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CptWedgie posted:Can any Harsh Language users cuss enemies out hard enough to kill them? (Would not put it past a mod to do this...) Of course. It does -10 damage, and is usually on units with poor strength to begin with, but if it can overcome that penalty and pierce armour, it can do damage. In theory. That said there is an exclusive item for the Regular Army that makes a certain subset of harsh language users do a Lot more damage, maybe we'll see it.
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Jul 24, 2021 03:29
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BaronOhShi posted:Of course. It does -10 damage, and is usually on units with poor strength to begin with, but if it can overcome that penalty and pierce armour, it can do damage. In theory. So... basically, yes, but only if you stack a lot of Strength bonuses? Enough so that you'd usually be better off just giving the units that have it a different weapon (preferably armor-ignoring) to attack with instead if they're forced to fight?
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Jul 24, 2021 11:03
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CptWedgie posted:So... basically, yes, but only if you stack a lot of Strength bonuses? Enough so that you'd usually be better off just giving the units that have it a different weapon (preferably armor-ignoring) to attack with instead if they're forced to fight? Open ended rolls that can theoretically stack forever means technically you could one shot a doom horror with harsh language.
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Jul 24, 2021 11:05
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AtomikKrab posted:Open ended rolls that can theoretically stack forever means technically you could one shot a doom horror with harsh language. obligatory 
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Jul 24, 2021 11:35
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AtomikKrab posted:Open ended rolls that can theoretically stack forever means technically you could one shot a doom horror with harsh language. From context, I'm guessing this translates to "you can one-shot Cthulhu by insulting him in just the right way." I mean, I obviously don't know what a "doom horror" is, but it sounds like Cthulhu would fit right in.
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Jul 24, 2021 12:13
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CptWedgie posted:From context, I'm guessing this translates to "you can one-shot Cthulhu by insulting him in just the right way." I mean, I obviously don't know what a "doom horror" is, but it sounds like Cthulhu would fit right in.
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Jul 24, 2021 13:38
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Zereth posted:No, there's a faction where you can play cthulhus and related. Doom Horrors are things that eat gods. I meant the standard "his mere presence destroys and/or irrevocably corrupts the world" depiction of Cthulhu (which wouldn't really make a good faction for a strategy game, because they'd just show up, say "you saw me so you are now irrevocably insane, which I will use to turn you into my mindless puppet" and insta-win every game ever). So... basically, cosmic horrors rather than gods. (And no, I didn't realize that there was a faction where you play as Cthulhu cultists; you should realize this sort of thing by now.)
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Jul 24, 2021 14:33
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CptWedgie posted:I meant the standard "his mere presence destroys and/or irrevocably corrupts the world" depiction of Cthulhu (which wouldn't really make a good faction for a strategy game, because they'd just show up, say "you saw me so you are now irrevocably insane, which I will use to turn you into my mindless puppet" and insta-win every game ever). So... basically, cosmic horrors rather than gods. (And no, I didn't realize that there was a faction where you play as Cthulhu cultists; you should realize this sort of thing by now.) That’s all exactly what the Rl’yeh faction does. Their dominion causes units to go insane and/or die at a rapid clip. They also have the ability to summon extra dimensional void beings and other hijinx. They’re usually banned from multiplayer because of how toxic and game ruining their dominion is to everyone else, along with the undead empire that just kills everything in its dominion. That said, there are different beings that still eat them from beyond, like the aforementioned horrors.
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Jul 24, 2021 15:19
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CptWedgie posted:(which wouldn't really make a good faction for a strategy game, because they'd just show up, say "you saw me so you are now irrevocably insane, which I will use to turn you into my mindless puppet" and insta-win every game ever). this is literally LA R'leyh, yeah
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Jul 24, 2021 15:45
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Except for the winning the game part.
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Jul 24, 2021 15:49
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Making everyone else quit because of your DOM is a kind of winning
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Jul 24, 2021 15:52
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Slaan posted:Making everyone else quit because of your DOM is a kind of winning Is it really?
