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Surface Detail is great apart from the occasional references to pee and poo.
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Oct 6, 2021 03:34
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Just finished Matter - I understand people’s criticism, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. I do agree that the ending could have used some work, and while Holst becoming prime minister is fun the execution wasn’t great. I enjoyed seeing SC agents and drones absolutely wrecking poo poo, and I was a big fan of everyone dying! My only complaint here is that Tyl Loesp’s death should have been dragged out more. I thought the overall vibe was good fun similar to Player of Games.
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Nov 16, 2021 19:26
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I liked how multi layered (lol!) The title was as an organising metaphor.
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Nov 16, 2021 20:40
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I recommend Banks to everyone I can. His culture novels are perfect in every way, even the ones you don't like. There is not a single detail that he has written that is unnecessary. Especially the ending of Matter, he ends the story exactly the way he intended to. These are perfect novels. Only slightly joking.  On Matter: The ending had to be rushed there was an ancient murder bot reawakened making double time to murder the very planet the entire story revolves around. I remember thinking the ending happened pretty quick but I guess that depends on where you put the ending.... beginning? The iln awakening is huge and terrifying, but you don't really get the sense of the immediate urgency since it's a little bit early in the story and it's Sci-fi, crazy poo poo happens sometimes. I absolutely recommend a reread if you came away confused and horrified the first time. If anything the ending is drawn out as you have to include travel and logistics and such to get from the dig site to the core. I don't mean to say banks didn't rush this one but I rather think he planned this one more than people give him credit for. It's a huge loving twist and an immediate crisis that forces the plot to suddenly veer.
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Nov 17, 2021 23:26
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Would you say that, after the alien awoke, 99% of the plot didn't... Matter?
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Nov 18, 2021 00:23
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 gently caress yes I would if I were an idiot I only kind of like Matter but that's mostly because I need floating robots to constantly make quips, near constant drug use, and ships to be shooting something for a novel to be enjoyable. I won't settle for a novel where humans are constantly making quips, drugs are only sometimes used, and people are getting sworded. The scale of things in this novel is mind breaking.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:05
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sebmojo posted:Would you say that, after the alien awoke, 99% of the plot didn't... Matter? I want you to know that I appreciated this joke both times. down1nit posted:I recommend Banks to everyone I can. His culture novels are perfect in every way, even the ones you don't like. There is not a single detail that he has written that is unnecessary. Especially the ending of Matter, he ends the story exactly the way he intended to. These are perfect novels. Only slightly joking. I think it feels rushed because the entire plot is thrown out the window, and then the distribution of time between Travel and Logistics and Positioning and Combat seems off. Maybe a running gunfight the whole way with the iln, with confused Oct and friends getting caught in the middle, would have helped? That or have the ship get blown up while the main characters are there fighting instead of going "oops the ship just blew up, almost there aaaaaand oops we just blew up too". It might also be more jarring due to the Epilogue having such a different tone and (imo) being a poor companion to the novel. I guess there's a variety of ways it could have been different. I enjoyed the read overall but left the last part feeling let down and a quick search suggests many others did as well.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:48
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I always liked the ending to Matter, it's tragic and feels sad in a way that most of the other culture novels don't. You're seeing the people whose lives are upended by these great cosmic scale events, rather than just sitting from the gods' eye view.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:13
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To steal an old post of mine: Matter is deliberately extremely disorienting on the first read, because the whole point of the book is about how there's these different levels of peoples and civilisations at different powers, and suddenly things that you think are incredibly important can not matter at all to the people above you, and he builds that into every layer... the shells of the shellworld, the social strata of the characters, the civilisations of the universe... and ultimately, as it turns out, the narrative of the book itself, when suddenly a plot that's been brewing on a higher level that you're barely aware of drops in and sweeps aside every story that you thought mattered, to smack you with the same feeling that all these characters have been suffering.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:48
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Exactly.
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Nov 18, 2021 04:45
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Yeah feel free to repost that again in a few years.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:09
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MikeJF posted:To steal an old post of mine: Also, Ferbin and Holse are maybe the most likeable characters in the entire Culture series. They're hilarious. The epilogue has a completely different tone, for sure - but you can also read it as sad, just in a different way than the original story. Has Holse lost his perspective and suddenly become arrogant and quick to grab power? Did being temporarily embedded in the upper strata make him not know how to relate to the lower strata?
