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Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Chicken Thumbs posted:

I was diagnosed with Asperger's in elementary school, and although they kept me in my regular class for the most part I would be shuffled off to a "special class" for 30 minutes in the middle of the day. Said class was the school's attempt to be progressive and help disabled kids learn social skills, or something along those lines. They clearly had no idea what the gently caress they were doing, and lumped people with Asperger's, ADD, ADHD, neurotypical kids who were slightly rambunctious, kids with physical disabilities, and kids from the actual special ed class all in one room with a teacher who (as far as I know) had only ever taught regular classes. In hindsight it went better than it could have, the teacher was nice and tried their best, but nobody learned a goddamn thing in there and we had to catch up on the 30 minutes of class we missed to be a part of it, and the class was canned after one year. I had no idea what the deal was with that class until way later (because nobody actually bothered to tell me I had Asperger's until I was well into high school for some loving reason :argh:), so I just assumed it was some kind of special treat for smart kids because I had good grades and the special class teacher gave me candy.

Oh boy I felt that. Being diagnosed with Cerebral palsy always made wonder if going to a special school on Saturdays was part of the deal. The place was full of neurodivergent kids like me and one part of the lessons was getting make words out of random letters (think of those wordscramble games.) That special school took me in for a year. It wasn't until high school I found out I had NVLD which has some autistic traits. I honestly wonder if I was misdiagnosed due to being a cis woman. The whole NVLD diagnosis took place in 2000 when I was 7 or so. There wasn't any Autism Spectrum back then IIRC.

Violet_Sky fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 29, 2021

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Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



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Falconier111 posted:

Can I just edit this post into the correct updates?

Also, DelilahFlowers, Violet_Sky, Chicken Thumbs, permission to throw links to your post into the OP? I’m thinking subdividing it into sections if response remains this high.

Go ahead, although I didn't say much that had already been said.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Falconier111 posted:

The fact that three posters in a row from across time and space had such eerily similar experiences is itself kinda notable :v:

My special school wasn't a thing my school did though. It was a thing my parents decided on I think. That special school decided to become an actual school focusing on the neurodivergent.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
Is Misha neurodivergent? I dont recall her disability

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Keldulas posted:

Kids will zero in on ANYTHING that can perceptibly 'other' someone else, especially if it means they avoid being othered themselves. The behavior will crop up, and it takes real diligence to stamp it out. Diligence that is very much lacking in the current school systems.

Its not just about schools. I remember going on the Internet from around age 11 or so. Pretty much every group the internet didn't like was called a (f-slur)

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Quackles posted:

A furry? :v:

(I'm being a deliberate smartass, but the reports I've heard fairly consistently paint the furry community as remarkably open and welcoming. I honestly don't know why they get poo poo from so many people.)

They are a bit too welcoming in regards to pedos and zoophiles perhaps

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Haifisch posted:

Okay, Rin's getting better every update. :allears:
Remember the period of time where the internet was starting to cotton on to the fact that the r word wasn't cool but started subbing in various autism-related terms instead? Took me years to be comfortable being openly autistic online without being afraid that it'd instantly be used to mock or dismiss me.

My first introduction to autism outside of Very Special Episodes was that period of time where every socially awkward nerd claimed to be an aspie. Funny thing was, some of the traits actual Autistic people had seemed to fit me. I asked my mom about getting me tested and she said that I didn't need another label to live life. I thought I was just another "fake aspie" until I saw stories of cis women being misdiagnosed as not autistic when they were younger.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
Apparently one of the reasons I didn't get diagnosed as autistic was that I looked my mom in the eyes when I spoke to her. I can look people in the eyes eventually but it takes years. However sometimes I look people in the eyes anyways because I was "shamed" into it by neurotypicals. TBH I find eye contact rather weird, but societal rules I guess. :shrug:

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

renessia posted:

Kenji... Was a lot funnier at the time. At least to us at a time when it was not common knowledge what "dogwhistles" were, or just how nasty those beliefs could get. Before incels, before Trump, before Gamergate, before this kind of person became a lot more serious. Nobody was equipped to properly understand where views like that came from or what they really meant. He was just to be this awful little gremlin boy, annoying but ultimately harmless. We were very wrong.

