Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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feller: Jul 5, 2006

BillBear posted:

What do you guys think about the fact that the game will roughly have around the same amount of ticks as EU4? I'm relieved because I really don't like how short Vic II feels, but I'm also wondering how it'll scale in-game because it's such a jump.

I personally love how short vicky2 is. It's the only paradox game I've played to the end-date more than once in. The focus on things other than painting the map might mean I still play to the end of Vicky3 though. In EU/CK/Stellaris there's no point in continuing after a while anyway.

Tuna-Fish posted:

What I really loved about the original Vicky was how broken it was in so many ways. You could do crazy poo poo like play Uruguay, use a few tricks to implement all social and political reforms asap, and then all the immigration from Europe came to you.

Which was particularly great, because Uruguay had just one state, and in early Vicky 1, capitalists gave a a factory output efficiency bonus without stacking penalty, so what you did was build a level 1 factory of all good types, then have one craftsmen and one clerk pop in each, and then turn every single other pop you have into capitalists.

So pretty soon you have a tiny country with >50M pop, with a few factory workers that each have a hundred capitalists looking over their shoulders, and the whole setup is ridiculously profitable, as you can compete with the industrial output of the rest of the world while only taking enough input products to run a single level 1 factory.

I love this

# ¿ May 23, 2021 00:56

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:29

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Star posted:

Why are you all tempting me to pick up Vicky 2 again... especially since I know I�ll just end up doing another �modernize the Ottomans� playthrough.

That's one of my favorite vicky campaigns. Austria and Mexico are also very good imo.

# ¿ May 23, 2021 22:35

feller: Jul 5, 2006

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Which US states should start off as unrecognized?

texas and the 13 colonies are the only ones to have won wars at game start, so are the only recognized states

# ¿ May 26, 2021 18:10

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Raenir Salazar posted:

There isn't anything inherently "wrong" with using games to teach complex subjects. Again see Trains.

am I missing something or are you comparing trains to slavery

# ¿ May 29, 2021 22:45

feller: Jul 5, 2006

I think the market in vicky 2 was described wrong. There are two markets for a country to care about: their common market (the stuff they produce, plus a percentage from countries in their sphere) and the world market. Prestige affects the world market but not the common market. I believe that stuff only goes to the world market if it isn't sold on the common market.

The big problem with sphering china specifically is that they have a billions artisans that drive down the price of goods and make your factories/own artisans extremely unprofitable.

feller fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 31, 2021

# ¿ May 31, 2021 21:44

feller: Jul 5, 2006

a big reserve of money is important for when you actually have to supply your boats because england refuses to make peace in a crisis

# ¿ Jun 1, 2021 00:30

feller: Jul 5, 2006

I would prefer if we didn't even have manual control of our navies. Just let me assign ships to fleets and fleets to missions like blockade or trade protection or whatever. I hate controlling navies.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2021 05:09

feller: Jul 5, 2006

DelilahFlowers posted:

If I don't see a farm for every vegetable, then im not buying this game. Yes, even swedes.

that's... not how babby is formed

# ¿ Jun 16, 2021 18:04

feller: Jul 5, 2006

A lot of american engineers are in unions too even, like the speea

# ¿ Jul 1, 2021 15:46

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Hungary had a good shot at getting what they wanted in 1848 before Russian intervention and the Mexican Revolution actually succeeded. The Italians also had a very good chance in '48 before the SP king messed it up but that's part revolution/part invasion and idk how the heck PDS could model that. Also there's Russia ofc.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2021 17:58

feller: Jul 5, 2006

lol I love that France had so many revolutions during this timeframe that no one can keep them straight

CharlestheHammer posted:

To be fair the people who rioted and the people who gave the throne to the guy where not the same people.

In fact the second group specifically stayed out of that stuff

I think you're describing the 1830 rev when they're talking about 1848

feller fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jul 14, 2021

# ¿ Jul 14, 2021 15:15

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Gort posted:

Wait, why does social security increase the political strength of industrialists? That seems backwards.

Or is it a "industrialists are radicalised to push back politically against a society where they don't get to decide who lives and who dies by firing them" kind of thing

Same question regarding healthcare and the devout.

That's at tier 1. I would assume the industrialists' strength goes down as you go up in tiers.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2021 15:42

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Raenir Salazar posted:

I'm puzzled on the level of centralization having an effect in of itself on institutions; in some ways being highly centralized could make it easier to implement reforms, while a decentralized nation can more easily resist such reforms.

