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mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Yas please

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mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Grandicap posted:

How can you argue with Voodoo if he's the mod?
You know I have a feeling that merk might not have too much trouble finding someone to argue with.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



I really like open setups because it removes a lot of the paranoid theorycrafting about serial killers or survivors or all that dumb stuff and this open setup is the best one. Thanks Voodoo.

Although I will fight you over plurality executions :argh:

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



I will be the toxic vig that gotham city needs

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



I just read the OP and I have no idea how half of this works. It's like playing in one of my own games!

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Am I not allowed to claim town? What kind of game is this?

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Ugh I'm so bad at drafting

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



b-minus1 posted:

Alright so letís start by lunching everyone in order, skipping me of course
I think you said this for real in the last WIFOA game I played.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



I can't figure out whether to be an old judgy mafia man about this stuff or just embrace the chaos of this game.

I'm leaning old and judgy. Don't be Voodoofly from the last WIFOA game. But also that was kind of fun.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



SolusLunes posted:

I will always be true to myself and immediately attempt to dayvig at my first chance ever, y'all just scared
If you're gonna prematurely vig someone at least have it be for a reason and not based on random.org. At least save it for someone who you think is scummy.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



CCKeane posted:

Weird way of saying this, I DON'T LIKE IT.
It seems super early for a CCKeane serious-post. I generally think of you laying low for a few days before starting to make calls. I get the reasoning of your callout, but why such an emphatic thought so early without a vote?

Also as dumb as it was, I do kinda love that the failed vig gives us a real thing that happened to talk about on Day 1.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

Iíd bet anything one of the 1,1s are scum. Iím the only one that went mason. Grandiís ďI have another planĒ seems kinda innocent but also feels way too serious for town Grandi. Merk is null because I donít think heíd ever pick mason.

Toalís a little sus for saying it and then not following through.
So first of all, can we please not reveal the role choices of other players? This is not a good move. I hope you are playing 4D chess and didn't actually choose mason since you are relatively high on the role draft list.

Secondly, this feels forced. This whole thing just reeks of someone who doesn't have a town mentality and is trying to appear to be scumhunting without actually doing it.

##vote Sandwolf

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



ilmucche posted:

isn't a big part of this game figuring out who is what based on draft order and stuff?
For sure there will be a time to do that. Now is not that time.

If I were scum right now I'd be saying "oh cool, now I know that I don't have to worry about Sandwolf being one of the roles that can bust me but there's a good chance that Grandicap or Toalpaz could be"

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Philip J. Fry posted:

Muy interesante. What do y'all have to say for yourselves?
For the love of god please stop trying to get people to provide role information on Day 1. This will not help the town.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

this is contrived. I said in my very first post what Iíd pick, I picked that. Grandiís posts about not picking mason are in this drat thread for everyone to read. So we know Toalpaz isnít a mason, great, they could only be any other possible role now. Real valuable info to the scum.
Be smarter.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

No? First post I told everyone what I was going to pick and I stuck with that. This feels like forced hand-wringing, Iím not even sure you think Iím scum. You think Iím forcing a town mentality early on D1 by bringing a somewhat jokey, somewhat serious point to the attention of thread?
If I put myself in your position, I would be thinking "I have the #6 draft choice, which makes me a contender for a powerful role that can catch scum. I do not want to give the scum any insight into what role I might have." I'm suspicious that you wouldn't have that same thought.

The de facto assumption that one of the 1,1's might be scum seems like a contrived and meaningless effort to show scumhuntery.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

See THIS feels like youíre trying to show a town mentality while not actually scumhunting. Telling everyone to keep their information to themselves isnít always the best play. We should not be massclaiming D1 but youíre acting like anyone revealing any info is automatically anti-town.
IT IS ANTI TOWN ON DAY 1.

Don't reveal role information just for funsies what the gently caress man.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



So this is the last thing I'll say on the topic so I don't completely monopolize this conversation: this is not a normal setup. You providing your role information is a direct hint as to what the people above and below you on the list could have chosen. The players at the top of the draft order are particularly important because they are more likely to be powerful roles. You're not just making a (bad) decision to reveal your own role information, you're also making a (bad) decision to disclose the role information of others.

Before you claimed:

The best information the scum had would lead them to believe that you, Grandicap, Toalpaz, and merk were likely to choose mason and not be a huge threat to the scum. They would feel the most threatened by you. In the #6 draft slot, there is a reasonable chance you could have picked something else. You could have, at the very least, eaten a nightkill that could have hit someone more powerful.

