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Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Weyd posted:

You got me curious, what happens if you sphere China? As far as I understand the Vicky 2 mechanics, wouldn't it only negatively affect the countries that are of lower rank than China?

Early game, a lot of your income comes from tariffs. Your pops and factories buy from spherelings before the world market, and you can't charge tariffs on goods from spherelings. China produces such vast amounts of basically everything that your country won't buy anything from the world market. Put all that together, and sphering China fucks your budget up real nice.

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Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

The Irish, circa 1850 posted:

where the gently caress are the potatoes

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

ThaumPenguin posted:

I'll admit to having optimization tendencies, but those are born out of this weird fear that if I don't play as optimally as possible, I'll fall behind and the whole playthrough will be for nothing, just wasted time. It's as if every game that offers you chances to customize your playstyle and try out different things are just elaborately designed trap-mazes for me to make it through.

This might just be trauma from playing unmodded Oblivion at a formative stage in my life, I dunno

Anyway, I wonder how many other optimizers are similarly motivated by anxiety rather than the desire to master a system, or to just get their regular power fantasy fill.

Hey there, if-I-don't-play-perfectly-everything-will-collapse-around-my-ears buddy :hfive:

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

ilitarist posted:

I have little hope that the game will successfully portray warfare from basically Napoleonics to 20th century which can feature both trench war and gurilla fighting.

I can imagine them making "battles" continue for months in late game simulating trench warfare at the specific level of technology and industrial capacity. But it will look strange if it means that you have millions of troops engaged in some minor settlement in a middle of France.

Vicky 2 got around that bit fairly well by reducing combat width as your army tech improved, forcing you to spread your troops out if you wanted to accomplish much in the late game.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Raenir Salazar posted:

The rebels that form from you own army units tend to be tougher.

But they immediately wind up in combat with the loyal 90% of the army and get slaughtered, so it doesn't matter.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Raenir Salazar posted:

If you lack railways would stuff still get imported as needed but is just more expensive? Like for a few hundred years the Siberian fur trade was of incredible importance for Russia's interest in expanding out eastwards and relied heavily on sleds/fording rivers and so on similar to the North American fur trade to feed the appetite for furs in various European capitals.

Can goods from a non railway area still make it to another country/continent? And if so, how does not having a railway effect it vs having one?

Wiz posted:

If you have one bread basket state and one iron mining state, and they both have perfect Market Access, the price of iron and grain will be the same in both. If the iron mining state’s Market Access is reduced, the market’s price of iron goes up while the local price of iron in the mining state goes down. But in addition to this the iron mining state will be unable to source as much grain, raising the local price there but reducing its price somewhat across the rest of the market.
And that probably works between countries, too, so if Russia has poo poo infrastructure it can still export furs, but the price will be sky-high.

Pakled posted:

I'm assuming states have some amount of base infrastructure to represent pre-industrial trade methods, even before infrastructure bonuses from rivers and stuff.

Wiz posted:

Infrastructure is provided and modified by numerous sources. Just about all States in the game have at least a little bit of Infrastructure based on the technology level of the country that owns it and its state of incorporation (colonies have lower infrastructure than incorporated states, for example).
Apparently!

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Aah, I see your point. Yeah, it makes sense that taking out the risk of potentially devastating gambles completely screws up the risk-reward calculations relative to a country's historical situation. You'd have to add disincentives to ahistorical behavior of that sort which were punishing enough that even a success wouldn't feel worth it, which would equally as ahistorical just in the opposite direction, AND super unsatisfying to the player.

The closest thing to a solution would be some sort of "Learn to live with your mistakes" penalty, where abandoning your current game to restart with the same country would make your country a lot weaker on a restart. So like, you get a -30% manpower modifier or something for abandoning your playthrough before the first 50 years are over, a penalty that goes away the moment you have played through the first 50 years on any country. A quite heavy-handed approach, and even then it probably wouldn't completely solve the issue.

If you add a penalty for savescumming, approximately nobody will buy the game.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

A Buttery Pastry posted:

That was kinda my point. Like, you can only "solve the issue" by making the game excessively punitive, and the issue probably isn't even an issue to most people.

