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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!



Once again I'll be doing a 0 power chicken knife toxx. $10 up to a Max of $250 per run that uses a 0 power Chicken Knife on NED
Please provide a screenshot of the equipment screen and one of the wielder attacking NED

Completed: Red Metal, Serene Dragon, Galick, MagusDraco, Modoh, TheWonderTrickster, Vernatio, Doom Goon x3, Spelling Mitsake, Orange Fluffy Sheep

Jose Valasquez fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 11, 2021

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Dr. Bones posted:

You know what, gently caress it. As a , for every QUADZERKER goon run, I'll throw a buck in for charity. Just post in here (or @ me in the discord) and let me know that you're doing the QUADZERKER challenge, so I can keep track. This, of course, only applies to completed runs (though I won't demand triple-crowning or anything extra. Just beat the game.)

e: For every optional superboss you beat, I'll add +1 dollar to the donation for your run. Triple-crown is three bucks for charity for your run! (I am not counting GBA extra-double-plus superbosses)

Shinryu is doable, but you can't beat Omega with quadzerkers

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

You can, the probability is just incomprehensibly low. A Rune Axe has a 1/200 chance of hitting, quarter's Omega's defense, and might roll above that!

I thought about adding that caveat, but I don't think anyone will actually ever beat Omega with quadzerkers before the heat death of the universe without cheating.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

You don't have to follow gilgabot

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Samuel Clemens posted:

I think even perfect RNG wouldn't make the fight doable. You just can't do enough damage before Wave Cannon kills you.

If I get really bored this year I might try to look up how the battle RNG works to see if I can even pull it off with memory manipulation.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

If I get really bored this year I might try to look up how the battle RNG works to see if I can even pull it off with memory manipulation.
I had some free time tonight so I started looking at this since I can't start a real run yet. So far it looks like it will take more than lucky hits, wave cannon will hit for 4999 each time at 99 and atomic ray only heals for ~3k, with those numbers even the optimal scenario goes

code:
Atomic Ray   (9999HP)
Wave Cannon  (4999HP)
Atomic Ray   (7999HP)
Wave Cannon  (2999HP)
Missed attacks
Atomic Ray   (5999HP)
Wave Cannon  ( 999HP)
Atomic Ray   (3999HP)
Wave Cannon  (   0HP)
Even ignoring Sap that fourth wave cannon will wipe you out unless you have another way to heal or have less max hp. Might have to try the 3 zombies with death sickles for healing and 1 non-zombie with Rune Axe and Bone Mail. Alternatively it could be attempted at a lower level so that I've got <6000 HP so Atomic Ray heals for more than wave cannon but I'd need to look at the formulas to see how much that would hurt damage and hit%.

I've found the addresses in memory that seem to affect hit/miss RNG so I think it should just be a matter of iterating through to find a combo that lets my Rune Axe wielder hit, but I haven't figured out how to manipulate which attacks omega does yet, which is gonna be necessary to line up the atomic rays

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Samuel Clemens posted:

Does equipping a Bone Mail in combination with a Flame Shield double the amount of healing you receive from Atomic Ray? If so, that would make it a lot easier.

I don't think it stacks, but either way I had the flame shield and bone armor on butts already when I was doing my tests

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!


I made some more progress here. I haven't determined exactly how the RNG works for determining hits vs misses, but the question I'm really trying to answer is "if the RNG lined up perfectly could you win" so I've broadened the range of things I'll look at.

I reduced omega's evade% down to 0 so that my rune axe wielder always hits, the other 3 don't have weapons that can harm omega and hitting omega for 0 doesn't trigger any counterattacks, and it doesn't look like evade% has any effect on damage if you hit, so this is the equivalent of getting crazy good RNG on your hits.

I also edited Omega's AI script to get the attacks I want. Any place that he would normally choose between 3 options and one of those options is Atomic Ray I replaced the other options with Atomic Ray.

With those change in I can hit the optimal scenario from my previous post consistently, and with zombie death sicklers occasionally fully healing me I've gotten Omega down as far as about 25000HP which is half way. I haven't been able to figure out how to get the zombies to target butts more often or how to manipulate the death proc, so there is still a lot of trial and error here, but I think it's doable.

As to the question of whether it would ever actually happen in the real world, my understanding of the battle RNG (which is spotty at best, there's not a ton of info out there on it) is that there are two 8 bit numbers that are initialized at the beginning of each battle, they increment at different points, alternating which one increments each frame in the battle and in a non-quadzerker battle there could be a huge variety of outcomes, if you select a command one frame later you've got a different random number being used. With quadzerkers the battle is on a track that can't be manipulated. It will play out exactly the same way each time given the same initial state, so if it is accurate that those two 8 bit numbers determine all of the RNG then there are only 255*255=65,025 possible versions of a quadzerker battle and given the amount of things that need to go your way I don't think that will be nearly enough versions for everything to go exactly right.