At first we'd joke that we predicted the alt-right, but that became a lot less funny before long.

And I really want to reiterate that most of us didn't use 4chan.

Adding to that, as a white person, I didn't really know all that much about systemic racism, feminism and microaggressions until I was an adult in college when Gamergate blew up. A character like Kenji would have flown over my head back then. (I don't think Kenji is racist in game, but he would definitely be the type of person to shout the n-word at black people)

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Cobalt-60 posted:

I'd guess that the desire for self-sufficiency comes from either not wanting to be pitied or from not having (or being able to trust) one's support network. Pity is as toxic in its own way as contempt.

Is there a divide between people who are born disabled and those who become disabled later?

Speaking as person who was born disabled I guess there is. Those who became still have memories of being abled.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Tulip posted:

I mean Hisao apparently has not gone through a pretty minimal PT course to teach him what is enough exercise to make his heart stronger without giving him a heart attack, and the school apparently relies on a student as the extent of their ASL interpretation, which makes me feel like this school is not actually that prepared to help their students!

I think Shizune had an Aide but they were too slow and she got pissed off

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



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ChrisBTY posted:

They came back with Non-Verbal Learning Disorder (which would later be folded into ASD).

Source? I was diagnosed with NVLD as a kid and would like to see if I'm actually autistic. Also am I the only Neurodivergent person that thrived in post-secondary?

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Haifisch posted:

-Autistic adults might as well be invisible to broader society. Discussion of autism, support and accomodations, research, etc all have a terrible habit of focusing exclusively on kids. The internet has helped make us more visible, but that doesn't directly translate to better understanding and support.

Replace this with Cerebral Palsy or any other disability that gets diagnosed in childhood and its the same. To be fair there has been a better effort to understand adults with Cerebral Palsy in recent years but they usually focus on white cis men. (What a surprise.)

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
I struggle with feeling like I have fake Autism and fake Depression. It's not my fault I appear happy/neurotypical passing most days.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

ChrisBTY posted:


As far as my education went.
Grades K-6: I exceled because of advanced verbal development. I seemed to be gifted, at least at first. Things started to slip a little around 5th grade. Forgot my homework a lot though. And was messy af.
Grades 7-8: Cratered. Middle school was loving rough. Almost failed science.
Grades 9-12: Rallied. Slightly. Still really struggled with math and science classes. Would try to get extra help in math. Teachers would be like 'you clearly understand the material, what is going on with your test scores?' (The answer was 'when you give me a problem with 10 steps I will gently caress one of them up because I'm mentally disorganized'). Graduated with a 77 average. Middle of my class.
College: Excelled. Deans list every semester (except the first because of one bad class) until I graduated. A combination of being able to minimize the number of science/math classes I took* and not having to deal with getting stressed out from high school social bullshit anymore. Also I had less of a course load because I graduated in 5 years due to scheduling/beaurocratic gaffs.

Holy poo poo this is almost my experience. :stare: Did you learn to read super early too? I did around age 3.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

ChrisBTY posted:

I can't say for certain. I am reasonably sure it was a good deal before Kindergarten though and I started Kindergarten a little before age 5.
I wish that the article on NVLD I was pointed to 15 years ago was still available online because it explained exactly what happened.
Basically in the early grades the only things that really matter are verbal skills. You can sorta fake the rest. If you talk well that young you will come off as gifted.
The further up the grades go, the harder it is to do that. And on top of that english stops being just about words and starts being about themes and the like. If you don't naturalize information well you will struggle more and more.
Then once you hit puberty the social aspects of school, which you're already struggling with in all likelihood, become even more demanding, more confusing and more stressful.
So if you have, say, untreated NVLD through high school you will likely end up an underachieving headcase with issues with anxiety and depression because you were told you were special young and couldn't live up to it.

and by 'you' I mean 'me'. That was the gist of the article but I sorta improvised at the end

I'm thankful I was treated early but I still have anxiety and depression and my relationships fizzle out. My physical disabilities are pretty severe as well. I'm not good relationship material. :smith:

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Blaziken386 posted:

personally I wouldn't put it past kenji to have purposefully loosened the bolts on the fence beforehand, because he is a bastard. But I have no proof.