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Nov 18, 2021 07:22
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MikeJF posted:To steal an old post of mine: Exactly. I loving adore Matter and think it's top tier Culture. Also Musk being a Culture fan is hilarious not just for the obvious reasons but I mean you know, other than the fact to my knowledge no one has accused Musk of literal rape, he's otherwise pretty much Veppers from Surface Detail. Like, Musk isn't 'a villain from the Culture series' in abstract; he's legit straight up one of the villains from the books.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:34
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I tend to think of Veppers as being more Bezos, while Musk is the GFCF: trying to emulate them while totally missing the point and ending up just as terrible as Veppers.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:37
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Bezos is absolutely Veppers
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Nov 18, 2021 09:15
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Doesn't Bezos love the culture series too?
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Nov 18, 2021 12:46
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:
Libertarian billionaires liking for the Culture series makes a lot more sense when you realize they are taking the viewpoint of the Minds. Minds don’t merely own stuff by common consent or government fiat. They own stuff by it _being counted as part of their body_. That’s the same absolute inalienable property rights a billionaire feels about their money. They might let some people have use of it, if they are entertaining, but it remains theirs. The example of Sleeper Service shows that If a Mind and its human’s split up, the Mind keeps the ship. By author fiat, Minds actually are as smart as Musk thinks he is. Although, Banks being human, they are only written as being about as smart as he actually is.
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Nov 18, 2021 12:51
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MikeJF posted:To steal an old post of mine: I hadn’t considered this and it helps me appreciate the book more - thank you.
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Nov 18, 2021 19:26
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I am now through four Culture novels and I full heartedly believe that Flere-Imsaho is the best drone name.
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Nov 20, 2021 02:15
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:I am now through four Culture novels and I full heartedly believe that Flere-Imsaho is the best drone name. Skaffen-Amtiskaw supremacy over here though I also like Scopell-Afranqui (module, not a drone).
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Nov 20, 2021 05:40
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The most constantly endearing concept in these books is giving sentience to all sorts of things. I remember liking a spacesuit's sense of humor. Flere is best drone name though. Its the easiest to read in my head voice imo.
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Nov 20, 2021 07:29
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down1nit posted:The most constantly endearing concept in these books is giving sentience to all sorts of things. I remember liking a spacesuit's sense of humor. Genar-Hofoen's interactions with the suit are one of the many reasons Excession is my favorite Culture novel.
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Nov 21, 2021 14:19
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Checked to see if there was any news about THE CULTURE: NOTES AND DRAWINGS by Iain M. Banks and Ken MacLeod coming out since the last update about it in June 2021. Zero noise from Orbit Books about it, however did enjoy finding the Culture drawings that Iain M Banks made public. Definitely didn't expect what I found, on the other hand I now have way more respect for TRAVELLER RPG's ship deck drawings stuff. The embedded post attachment comes from http://www.fastness.co.uk/imb/ -the last image on that page
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Nov 30, 2021 03:51
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Nice, I hope that eventually comes out. That image inspired me to dig up my own hastily scribbled Limiting Factor, done in Sharpie and on a piece of already-used scrap paper (??), in 2012: Not too different! But that's one of the only ships described in detail. I think the overwhelming feedback the last time I posted it was "make it even more phallic." Also took the ROU design and made a 3D model and attempted a realistic/cinematic scene.  At least the names hold up, I think. Looking at these again makes me want to do updated versions, even my handwriting is vastly better now.
