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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


The Switch thread has suffered enough.

This is the thread for arguing about whether weapon durability in Breath of the Wild is good or bad. If you argue about that anywhere else you'll be told to post about it here instead.

Moderators reserve the right to randomly 6er anyone who posts in this thread because their posting weapon broke. By posting in this thread you forfeit the right to get mad about joke 6ers.

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Mega64
May 23, 2008



I think weapon durability is

Mega64
May 23, 2008



Sorry, my post broke.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011




Pork Pro

Itís good, all weapons are disposable. Just throw them and pick up new ones itís fine.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


hatty posted:

Itís good, all weapons are disposable. Just throw them and pick up new ones itís fine.

Pladdicus
Aug 13, 2010

"Sometimes life is too uncertain to have regrets."

use a weapon, let it break, find a new one. the world is big, the weapons are there. use them, my friend.

i like this weapon, but someday it will break. letting go is key to moving forward.

Mega64
May 23, 2008



In a perfect world we wouldnít need weapons and they would all break on their own.

Breath of the Wild is commentary on what the world should be.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

Mega64 posted:

I think weapon durability is

a valuable tool in the toolbox of game design elements, which can be used to craft fun experiences if used well, like any other game design element

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

watching people lose their minds over armsthrift in fire emblem awakening was very funny. They would just go apeshit over a skill that meant they had to buy one less weapon at their next shopping trip.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

The hell is this?



Fallen Rib

Weapon durability in BotW is never a big deal because the game is incredibly generous with weapons. If your current weapon broke, chances are you have several duplicates in your inventory, or you are a short distance away from a chest that has one. You are never without a weapon when you need one, and ultimately the itemization revolves around durability to the point where you basically need to change it completely if you decide to turn it off.

However, I do recognize that the psychology of knowing your weapon can break can cause mental blocks in quite a few people, to the point where they can't enjoy the game. And while I do not understand it, I respect it.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

I enjoyed that treasure chests could actually have rewards I wanted in them, which is something many games fail at. A weapon in a chest didn't need to be better than my current weapon to be a good find, and that was an important, load-bearing pillar of what made botw fun. You'd have to come up with something else to take its place if you changed it

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


Weapon durability should be a difficulty option you toggle on or off at any time

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





I don't own a switch and have no opinion but I do know that anyone who disagrees with me is a god drat moron

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

I will probably dive into my first go at BOTW after I finish my playthroughs of the original FFVII, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Trials of Mana, and Guild Wars 2 Living Seasons 4 & 5.

Weapon durability is cool.

ScootsMcSkirt
Oct 29, 2013





weapon durability in most games can be a massive pain in the rear end cause they usually just slap that system in seemingly without considering knock-on effects. Its mostly a busy-work tax that makes the player take time and resources so that the weapons that they worked hard for dont become useless after a set period of time. They dont want the player replacing the weapons with new ones, but instead want to inconvenience them for going too long without returning to home base or spending currency or crafting resources

but they didnt do that in BOTW because theres no way to repair any weapons. Every weapon, with a few exceptions, is meant to be broken and easily replaced. Almost every enemy drops new weapons when defeated so running out of swords should never be a concern outside of the early-game or specific challenges. Instead of forcing the player to go back to town to repair their favorite gear, they instead are pushed to explore new areas and look for chests that will hopefully contain new weapons.

There are a ton of different looking weapons that also provide a bit of flavor as well, which is far from unique for this kind of game but the difference is that a typical player might actually use most of them in a playthrough. This is because the game pushes players to use almost any weapon they get their hands on, even or sometimes especially, if its not as good as the other weapons they have. This gracefully avoids a super common issue in openworld games where theres no reason to ever use a weapon that does even slightly less damage than the weapon one is using

i very much like the system, but at the same time I dont trust most other developers to implement similar systems in their games because there is a lot more going on thats not very apparent with how BOTW handles it.

PenguinKnight
Apr 6, 2009





throwing a nearly broken sword at a bokoblin is fun

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


Mega64 posted:

In a perfect world we wouldnít need weapons and they would all break on their own.

Breath of the Wild is commentary on what the world should be.

Empty?

quote:

Weapon durability is cool.

It is, though BotW's implementation is not

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002





There is not much more satisfying in BoTW than throwing a weapon into an enemy's face and having it splash into dozens of glowing blue fragments and knocking them on their rear end, then pulling out another weapon and whaling on their prone body.

I fukkin' love it.

Adam Bowen
Jan 6, 2003

This post probably contains a Rickroll link!


it's bad

Sharkitten
Jan 14, 2010



Weapon durability is gay and so am I

Long-Time Lurker
May 20, 2021


OG Resident Evil taught me to never use my herbs and ammo until the very end, at which point I'd feel silly for having a poo poo tonne of health and weapon reserve that's never going to be used again.

BotW taught me every weapon is disposable because you're just going to find new, equally powerful ones soon enough.

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

Old school? New school?
Shit, I didn't go to school



it sucks. but the game is good anyway

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.


I like it. Nintendo knows how to make systems I at best tolerate in other games seem really good.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

OUR SIDE HAS TO WIN


BotW low durability is fine but I would bump it up 20% if I could.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

it would have been better if you could buy or craft weapons

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

also it would have been better if the master sword recharged durability any time you weren't in combat, not just after it broke, because exploring for 15 minutes and then having it break on the first swing of combat sucked. yes this was important enough to doublepost.

