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ZShakespeare)
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That's my response to the situation as well then I guess. What does profiting from the property even have anything to do with it? Like I'm supposed to not live in my house when I'm without a job? That doesn't make sense.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:02
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If you need to live in the house, don't rent it out, it's very simple. If you want to be a landlord, roll the dice. The relevance of the profit motive is that you've made a choice to benefit yourself at the expense of another, by simple virtue of ownership, and in theory you take on some risks and responsibilities in order to realize that profit. In practice, you can simply not take on any responsibility, profit, and evict someone from what is now their home because they've become an inconvenience to you. This is all academic, since the law says you can evict someone if you intend to occupy the unit personally. You are legally able to do the thing, and you clearly don't have any moral qualms about it, so there's not much to discuss. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 03:04
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Stanley Pain posted:So it's ok for the other person to be homeless then? Like what happens if I move out of province/country for work, rent out expecting to be gone 3 years, and then I get laid off? I'm supposed to eat poo poo? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps
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Feb 1, 2023 03:16
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Stanley Pain posted:So it's ok for the other person to be homeless then? Like what happens if I move out of province/country for work, rent out expecting to be gone 3 years, and then I get laid off? I'm supposed to eat poo poo? Yes, you get to eat poo poo. What a dumb question.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:17
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Stanley Pain posted:So it's ok for the other person to be homeless then? Like what happens if I move out of province/country for work, rent out expecting to be gone 3 years, and then I get laid off? I'm supposed to eat poo poo? Then you sell it to someone who wants an asset that generates rental income from day one, and use the money to find a place to live. Or, practically speaking, there could be allowances in the law that allow you to buy a tenant out of their tenancy by making them whole. That would make sense.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:22
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 indeed.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:36
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Crow Buddy posted:Yes, you get to eat poo poo. What a dumb question. I'll bite on this one. So why doesn't the other person deserve to eat poo poo? Why does compassion not flow both ways here? COPE 27 posted:Pull yourself up by your bootstraps Well in this hypothetical I am, by kicking out a renter. They are the ones that need to pull themselves up  .
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Feb 1, 2023 03:39
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Stanley Pain posted:So why doesn't the other person deserve to eat poo poo? Why does compassion not flow both ways here? One of the people is paying, the other is being paid, there is a power dynamic here. Traditionally, and indeed in this specific case, as the law stands, the one who is paying, who does not have the benefit of ownership, and who has not been receiving monthly passive income for no labour, gets to eat poo poo. There is no both ways.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:48
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infernal machines posted:One of the people is paying, the other is being paid, there is a power dynamic here. Traditionally, and indeed in this specific case, as the law stands, the one who is paying, who does not have the benefit of ownership, and who has not been receiving monthly passive income for no labour, gets to eat poo poo. Does renting something mean someone has the moral right to stay there forever?
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Feb 1, 2023 03:51
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Ah I see, landlord sympathy time in the thread *climbs into barrel heading straight for Niagra Falls*
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Feb 1, 2023 03:53
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What kind of hypothetical is this? Like, the only moral landlording is not landlording, everything on down is rotten fruit from a lovely tree, so arguing about "moral right" isn't going to go very far. We know where the law stands. Personally, I think that if you rent a place out, make a profit from it, simply for owning a place someone else needs to live, you can have some responsibility towards them, specifically not being able to kick them out the moment it becomes inconvenient for you. Your moral obligation would be to either allow them to live there for so long as they follow the terms of the agreement you made with them, or to find a way to make them whole, if you simply must displace them. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 03:55
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I think I'm not going to feel generous towards the person renting out a $5000/month a house who then illegally gave insufficient notice to kick out a tenant based on a lie only to immediately rent out the same house for $10000/month
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Feb 1, 2023 03:57
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But I'm kinda quirky like that
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Feb 1, 2023 03:57
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But what about forums poster Stanley Pain, who just rented their home out for three years, and immediately got laid off? What about that specific scenario, that surely means that the only real rights are landlord's rights?