He would have blamed the feminist jew cabal for the fence

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Falconier111 posted:

I finally broke down and started searching the transcripts other horrifying poo poo coming out of Kenji’s mouth. Far as I can tell, it’s only women he brings up: no Jews, no black people, no other conspiracy hot buttons I can think of. I know that’s cold comfort at best, but still, at least you probably won’t have to brace yourself for that.

At least he doesn't go full Qanon thats good I guess

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Nidoking posted:

I definitely have problems with emotional regulation, but mainly in the direction of suppressing or ignoring them most of the time. Eventually, they build up so much that I can't keep them in, and I'll break down in some fashion at whatever meaningless stimulus finally put me over the limit. Sometimes, that's just crying for way too long, but it can also be rage that I always feel, in retrospect, I should have been able to control. It also leads to me isolating myself for as long as I can stand to, usually weeks at a time. I've been working on expressing my emotions in a healthier way, but that depends pretty heavily on recognizing them in the first place, and that's a tall order.

Thats been literally me for years. I suppressed my feelings cause I got told that they were weird and as such didn't really matter. One thing I find difficult now as an adult is expressing my emotions and being open to other people. Yes my feelings are my feelings but that was not how I was taught as a kid. I usually pick a socially acceptable response to avoid making people mad or confused.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Dance Officer posted:

I'm not sure what's so valuable about any of my posts in this thread, but you have my permission to throw any of them into the OP.

This.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Nidoking posted:

More often, my problem is that I don't relate well when people make obviously terrible decisions because they feel driven by love, in whatever capacity. Maybe it all works out in the end for them, but I just don't see how I'm supposed to consider someone heroic, interesting, or competent if something like an attractive person makes them stop thinking properly.

This has been me since I was old enough to know what love and sex were. I'm not aro/ace tho

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



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Psycho Lawnmower posted:

Oh yeah, sure! Standing orders to put things up from now on too, is fine as well.

As for this situation, yeah pressing was the right call. If someone isn't aware of chooses to keep up appearances, then paras and the like won't notice anything either until it is too late, and that not only affects the person, it can affect liveihoods. Of course, going to staff would make sense, but they have to dance around things...and press and respond only towards the efforts of the client, unless there is significant harm that could come from it.

This...might be one of those cases, but the language is a bit vague for me to be entirely sure.

I'm actually glad you are an autistic para tbh. As a neurodivergent kid myself, my paras tried but they couldn't understand that assemblies bothered me (noise and routine disruption). In fact I was told to just suck it up and deal with it. (They didn't use those words, but you don't have much choice in things as a kid anyway.) This combined with a bunch of other things lead me to believe that my feelings were weird and didn't actually matter. I still struggle to explain my real feelings to people as an adult.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Psycho Lawnmower posted:

That's rough, and I'm very sorry you had to deal with that. I hope you've found ways to reframe and communicate who you want to say, and intone the emotions you wish to express.

It's nobody fault, really. Just a combination of things that led to things.

Weddings during Covid are rough. I know a family friend who had her wedding in August of last year. (She was pregnant and Catholic) Luckily her giant family were in kinda one big bubble so there was little issue and it was all outdoors. My mom was the photographer and she was the only outsider there.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Falconier111 posted:

... I have got to make the next disability corner about the desexualization of disability.