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Jul 24, 2021 16:26
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True. The only way to win dominions is not to play. Winners get out after early game and the true losers play until the end with hour long turns 
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Jul 24, 2021 16:28
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being banned from most games is the winningest thing a faction can be
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Jul 24, 2021 17:10
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The thing about LA R'lyeh is that it isn't even a particularly strong nation - it's just a miserable experience for most people around it as well as the person playing it... unless their neighbor is LA Atlantis, in which case Atlantis will cheerfully murder them and take all their territory. The problems are that: they've got a popkill domain, but most of their good stuff still costs gold to purchase and upkeep; the madness domain makes it hard to reliably get into off-nation paths, since those mages go insane fast; and their freespawn chaff is complete trash even compared to the freespawn the other popkill nations get (undead are of course far superior, and even manikins are better), a fair chunk of it is aquatic - and thus completely worthless if you finish conquering the water... oh, and all your garbage freespawn COST UPKEEP. In a nation where you desperately need every gold piece you can get to bring out your powerful mages, you're getting a constant hit to your income by a double drain of popkill and the massive amounts of freespawn appearing and adding their upkeep. Compare and contrast with the other major LA popkill nation, Lemuria. Who are incredibly strong (probably top 3) and have none of those problems - other than a slight weakness to Atlantis as well. R'lyeh basically just gets banned for being both a popkill and underwater nation, both of which tend to be popular ban targets, rather than its personal strength. Generally MA R'lyeh, which has many of the same strengths but basically none of the significant weaknesses, is the most well-regarded of that nation line.
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Jul 24, 2021 18:10
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my dad posted:Except for the winning the game part. I won a Pankor System game as LA R'lyeh the other week.  Also yeah LA R'lyeh kind of sucks rear end. I think I would absolutely, if i had to rework them, scrap their insanity/popkill dom, remove the void gate, and instead give them a number of summons spells for reliably bringing their weird horrors to the world, since that's where a LOT of their actual military power is, so they're very RNG-dependent. Perhaps keep them getting freespawn cultists and stuff still, though, and perhaps having their dom cause +Magic,+Turmoil,+Sloth sites to spawn or something to represent the mad cultists taking over provinces and making them useless for anything but staring at the stars and drooling. Lemuria also sucks rear end, though. Anything with magic weapons or astral magic can kill them pretty easily, unless people are dumb enough to let them survive to get the Rigor Mortis + Darkness + Quagmire trifecta researched, and even then they kind of suck because... they're in the Late Era with tons of heavy armor but their units still have attack damage values that would be shameful in the Early Age. They have an INCREDIBLY hard time actually killing something. I would say that LA R'lyeh, LA Lemuria and LA Mictlan are probably the three weakest Late Age nations.
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Jul 24, 2021 19:32
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CptWedgie posted:I meant the standard "his mere presence destroys and/or irrevocably corrupts the world" depiction of Cthulhu (which wouldn't really make a good faction for a strategy game, because they'd just show up, say "you saw me so you are now irrevocably insane, which I will use to turn you into my mindless puppet" and insta-win every game ever). So... basically, cosmic horrors rather than gods. (And no, I didn't realize that there was a faction where you play as Cthulhu cultists; you should realize this sort of thing by now.) Doom Horrors don't actually do much sticking around and ruining things, they show up, turbomurder something, and leave for the most part. And even if the target survives, they'll get a permanent status effect which makes doom horrors more likely to randomly turn up.
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Jul 24, 2021 21:49
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Zereth posted:No, I didn't say "cthulhu cultists". You can literally play Cthulhu And Friends as a faction, as has been mentioned. you can legit play the king in yellow, mother hydra or yog sothoth as a pretender chassis. sick as hell
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Jul 24, 2021 23:05
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PurpleXVI posted:
They... don't need that combo whatsoever though? Sure magic weapons chew through ghosts, but how many nations in LA innately get large numbers of them? Aside from Atlantis, it generally comes down to taking a Magic Weapon bless, except not all nations have decent sacreds for that in the first place, and even with decent, massable ones it's still a build point tax that you're basically forced to take - meaning you're already being forced to react to them. And even with that, they come in huge numbers which is perfectly fine against non-magical weapon stuff - like during expansion. And unlike R'lyeh, which you can generally just lock in their fishbowl to starve, you generally have to eventually engage with Lemuria and their hellish terrain since it's a land nation. But going back to the "how effective they are" point, even ignoring that hordes of Ethereal chaff is still perfectly usable against many nations and indies, what makes Lemuria so dangerous are the thugs and mages - the cheap, easily accessible Immortal ones. What easy answers do most nations have early on to a couple Consuls with a proper thug bless, wielding Enchanted Pikes or the like? Hell, you're a nation that doesn't give a poo poo about scales - take that Awe/Fear bless you always wanted! Sure, they alone won't take forts, but they're incredibly hard to stop raiders, and even if you do stop them, they're back in 3 months - added on to this, they've got one of the most dangerous base game heroes in the game who's also immortal... and getting him is likely since Luck 3 is pretty common for them. Mid/late game, teleporting Grand Lemurs can easily dump Winds of Death or any number of other miserable spells on large armies and not give a poo poo about whether they die or not unless you actually manage to land a Soul Slay effect (not an easy task). So yes, the ghostly chaff itself isn't super strong - though it's still perfectly usable in any number of situations - but even when it's not great their point is to cover the battlefield tying things up while your thugs and mages do the actual killing.
