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of course we go with the vegan society's definition which includes the phrase "as far as is possible and practicable," but if you call yourself a leftist and you're not a vegan you're a massive shitocrite who only selectively cares about the suffering of both human and non-human animals
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May 9, 2021 20:29
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Victory Position posted:it's not even that particularly expensive to be vegan either, you need to have a command of your stove and your cookware, yeah, but it's not that horrible yeah hell if someone eats a lot of pulses a pressure cooker pays for itself in like six months
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May 9, 2021 20:38
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Crazypoops posted:My wife and I started trying to control our diet and lose weight and accidentally became vegan does it give you crazy poops
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May 9, 2021 20:50
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Yossarian-22 posted:people who reduce leftist politics to lifestyle choices are a joke op lifestyle choices are a part of leftist politics
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May 9, 2021 20:51
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Larry Parrish posted:what makes it leftist, dipshit. the part where technically it's less of a drain on resources (but meaningless on the household level) or the part where you can jack yourself off about being better than other people. we got a live one Harald posted:I try to eat low on the food chain, but let's face it, there's a surplus of certain animals only because humans breed them to be consumed
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May 9, 2021 20:53
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i see this thread is a roaring success, so i'm gonna check out for a bit and see how things are going later on
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May 9, 2021 20:55
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Fortaleza posted:Gonna get chickens too. Little flock of happy healthy birds providing fresh eggs all the time the issue with having chickens at home is that the place you buy them from probably culls male chicks. so if you decide to go that route, be sure to know where you're sourcing the chickens from
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May 10, 2021 05:05
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Stoner Sloth posted:so do vegans refuse antivenom if they get bitten by a snake? it would be cool if people would read the definition of veganism that is offered in the op of this very thread and when it comes to kids, be sure to consult a doctor and listen to the doctor when it comes to giving them a vegan diet. but vegans are perfectly capable of living long and healthy lives corgiwizard posted:There are lots of great reasons to be vegan and/or eat mostly plants. I’d love to see statistics on how many people have been successfully shamed into becoming vegan long-term though. Seems to me the best advertisement is living a happy and healthy vegan life and not seeking out conversions. One common side-effect of adopting veganism seems to be (hopefully) short-term amnesia about having not previously been vegan. this book was an important part of my journey baw has issued a correction as of 05:09 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 05:07
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one weird thing that it seems a lot of people do when they find out i'm vegan is to explain to me how they try to eat less meat or whatever without me even asking. once i was grocery shopping with a friend and she was explaining how she's basically vegan even tho she had a bunch of chicken in her cart. a lot of people are insecure about eating meat (i certainly was) and this insecurity can apparently manifest itself in weird ways when theyre hanging out with a vegan. and i think this insecurity is a part of the process that being said, i know several ethical vegans who, when asked, usually say that they dont eat meat because they dont like how it tastes. because they know that if they give the real answer theyre gonna be bombarded with a bunch of silly bad faith nonsense about plants having feelings or whatever
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May 10, 2021 05:55
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i love animals too. im basically vegan in some ways. i once had some really good tofu
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May 10, 2021 06:08
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there is a major issue with buying animals in general because it's capitalism and there is no financial incentive to treat animals well when the goal is to make money from them
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May 10, 2021 06:16
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Dolphin posted:because it would seem pretty hypocritical to own an animal that requires purchasing meat if your philosophy is strictly against it. seems like you could just not own a cat to avoid the issue. the cats would still exist and need to be fed even if they were owned by someone else
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May 10, 2021 07:32
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Dolphin posted:like show me a vegan and I'll show you someone with food security there are also non vegans with food security
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May 10, 2021 07:33
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Dolphin posted:and all animals will die and get eaten by something else even if you don't. without the financial incentive to breed certain animals, those animals wouldn’t exist
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May 10, 2021 07:34
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Dolphin posted:I'm not sure your point here saying that vegans have food security doesn’t really make a point
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May 10, 2021 07:36
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Dolphin posted:so your i ethical issue is quantitative rather than qualitative? it’s a qualitative moral judgement that can be measured quantitatively
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May 10, 2021 07:38
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Dolphin posted:yeah it does. it's a philosophy of convenience. that is because cats are obligate carnivores and die without meat. that being said, most pet food is made from byproducts
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May 10, 2021 07:39
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Dolphin posted:what's the difference between me eating a deer vs it getting eaten alive by a bear? ethically speaking from the individual deer’s perspective? none i suppose. maybe a bullet in the head would be faster
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May 10, 2021 07:40
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Dolphin posted:or you could get a rabbit the cats would still exist and need to eat regardless of whether or not we choose to have them in our houses and of course feral cats are an ecological disaster
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May 10, 2021 07:42
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Dolphin posted:so why shouldn't i eat the deer? ok
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May 10, 2021 07:45
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the correct answer to the feral cat problem is to repurpose the military to be dedicated to catching and spaying/neutering feral cats
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May 10, 2021 07:46
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Dolphin posted:humans are an ecological disaster, do you guys make more of them? i personally will not be doing that
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May 10, 2021 07:49
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thalweg posted:Based on you asking this question, there isn't one. For the average person eating a deer, they are capable of abstract thought and moral reasoning while the bear is not. Hope this helps i figure they were asking from the deer’s perspective, because this answer is pretty obvious edit: poo poo maybe not