Once I've removed enough RNG to actually defeat him I'll try to set up a script that iterates through all 65,025 possibilities and see if any of them result in victory. That will take a while to run though

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Samuel Clemens posted:

I want to believe it's possible, but as you say, 65,025 outcomes sounds way too low considering how much has to go in your favour.

You're doing God's Gilgamesh's work in any case.

Something I hadn't considered is that different equipment/stats could change the RNG as well, if someone is slightly faster or slower they'll be hitting the RNG counters at a different point, so I think the best I can do is say "this specific setup will never win".

If I can get the 65k outcomes running in a reasonable amount of time I'll try a few different setups, but according to https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/snes/588331-final-fantasy-v/faqs/30040 hitting with the rune axe is about 1/23 chance and it takes at least 10 hits to kill Omega that's a 0.0000000000034% chance even ignoring the other things that have to go right.

I did notice after changing Omega's evasion to 0 that the Titan axe can also hurt him if it hits, if that can happen in the unedited game it would let me have up to 3 damage dealers. Going into the sealed temple to get earthbreakers is also an option although I don't know if quadzerkers could pull that off even allowing for a switch to beastmaster/thief for the parts that require them

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Progress!



Here are the caveats for this kill:
  • Whenever Omega would normally choose between Atomic Ray and two other spells he always chooses Atomic Ray
  • Whenever Omega would normally choose between Wave Cannon and Delta or Blaster he chooses Delta or Blaster
  • Whenever Omega would normally choose between Rainbow Wind, Earthquake, or Maelstrom he chooses Rainbow Wind
  • Omega's evade% was dropped to 0
  • The Rune Axe hit% was raised to 100
  • The Death Sickle hit% was raised to 100 and the proc rate was changed from 33% to 100%
This simulates "perfect RNG" for those things, and even then I had to rewind and fiddle with the two RNG counters between some attacks to get Lenna to hit Butz with the death sickle to heal him.

I'm running the 65k variations on this modified version of the ROM to see if a kill ever happens, it looks promising, after 1192 variations Omega has gotten down as low as 3366 HP, just need one more good hit. This is mostly just to make sure my script is working properly, once it's finished I'll load a clean ROM I'm going to modify my setup a bit and see if I ever get more than a single hit in a "fair" fight.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Samuel Clemens posted:

I assume all of Omega's counter attacks are manipulated into being either Rocket Punch or Encircle and then missing. Or how did you deal with those?

I didn't mess with the counters except for rewinding and messing with the RNG if they killed me, at 99 Encircle misses quite often anyway. Rocket Punch and Mustard Bomb are annoying, but 50% of the time they hit Lenna anyway. In retrospect it would have been easier with the other two as zombies too to increase my chances of them hitting Butz with the death sickle and eating counter attacks

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I let the clean ROM run over night with the same party setup just to see what happened. In 18,413 attempts the lowest I've gotten Omega is 47,634

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I decided to set up a separate run with Earthbreakers since you can theoretically get 4 of them and they hit harder. When it hits Omega it can do 9999 so you only need 6 hits instead of 10+, it has an 80% hit rate instead of a 90% hit rate like the rune axe, but it still improves the chance to 1/244,140,625 instead of 17/500,000,000,000,000 because you need fewer hits which is a huge improvement and almost looks doable.

Theoretically if I try every RNG setup for 3,725 different setups there's a good chance of everything lining up, and each attempt takes only about 5 seconds so it could finish sometime in the next 40-50 years

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

My current quadzerker omega setup is Butz and Krile with Earthbreakers, Bone Mail, and Flame Shields, Lenna and Faris zombied with Death Sickles.

In about 22,000 iterations the lowest I've gotten Omega is 25,817 which is honestly better than I expected, more than half his HP gone 1/3rd of the way though my first real attempt. I'm still skeptical that it will happen, but it looks closer to possible than I expected

I think my next setup will be everyone wielding Earthbreakers and just see if I can rush him down before everyone dies

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Doom Goon posted:

I think "Can't Run!" can be used for manipulating RNG but I don't remember if pausing does. I guess you could on non-SNES versions but you'd have to be psychic/reading values so it'd just be more randomness on a script w/o the benefits of the SNES version.

Pausing doesn't seem to, but I haven't tried running. I think it should manipulate it in fights where you can run since it needs to use a RNG value, I'll try to confirm if it does when you can't run.