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Jul 24, 2021 23:39
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In JBBM lemur consuls and grand lemurs are dominion-immortal rather than just immortal which makes them much less useful as offensive weapons. they're still effective in the appropriate circumstances but the ability to use them as consequence-free raiders / army-killers is gone; you need to either actually support them on the attack and also accept that their deaths are meaningful, use them purely on the defence, or have extremely strong dompush.
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Jul 25, 2021 01:18
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Lord Koth posted:Mid/late game, teleporting Grand Lemurs can easily dump Winds of Death or any number of other miserable spells on large armies and not give a poo poo about whether they die or not unless you actually manage to land a Soul Slay effect (not an easy task).  ??
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Jul 25, 2021 01:46
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Nods sombrely
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Jul 25, 2021 02:18
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Same root word, amusingly. From 'Lemures'; the ghosts/spirits of the dead in Latin.
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Jul 25, 2021 02:21
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a computing pun posted:In JBBM lemur consuls and grand lemurs are dominion-immortal rather than just immortal which makes them much less useful as offensive weapons. they're still effective in the appropriate circumstances but the ability to use them as consequence-free raiders / army-killers is gone; you need to either actually support them on the attack and also accept that their deaths are meaningful, use them purely on the defence, or have extremely strong dompush. Yeah, restricting them to dominion-immortal would definitely make the the nation weaker - and I was judging the nation at base rather than JBBM - though I'd still argue against them being one of the weakest nations.
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Jul 25, 2021 03:38
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gonadic io posted:Not to steal Lukas' thunder, but if you're interested in another modded dominions sslp between updates of this one, consider checking out: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3902681 thank god i have to wait between updates for this LP or else something like this would happen where the entirety of yesterday disappears as i read the entire thing in one sitting dominions 5 is one of those games i enjoy reading about more than playing. some of the funniest poo poo i've ever seen comes outta this game 
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Jul 25, 2021 04:03
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Wait, how the hell is LA Mictlan bottom three when recruit anywhere Jaguar Warriors exist? I can understand them not being *good*, but so many problems can be solved with hellblesses
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Jul 25, 2021 05:23
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the Orb of Zot posted:Wait, how the hell is LA Mictlan bottom three when recruit anywhere Jaguar Warriors exist? I can understand them not being *good*, but so many problems can be solved with hellblesses You can't maximum hellbless from the start anymore, your god has to be on the map for the really good ones to work. The sacred rush is nowhere near as good now.
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Jul 25, 2021 05:35
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wiegieman posted:You can't maximum hellbless from the start anymore, your god has to be on the map for the really good ones to work. The sacred rush is nowhere near as good now. This, restricting the blesses really puts a hurt on mictlan.
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Jul 25, 2021 05:38
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Lord Koth posted:They... don't need that combo whatsoever though? Vaetti, Caelum, Gath, Atlantis and Ulm annihilate LA Lemuria by the dozen with their magic weapons options. Additionally, Marignon, R'lyeh and Mictlan have shitloads of priests for banishing away, and then there's anyone with easy Astral access who can spam away with Solar Rays and the like. And you can count on LA Ulm, Vaetti and Atlantis being present in almost every LA game, by my experience. Lemuria also has very little benefit from a bless except for their expander PG, because their access to sacreds is pretty unreliable and their sacreds frankly aren't very good even if they do get a decent amount. Thugs have the issue that if you have a huge chaff swarm either: you put them at the front, the chaff does nothing OR you put them at the back, the chaff gets in the way of their actually getting to engage any enemies because the chaff gets in the way. And the big spells that make their mages matter are around research 5 and 6, so they have a long period where they are supremely easily rolled. Take it from someone who's actually won a multiplayer game as LA Lemuria: they suck rear end. The only reason I won at all was that Vaettiheim was good enough to accept peace rather than eternal war, and everyone else was foolish enough to leave me alone. the Orb of Zot posted:Wait, how the hell is LA Mictlan bottom three when recruit anywhere Jaguar Warriors exist? I can understand them not being *good*, but so many problems can be solved with hellblesses LA Mictlan has a lot of issues, as mentioned mostly the fact that their troop selection in EA, MA and LA are the same, with only their anywhere sacreds changing(Jaguar to Eagle to Jaguar, and I'd argue the Eagle Warriors are the best to have as anywhere sacreds). The Jaguar Warriors have a decent-ish attack, but they still haven't learned to wear armor by LA, which means that by their raw values they easily get used for target practice by just about anything, so rather than EA, where they're strong, and the bless further builds on that, in LA their bless is about patching up weaknesses. The second issue is that, in having bad troops, initial expansion is suddenly a lot more hungry for an expander PG... but LA is also a bad era for expander PG's since every second indie province has heavy cavalry, AP-damage crossbows, or both. If they're allowed to get going, they can be strong, since they have great blood magic access and LA has a lot of high-pop provinces compared to EA, but they are, again, very easily murdered to start out, and people have to pretty much leave you alone on purpose to let you get anywhere.