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Dec 1, 2021 06:37
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Prolonged Panorama posted:At least the names hold up, I think. Looking at these again makes me want to do updated versions, even my handwriting is vastly better now. Do it
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Dec 1, 2021 08:39
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i've never been able to visualize the GCU/GSV setups where iirc a big chunk of the volume is just maintained by force fields or something
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Dec 1, 2021 13:17
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shrike82 posted:i've never been able to visualize the GCU/GSV setups where iirc a big chunk of the volume is just maintained by force fields or something from amongst the very limited amount of Culture fanart, my favorite representation of this is the one in poster Gravitas Shortfall's av just stuff floating around wherever, no concessions to geology or gravity required
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Dec 1, 2021 13:46
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shrike82 posted:i've never been able to visualize the GCU/GSV setups where iirc a big chunk of the volume is just maintained by force fields or something Imagine a sphere of atmosphere held in place with opaque forcefields the size of a small moon. In the middle is something that looks like someone took a cross section of a futuristic city, covered the top surface with a park, and stuck on some outriggers (no I don't know what the outriggers are for). There's no sun inside the bright blue sky that it's floating in, just a glowing line that slowly moves around and dims on a set schedule. As well as the main vessel, the sphere of atmosphere is full of smaller ships, right down to the scale of personal transports / people wearing jetpacks. Basically, once you've mastered force field technology, you don't need an outer hull, the forcefield IS the outer hull. EDIT: This is one of my favourite depictions of a GSV even if it doesn't quite match the book description Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 14:58
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There's this mockup of what the Sleeper Service from Excession might look like too. https://theculture.fandom.com/wiki/Sleeper_Service?file=Sleeper01.jpg BTW I really wish more Culture books were on Kindle. IDK if I'll ever find the time/patience to actually read my paperback of Excession when compounded with the Mind chat logs that are frankly kind of difficult to parse. edit: I guess it's just Excession out of the actual Culture novels, but boy that's kind of annoying. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 16:46
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MikeJF posted:To steal an old post of mine: I enjoyed it on the first read but I am definitely looking forward to getting to this one when I inevitably re-read everything. Which I may start soon.
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Dec 2, 2021 22:29
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Nail Rat posted:There's this mockup of what the Sleeper Service from Excession might look like too. https://theculture.fandom.com/wiki/Sleeper_Service?file=Sleeper01.jpg That's a screenshot from this video: https://vimeo.com/184041325 Ambitious concept, middling execution, great music. Spot all your favorite ships! Plus those Mind chat logs you love. Plus some Alex Brady GSV noodling:     Full gallery here
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Dec 5, 2021 06:41
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that's cool but kinda looks like a tablet
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Dec 5, 2021 10:29
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Yeah I was never a fan of those renders, they're weirdly flat
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Dec 5, 2021 10:37
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They are but that's kinda what GSVs are according to the books. A Plate class, the 'standard' GSV we see most often, is 53x22x4 km in the physical body. The idea is meant to be they just look like a flying slab of surface, I think. Top to bottom it's about a km of habitation, 2km of ship space (eight general bays each about 16km³, the engineering space at the aft, many smaller bays, etc) and then the bottom quarter is just engine mass. Sides of the ship are festooned with terraces and balconies and things with the occasional punch-through entrance shaft Field size is generally about 90x60x20. (Huh, the physical body is almost the proportions of the Monolith, come to think of it. Not quite but almost.) Not a huge fan of the way those renders handle the edge and sides, I imagine the park going to the edge and spilling over with vegetation clinging to the side among all the balconies and waterfalls falling down, with all that giving way to visible side of the ship as you went further down. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 10:58
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MikeJF posted:They are but that's kinda what GSVs are according to the books. A Plate class, the 'standard' GSV we see most often, is 53x22x4 km in the physical body. The idea is meant to be they just look like a flying slab of surface, I think. I know, but there's something about the art that's not getting across the scale.
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Dec 5, 2021 11:20
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Well the MSV coming out (the white one) would only be a few km across but the landscape on top doesn't really match that. I've never seen a satisfying GSV depiction to my eyes, personally. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 11:23
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I've never imagined a GSV that has that much water on its top surface. I always pictured it like a slice of land rather than an island surrounded by a sea, except the "earth" part underneath is greebly sci-fi city stuff. In those images the top surface has a weirdly smooth white border keeping the water in, which adds to the "it looks like a tablet" feel.
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Dec 5, 2021 12:31
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Ah, that artist also did these kickin' rad concepts of Shai Hulud https://www.artstation.com/artwork/k4dzld Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 15:47
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Honestly, come to think about it, the thing that resembles what I get from his descriptions of a GSV the most is when I see people working on those tools where they extract a slice of terrain to work with.   Bang a few greebles and holes in the side, bam, GSV pretty much as Banks described it. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 06:22
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View inside the field bubble of a Systems-Class GSV E: y'know, I can't 3D model for poo poo but given the scales involved I bet I could just do one in Minecraft and you wouldn't even be able to tell. Generate terrain, slice out some chunks, modify the edges, render in Chunky. Oh this is a dangerous path, I've already got a project going. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 06:32
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