I feel like there should be something like a political compass thingy, like having two axis's where something like a highly centralized by conservative bureaucracy is less interested in implementing reforms but an innovative one will do so.

I think that's where interest groups come into play. If I'm reading this right, you have to pass laws to enact reforms and if your interest groups aren't playing ball it'll be hard to expand the bureaucracy.

Also lol at your new av.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2021 22:11

feller: Jul 5, 2006

It's a bit unsettling to me how much paradox players care about prussia's map color

# ¿ Aug 4, 2021 16:55

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Meme prussian space marine fans unsettle me more than wanting it to be Prussia-coloured tbh. The preisch deserve to get a ton of military buffs by virtue of being prussian, based on two wars ever, but any tag that isn't suitably white and pickelhaube'd gets mil buffs it's woke sjw nonsense.

I don't understand the 2nd sentence at all, but I agree with the first.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2021 17:09

feller: Jul 5, 2006

In Vicky 2, I think they start with a few more miltechs than everyone else and that's mostly it. In EU4 they get a special government form that is very dumb and strong

# ¿ Aug 4, 2021 18:41

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Oh huh, it's been so long since I played Prussia I guess I forgot. That's a nice buff but not gamebreaking imo. I also like that it's a temporary buff a lot.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2021 19:20

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Grevlek posted:

Did we find out if the camera uses WASD controls or are they still weird hotkeys no one uses?

I use them

# ¿ Aug 10, 2021 03:51

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Do you not know about holding middle mouse to pan or just not like it? I do that even with wasd controls

# ¿ Aug 10, 2021 06:09

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Grevlek posted:

I'm not a big fan of it personally. I usually have a push to talk button queued to that.

I get there are alternatives, and I also have fond memories of Paradox Games being obscure and weird, thus making me a better gamer than other people.

But like, just standardize the UI across your games plz.

Not quite sure what you're accusing me of here, but you shouldn't get weird about people liking different control schemes imo

# ¿ Aug 10, 2021 20:39

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Wtf is weird about that or accusing you of anything?

the 2nd line?

# ¿ Aug 10, 2021 20:50

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Grevlek posted:

lol that was more about me. I remember telling people about Paradox games, and being like, 'yeah i mean i guess there is a lot going on Civ 4, but wait till you play EU2' and the difficult UI being a badge of honor.

Similarly, I can play Dwarf Fortress with my eyes closed, because I memorized the Byzantine pattern of button presses to do what I want.

I'm getting old. Weird old UIs and legacy button presses aren't good prima facie. Paradox has taken many steps to 'mainstream' their games, and I think WASD map controls are a part of that.

Last thing, moving the mouse to the edge generally works, unless you have 2 monitors. In which case, your cursor goes off the screen, and your map scrolls that direction until it gets back on. You have accurate control of 3 directions, not 4.

Paradox released 2 grand strategy games in 2016, one of them has WASD controls, one does not. The one that does not, does not allow me to adjust what the key inputs do, and only the 'W' is assigned to anything.

Y'alls mileage may vary. I don't like putting my left hand on the arrow keys. After 20+ years of doing it, it's hurting my wrist.

Ahh, ok. CK3 has WASD controls and uses E to switch to the main map mode. I think it works well and assume/hope that's how they'll do it in vicky3

# ¿ Aug 10, 2021 21:16

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Takanago posted:

HoI4 has all kinds of neo-monarchist routes, CK3 lets you reform the Roman Empire, and EU4 is adding the ability for Mali to crash the entire economy of Europe with gold. I think there's room for wild alt history fantasy scenarios in Vicky 3 (eventually, probably after launch)

They've already nerfed the mail thing

# ¿ Sep 24, 2021 21:56

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Gort posted:

you don't

Edit: Ahaha, in before the edit

Edit2: Even the edit's wrong, he's a pig not a boar

Fake Edit3: A boar is not a pig OK

yeah well you're a bore

# ¿ Oct 5, 2021 20:46

feller: Jul 5, 2006

karmicknight posted:

forget it, Hellioning. It's Heathcliff.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2021 19:41

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Unfortunately, the best Vicky III mod was already made for HoI2

# ¿ Oct 24, 2021 02:35

feller: Jul 5, 2006

ilitarist posted:

It certainly wasn't fashionable but I just find it weird that the game system doesn't allow for extremely famous surprise attacks that happened 20 years before its timespan (Napoleon's invasion of Russia) and 3 years after (WW2 had a few of those).

I may be misunderstanding the abstraction here. I guess for all of those you can argue that Diplomatic Play was in progress for years, the only surprise was a specific date.