So far my 4 Earthbreaker setup is about 1/3 of the way through, lowest I've gotten Omega with this one is 27,999 which is worse than the 2 Earthbreaker 2 Zombie setup despite the fact it seems like I get more swings in with this setup.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

Pausing doesn't seem to, but I haven't tried running. I think it should manipulate it in fights where you can run since it needs to use a RNG value, I'll try to confirm if it does when you can't run.

So far my 4 Earthbreaker setup is about 1/3 of the way through, lowest I've gotten Omega with this one is 27,999 which is worse than the 2 Earthbreaker 2 Zombie setup despite the fact it seems like I get more swings in with this setup.

"Can't Run!" adds extra frames but the RNG counters don't increment during them.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

So far my 4 Earthbreaker setup is about 1/3 of the way through, lowest I've gotten Omega with this one is 27,999 which is worse than the 2 Earthbreaker 2 Zombie setup despite the fact it seems like I get more swings in with this setup.
This setup finished, still didn't make any more progress though. But I had a dream last night that I was checking in on the progress and just happened to turn on my monitor on the run that killed Omega, so that's almost the same.

I've been messing around with no$gba's debugger to understand what's actually happening during the fight but it is slow going because a lot of unrelated stuff happens during the fight, but if I could figure out exactly which RNG values for each character result in a hit maybe that would help? If Omega and the party have a constant speed and I know which RNG values each character would need to land a hit it may be something where I can figure out optimal values without running through them all. That is very ambitious though considering I haven't really looked at assembly since college

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

This setup finished, still didn't make any more progress though. But I had a dream last night that I was checking in on the progress and just happened to turn on my monitor on the run that killed Omega, so that's almost the same.

I've been messing around with no$gba's debugger to understand what's actually happening during the fight but it is slow going because a lot of unrelated stuff happens during the fight, but if I could figure out exactly which RNG values for each character result in a hit maybe that would help? If Omega and the party have a constant speed and I know which RNG values each character would need to land a hit it may be something where I can figure out optimal values without running through them all. That is very ambitious though considering I haven't really looked at assembly since college

I can now manipulate what Omega is going to do for each of its RNG attacks, that was as simple as finding the right frame for when the game decides which attack is used and running through all the RNG options. Only one of the two RNG counters contributes to that and it is consistent throughout the fight. If I could eliminate the 4 player characters I could tell you exactly what Omega is going to do for each attack just based on the initial RNG seed.

The player attacks are a bit more complicated. The algorithms docs say that first there's a roll 0 to 99 to determine if the enemy evades, then there's another 0 to 99 roll to determine if your attack hits, followed by some more rolls for damage. It isn't clear how that's actual implemented, but it isn't by using the RNG counter separately for each value. A simplified truth table for what's happening is
code:
RNG1  RNG2  Hit/Miss
0     0     Miss
0     1     Hit
1     0     Hit
1     1     Miss
0,1 hitting implies that 0 would be a hit on Omega's evade% and 1 would be a hit on Butz's hit% and 1,0 hitting implies that 1 would be a hit on Omega's evade% and 0 would be a hit on Butz's hit%

So if they are two independent rolls then 0,0 and 1,1 should hit as well, but that's not the case.

Since it isn't the case, I mapped out all 65536 combinations for one of Butz's attacks and then mapped them out again for another of his attacks. Unfortunately, it wasn't as simple as Omega's attacks and the two sets of attacks didn't match up. I'm not sure whether I started the script on a different frame or if there is some other source of RNG here, but if I can just figure out this last bit of the RNG I think I could tell you exactly which attacks will happen and whether they hit given initial RNG value.


Unrelated fun fact that I've discovered: If you are paralyzed, asleep, or stopped your ATB counter doesn't change, but if you are stoned your ATB counter still changes but your turn is skipped.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

girl dick energy posted:

I'm sorry, it's what

Turning it on and off is manually controlled, he's not sitting there sending people their jobs 24/7

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Lets gently caress Bro posted:

edit: I was wondering something. I haven't played FF5 in a really long time (like, since ZSNES times) so i don't know if this would even be necessary. But is it acceptable to find out all 4 of your crystal jobs from Gilgabot right at the start so I can start planning out my party build, or is that cheating? I am playing just normal #reg

I do, but honestly I don't think it's ever changed my gameplay at all. It just tells me immediately if it is a triple crown or not

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

girl dick energy posted:

NED's final levels 86, 83, 81, and 67.

That's some complicated Death By Math. You prooobably want to plan the full run out ahead of time.

and treedeath is 77

This is starting to sound like my kind of challenge

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Doom Goon posted:

There was a Goblin Punch boss toxx last year by Arrrthritis, I'm surprised it wasn't more popular as it was one of my favorite things like ever. I filled one of the pages with webms including crit kills on Neo Exdeath and Omega.