After you claimed:

The best information the scum have would lead them to believe that you are mason and not much of a threat to them. They can focus their nightkill somewhere else. They know that the other 1,1's are not masons and could be a more powerful role.

Sandwolf posted:

this feels like you're upset with me for playing incorrectly, do you actually think I'm scum?
The thing that tips you in the directly of scummy for me is your suggestion that the other 1,1's are scum because they didn't pick mason. Softclaiming to pick mason in the pregame and then going for a more powerful role strikes me as a smart town move and not something at all to be suspicious of.

To be fair, I think I do this with you in every game, but it's the best I got right now.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



CCKeane posted:

I'm going to claim cop, to drive dy. to madness and destruction.
it will work, I'm about 85% there right now

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

Youíre good dy, I see your argument I just donít get how it makes me scum, again, it seems like youíre just unhappy with my play from a practical standpoint.
I can at least rest comfortably with the knowledge that I'm either right about you being scum or right about you playing poorly.

Sandwolf posted:

Also lol if you think the scumteam is gonna put that kind of effort into finding specific power roles in a game where everyone is likely to have a power role.
Uhh, absolutely, if they care at all about the game. Maybe I'm setup-obsessed but if I were scum my #1 priority would be identifying the Party Host and Dramatic Bodyguard. Those are basically minesweeper mines for nightkills and have a very good chance of outing scum. I'd also be very concerned about the Murder Mind and Armorer.

When I was drafting I did a lot of thinking about each role. It was really hard to choose.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



CCKeane posted:

Cop, I'm cop, I have the night action of "investigate", Voodoofly is a liar about that role not being in the game.

literally me irl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqUk28OwHs

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

How does scum knowing one person is a mason and four people arenít masons help them find those roles? Sure they know they donít have to NK me but Iím like 6th on tier. Thereís no way of even knowing if the top draft pickers were scum or town!

Basically all I did was maybe lower my own chances of being NKed and slightly raised that of the other 1,1s, but Iíve hardly helped narrow down who has power roles or which power roles they have. They know no one above me picked Mason E. Great.
Before your claim, you were the 6th most likely person to have a role that could find scum. When deciding who to kill, you would be pretty high on the list. Now you're way down the list and the scum have a better chance of hitting a more powerful town power role.

I don't really know how to make my point any clearer so maybe we should put this discussion to bed for now. It's the same reason it's a bad idea for half of a town to claim "not cop" or something. It only helps the scum. The idea of more of the town doing it scares me.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

Wait wait wait

dy, if Iím scum, how could I be scummy in thread for revealing that info?

If Iím scum, scum already know that info, so sharing it with the town would be anti-scum.

Your own case on me isnít even consistent that Iím scum. Youíre pushing a case on someone that requires them to be town in order to be scummy.
Sandwolf I like you as a person but I'm starting to doubt your capacity to think about stuff like this.

If you were scum, you would reveal that because it doesn't really matter to you. The idea of safeguarding information for the betterment of the town doesn't occur to you because it's not part of your thought process because you don't care about it.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

It only helps the scum if Iím NOT scum, though, lol
I am also trying to caution the rest of the town to stop claiming.

It is not working.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf you are breaking my brain

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



no justice no peace

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



AT-LOW posted:

mason is honestly pretty good in this setup as long as not everyone who has it claims it, if I thought that anyone else might be thinking about it like dy maybe I would have tried harder to get it

anyways while dy is in some ways after my own heart in other ways I just woke up to day 1 and dy ranting about optimal play feels like it was 90% of what I read and I just, it's too early for this, I need peace, I need peace in this thread

##vote dy

Also ugh sorry I knew it would come off like that and it feels gross but also I am right.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



CCKeane posted:

Who cares about Sandwolf or Dy. Gimme those Solus takes.
I think a townie who can't keep it in their pants is equally as likely as a scum pulling a gambit. No alignment read yet for me.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



b-minus1 posted:

This reads like a slip. ďRest of the townĒ implies dy already knows sandwolfís alignment. Which is town. Meaning dy is scum ##vote dy
Come on I'm using "the town" to mean "all of the players in this game." This is stupid.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

it werenít for the fact that these are the cases scum push, cases not based on the person being scum but the person playing ďbadly.Ē
Stop saying that, that's not why I'm voting you.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Since Sandwolf is so keen to discuss, I would love to hear other takes on this post. This is the post that started it all but I haven't really seen anyone else respond to it. Do you think this is a real thought?

Sandwolf posted:

Iíd bet anything one of the 1,1s are scum. Iím the only one that went mason. Grandiís ďI have another planĒ seems kinda innocent but also feels way too serious for town Grandi. Merk is null because I donít think heíd ever pick mason.

