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Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

What if John Brown had succeeded.

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Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.



Should be immortalized on LPArchive too

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


it was a final secret patch, not the full expansion, but it was a ton of QoL improvements outta the blue that ruled

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


i think..it was a joke.. and not a sincere criticism..

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Randarkman posted:

If I'm going to be honest, even though I'm pretty sure Vicky 2 is a better game, I always did like the original Vicky/Ricky more. I played the crap out of that in high school.

Agreed. The satisfaction of being the one to promote your POPs and guiding them along was a lot more..immersive? than the Vicky 2 model.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


^ March of the Eagles is nothing like Victoria, I don't think you're making a lot of sense with that post.

That said, I'd like them to get 1836 working to their spec, which requires a lot less changes, before I see them begin juggling other important historical contexts as well.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


ilitarist posted:

I want every strategy game to have music designed the same way as in CK3. It's ambient on the edge of your consciousness most of the time until you get a feast or war. Made me realize that hearing inspiring Hollywood score in Imperator or Stellaris while I decide where to build a farm was always wrong.

the stellaris score during the exploration phase is perfect the first couple times through though

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


something else i hope organically happens is that players will stride into 1914 arrogantly thinking "well ive definitely eclipsed all the other powers, time to steamroll them for their colonies", and then their entire country falls apart in an apocalyptic hellwar their economy couldnt possibly handle :allears:

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


ilitarist posted:

Vicky 3 probably ends around 1936. 9 years before the first nuclear weapon use. Depending on how the things go it's not outlandish to imagine people having nukes a decade earlier.

Just pointing this out.

This is an all time goony post

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

I work in non-game development, but I wonder what user stories look like in a game like Victoria.

"As a slave pop, I would like to be able to kill my master pop and overthrow the government. Please fix ASAP, this is affecting production!"


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

What if John Brown had succeeded.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Ottomans are my third game, after a Two Sicilies run and a Prussia run. This is the fabled prophecy handed down from Victoria: Revolutions, to Victoria 2, and now to its successor, Victoria: The Third One

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Raenir Salazar posted:

Japanese history during the period is a little complex. The Shogunate while powerful, is kinda more like if you had the Holy Roman Empire with the Emperor as a figurehead and Wallenstein controlling the government. IIRC you had dozens if not over a hundred feudal domains that were vassals and the modernist/restoration faction and the shogunate faction in the Boshin War were made up of these feudal domains. The Shogun's influence had waned considerably due to the opening up of Japan to foreigners.

You could use something similar to the V2 China mechanic with the subnations to reflect this as an example. Having Japan start unified in the base game is more of a contrivance to make running Japan convenient for the player but isn't accurate.

It's a LOT more accurate than depicting independent nations instead of a unified Japan. The Shogunate was highly centralized, as can be shown by how swiftly the Boshin War was handled and the Restoration began.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Raenir Salazar posted:

The Shogunate clearly wasn't very centralized given it had to deal with a full blown civil war in which it lost. You're confusing how quickly the feudal domains allowed themselves to be re-centralized under the Imperial court and the resulting new government/Diet with how they were in the 50 some-odd years leading up to it. Feudal Japan is still Feudal Japan. Plenty of European feudal nations looked centralized from the outside until they weren't thanks to the feudal/social contract the landed nobility held with the King. And the power balance between the Shogun and the Daimyo changed from reign to reign.

Losing a civil war rapidly is itself indicative of high centralization, though?

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


All the more reason Paradox games should be decoupled from historical settings, since Paradox routinely fails to grapple with historical atrocities :colbert:

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

That ain't just tsarist Russia, that's SOP for everyone in the first half of the period.

At least with the british you had to volunteer for lifelong thankless toil for the Queen.

or you were pressganged into it

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

That's what I said, volunteer.

:discourse:

Wiz posted:

Making the steam forums lose its poo poo because we're not trying to be racist/fascist when designing V3 is a highlight of my week.

:discourse:

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


It sounds like buildings are attempting to compromise by not being as micro-heavy as Ricky, but still being as rewarding as being the one who is industrializating your nation that it had.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


CharlestheHammer posted:

Stuff like this is why Vicky 2 was good and 3 being a more consistent and logical game would be a shame

To be clear, stuff like that is why Vicky 2 was NOT good, but fun in spite of that fact. It's better for Victoria 3 to be, uh, a well made game.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


for the love of god stop with the loving designers the AI will never know how to use and players just memorize the meta template for

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Mantis42 posted:

Top hat designer. The fancier it is, the more resources it costs to produce but the happier your Capitalists.

nevermind this will do it

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Do NOT play as the UK in a Victoria game, it is a management nightmare

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Gort posted:

I mean, the two Victoria games are really different, sounds like

You probably shouldn't lump them together like this

(I never played 1 but people talk about manually splitting and promoting pops and that sounds like some bullshit)

I’ve played Britain in both.


Man, how is Wiz sneaking these great design plans by in Modern Paradox? :v:

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Thinking and making interesting decisions is exactly what I hope this game will facilitate in my country :psyduck:

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Agean90 posted:

the devs should just go with the one that's the most interesting and ties in the best with the games design goals and let modders do maximum historicity imo

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


I think a lot of people are just letting their experience with Victoria 2 limit and hinder their thoughts around the design of this game, up to and including the idea that the player is specifically the state and so the decision is "either players build this or the capitalist AI does or the communist peasant societies do".

e: to the point where I even saw a poster worried that private industries would be its own building that abstracted capitalism?

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


bob dobbs is dead posted:

how many algos implementin this game are gonna be strictly ω(n) (not O(n), ω(n)) and so dog poo poo slow in late game

so much of the stellaris futzing really really smells like they wrote ω(n) stuff for a buncha variables like pops and jobs and poo poo and they whacked n down instead of cracking open the good algos

I don't follow the Stellaris thread but didn't folks in there describe things like Djikstra's algorithm as unsolvable problems, and O(n) a pipe dream? Things like that don't give me confidence, especially with recent Paradox releases.

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


if they pull off their design goals i guess i honestly don't mind if it's a tick every ten minutes

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


A Buttery Pastry posted:

I mean, it should probably be in-game time, but yeah, speeding up the game by making ticks more spread out probably wouldn't be the worst thing. Even better if they ran on offset cycles, so the computing load was sorta similar across the year, rather than every non-combat calculation being bunched up at the start of each month.

I.. meant just that it would take 10 minutes to go to the next fourth of day, due to how bad performance was, but sure :v:

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Mans posted:

Goons and MLG YouTubers need to be able to make tedious army movements so that they can bait the bad AI into being encircled and then pretend they're geniuses.

"this is meaningful interaction, to me,,"

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


VanSandman posted:

How do you model incompetency in a game like this? Nicholas II's dumb choices at every opportunity was part of the reason the Russian Revolution happened. How would that work in a Victoria 3 context?

You're an Absolute Monarchy in the 20th century, and the associated militancy? You don't need to represent "wanders away into WW1 frontlines", you only really need to represent "the people demand reforms constantly", since eventually you fail dice rolls on rulers.

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Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


One thing Johan was right about is that if you’re automating a system for players, you should reconsider how that system works. The “hunt rebels “ button existing, while nice, points pretty strongly to that.

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