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Feb 1, 2023 03:59
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Stanley Pain posted:Does renting something mean someone has the moral right to stay there forever? Does being a leech on society give you the moral right to make someone homeless?
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Feb 1, 2023 04:02
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Well, according to Toronto Life magazine... But seriously, Stanley, I don't think you're going to find a lot of sympathy for this point of view in a thread full of people who will never be able to own property because everything costs millions due to real estate speculation and investment.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:04
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infernal machines posted:What kind of hypothetical is this? I don't think I was clear with my initial description. My bad. Let me rephrase. This isn't kicking someone with 0 notice. If I rent out a house to someone for say 3 years, but 1 year in I have to move back to that house because of being laid off out of province or whatever, What am I supposed to do? Let the person stay there for 2 more years while I eat poo poo?
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Feb 1, 2023 04:05
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Why is it that landlords (and even you, Stanley Pain) are so quick to whine whenever they endure misfortune? Passing the misery on to your tenant is really a lovely thing to do and shows a complete lack of understanding about the risks you take. Nobody has a violin small enough for your problem. Landlords buying up property are the reason why I couldn't buy a place despite making a significant amount of money. I don't care about your problems if you are suffering because of your ownership of a second home. The CBC comment section will have more sympathy for you I am sure.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:05
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Stanley Pain posted:Let the person stay there for 2 more years while I eat poo poo? Yes JFC "Let" someone have a home
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Feb 1, 2023 04:07
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Stanley Pain posted:I don't think I was clear with my initial description. My bad. Let me rephrase. This isn't kicking someone with 0 notice. Okay, but you have an agreement, and they also made plans for three years, why should they upend their life after a year because of your judgment error? Maybe you should find a place to rent for two years until your agreement ends? The point is that there is no reason why the tenant should bear the risk for the landlord's mistakes. They entered an agreement in good faith, and they're paying their due to occupy the property. If your circumstances change, that doesn't become their problem, except of course the law says it does, and this is regularly abused to get people out of their homes to increase profitability. Lain Iwakura posted:Why is it that landlords (and even you, Stanley Pain) are so quick to whine whenever they endure misfortune? Passing the misery on to your tenant is really a lovely thing to do and shows a complete lack of understanding about the risks you take. This is it. And after the onslaught of tearjerkers from CBC and friends about people who were just shocked that their airbnb empires collapsed at the start of COVID, or the people with rental fiefdoms getting turbofucked by high interest rates, there seems to be a certain sense of entitlement on the part of landlords without any reciprocity for tenants. Landlording is a for-profit business, you take risks, you reap rewards. It's not fair if you don't actually take any risks for those rewards, now is it? infernal machines fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 04:07
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No. You see contracts must only benefit the parasite landlord!
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Feb 1, 2023 04:12
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Thanks for the answers. I think for me to have a clear conscience in this scenario would be letting that person stay for a month or two rent free. COPE 27 posted:Yes Not gonna happen under Capitalism unfortunately. Wake me up when we've eaten all the rich.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:12
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Stanley Pain posted:Does renting something mean someone has the moral right to stay there forever? You don't actually care about the morality of the situation, so don't ask something designed to deflect.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:14
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Stanley Pain posted:Not gonna happen under Capitalism unfortunately. Wake me up when we've eaten all the rich. Well, yeah, that's why these conversations are so unsatisfying.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:15
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Most landlords can't be hosed to replace a broken light switch but oh no they gently caress up and lose their second house because they're bad with money and it's off to the Sally Ann's with the tenants Especially funny because in the story that started this the landlord was lying. She did not need to move back into her house, she just wanted to relist the rental at double the price. My heart weeps.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:19
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infernal machines posted:Well, yeah, that's why these conversations are so unsatisfying. Here's some more fun news. I'll probably have to go on ODSP in a year. That'll be fun.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:20
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I'm sorry to hear that and I earnestly hope you have a stable and affordable living situation, because I know ODSP doesn't pay poo poo. My mother was on it for years and basically had $50 after rent each month for food.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:26
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Stanley Pain posted:Here's some more fun news. I'll probably have to go on ODSP in a year. That'll be fun. Why are you playing the Landlord Defence Force when you know how hosed it is out there I hope you don't get hosed over by a landlord like you seem to think is morally acceptable
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Feb 1, 2023 04:28
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COPE 27 posted:Why are you playing the Landlord Defence Force when you know how hosed it is out there Sometimes it's good to move your mind into spaces that are uncomfortable I guess. I know some folks here lean socialist/anti-capitalist so I was curious how I measured.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:38
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Get up against the wall and we'll tell you. Also, keep in mind that everyone in here is a Lib by cspam standards, so it's all relative.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:51
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Thought this was the PPC thread oops
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Feb 1, 2023 05:04
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Who doesn't like people, parties, or Canada?
