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Genghis Cohen posted:I agree and I think it's mostly an issue with the framing of all these stories. Every rulebook/codex/battletome has always had some little bit where they mention that the Chaos gods have positive aspects, e.g. Khorne can embody martial honour and Tzeentch hope and ambition. But ultimately they're the bad guys of the setting and they need to be cast as threatening and dark. So the metaphysical aspects tend to get lost under a wave of horrible evilness. Khorne is mentioned in recent AoS materials as not really caring about honour. Some Cultures worshiping him or one of his aspects may say he is honourable and believe it, but the actual god is not. Tzeentch treats hope meanwhile as more of a negative trait. As he wants people to hope for better things for them, and so dicks them around making sure they don’t get their ultimate goal, but still see it in reach.
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Jun 17, 2021 01:18
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I thought the whole thing with the chaos gods was it was always the worst thing about it. Tzeentch doesn't want a cruel tyrant deposed for the sake of the people, he just likes change. His agents work to foster said change regardless of whether it's a good idea or not, which likely would lead to more cruel tyrants. I think the only "nice" one is Nurgle, since everything I've read seems to say he genuinely, truly cares about his subjects. Nurgle's Rot might mutate you, but if you simply embrace the mutations, you're elevated to immortality and demonhood, something that isn't given as freely by the other three. We can all agree that the GHR is probably the biggest rear end in a top hat since he's the chaos god equivalent of a shitpost. I've always found it interesting that Orks aren't down with Khorne, and generally seem immune to any corruption from him.
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Jun 17, 2021 02:21
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There used to be orks down with Khorne, the other orks just kind of rolled their eyes and put it down as youthful rebellion.
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Jun 17, 2021 02:54
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Gork and Mork are the only true gods
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Jun 17, 2021 03:57
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I thought the whole thing with the chaos gods was it was always the worst thing about it. Tzeentch doesn't want a cruel tyrant deposed for the sake of the people, he just likes change. His agents work to foster said change regardless of whether it's a good idea or not, which likely would lead to more cruel tyrants. Well to be exact Tzeentch would empower people with ambition to overthrow the cruel tyrant, but would manipulate things so none of his the people he aided could replace them, but still keep that goal technically possible for his followers so their ambition does not die out. Nurgle as I have seen more on him, is basically an abuser of his followers. The Plaugebearers created by Nurgle Rot are not the same as the people that were infected even if they embrace the change. For his mortal servants generally they are people infected by a disease, and Nurgle offers them a deal, relief from their pain in exchange for spreading his diseases to even more people he can offer the same bargain to, and allows them to find the comfort in their despair as they realize their struggles were pointless, they would have been part of the cycle anyway. If his followers stop spreading plague then he will take away the relief and comfort they have now. Orcs are generally not down with Khorne cause the nuance is different. AoS mentioned that Gorkamorka got a fair number of human worshipers, but most of them fall to Khorne worship as they lacked the subtler understanding of Gorkamorka’s nature. One of the primary things is that Gorkamorka just wants his followers to fight good, he does not really care how they do so. The Orcs understand this and enjoy the acting of fightin for fightin's sake. Khorne meanwhile is all about the bloodshed, hate, and rage. The orcs don't care about those things, they don't feel hate towards the people they are fighting, heck they tend to like people that give them a challenge.
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Jun 17, 2021 04:42
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This is probably a goofy question, but what's a good starting army for someone on a budget? Not looking to be particularly competitive, but I've been wanting to play casually for a while. Slightly leaning towards elves of all varieties.
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Jun 17, 2021 06:12
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Flesh-eater Courts and Ogor Mawtribes/Beastclaw Raiders are pretty notorious for being able to make good 1000pt lists out of a pair of Start Collecting boxes.
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Jun 17, 2021 08:26
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I'd also say stormcast are pretty cost effective. The SCE half of the new box will be 1300pts of models for not much through buy swap sell or ebay and then you can just throw in some of the always available sequitors for 1500 and play decent sized games for a couple hundo.