Yeah, fair, I should've read your post as saying that was a bad idea.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

DrSunshine posted:

I'm going to ameliorate my climate change induced anxiety by playing a fantasy of going 100% renewables as the USA by 1900.

ironically by doing so you will burn more fossil fuels in real life

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

canepazzo posted:

Bear in mind, I'm not criticizing the move to fronts, I love the idea and can't wait to play it; just trying to figure out how it will work.

But say, France attacking Austria in a war of containment, for example? Or a humiliation one?

One of the previous dev diaries mentioned a "violate sovereignty" option for invading through somebody else's territory, that ought to do the job.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Demiurge4 posted:

It's still very western centered terminology. A GP is defined through the lens of western thought, but an industrialized China of equal or greater power to the western powers should be able to just be a power in its own sphere, on its own terms.

It can. Recognised/Unrecognised is literally just "what does the Official Great Powers Club think of this country?" and an unrecognised country can carve out and hold a sphere of influence just fine.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose
The dev diary says that one way of going from Unrecognised to Recognised is to bloody the nose of a great power, and if the Official Great Powers Club winds up weaker than China or Ethiopia or Mysore or whoever, that's probably gonna happen pretty quickly, because loving around where you aren't wanted is what great powers do.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

fuf posted:

Yeah something like that.

I think what I'm wondering is:

If the unrecognized nations are hardcoded at game start, could you end up in a weird situation where the GP list is populated by unrecognized powers?
No, because unrecognised powers can't be great powers. They cap out at Unrecognised Major Power, which is below the lowest-rank GPs, and GPs are drawn from the Recognised countries only.

quote:

Or, if the unrecognized nations are determined by dynamic rules and as a function of which nations are on the GP list, could you end up with weird situations where the recognized/unrecognized distribution "flips" as the GP list changes?
I'm sure they could write code to do that, and it'd be pretty cool, but I don't see them bothering.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

European powers were able to colonize and control other peoples because they had technological, logistical, and organizational advantages, not the magical power of racism.
Yes, (a lot of) the racism came after the overwhelming military advantage, but Whitey being racist against everyone else was very much an established thing in 1836, and the Recognised/Unrecognised thing is the game presenting Whitey's opinion, not as metaphysical fact, but as something important enough to care about. It does this because Whitey can, at the start of the game, kick the everloving poo poo out of everybody else, and if you don't pay attention to the guy who can kick the everloving poo poo out of you, you will get the everloving poo poo kicked out of you. By the time anyone has gotten strong enough to stand up to him, Whitey has gotten so used to kicking the everloving poo poo out of everybody else that he takes it for granted, and won't consider anyone else worth giving a gently caress about until he's been punched in the dick a few times.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

ThaumPenguin posted:

Good to know, I'll keep em coming! :yeeclaw:

Thanks for saving me the trouble of going on Twitter! :patriot:

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

I think the read there is, due to Texas buying up the sulfur via the import deal, it decreases the domestic price (added supply, lower price to clear) and increases the foreign (American) price (reduced supply, higher price to maintain). Basically, it becomes cheaper in Texas due to the contract being in place and slightly more expensive for America, though presumably America benefits in some way (lump sum payment, upkeep, supply of an alternative good, or simply it's the long game of increasing the size of industries of which sulfur is a component).

It's a little unclear exactly what it means at present, but this is my best guess.

So, the Texan government's buying sulphur and then dumping it on the market at a loss so they can get more ammo made?

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose
Or a lot of oil (also like the US)

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Koorisch posted:

Usually a good idea is to try to get to Great Power status as soon as possible, usually by industrializing, doing small humiliation CB's on tiny enemies for easy prestige, invading and conquering Sokoto & company and the southern tip of Thailand with it's valuable rare metal provinces.

This obviously only works on vanilla so if you have any mods on I don't have as much of an answer.

Don't forget researching all the art!

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Mantis42 posted:

1. Get Money
2. Shoot Civilize natives
3. Smoke Opium

Wisdom.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

DrSunshine posted:

10k Landed Gentry
25k Capitalists
150k Artisans
25.45M Karl Marx
365k Farmers
100k Industrial Laborers

Someone please help my country is dying

Guillotine your landed gentry.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

DaysBefore posted:

Oh no now the capitalists are in charge and might even be worse

Ah, but by guillotining the landed gentry, you increased demand, and now the capitalists have built a guillotine factory.

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Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose
I'm looking forward to playing Victoria 4.

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