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Jul 25, 2021 07:26
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Could someone actually show off the popkill nations? I don't mean running a game with them, but a brief review of their various units and spells, maybe pretender build strategies? We are very unlikely to ever see them again in an LP, considering all that has been said, and I would really like to have a closer look.
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Jul 25, 2021 13:04
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Tevery Best posted:Could someone actually show off the popkill nations? I don't mean running a game with them, but a brief review of their various units and spells, maybe pretender build strategies? We are very unlikely to ever see them again in an LP, considering all that has been said, and I would really like to have a closer look. If you don't mind (1) a VLP and (2) that it is mod popkill nation Mu (author of clowns.dm) has an LP of him playing a popkill mod nation of his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fPPZqwpR9Q
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Jul 25, 2021 17:05
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All of Mu's nations are really solid. Has anyone tried his newest one yet? I haven't had time to really sink my teeth into it yet.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:19
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Raine posted:thank god i have to wait between updates for this LP or else something like this would happen where the entirety of yesterday disappears as i read the entire thing in one sitting I once lost a week after buying SA's archives update and just going back through old LPs. I did try to bully Baudin into getting one of his older LPs archived in the course of this game, but so far he hasn't gone through with it. Sadly.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:28
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Tevery Best posted:Could someone actually show off the popkill nations? I don't mean running a game with them, but a brief review of their various units and spells, maybe pretender build strategies? We are very unlikely to ever see them again in an LP, considering all that has been said, and I would really like to have a closer look. I consider myself pretty cool with Lemuria(I got a win!) and Asphodel(I almost got a win!) so say the word if you want a detailed rundown of one of those two.
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Jul 25, 2021 19:25
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PurpleXVI posted:I consider myself pretty cool with Lemuria(I got a win!) and Asphodel(I almost got a win!) so say the word if you want a detailed rundown of one of those two. I'm going to charitably assume you're not talking about the time you subbed in for some poor bastard who had Turmoil 3/Misfortune 3 Asphodel and are actually talking about a Normal game. JonJoeGods Is/Was a treasure, I'm not sure if it's still running but I do know I got knocked out early with a distressingly normal C'Tis build.
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Jul 25, 2021 22:46
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LukasR23 posted:I'm going to charitably assume you're not talking about the time you subbed in for some poor bastard who had Turmoil 3/Misfortune 3 Asphodel and are actually talking about a Normal game. Naw, this one time I got a random Stalker for an event just as the monkeys attacked me, and I used him to stab some vital mages in the brain, even win the tournament, and I was a real terror until I went up against someone, in the end game, who could Mind Hunt all my dudes.
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Jul 25, 2021 22:58
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LukasR23 posted:JonJoeGods Is/Was a treasure, I'm not sure if it's still running but I do know I got knocked out early with a distressingly normal C'Tis build. It is! On turn 59 currently.
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Jul 26, 2021 02:06
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I will do this thread the favor of posting that game's gods after the game is over.
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Jul 26, 2021 02:06
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PurpleXVI posted:I consider myself pretty cool with Lemuria(I got a win!) and Asphodel(I almost got a win!) so say the word if you want a detailed rundown of one of those two. You also won one as LA Ry'leh so I think the appropriate punishment would be to do rundowns of the popkill nations. Generally though yeah they're all pretty bad against a normal nation who knows what they're doing and aren't even very fun to play, in my opinion.
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Jul 26, 2021 03:54
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tankfish posted:All of Mu's nations are really solid. Has anyone tried his newest one yet? I haven't had time to really sink my teeth into it yet. You mean Ocaf? I'm playing it in a game currently. I may do a writeup once the game advances a little further.
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Jul 26, 2021 04:59
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