I thought this sounded familiar but I forgot how impressive it was

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Swastikatzen posted:

Just waiting to get my first job assigned, so I'm grinding in the wind tower. Up to level 10 with a decent chunk of gil, 12 elixirs and enough leather shoes to shoe all the children in a 3rd world nation.

You can unlock jobs (and do everything else) on the website and not have to deal with waiting around on the terrible Twitter integration to work

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

30.5 Days posted:


I don't know anything about final fantasy v, so I need to know what makes the BEST TEAM. For everyone telling me why their team is the BEST, I will donate $10, up to $250. To be clear, I know absolutely nothing about final fantasy V, and we are operating on the honor system, so definitely don't make anything up to get kids the surgery they need!

Berserker/Berserker/Berserker/Berserker is the BEST TEAM. You don't have to worry about things like pushing buttons during fights, you can just put the controller down and get a drink while your party does all the work for you.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Grizzled Patriarch posted:

Anyone got some tips on killing the Liquid Flame with Thief / Berserker combo? This thing hits like a truck and I cant keep up with healing and outdamage its self heal at the same time.

If you don't attack it while it's in tornado form it'll use up all its MP pretty quickly and won't be able to keep healing.

I'd recommend going in with your berserker(s) dead, let it run out of healing MP, then raise the berserker(s)

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Serene Dragon posted:

I did an upgrade run that was thief/red/beast/summon and that seemed like the perfect run for 0 power chicken knifing





Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!


Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Second run down, another triple crown in the books. Party was Ranger/Thief/Summoner/Bard, it was hand picked for this toxx:

DalaranJ posted:

Okay, here's a more radical that I'm going to add on top of my last one.
Number Go Up
Recommended: Thief, but not Samurai
Complete the game without spending any money (which includes using !cointoss).

https://twitter.com/SAMarioMaker/status/1402681856152248324
Animals is really good early, Nightingale almost entirely eliminates the need to use inns or tents until world 3. That eliminated almost all of the grinding until world 3 when I needed a bunch of levels and items to get the triple crown.

The most annoying was getting 4 sets of Hermes sandals, they are a drop from a rare enemy in Phoenix Tower.

Also decided to go ahead and do this:

Rosalie_A posted:

-Samurai without using !Zeninage.
-Chemist without using !Mix.
-Ranger without using !Rapid Fire (the menu command. Hayate Bow is fine).
-Red Mage without using !Dualcast.
-A write-in of your choice where a defining or powerful ability for the job is left unused. I just mention those four above because you're not defaulting to a bad Freelancer if you hold back. I'll accept any good faith effort on this, in case you want to do a Bard without !Sing or something for whatever reason.
I didn't use Rapid Fire for this run, Ranger was primarily around for healing and by the time Nightingale wasn't keeping up I had my bard and was able to just lock down almost anything anyway, so it wasn't too painful to just let the Ranger do other stuff

Few others I did along the way

nrook posted:



Legendary Weapon Charity Sale!

In order to raise money for charity, let's all sell the legendary weapons! I'll be donating $0.10 for each of the 12 legendary weapons sold.

I'm sure Omniscient will be glad for the extra company.
I sold 9 out of 12


Koobes posted:



for every boss beaten while Lenna is poisoned, I'll donate $0.10, up to a max of $100. How she gets poisoned is up to you.
Freebie

Arrrthritis posted:


For NED, I'll be donating $2 for every downed party member when Neo Ex-Death is defeated. (i.e. if Butz is the only party member standing when NED is defeated, I'll donate $6. Or if you have two members standing I'll donate $4, or $2 if you have three party members standing).
Toxx cap: $100


Krile actually went down during Treedeath but I ran out of Phoenix Downs so I just left her

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Vernatio posted:

https://imgur.com/8F1ptDf

https://imgur.com/wx67F0R

The second screenshot is after I got sick of doing the void at normal speed on my 3DS, if that's not okay I can redo and reupload!

Good enough for me

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I can't let TheWonderTrickster have all the fun doing stupid stuff

ultrafilter posted:

It's time, but I'm going to do something different this year. Everyone loves quadzerks, but how about quad geomancers or quad red mages? I'll throw in $10 per regular job that someone does a quad run of, and $20 for Freelancer/Mime/Gladiator/Oracle/Cannoneer. Some of those runs will be pretty miserable, but it's for a good cause, and let's face it: thread regulars have done worse.

e: No balance patches or randomizers, please. The point of this is to have the vanilla experience.
You forgot one job... Necromancer. The forgotten class that can't even be used in an official fiesta run. I decided to do Quadnecro.