Toalís a little sus for saying it and then not following through.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Sandwolf posted:

This is why you think Iím scum, allegedly, but obviously no one believes this because I wasnít even pushing the 1,1s all that seriously. Iím not even voting for any of them and havenít at any point. It was mostly a joke that youíre forced to take seriously otherwise itís too obvious youíre pushing someone you know is town!
What is mostly a joke? Your 1;1 thing? I didn't read it that way.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



AT-LOW posted:

To be more precise, I am refraining from assuming that Solus is scum.
Why though? It's weird that you explored all of these scenarios and he is town in all of them.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



ďJust let it goĒ pff what are you guys my therapist? No, shut up, I donít want to write a letter to my dad.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



AT-LOW posted:

I will note that this snipe of a post, leaping on to a burgeoning suspicion while seemingly not analyzing the post I made at all, is my official Least Favourite Post of the thread

First, Keane says that my post basically sounds like I'm arguing from a position that assumes Solus is town. Then, dy leaps in and tries to agree, but says something fundamentally different: that I explored multiple scenarios, and concluded that Solus was town in each one. But in two of my scenarios, I said that Solus was lying, and I specifically said that I wanted to pressure Solus into cooperating rather than trust that Solus is town. I can see why Keane's vibe reading might be off, because I'm refusing to assume that Solus is scum, but I have a harder time believing that dy would genuinely have misread my post's gameplay implications quite so much, given that dy clearly thinks about gameplay quite a lot.

I'll reread and all, mainly to go over how the dy situation developed and to see where the shift to a "dy and sw are probably both town" perspective I saw expressed happened, because honestly I've remained shaky on both: going hard on people playing objectively antitown is a great way to look town while not having to say anything about people looking subjectively scummy, while I also genuinely can't quite tell how much of Sandwolf's early posting he actually wants people to take seriously since it seemed like he was calling it serious with one breath and jokey with the next (also the toal comment was bad but I was fine with the others)
Cool summary.

I think this guy is scum.

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



merk posted:

I have six posts, two which are votes and one of which is a clear scummy read. These posts total about fifty words.

What else do you want?

I now have seven posts.
I like and support New Chill Merk but can you post some thoughts for me to digest?

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



##vote AT-LOW

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



AT-LOW posted:

but I have a harder time believing that dy would genuinely have misread my post's gameplay implications quite so much, given that dy clearly thinks about gameplay quite a lot.
I'm writing up some notes and was rereading your posts to try to figure out how serious I am in my suspicions of you. If I did misread your post, can you clarify it for me?

Here's the post:

AT-LOW posted:

Under this assumption, we can say that Solus has a role with an unreliable daykill

Solus is therefore either

a) a firing squad
b) a lying faulty vig
c) a lying mystery role with an unreliable daykill

Firing Squad is by far the most likely assumption, so let's go with that

Under this assumption, Solus is a firing squad and all the world knows it

In that case, unless the case is very compelling, why not simply pressure Solus to use the remaining shot attempts in a boring, but pro-town way?

Basically, a proven ?-shot unreliable dayvig is at town's disposal, and I think that makes that vote a lower-priority one

I am not at all compelled by the "evidence" against Solus and have no real interest in wasting the resource that Solus represents based on one chaos move at the start of day 1

I get that you're saying "there's not really anything to suggest that Solus is scum," and I actually agree - he could go either way and we don't really have the information to tell yet. But you laid out three scenarios, only one of which is likely, and in all of which, Solus is town, right? While you were listing unlikely scenarios, why wouldn't you have had one that is like "Solus is pulling a scum gambit?"

mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



.random posted:

I donít get why any of them imply Solus to be town? They just assume Solus will do what we tell him to do during the day or we will lynch him. Which is like, what scum or town would do if they trust the threat. Which I think is actually a good strategy?
Please don't answer on behalf of AT-LOW, I want to understand their thinking specifically, but fair point. I had it my brain that there was some implicit assumption that Solus was town in all of these scenarios... but that's not really in the text anywhere, and I think I misunderstood the actual point of his post.

I'd still like to hear from AT-LOW, but I'm wrong on this one.

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mega dy
Dec 6, 2003



Yeah that makes sense. I def misunderstood, sorry about that. I was a little extra surly yesterday.

New top scum read is Mr Steak. A lot of stream-of-consciousness posting without any real effort to find scum or ask hard questions. His posts seem weirdly guarded.

Phonepostin now so not gonna do a lot of quotes and stuff but I donít know if there is anything specific I could point to anyway.

##vote Mr Steak

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