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Jun 17, 2021 09:17
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Flesh-eater Courts and Ogor Mawtribes/Beastclaw Raiders are pretty notorious for being able to make good 1000pt lists out of a pair of Start Collecting boxes. I'd love to see what those lists look like, even if it's a 2nd ed one rather than 3rd. Particularly the Beastclaw Raiders.
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Jun 17, 2021 09:24
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I've actually been looking a cheapish ways to start a new army, despite having too many armies already and no-one in my group really wants to play 3rd ed, so I'm going for pug games and tournies alone  Anyway, Outside double box of flesh-eater courts and beast claw raiders already mentioned; Ogres can make a fairly cheap (by GW/hobby standards) 1000 point army, even without using the beast claw raiders start collecting. 1 tyrant, 1 butcher, 2 x ironguts boxes and 1 glutton box and it's about 1000 points for not much more than 2 start collecting beast claw boxes. It's not a bad start for an foot ogre army either. Add some more iron guts, a slaughter master, a couple of lead belchers, maybe the beast grave warband + some random man-eaters for the rule of cool and it's a fun and not awful 2000 point army. Or add a single beast claw raider box for cavalry oomf. Obviously not going to win many tournaments, but it's AOS so it's mainly janky and gimmicky lists that win tournaments anyway. The meatgrinder warglutt battleforce box might still be out there somewhere. It was like an amazing and "cheap" start for non-beast claw ogres imo. 1 box of flesh-eaters + 1 box of ghouls + 1 abhorrant archregent is cheaper than two start collecting boxes and makes a decent 1000 points. Except you need to wait till one of your units dies until you can use the archregent ability. Add another SC box ontop of this+ a vargulf or something, eventually and you got a pretty decent army. I also kinda like 2 daughters of khaine boxes, even if it's a little weird. You only get 10 snake ladies, so you'd need an extra box of 5 if you want 3 battle line units (at a 1000 points you only need two though irrc), and maybe the new ironscale melusai. Eventually more snake ladies are needed. You can kinda hack the boxes a little, and get an avatar on top of the shrine and with some clever magnetization, you got a lot of options for hag queen on foot or on the shrine and so on. If you don't like snake ladies, it's not the way to go. My least favorite, that still kinda works, is 2 of the new soul blight start collecting boxes. It's also around 1000+ points, and while the black knights are terrible currently, that might change, and the 20 grave guard from each box is quite cool. Main problem is that you'd have to add a bunch of extra pretty pricy stuff to have a good and/or interesting army and you don't need two horse wights.
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Jun 17, 2021 10:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:Orcs are generally not down with Khorne cause the nuance is different. AoS mentioned that Gorkamorka got a fair number of human worshipers, but most of them fall to Khorne worship as they lacked the subtler understanding of Gorkamorka’s nature. One of the primary things is that Gorkamorka just wants his followers to fight good, he does not really care how they do so. The Orcs understand this and enjoy the acting of fightin for fightin's sake. Khorne meanwhile is all about the bloodshed, hate, and rage. The orcs don't care about those things, they don't feel hate towards the people they are fighting, heck they tend to like people that give them a challenge. This is indeed a big difference between orcs and chaos, in that Orcs thinks of fighting as something that brings joy and they genuinly believe both sides to be enjoying themselves. That's one of the things that makes them utterly non-human, this almost childlike glee for violence that has no hatred built into it. Khorne, meanwhile, would enjoy a one-sided slaughter of civilians just as much as a fair fight.
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Jun 17, 2021 13:02
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There was a book in the Soul Wars (I think) series where you get the perspective of a Khorne Reaver. And Jesus that was a mind-gently caress. You "embrace" Khorne by, among other things, becoming a cannibal out of self-preservation. Like if they capture your group, they might keep a few people alive, and if these captives will eat the flesh of their fallen friends then the Reavers take them in. At first you fake it but then you develop a Stockholm's syndrome I guess and embrace it. Orruks don't do any of that poo poo. They bash your head in and move on. They're not evil, I think, just completely nuts and "fight-thirsty" (more than "blood-thirsty", if that makes sense). They get bloody because they fight, but they don't fight because they want blood.