Overall, it's a busted class. In world 1 Oath demolishes everything pretty well early, then you can break rods for everything else, then in World 2 once you start getting Dark Arts it goes from demolishing everything pretty well to obliterating almost everything in your way. For those who haven't played with Necromancer before (almost everyone I'm betting), Dark Arts are like Blue Magic spells that you get for killing certain enemies. Since you aren't supposed to be able to unlock Necromancer until you've already beaten the "gently caress off why are you even here this place sucks" Sealed Temple dungeon all of the Dark Arts enemies are World 2 or later, most being World 3, several being Sealed Temple exclusive enemies.

The other interesting gimmick for Necromancer is that you are innately Undead, so you can't heal using items in battle (you can out of battle though). One of the Dark Arts spells is a Drain that heals you, but it isn't very strong when you actually need it. Instant death spells will also heal you to full. Poison does NOT heal you and you aren't immune to other status effects, so it's mostly just the annoying parts of being Undead. The one exception they give you is that Phoenix Downs bring you back to life in battle. Otherwise some of this would have been impossible.

Hellwind is one of the first Dark Arts you can pick up from Objet d'Art in the Bal basement. It is a magic wind attack that hits all targets with a 190 power, so it is a more powerful Syldra for 38mp. Just like Syldra it is boosted by the Air Knife, and it is the bread and butter of a Quadnecro run.

NED was pretty easy to be honest, just burned him down with Hellwind


Omega was going to be tough, the Chaos Drive (Lightning) Dark Art spell came from the Sealed Temple, the only other thing that I had that could hurt him was Dark Flare which did about 1500 damage. So... off to the Sealed Temple I went.

The Sealed Temple is a pain in the rear end, it's impossible to complete without a Beastmaster and Thief, the bosses are all difficult, it's not a ton of fun when you are limited to one class. Luckily, the enemy I needed wasn't too far in, so I made a quick dip in and out and then back to the void... only to find that at my current levels (50ish) it was only doing about 3k... Time to grind.

The sealed temple is a pain in the rear end, but it has great exp, so I ended up going through most of it anyway just to keep the grind from being too boring. I flipped to Beastmaster and Thief just long enough to get past the blocking points. Hellwind was still ripping through most stuff. Like TheWonderTrickster, I used an 8x exp ROM to speed up the grind to 99 (although NED was killed completely legitimately). The best room I found was the room that has a bunch of Omegas wondering around, so when I hit 99 I decided not to bother going back out and I just killed one of those Omegas instead



Even at 99 this was tricky. Chaos Drive was hitting for about 7k, but even then you've got to deal with Wave Cannon and no healing. I ended up sticking the Assassin's Dagger on Butz because he was the only one without a Gold Hairpin and fishing for instant death procs to heal people up. There was a lot of save state abuse, but I eventually made it through.

Shinryu was comparatively easy. It was mostly annoying because I went back to the Void to do it. I berserked him with the Wonder Rod and then just mowed him down with Hellwind.



That was actually the last thing I did, first I did the unthinkable.

I killed Chaos Enuo

Enuo is essentially Treedeath and NED on steroids. The first phase has Enuo and two non-targetable hands that give him 3 attacks per turn. One of the hands casts Grand Cross and Giga Flare, the other casts a ton of status effect spells to either buff Enuo or debuff you. Enuo himself casts high level spells like Firaga, Meteo, Flare, etc.

On the bright side, Enuo in phase 1 is vulnerable to stop. Similar to Omega, it doesn't last long, but you can lock him down (not the hands though). One of the Dark Arts spells Deep Freeze does ice damage and inflicts stop, so the first phase was just a matter of locking down Enuo and pounding through it as quickly as possible before the hands could do much damage.

Then there's phase 2, which is the NED-like phase. This was tough. He has 60k HP and my hardest hitting spells were doing 3k damage.
Here's the AI script
code:
No Interrupt{
     {Dimension Zero,Meteor,Almagest}
     {Dimension Zero,White Hole,Maelstrom}
     }
{Flare,Holy,Delta Attack}
{Almagest,Almagest,Grand Cross}
{Drain Touch,Deep Freeze,Meltdown}
{L3 Flare,L4 Graviga,L5 Death}
Dimension Zero

Counter(HP Damage){
     alternates between {White Hole,Danse Macabre,Nothing}
     or {Reaper's Sword,Hurricane,Nothing}
     }
Dimension Zero does 5500 damage (9999 if you're in the front row).
Maelstrom would hit the entire party.
I was level 99 so Flare was the only level spell I had to watch out for.

For his counters, Reaper's Sword instantly kills a party member... but I'm Undead! Great! Except it isn't like other instant death attacks, it kills me anyway
Danse Macabre turns dead party members into Zombies. This never seemed to hit, but I'm not sure why, I definitely saw my characters get zombied at an earlier point in the Sealed Temple. Oh well, no complaints.