ScootsMcSkirt
Oct 29, 2013





Muscle Tracer posted:

it would have been better if you could buy or craft weapons

I have good news then

TheHoosier
Dec 30, 2004

The fuck, Graham?!



it sucks

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



cheetah7071 posted:

I enjoyed that treasure chests could actually have rewards I wanted in them, which is something many games fail at. A weapon in a chest didn't need to be better than my current weapon to be a good find, and that was an important, load-bearing pillar of what made botw fun. You'd have to come up with something else to take its place if you changed it

i was almost never glad to find a weapon in a chest. my inventory was almost always full so either the weapon wasnt as good and i'd just leave it there or it was as good or better and i'd have to do some inventory management. i was almost more excited to find armor or even guardian cores. the inventory management is really my main issue with weapon durability. its interesting at first but after a certain point it just becomes busywork


also going on a tangent here but i would like stasis a lot better if hitting an object frozen with it didnt damage your weapon

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Link shouldnt be violent in the first place. He was asleep for 100 years and then just comes in and acts like he owns the place with no context of the history. It seems like everyone around Hyrule is co-existing peacefully. Like yeah, those "enemies" are going to attack you, Link waltz into an area with violent intent, they are defending themselves. Just don't have weapons!

Zosologist
Mar 30, 2007


Itís good because it makes the combat more dynamic by pushing you out of your comfort zone and forcing you to engage with other systems in a semi random manner.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


ScootsMcSkirt posted:

but they didnt do that in BOTW because theres no way to repair any weapons. Every weapon, with a few exceptions, is meant to be broken and easily replaced. Almost every enemy drops new weapons when defeated so running out of swords should never be a concern outside of the early-game or specific challenges. Instead of forcing the player to go back to town to repair their favorite gear, they instead are pushed to explore new areas and look for chests that will hopefully contain new weapons.

I think this is key to the whole thing. I have my issues with the durability system, but I think what made it work at all was that you couldn't repair weapons. If you could, I think it would very quickly turn into a chore where you feel compelled to go to a town or checkpoint of some sort to repair your good stuff on a regular basis.

Instead, they're fully disposable. They're ammunition. You use them, they break, you pick up something else.

The biggest issues come from the general lack of weapon variety, so the system doesn't shine as much as it should, and inflated endgame enemy health pushing you really hard to stock up on high-damage weapons instead of just using bombs and whatever weapons you can find. The core idea of the system, though, is I think worth iterating on, and it's a balance issue more than anything.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


I could barely deal with the irritating durability system that didn't encourage me to experiment or whatever and just encouraged me to turn the game off, but it was also mixed with the stamina being stingy as gently caress (yeah you could get more stamina as the game went on, I didn't play far enough to get any meaningful difference). It would've been one thing if stamina was only tied to climbing, but it also being tied to running sucked. And it wasn't just simply, you run out of stamina, you go back to normal speed while it recharges. You hit a fatigue state. Hated that! I hit a fatigue state in real life after 2 seconds, I don't need that poo poo following me into video games!!!

They should give Link the rocket shoes form Ratchet and Clank.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Durability isn't the problem it's the combat.

Combat in BotW is as fun as you want to make it, but ultimately, if you're trying to just win and get on with your life, it's just fastest to spin-to-win or flurry rush your way to victory. Seeing as the rewards for fighting aren't interesting, that the weapon types you get aren't particularly complex, and that all your fights become very repetitive very fast, it's just far easier and more interesting to skip it when you can. If you don't fight your weapons won't break so who cares about durability.

tuo
Jun 17, 2016





Weapons in BotW are just like Joycons, actually. Send them back to Nintendo once they are hosed and use the new ones you get.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




Weapon durability in any game doesn't add anything to the gameplay other than the tedium of Yet Another Resource To Manage.

It doesn't make things more difficult, it makes things more annoying, thus, it shouldn't be in games

I don't really care that "you can just pick up another weapon". I don't want to use that weapon, I want to use this one

100YrsofAttitude posted:

If you don't fight your weapons won't break so who cares about durability.

"I don't drive so who cares about gas prices"

External Organs
Mar 3, 2006

A cheerful person, he is known as the king of vulgarities (cursing?)

When they break you should've been able to take the chunks, throw them into the cooking pot with other ingredients and make real weird poo poo.

Mr Phillby
Apr 8, 2009

~TRAVIS~

I liked that while there were a billion weapons I actually picked used most of them instead of lugging them to a shop and selling them all.

I liked keeping specialized weapons for different purposes and having to plan around them possibly breaking.

In the early game i had this rad flaming sword that I kept for ages because just having it equiped topped up my heat gauge and let me explore snowy areas before i had the right gear.

I can see why people may find it annoying but like if you had just accepted that weapons are impermanent items and chilled out you would have had a great time y'know. Its like getting mad at the power pills in pac man for running out or that guns require ammo in shooters. It is what it is, roll with it.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


cheetah7071 posted:

watching people lose their minds over armsthrift in fire emblem awakening was very funny. They would just go apeshit over a skill that meant they had to buy one less weapon at their next shopping trip.

Armsthrift is huge in Awakening. Forged Brave swords cost an arm and a leg and a character without armsthrift can get through two or three in a single map.

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Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


GreenBuckanneer posted:

Weapon durability in any game doesn't add anything to the gameplay other than the tedium of Yet Another Resource To Manage.

It doesn't make things more difficult, it makes things more annoying, thus, it shouldn't be in games

I would argue resource management, as a general statement, is a perfectly valid difficulty lever. It does, in fact, make things more difficult if your strongest weapons are also a sharply limited resource.

I think BotW doesn't really use the system the way it could--greater weapon variety and less enemy health inflation would go a long way towards making improvisation more fun and more viable--but I think that is a balance issue more than anything and could be solved in a sequel without removing the durability system.

The greatest mistake would be making weapons repairable, because that would change them from an expendable resource into a thing to be maintained.

External Organs posted:

When they break you should've been able to take the chunks, throw them into the cooking pot with other ingredients and make real weird poo poo.

This would be fun

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