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Jun 17, 2021 13:46
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Furism posted:There was a book in the Soul Wars (I think) series where you get the perspective of a Khorne Reaver. And Jesus that was a mind-gently caress. You "embrace" Khorne by, among other things, becoming a cannibal out of self-preservation. Like if they capture your group, they might keep a few people alive, and if these captives will eat the flesh of their fallen friends then the Reavers take them in. At first you fake it but then you develop a Stockholm's syndrome I guess and embrace it. That was the very first book in AoS, Gates of Azyr. That guy did end up getting turned into a Khorgorath, IIRC.
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Jun 17, 2021 16:27
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Was this the guy everyone cited as the only relatable character in early AoS fiction? edit: saw some GHB leaks and RIP using marked chaos warriors as battleline in my Tzeentch and Slaanesh armies 
Der Waffle Mous fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 17, 2021 |
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Jun 17, 2021 17:09
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New GHB with the new points for all factions, increases all around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGwGjNBBwk
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Jun 18, 2021 00:32
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Soulblight's exactly the same save for Cursed City Radukar and only Radukar now being available by himself. Also someone posted the endless spells updates and there were definitely some choices that were made.
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Jun 18, 2021 00:42
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I'm actually upset that Hedonites got yet another points increase, Hedonites units were already horribly overcosted and piling more points on their units just makes one of the weakest armies in the game even weaker
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Jun 18, 2021 00:52
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I can't believe Katakros went down 30 points for OBR. Let's hope we see some changes for their discipline points.
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Jun 18, 2021 00:56
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Was this the guy everyone cited as the only relatable character in early AoS fiction? Nah I remember him, he was just a minor villain. Furism posted:There was a book in the Soul Wars (I think) series where you get the perspective of a Khorne Reaver. And Jesus that was a mind-gently caress. You "embrace" Khorne by, among other things, becoming a cannibal out of self-preservation. Like if they capture your group, they might keep a few people alive, and if these captives will eat the flesh of their fallen friends then the Reavers take them in. At first you fake it but then you develop a Stockholm's syndrome I guess and embrace it. Doing the ritual cannibalism willing allows Khorne to start grasping at your soul, and they slowly become fully devoted. And to be exact this is how the Goretide the largest Khornate group in the Realms recruits extra members. The whole capturing some people then giving them the offer of eating people and joining the band, or being killed and getting eaten by the people that accept.
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Jun 18, 2021 01:10
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I will absolutely march 2 units of 60 clan rats up the board. I cannot think of a better way to visually depict a cry for help from my painting table. Skaven look really good, though I'm surprised that both Stormvermin and Plague Monks got capped at 30.
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Jun 18, 2021 01:20
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Wonder how Maggotkin is gonna fare now that huge walls of Blightkings aren't gonna be a thing. I hope the answer is not fixing it by taking a bunch of Plaguebearers instead, because god that kit looks terrible compared to how incredible the Blightking sculpts are and I really liked how you could either go in a demon or "human" direction with the army. It would be cool if Pusgoyles became more popular though. Also looks like my hopes of Gloomspite being decent are probably not gonna pan out lol, they absolutely did not need any point increases and Squig Herd point costs almost doubling is nuts. Maybe Troggoths will finally be alright though at least?
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Jun 18, 2021 04:53
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Squig Herd minimum unit size also went to 12. Still paying 20 over what you were before though.
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Jun 18, 2021 05:48
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Seems like the base increase in general is 10 points for units, 5 for heroes, a lot more for named heroes. Everything else is balance adjustment.
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Jun 18, 2021 05:52
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Looking over at my 6 morsarr guard and sweating, wondering how to tell them that I can't afford them any more and they'll have to move out
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Jun 18, 2021 07:53
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Lol I'm watching the goobertown unboxing for dominion. He's a good man.