I spent most of my time throwing out Phoenix Downs and fishing for Assassin's Dagger procs with save states just to survive, if I had all 4 members up everyone but Butz would use Deep Freeze one at a time to deal with the counters. Eventually I whittled him down and got the kill

My first Quadruple Crown was fun, I didn't know much about Necromancer before this and I don't think I ever actually stepped foot into the Sealed Temple until now. I don't recommend it unless you are severely broken inside, but it was interesting. It's a shame Necromancer can't be used in official fiesta runs, it's a cool class.

Also...

CourtlyHades296 posted:

EDIT: I don't plan on doing a Sealed Temple toxx. That dungeon is obnoxious even with Time/Mystic/Bard/Cannoneer.

My first run of 2021 will be Random + Fifth Job on RPGE.
Coward!


nrook posted:



Legendary Weapon Charity Sale!

In order to raise money for charity, let's all sell the legendary weapons! I'll be donating $0.10 for each of the 12 legendary weapons sold.

I'm sure Omniscient will be glad for the extra company.
Oh and I sold 10 legendary weapons

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

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Samuel Clemens posted:

I wonder what the lowest level average is with which someone beat the game under the FJF ruleset. I know derra (RIP) had a toxx for beating the bonus bosses with a combined party level of less than 100, but I'm sure people have gone a lot lower than that.

I was thinking about doing a toxx to encourage this, something like $0.20 for every combined party level less than 100, but I never got around to it before the fiesta started

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

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Ok I'll do it

$0.20 for every combined party level under 100 when killing NED, so if your party levels are 25/25/25/24 I'll donate $0.20. If your levels are 1/1/1/1 I'll donate $19.20

In addition, for Omega and Shinryu kills I'll donate an extra $0.10 per level under 100 for each fight.

I'll set a $200 limit just in case y'all go wild on me

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

Quadnecro stuff

Make it a quintuple crown


In a lot of ways Omega Mk II is easier than Omega because instead of countering every attack it just changes vulnerabilities each time it is hit with its vulnerable element.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

I poked at Neo Shinryu for a bit, his weird targeting that causes misses a lot of the time might be too much of a slog even for me

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

Ok I'll do it

$0.20 for every combined party level under 100 when killing NED, so if your party levels are 25/25/25/24 I'll donate $0.20. If your levels are 1/1/1/1 I'll donate $19.20

In addition, for Omega and Shinryu kills I'll donate an extra $0.10 per level under 100 for each fight.

I'll set a $200 limit just in case y'all go wild on me

full writeup and shin/omega coming soon, but I did my own toxx





Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Cattail Prophet posted:

Uhhhh

Can the Big Bridge enemies be !Caught? I know you can avoid some of the encounters, but I thought there was at least one that was mandatory.

That was one of the trickier bits. They can't be caught, but they can be doomed. Enemies that die from doom give no exp. Getting doom was the tricky bit

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

BisbyWorl posted:

I think the only source of Doom by that point is to catch Jackanapes back at the Walse basement.

You don't have a save from before you went to World 2? Too bad, so sad.

Yup, they are also a pain to get weakened enough to catch at level 2 and 5. There were several points in the run where if I had missed something I would have been screwed later down the line. I took notes on every boss fight though, so once I finish Omega and Shinryu I'll cover everything.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

full writeup and shin/omega coming soon, but I did my own toxx







Iíve been thinking about this run since before the fiesta started, I did some research by reading these guides, which were invaluable. I couldnít have pulled this off without the work already done by these two:
https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-V-Advance-(by-Dr-Pepper)/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/snes/588331-final-fantasy-v/faqs/30049

But, neither of those were using fiesta rules, so there was still plenty to figure out along the way. Picking the right classes was going to be key.

From reading the guides, I knew that a Beastmaster was going to be absolutely essential. Beyond being a pretty broken class that can one shot a ton of bosses, enemies that are captured donít give exp. So I started with Beastmaster as my Wind job.

This Beastmaster guide got me through the first several bosses no problem.
I caught some Goblins outside of Tule, they hilariously cast Flare when released. They donít have much HP so catching them is actually kinda tricky even at a low level. I eventually found a combination of unarmed punches and knife pokes that got them into critical HP range and captured a few.

  • Karlabos - one-shot by Flare
  • Siren - vulnerable to petrify, so I used a caught Calcruthl from the ship graveyard to one shot her
  • Magissa - I differed from the guide and just used another Goblin Flare to one shot her and pick up the whip
  • Garula - The Bandersnatches near Walse cast Blaster when released which is 50/50 instant death

That brought me up to my next job decision point. Blue Mage was the obvious choice. The combo of Dark Spark, Level 2 Old, and Level 5 Death was just too good to pass up. There was just one problem, my levels were 2/2/2/3, the lowest possible levels you can complete the game with, and you have to be at least level 5 to get L5 Death. So I made the difficult decision to level up Faris to 5. Someday I want to go back and see if it is doable with fiesta rules with everyone at min level, but I didnít want to get stuck somewhere in this attempt. This put me at 2/2/2/5 which is where my levels stayed for the rest of the run.