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Feb 1, 2023 05:14
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This is canpol we don't like people, parties, or canadat
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Feb 1, 2023 06:02
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eXXon posted:Who doesn't like people, parties, or Canada? Every single person involved with the People's Party of Canada. COPE 27 posted:This is canpol we don't like people, parties, or canadat I like people and Canada, and would like them both to be better.
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Feb 1, 2023 06:04
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I like parties. 
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Feb 1, 2023 06:21
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infernal machines posted:If you need to live in the house, don't rent it out, it's very simple. If you want to be a landlord, roll the dice. This statement caught my eye because this is effectively no longer true in BC, or at least it's quite a bit more complex and the option to "don't rent it out" now comes with severe financial penalties. The Speculation Tax that was brought in a few years ago effectively forces everyone into becoming a landlord if they seek at all to avoid severe punitive taxes for leaving a property idle for more than six months. So I suppose the net result would be that anyone who really wants to avoid becoming a landlord is forced into selling their property when they have some life change that takes them away from it for more than six months. Not taking any stance for or against any of the sentiment behind this statement, just thought it was interesting that this is something where BC's legislation has made it an outlier here from everywhere else in a significant way. Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 06:49
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The landlord should try getting a job.
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Feb 1, 2023 07:07
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Stanley Pain posted:Does renting something mean someone has the moral right to stay there forever? It's basically the landlord making their home search the renter's problem. On one hand, it seems a little silly of a thought that a landlord can never stop being a landlord so long as they have a renter, but at the same time, why should this be the renter's problem if they had nothing to do with it? Like, reasonable forewarning or not, I still just come back to "why should this be the renter's problem?" Like, as much as I feel housing is a right, I can somewhat accept someone being evicted for non-payment, or being hostile, dangerous or disruptive to their neighbors. But to need to move for something that's not their fault? This is exactly why housing shouldn't be a commodity. Maybe there's a level of "make good" that I could see being an acceptable option to reclaiming a rental unit from a renter - but again, I still can see a scenario where the offering of relocation or pay-out still wouldn't make everyone happy, and it just goes back to "why is this burden placed on the renter."
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Feb 1, 2023 08:06
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Oxyclean posted:Maybe the topic is kind of already settled, but I feel in the case of a renter who has been paying rent, and is capable of continuing to pay rent, I can't help but feel like they deserve to keep the place more. That's my take too. If you've decided that this house is a rental, it's a rental. And let's remember, the person living there, this is their home - their shelter. It's immoral to unilaterally remove them from it just because they're paying money to an individual instead of a bank. The renter is presumably paying rent, so the owner can go rent somewhere else instead. Or sell the house to someone who wants to own a rental. Or pay off the tenants to leave. There are options here. Stuff like this is exactly why I wouldn't want to be a landlord.
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Feb 1, 2023 14:43
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Femtosecond posted:This statement caught my eye because this is effectively no longer true in BC, or at least it's quite a bit more complex and the option to "don't rent it out" now comes with severe financial penalties. We've just introduced a vacancy tax here in Toronto as well. I would say that's the entire point, actually. It's housing, we have a housing crisis, either someone is living there or you're paying to keep a valuable asset idle. If you can't live there you can sell it, or you can rent it, or you can pay the tax.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:00
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