But neither of those were surprise attacks

# ¿ Oct 29, 2021 16:10

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Cantorsdust posted:

Granted, but usually that's because countries will give in to reasonable terms prior to a complete and total occupation. But in cases where one side was completely and utterly defeated, annexation or wholesale creation of client states was much more common. In the time periods immediately preceding (Napoleonic Wars, creation of Spain and confederacy of the Rhineland as client states, wholesale annexation of the lowlands) and following (WW2, complete splitting of Germany, creation of the Iron Curtain and Soviet republics etc) the Victoria timeframe, annexation or puppeting after complete and total subjugation was the norm. And if WW1 had ended with the complete destruction of the Central Powers forces and occupation of Berlin, I doubt that Germany as a state would still exist, for example.

Again, I grant that most wars between major powers throughout history have not ended in total annexation (although plenty of wars between one major and one minor power did!). But, most wars between major powers throughout history did not result in the equivalent of a Paradox 100% war score either. In fact, I'm curious to know if there are good historical counterexamples of where in a war with the complete occupation of a power's capital and countryside where the invaders agreed to limited terms.

Franco-Prussian war

# ¿ Oct 29, 2021 19:57

feller: Jul 5, 2006

DrSunshine posted:

It sounds like what they did was flip the HOI4 design on its head. Perhaps we'll get abstracted land wars with troop training orders and supply lines connected to vast theatres, and micro-intensive naval combat with specific naval units to order around?

naval micro is annoying as hell in every paradox game I�ve had to do it in so no thanks. I�m not sure where you got that from though and I doubt it happens.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2021 21:57

feller: Jul 5, 2006

CharlestheHammer posted:

Oh I wasn�t talking about me

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 03:39

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Cease to Hope posted:

focuses, influence, colonization, and research are all spending intangible currency for tangible benefits

you're trying to say that vicky 2 doesn't have mana, i get it, i just disagree

you think focuses are a currency?

# ¿ Nov 22, 2021 05:25

feller: Jul 5, 2006

CharlestheHammer posted:

It�s a good thing no paradox game encourages min maxing including this one, I guess?

I can�t think of many games that actively encourages min maxing outside the most hardcore of the frog arc games.

Like even CK where you can min max to your hearts content does nothing to encourage you to do so

A lot of the people in this thread play MP where, at least in stellaris, it's much more necessary.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2021 01:32

feller: Jul 5, 2006

I remember a dev turning the ottos into byzantium and just owning one of their dev clashes and then next patch end game tags are a thing.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2021 17:19

feller: Jul 5, 2006

As Haiti in V2, I just had the USA conquer much of Spain's empire for me. Then I used that and amazing art to become a GP and join the race for Africa.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2022 02:20

feller: Jul 5, 2006

I appreciate you posting them

# ¿ Mar 9, 2022 17:32

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Raenir Salazar posted:

To be fair, "fun" and "engaging" while often overlap don't always do so. Dwarf Fortress, Soulsborne games, some retro strategy games like Emperor of the Fading Suns, the Attilla Rome Total War game; some of the scenarios in Hearts of Iron 2 playing as Germany; some of the levels in Caesar III, etc; probably weren't "fun" but could be hella engaging.

lol stopped reading here custom title checks out

# ¿ Apr 4, 2022 19:10

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Putin is losing because his micro is bad.

Sometimes the player needs to lose.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2022 20:41

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Orange Devil posted:

We're a real Paradox games thread now that we are letting actual nazi's post here.

???

# ¿ May 27, 2022 17:07

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Cease to Hope posted:

every other goal you might have in the game is premised on the ability to continue playing it

you're not supposed to actually let them annex you lol

# ¿ Jun 30, 2022 17:11

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:29

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Fellblade posted:

I don't think it's really an issue for the majority of players, especially not nerds who play enough to post in here, it's a 'problem' for designers.

Anecdotally from a few people I've introduced to various PDX titles, being a new player and getting in to a situation where you can be diplo-annexed often comes along as either a big surprise game over or by the time you get notified it's going to happen it's far too late, game over.

A large part of that is because the design previously seems to have been done assuming the player is the one doing the annexing, so it doesn't matter, but from the perspective of the player being annexed it is a bad gameplay experience because you can't do poo poo about it most of the time.

are you having them start as vassals in eu4 or what? being diplo annexed is not a common thing in pds games at all. it's only possible in like 2 of them anyway

# ¿ Jul 1, 2022 04:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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