Liquidflame went down to another Bandersnatch Blaster

The battle with Iron Claw during the Karnak 500 has unavoidable exp. If you kill everything normally it gives you 900 exp which pushes everyone to 4/4/4/5. However, if you kill the Sergeant first the wolves will flee and you only get 40 exp. The wolves donít attack on their own, so I used the whip to paralyze the Sergeant and slowly killed him and let the wolves run away. I also killed off Butz because he is slightly closer to level 3 than Lenna and Galuf and would have leveled up.

I went with Time Mage for my third job, my thinking being that as long as I could get to World 3 I could fall back on Quickleak if nothing else. I didnít do the math on this though... At level 5 Faris had 35 mp and Quick is a 77mp spell. Even with a Gold Hairpin I didnít have enough mp for Quick. Honestly Time Mage was kind of a dud for this run compared to the other classes. Slow, Stop, Comet, Gravity, and Teleport all had their uses, but none of them were really make or break. Oh well, if I try for a 2/2/2/3 run maybe this gets swapped for Chemist or something.

At this point I needed to get some job levels because I needed to mix and match my job abilities between fights. Abusing catch would be possible, but it would be very time consuming and would require constant attention. Luckily, there is an early repeatable fight that gives 0 exp and 1 ABP, the Garulas that run away outside of Walse Tower.

Side note: My philosophy with fiesta runs is to do what is humanly possible, but I have no problem with quality of life improvements to keep it fun. For example, repeating dungeons over and over because of bad RNG on a boss isnít fun or interesting, so Iím ok with using save states. Mindlessly grinding for hours isnít fun or interesting, so Iím ok with automating it because the challenge of automating it is way more fun and interesting than the challenge of walking back and forth for hours fighting Garulas.

So, I wrote a Lua script that walks back and forth fighting Garula over and over gaining 1 ABP at a time. Then I turned on Turbo Mode and waited while I slowly mastered each of the 3 jobs I had on everyone. The script itself was fairly simple and took about 30 minutes to put together. I had something similar already from my quadzerker run last year.

Now, with my freshly mastered jobs I was ready to continue. Nothing terribly interesting for the next few fights:
  • Ifrit - ice rod
  • Byblos - Page 32 catch, which casts Banish
  • I made sure to pick up L5 Death along the way
  • Sandworm - Dhorme Chimera + a rod
  • Crayclaw - Lightning rods
  • Adamantoise - Another Bandersnatch Blaster

The launchers/flamethrowers were pretty annoying, but I threw 4 rods at each
Soul Cannon - L5 death takes out launchers but not before they gave me old and reduced my level from 2 to 1 After they were down I spammed enough Lightning rods to take out the cannon before it had a chance to wave cannon me. This was the first time I used the Equip Rods ability, I put it on my Beastmaster so that they could snap rods too.

Archeoavis has a trick where if any of the forms die by sap damage the fight ends without the next form spawning. An Aegir from near Karnak and a Ronkan Knight combo for ~1500 damage and sap.

Before losing Galuf I needed to decide what my last job was going to be. Gil was a significant bottleneck up to this point and it was only going to get worse the more I had to throw Phoenix Downs around. I strongly considered Thief so that I could steal stuff to sell and Flee, but I worried that would handicap me in future fights. Once I had the airship I found a spot of ocean directly south of Walse that has an encounter that gives 2000 gil and 0 exp (Shout out to Dragondarchís encounter guide which was incredibly useful for encounter manipulation throughout the run)

The Corbetts there can be Controlled and they have a Maelstrom like attack, so killing them was fairly easy, but I needed to rest at an Inn after every battle so it was tedious and time consuming. So, over the course of the next couple days I wrote a Lua script that would do it for me. This was part of the run that was most fun for me personally, it was a very tricky thing to write and involved digging into parts of the GBA memory that havenít been mapped out yet. The script will Quicksave/Quickload to manipulate the encounter, sail back and forth until it gets into an encounter, control both Corbetts and kill them or reload from a pre-battle savestate if I die, then fly to Walse, stay at the Inn, fly back, and start all over again. It came out to about 350 lines of code and Iím quite proud of it. After days of work I let it run for a few hours until I had stocked up on phoenix downs and ethers and had some money left over until the next time I could find a good gil grinding spot.

With money taken care of I picked Bard for my final job, not even so much for Sing, but for Hide. Hide was my only chance of surviving any kind of AOE attack and gave me a way to wait out Doom timers without getting smashed. Sing was the icing on the cake.