Oh boy as a disabled woman I got a lot to say on that

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Omobono posted:

The 4chan porn game with a slur as a title should not be making me feel feelings dammit :argh:

I wonder if any of the team behind this were PWD. A lot of stuff in here feels authentic to the PWD experience.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
Oftentimes I struggle with my own identity as a PWD. I'm not even like Emi or Hisao either. I've been disabled since birth. Where does my disability end and the person begin? They kinda don't. My disability is me and so am I. I wish it was that simple really. Society has labelled me a sexless thing rather than an actual living person. I don't even fit in with most AFAB people. I read something on Tumblr (I know.) that said that women get unwanted sexual attention at age 12 or so. That wasn't my life. Hell, the most I got was being asked if I could drive a car. I was 12. Reading that Tumblr post made me struggle with my gender identity. Who was I? Was I that mythical gender no one wanted? Women with disabilities simply don't exist.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
I found this Twitter story about the frustrations of life with a chronic illness. I know its not related to this topic r/n but this person sums up cerebral palsy despite not actually talking about cerebral palsy.

https://twitter.com/atarbuck/status/1415712293166489606

Violet_Sky fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Aug 3, 2021

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
I thought it was a 4chan style joke at first

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

gegi posted:

Even if he hasn't told her, responsible BDSM includes making sure your partner has SOME way to signal 'stop'. You could need to stop for any number of reasons, including that you're just not into it anymore.

Would a teenager necessarily know that? No.

(I have read published fiction which included a brief "okay, I'm going to chain your hands and put a gag in your mouth now, so if you need to signal me, thump your head against the pillow three times" kind of thing before the kinky scene, but those were characters who knew their way around.)

And since HE knows how risky that was Hisao ought to have the sense to talk to her about it later. I have no idea if it's going to come up again or not. It feels like Shizune being pushy is a consistent theme in her route so it would be relevant to actually have a talk about boundaries at some point but I haven't played it and don't know if it happens.

What if Shizune doesnt know about boundaries because nobody bothered to teach her consent outside of No means No? A verbal No at that. Misha wouldnt help either.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2021-11-04/director-masaaki-yuasa-wants-inu-oh-to-be-a-positive-story-about-disability/.179180

This film sounds interesting tbh.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



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Falconier111 posted:

Color me cautiously optimistic. I’m not familiar with his work, but from what I see he’s pretty well positioned to understand things. But he also seems to be neither disabled nor have experience talking about disability, and historically those factors haven’t always played out well. We’re still salting the earth where Music once stood.

I get what you're saying and agree with you, but by that logic you can also put Katawa Shoujo in this category as well. I mean, the game written by non-disabled people (IIRC) has a slur in the title.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe
Tbf, that wave of autism self-diagnoses got me to really question if I was on the spectrum. But I'm still afraid to join any autism communities because I dont have an official diagnosis and people might get mad.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Dance Officer posted:

I don't believe people who tell me they think they're autistic but haven't gotten a test. And I strongly dislike people who tell me that they think someone else they know is autistic, and that's happened to me more than a few times.

Tbf I was labelled with NVLD as a kid by a professional, so I'm neuroatypical in some way. I can mask it better now (maybe not the right word) because I'm an adult/have learned coping skills.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Falconier111 posted:

Nope, drat. Stupid comes from the same source as stunned and originally meant something like punch-drunk, though, so that’s probably solid. E: though it is probably a good idea not to get too caught up in excising language that might be problematic and just focus on slurs. Ask a Native American what they think about white people trying to stamp out “Indian” sometime.

Not First Nations/Native but dont some people reclaim that word? They spell it as NDN though

Violet_Sky fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 11, 2021

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Chicken Thumbs posted:


I'd love to know how much of Hanako's personality and interests were his ideas vs how much was collaboratively developed with the other writers. Alternatively, ask him what he thought about the terrible "Hanako's sex scene was rape" and "gimme the chocolate" memes that would get posted whenever Hanako was mentioned back in the day.

Christ.

I get those were edgelords memeing, but why does pretty much every disabled woman's sexuality in media have to involve rape or some other trauma in some way? (obviously not this) It's like disabled women get a double dose of "sexuality bad and evil".

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

mycelia posted:

I went researching because I remembered hearing about kids being punished in school for using their left hand to write*

My paternal grandfather had that happen to him. his left hand was tied behind his back I believe.

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

HomestarCanter posted:

This is the single most relatable moment of the entire game for me so far.

me too

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



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Ibblebibble posted:

Might just be an age thing, I can't really think of any recent piece of media that has something like that, it's almost all older stuff where kids get teased for glasses.