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Jun 18, 2021 08:21
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Was this the guy everyone cited as the only relatable character in early AoS fiction? If you are just looking for cheap asses to sit in Battleline seats, you can now take 10 Marauders for 90. E: Oh gently caress allied Battleline no longer count, that is dumb as gently caress, rip my 80% Slaves Khorne army I guess Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 08:59
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Not as good as his cursed city effort but not bad. Edit whoops kill team pariah nexus I mean Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 08:59
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JBP posted:Lol I'm watching the goobertown unboxing for dominion. He's a good man. He's completely right, I have no idea what the purpose of unboxing videos is. I mean, yes, the box contains... what it is supposed to contain? And on the website I can see the same minis painted, but here I can see someone holding up the sprues close to a webcam? Yay?
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Jun 18, 2021 09:20
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Actually are we sure marked Slaves units don't count as being in-faction amymore? They have the appropriate keyword. Because If they don't then nobody except Slaves can take Archaon anymore. This and the battleline thing would invalidate a huge number of Chaos armies which doesnt feel like something they'd do.
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Jun 18, 2021 09:37
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...8NkMlMxg0O7njaw
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Jun 18, 2021 13:01
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Sure am glad I can throw my pestilins army straight onto the shelf dumpster
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Jun 18, 2021 13:27
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I find it amusing that Sisters of the Watch are one of the more expensive Battleline units in the game, period, that isn't weird poo poo like a tank or a monster. They are really good though, and they can shoot a hilarious amount of times in the charge phase under the new rules.
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Jun 18, 2021 13:37
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I guess I can understand Be'lakor getting a point change, but Kragnos just released not even a full month ago. And got a hefty point cut, too.
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Jun 18, 2021 13:39
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Just assume it's because of the pandemic throwing huge wrenches in the release schedule gears. It's safe to assume that he was meant to be around in the game for far longer than what happened.
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Jun 18, 2021 13:45
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I’m a little unsure what the driving principle behind the points changes is? I guess all monsters got more expensive, which makes sense with the new rules. There seems to be other things going on. Like, it looks like one of the principles is: ‘gently caress, tzeentch in particular, gently caress skaven, gently caress khorne, gently caress ogres, also gently caress gloomspite. Oh and haha, no we won’t stop even though he is clearly already dead, gently caress beasts of chaos’.
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Jun 18, 2021 13:52
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For what its worth, The Doomwheel is now a behemoth. This means by doing doughnuts on your sacred terrain, I can destroy them. I appreciate this. Edit: Ack, I'm wrong. You need to be a monster as well. Boo Crazy Ferret fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 14:25
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lilljonas posted:He's completely right, I have no idea what the purpose of unboxing videos is. I mean, yes, the box contains... what it is supposed to contain? And on the website I can see the same minis painted, but here I can see someone holding up the sprues close to a webcam? Yay? It's extra funny because he actually built the models and used a decent enough camera to show them off while rotating. The orcs looks good as hell.
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Jun 18, 2021 14:54
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Batreps with the new rules have starting to pop up on YouTube and Twitch, they look quite fun with the new reactions, smaller maps, and abilities. We'll have to see what the new points do, but it looks like they did it to compensate for the smaller map.
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Jun 18, 2021 15:10
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Geisladisk posted:Actually are we sure marked Slaves units don't count as being in-faction amymore? They have the appropriate keyword. Marked Slave units and the 1 in 4 Cities thing is now covered by Coalition rules. Coalition units work normally for everything as part of your faction, but can’t be taken as battleline. E: oddly, Har Kuron appears to have both Coalition Daughters and allied Daughters, so you can run half your army Daughters I guess? 
Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 15:14
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So based on conversations I've had with 3 different LGS' (2 in neighboring states), it sounds like the Dominion release is going to be another shitshow. Each of them got the same allotment of 15 boxes for release day, another 15 in the second week of August and they've then been promised "a ton" of boxes before the end of the year. Apparently we all missed the asterisk next to GW's statement that there would be "a huge number of boxes available," because while that's technically true, it turns out that the great majority of those won't actually be turning up until Christmas.
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