  • Purobolos - If you control them and have them self destruct on themselves they donít case Arise. I made sure to pick up Self Destruct here, with only double digit HP it doesnít do a lot of damage so I probably wonít need it but you never knowÖ
  • Titan - Got float from North Mountain and then used a Sand Bear on him
  • Manticore - Another Bandersnatch Blaster

Now I was at the point of no return so I looked ahead a bit to make sure I wasnít going to screw myself over. Initially I was worried about the solo Gilgamesh fight because I didnít have Galuf around to Catch anything, but heís vulnerable to Gravity and that takes him out in one shot.

The Big Bridge has the next bit of exp that has to be avoided. The first Little Chariot fight is unavoidable and they canít be caught. The other way to avoid experience is to kill something with Doom, for whatever reason that doesnít give exp. The only source of Doom prior to Big Bridge is from catching Jackanapes from the basement of Walse Castle. This was tricky, it absorbed all elements and was immune to any useful status effects other than Control. It could hit itself for decent damage under Control after using Off Guard, but it would always counter that with Moon Flute. Its other Control command was Encircle, which thankfully didnít work on itself, so I could at least keep it locked down, but I still had to figure out how to damage it with non-elemental magic.

Remember how I said Self Destruct probably wouldnít be useful? Well... I used it to take of 95 HP at a time until they were catchable. It was painful.

That left Bridge Gilgamesh to plan for. Heís vulnerable to Old, but I didnít have Level 2 Old yet. I did have the Ancient Sword from the Ronka Ruins purely by chance, that has a 33% chance of inflicting Old. Once heís old a carefully timed L5 death will take him out.

The bosses after that all had W2 based strategies, so I jumped in the portal and carried out the plan. The rest of the game was pretty straight forward. These classes are broken so bad.
  • Dragon Pod - rod for the flowers, then released an Aquathorn for Death
  • Boat Gilgamesh - Dark Spark + L5 Death
  • Atomos - Dark Spark + L5 Death
  • Crystals - Captured some Sandcrawlers for Maelstrom, put the Aegis Shield and Flame Ring on Galuf, and then got lots of luck. Spead out Elven Mantles and Aegis Shield because they get 4 hard hitting attacks right off the bat before I have any chance to act.
  • Exdeath - Level 2 Old, Level 5 Death
  • Antlion - Released a Yellow Dragon I had saved from W2Ö and it didnít do much damage. I was able to Old him and then slowly whittle him down with Blue Magic
  • Gargoyles - Put to sleep with sleep sword then used rods
  • Mummies - This was one of the harder fights of the run. They get 3 hits at the beginning of the fight so more often than not I was just dead immediately. I had to get really lucky with elven mantle and aegis shield procs to give me time to kill them with Phoenix Downs
  • Melusine - Sleep via Sleep Blade, then Dark Spark to get to an even level. Level 2 Old to get to level 10. Level 5 death to instant kill
  • Calofisteri - Level 2 Old, Level 5 Death
  • Apanda - 3x Great Dragon release for 9999 each
  • Azulmagia - Taught him self destruct
  • Catastrophe - 2x Great Dragons
  • Halicarnassus - 4x Great Dragons
  • Twintania - Hide until the phase shift and then L5 death
  • Treedeath - Sing songs until everyone is level 100 with 100 speed/strength/magic. Everything is single target so it wasnít hard to keep up with throwing out Phoenix Downs. Once everyone was maxed out the Chicken Knife and Aeroga were both doing 7k damage.
  • Neo Exdeath - Aeroga/Chicken Knife everything. I was so fast that he never really did anything to me. I took out the Almagest part first, then Grand Cross, he never got a chance to use either. Then took out the front and magic lamped the back. The mummies were harder.

  • Omega - Bard stop lock/stat boost, Blue Mage using Coral sword
  • Shinryu - Annoying to setup. Had to go to Phoenix Tower to steal a reflect ring, then capture a Mammon and a Galajelly from the roof of the castle in the rift for Berserk and Blind. The berserk casts on a party member, so it took several tries to get it to bounce off the reflected person. After that I just used the Apollo Harp.

Overall, this was a really fun run. Each boss was a fun puzzle.

Jose Valasquez fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jul 2, 2021

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Cattail Prophet posted:

I was gonna say that setting up ???? seems like it would have been the better play here, but apparently ???? has to deal with magic evasion, which Jackanapes has a lot of.

I wish I could say I considered this and found self destruct better, but I just never bothered getting ???? and didn't even think about it, lol

If it didn't have the magic evasion thing it definitely would have been quicker since it eliminates the phoenix down and hi-potion steps each turn

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Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

You can also common steal reflect rings from lemures in Phoenix tower 1f with the thief knife

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