Yeah, back when I got my glasses in 2007, they were becoming cool. Likewise I did some work for an eyeglass frame company. I wrote down that in the West, glasses were seen as nerdy and uncool. The owners, who were all from China, were surprised by this because in their culture, glasses were seen as wise. (Yes I know about Mao, but the owners seemed to be born after that whole madness.)

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Explopyro posted:

I keep wanting to try applying the lens of "gifted child syndrome" to what's going on with Rin and the way the teachers (especially Nomiya) are treating her; this post has been banging around in my head for at least a week but I've never quite managed to get it to come together, but if I keep putting it off I'll never say anything, so here goes.

"Gifted child syndrome" isn't a formal diagnosis, but it's a phenomenon I've seen crop up in online discussions a lot over the last couple of years. (I think there might be some overlap with some kinds of neurodivergence, too, especially if undiagnosed, though I don't necessarily see it discussed as explicitly a neurodiversity issue.) I'm not entirely clear on how others define it, but I think of it as a set of issues that tend to emerge from the ways children designated as "gifted", "talented", "smart", etc, are treated by the adults and peers in their lives, the sorts of expectations that are set for them, and so forth.

I'll attempt to list off some of the issues (though don't take this as exhaustive, I'm not an expert, and there isn't necessarily wide agreement on everything anyway):

1. Raised expectations. Once you're designated as "gifted" and set a precedent of succeeding effortlessly, people just assume that's going to continue. (And regardless of how hard you work at a thing, that tends to go unacknowledged, because it's just supposed to come naturally and therefore it must have.) This very frequently causes these children to develop a crippling fear of failure, while simultaneously holding themselves to a very high standard, which is a recipe for developing serious anxiety issues.

2. Lack of support. These children are constantly told that what they need (and what they should want) is challenge, and to actively seek that out. Yet when they do actually encounter something they find challenging, they often haven't developed the tools to know how to deal with that. And very often the adults around them react with disappointment rather than support, because "you're gifted, what happened to you?". Actually struggling disappoints the adults' expectations, and often leads to the child being punished (emotionally, if not literally).

3. Constrained/coerced choices. Show enough ability at a thing as a child and people will start making assumptions and pressuring you into doing that as a career. Enough of this, and the child might never realise they have other options. (I pushed myself into an engineering degree basically because I thought it's what I was supposed to do, and didn't start questioning that at all until I had a depressive breakdown in graduate school.) This has knock-on effects, too: many people have said the quickest way to ruin your enjoyment of a hobby is to try turning it into a career. It often doesn't matter how much you like something: once you're doing it because it's work and you have to, you can quickly come to resent it.

Needless to say, this all combines to very often produce early burnout that's difficult to recover from. (And then when that does happen, you're inevitably surrounded by people lamenting your "unfulfilled potential" and blaming you for it.)

I'm sure there are more elements to it that I'm forgetting, but these three are regardless the things I see going on with Rin; I don't normally think about this sort of thing in regards to art (usually it's discussed in the context of academic ability, or maybe music), but it's absolutely the same thing. Assuming that the route is going to address this later in the resolution, I actually really like how it's depicting this, and how clearly we're able to see that Nomiya is mishandling things with her and exacerbating her struggles (despite possibly meaning well and thinking he's mentoring her!).

Yeah I'm pretty sure based on what I've read online that most neurodivergent people were labelled as gifted. This was probably due to the fact that neurodivergence was seen as "a Rainman type thing" and these high-functioning kids didn't behave like that. The schools didn't really know how to deal with them so this happened.

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Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

Ibblebibble posted:

Wouldn't be surprised if most goons had some kinda gifted child syndrome, TBH. I know I did and my experiences were pretty similar to others here. Add that on to generic Asian culture opinions on academics and well, it wasn't all fun and games.

I was never in any gifted programs as such because my school didn't have one. However, me and bunch of kids who were good at reading got to do a literature circle in 3rd grade. I wanted to be in a gifted program so badly as a kid but later on I felt like I dodged a bullet.

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