hyperfocus" on deaths is bad. Dying is bad and we should be trying to avoid it. I dunno why people wouldn't be deeply concerned about so many deaths and a disease that is pretty impressively deadly.

And shouldn't long-term deaths from covid complications count, especially if "long covid" is the long-term version of it? I think that's more my question: are we counting long-term complications from covid/covid damage/long covid as covid or covid-related deaths? or not? And if we're not, why not? People who die from complications due to say, AIDS, tend to get counted in AIDS deaths.

I would very much like the bad dead number to go away completely, but I'm curious and interested in the whys and what lines we're drawing and the whatfors, etc.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Fluffy Bunnies posted:

Okay so when we have about 600,000 dead and Covid is (statistically) sitting on about 10% of average US deaths per day, I don't get why "hyperfocus" on deaths is bad. Dying is bad and we should be trying to avoid it. I dunno why people wouldn't be deeply concerned about so many deaths and a disease that is pretty impressively deadly.

And shouldn't long-term deaths from covid complications count, especially if "long covid" is the long-term version of it? I think that's more my question: are we counting long-term complications from covid/covid damage/long covid as covid or covid-related deaths? or not? And if we're not, why not? People who die from complications due to say, AIDS, tend to get counted in AIDS deaths.

I would very much like the bad dead number to go away completely, but I'm curious and interested in the whys and what lines we're drawing and the whatfors, etc.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I think the hyperfocus on death rates has always been a mistake, and it is especially a mistake when trying to increase vaccine uptake. The number of possible non-fatal negative outcomes is pretty high and pretty disturbing, and I think applying a little more attention to those could help spur more hesitant people to get their drat shots.

The context is trying to encourage vaccination. With death rates and percentages you run into people playing percentages and throwing out big numbers, neither of which are things that humans are good at comprehending. Bringing up the significant chance of non-fatal but serious consequences might get some people to get their shot who might otherwise have just kept coasting along with "I'm young and healthy and won't die if I get it."

Involuntary Sparkle
Aug 12, 2004

Chemo-kitties can have “accidents” too!

Fluffy Bunnies posted:

if there are, I'd really like to see them for scientific curiosity. To the best of my knowledge, the only covid deaths counted are the ones that directly die while having the virus, not the ones that die months later from complications; in the US anyhow. It's totally possible that I'm wrong, though

It's frustrating to me personally because my grandmother died from post-covid complications (it damaged her liver, pancreas, heart, and brain) but because it was 4 months after her diagnosis and she wasn't positive at the time, it wasn't a direct cause of death. I am wondering how many deaths like that there will be?

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something
I must be Diamond Dallas Page, because now I'm DDP: Double Dosed with Phizer!

Also Dirty Dan Phielding, my nom de guerre on the international underground slot-car racing circuit.

Lolie
Jun 4, 2010

AUSGBS Thread Mum

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Are there numbers for "long covid" sufferers in the US?

An Australian study has found it to be 20-30%, and that includes younger people and those who only had mild illness. I've seen overseas estimates of over 50% in those who required hospitalisation.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013



Involuntary Sparkle posted:

It's frustrating to me personally because my grandmother died from post-covid complications (it damaged her liver, pancreas, heart, and brain) but because it was 4 months after her diagnosis and she wasn't positive at the time, it wasn't a direct cause of death. I am wondering how many deaths like that there will be?

At this point situations like that should be caught in the "excess death" calculations, if nowhere else.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Lolie posted:

An Australian study has found it to be 20-30%, and that includes younger people and those who only had mild illness. I've seen overseas estimates of over 50% in those who required hospitalisation.

I noticed that I felt clearer-headed after I got my vaxx shot. I didn't think that I was suffering from any post-Covid stuff but in retrospect I think I still had lingering exhaustion.

pro starcraft loser
Jan 23, 2006

Stand back, this could get messy.

Lolie posted:

An Australian study has found it to be 20-30%, and that includes younger people and those who only had mild illness. I've seen overseas estimates of over 50% in those who required hospitalisation.

Jesus, that's like fallout from a loving nuke.

Lolie
Jun 4, 2010

AUSGBS Thread Mum

Zeroisanumber posted:

I noticed that I felt clearer-headed after I got my vaxx shot. I didn't think that I was suffering from any post-Covid stuff but in retrospect I think I still had lingering exhaustion.

This effect is currently being studied. Obviously the vaccine isn't going to repair damaged organs but there's reason to hope it will help with other long covid symptoms (interestingly, people have reported the improvement as being immediate rather than gradual). If we're really lucky, we may find out more about other post-viral syndromes, too.

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

Developing chronic illness from what's generally a short-lived illness is nothing new, but before covid anyone who went through anything like that was deemed crazy or a liar or a hypochondriac. I hate that so many people are going through what many others already do, I'm one of them and it loving sucks, but maybe hopefully now other cases of mysterious chronic illness after infection might be taken a little more seriously? It would be nice to be believed instead of dismissed. Maybe doctors will finally shut the gently caress up about post-treatment Lyme syndrome or people who ended up in wheelchairs after getting the flu as being a bunch of idiots and wimps and fakers. Actually they probably won't, but a person can dream I suppose.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

JeffLeonard posted:

How on earth did you find out he's a fatal vaccine breakthrough case? His body should be donated to science. Weird that you would have a one in a million (10 million? 100 million?) case.

The odds probably aren't that bad; if you just multiply residual risk of infection (with Pfizer, that's about 10%) by CFR (2%) it's two in a thousand (0.1 * 0.02 = 0.002).

there's going to be strong correlation between those who die of covid-19 despite vaccination and those who would have died of covid-19 anyway, so that person's true risk is not as simple as just multiplying two percentages.

Sir John Falstaff
Apr 13, 2010

QuarkJets posted:

The odds probably aren't that bad; if you just multiply residual risk of infection (with Pfizer, that's about 10%) by CFR (2%) it's two in a thousand (0.1 * 0.02 = 0.002).

there's going to be strong correlation between those who die of covid-19 despite vaccination and those who would have died of covid-19 anyway, so that person's true risk is not as simple as just multiplying two percentages.

But the vaccine not only reduces risk of infection, it also reduces risk of getting severe illness once infected, so that number is meaningless. Not to mention he was comparatively young, which means his risk of death would be significantly lower anyway.

Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 08:15 on May 9, 2021

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TheSlutPit
Dec 26, 2009

The problem with quantifying “long covid” is that it’s currently defined as any persistent symptoms following a negative test having been infected, so for some people it could mean “I felt a bit under the weather for a few weeks after having covid,” for others it could be losing taste/smell for months after infection, for others it could be lifelong chronic illness as a result of the disease. I’ve seen CDC statistics that roughly 10% of people have “long covid” in this context but have yet to see any regarding the severity or chronic nature of their symptoms. Honestly it’s likely we won’t know the relationship for years between covid and long-term health problems, but long covid in the sense of immediate chronic illness following recovery seems pretty uncommon.

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