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May 10, 2021 07:57
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Kindest Forums User posted:Populations that harmoniously and sustainably raise animals should be encouraged to do so. In fact, we should learn from them to see if their methods could be used to replace destructive western models. while this would be good, afaik if all meat was produced in a sustainable way it would make it prohibitively expensive for a lot of people
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May 10, 2021 09:19
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antipope posted:Luckily you don't need to be stuck on an island to need to eat meat. Its good for you - in fact if you don't you are at risk of various serious maladies! you’re also at risk of various serious maladies if you eat meat
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May 10, 2021 09:45
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antipope posted:There is no, and has never been, any evidence that eating meat is bad for you. We literally evolved to eat meat. We may even have developed the first tools, rocks, to access scavenged bone marrow from the kills of larger dangerous carnivores. turns out that people are always at risk of serious maladies regardless of diet
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May 10, 2021 09:53
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antipope posted:people are at increased risk of almost all chronic diseases caused directly by their poor diet. That it is already and increasingly plant based is lost on vegans and vegeterians. oh ok, you weren’t clear before
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May 10, 2021 10:00
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wanted to make sure that you weren't saying a meat-based diet was some kind of cure-all, which is something i've seen people say so that being said, which chronic diseases are vegans/vegetarians at higher risk for? you said "most" but i think that's pretty silly given that there are literally tens of thousands of chronic conditions and there is no way that there has been research about all of them. anyway of course these conclusions are always tentative, especially given the extreme difficulty of establishing causality in nutrition studies, but there is plenty of research to the contrary. here is one study that references some previous work on the relationship between plant-based diets and various chronic maladies 
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May 10, 2021 10:12
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antipope posted:Its comical the the first actual reference to any sort of evidence to be presented in the thread demonstrates perfectly how important independence is to the scientific method. 7th day Adventists back a study demonstrating the superiority of vegetarianism? Cmon they were used as a cohort, because it is the easiest way to get 96 thousand vegetarians in the US  do you know what a cohort is?
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May 10, 2021 10:21
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96k is an absolute monster of a sample size, btw
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May 10, 2021 10:25
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antipope posted:I know that every experiment worth poo poo has only 1 independent variable. Better not to make it 'are you a member of a bizarre religious sect devoted to promoting vegetarianism'. That might confound your results somewhat. there are multiple independent variables, as you can see from the screenshot that i posted also you seem to believe that the people in a cohort are also the backers of a study, so what you think doesn't really hold a lot of water with me
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May 10, 2021 10:30
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antipope posted:yeah see when you have more than 1 - that means you cannot ascertain causation, only association. You don't seem to understand what epidemiology is. yes that is what regression is, looking for associations while trying to control for other possible causes. it doesn't establish causality and, as i mentioned before, causality is extremely difficult to establish in nutrition that being said, you said this before antipope posted:people are at increased risk of almost all chronic diseases caused directly by their poor diet. That it is already and increasingly plant based is lost on vegans and vegeterians. which, if you understood nutrition studies, you'd understand is a very silly thing to say
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May 10, 2021 10:42
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antipope posted:yeah see when you have more than 1 - that means you cannot ascertain causation, only association. You don't seem to understand what epidemiology is. also uh this is not epidemiology wait a minute have you been loving with me this whole time lil poopendorfer posted:Correlational studies don’t have independent variables. Starting to think you may not know what you’re talking about .... ? pretty sure they're taking the piss
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May 10, 2021 10:44
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hmm
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May 10, 2021 10:46
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antipope posted:I agree, it is worthless evidence. Not sure why you would use it. It is funny that it is obviously fatally flawed by association with a religious sect, one of whose main goals, is the promotion of vegetarianism. the sect was used as a sample, because it was an easy way to get 96,000 vegetarians. neither the authors nor the journal are associated with the sect
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May 10, 2021 10:56
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antipope posted:hold a minute let me quickly sample all 400,000 beef ranchers and ask them if eating meat good they are not asking the sample if eating a vegetarian diet is good, they are taking their plasma, urine and adipose tissue
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May 10, 2021 11:00
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Danann posted:little attention is paid to the obvious counterpoints of pastoralists and South/East Asian integrated rice-aquaculture on that website ...what would you want them to say about these things?
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May 10, 2021 11:05
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i mean that being said, there certainly are a lot of problems in the vegan community and it is very important to critique these problems. but the issue is that non-vegans pointing out those problems is often used as a way to discourage people from adopting a vegan lifestyle, rather than a way to improve the vegan community
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May 10, 2021 11:18
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Flayer posted:Meat is good for you, especially white meat as well as fish like salmon and trout. What's not good for you is pumping the animal full of chemicals and then jamming into a deep fat fryer and eating mainly the fattiest parts or over processing the meat until there is no relationship to the original form. It's a lot harder to gently caress with vegetables and make them as unhealthy as you can make meat and it's a huge misconception that vegetarian or vegan diets are healthier. You can also pack a lot more nutrients and calories into a single mouthful of meat which makes it far easier to over indulge. from the research i've seen this is far from established, and either way i dont think anyone here is making a "veganism is healthier" argument poo poo you could eat nothing but oreos and french fries and it would be vegan
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May 10, 2021 11:49
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market it as the anti-michelle obama diet and sell it to chuds
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May 10, 2021 11:55
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