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Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Hello CSPAM folks. Shine and I are admins here on SA and we need your help. Tell us about CSPAM! We want to hear good things, bad things, neutral things. I cant be a good admin and help with poo poo if I don't know about a place, so here I am. Things we'd love to hear about include:

  • Threads that are great. Things that are funny or entertaining or informative. Why do you think as such?
  • People who deserve recognition for being great here and adding to the community. Forums are nothing without worth-a-poo poo people, who is under-recognized and deserves some props?
  • Things that loving suck in CSPAM. No place is roses all the time. What needs changed and WHY? What might not need a change per say...but is something you don't like.

This is your chance to write words about your home forum.

A few ground rules for this thread.

First of all, only Shine or I will be modding this thread. No CSPAM mods or IKs will use buttons in here. Since every forum has their own mod style, Shine and I may have a different feel for these things. I personally tend to give a lot of warnings first...then if I have to use buttons I make it longer since I warned. I trust ya'll not to gently caress around, I'm not worried. If I gently caress it up, I'll correct it, I ask you all do the same.

Second, this is NOT a thread for going after other posters. This is NOT the thread to report on other people. If it is your opinion a specific poster is ruining the entirety of CSPAM, send me or shine a private message and we can discuss that aspect of your issue. General is fine, specific names is not. This extends to other forums too. I don't want to hear about how the cat adoption thread in PI is somehow killing your enjoyment of CSPAM. I don't give a poo poo about other forums in the CSPAM thread here. A little addition to this, this is not a thread for judge and jury of the Mod and IK team. If there is something that needs mentioned, go ahead, but give me a reason why. Explanations are better than "They suck, the end." If you have a specific issue with a probe or Mod, please drop me or Shine a PM about it.

This is also more of a place to give your ideas and feelings, not to tear down others and get into some weird slap fight over bullshit. I want to hear YOUR thoughts, not your criticism of other people's ideas. I'm not going to make it a rule to not quote others, but I highly recommend, and would prefer, you create your own post with your own words instead of just quoting things you hate and going "I hate this."

Again, that top list item up there is pretty important. I know there can be a lot of poo poo things, but I want to learn about CSPAM bad AND good. There are some great things in here, tell me about them! Is there a thread or person you look forward to checking everyday? Is there something that gets a +1 post and you immediately click it? Why?

Also, what is CSPAM missing? Is there a thread you wish someone would make? Is there something been promised that you are still waiting on?

Some other housekeeping things:
This thread will be in slow mode.
This thread will most likely only be open when someone is around to monitor it. My apologies if that doesn't match up with the times you are on the forums. Our PMs are always open.
Probations will be handled by only me or Shine (or if another admin wants to get involved). This is not a probation free zone. If you suck, you can enjoy some time off while this thread is going. This is also not a forum-banned immunity zone.
No other Mods or Admins will be required to post in this thread. Do not call them out to answer for things. If they would like to stop by, they are free to.

If you wish to give thoughts but do not want to do so publicly you can PM me, I have the ability to add PMs to your account for a discussion if you need that just ask. Your feedback/name/username will remain anonymous to everyone but me or Shine. You may also include if you want your post shared with the thread, with the Mods, or to keep it fully Admin eyes only. I can also share your words with the thread, but leave your name off.

Shine and I both have SA Email addresses if you'd prefer that way of contact. They are:
Athanatos (athanatos@somethingawful.com)
Shine (shine@somethingawful.com)


That's it for now. There may be more updates in this space later. I will make sure to keep the thread updated if something comes across. Any questions directed at me I will try to answer, other general things I will also leave any thoughts I have. If you have something specific you want me to answer or my thoughts on, quote me so I know you want me to specifically answer instead of just read it.

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Shine
Feb 26, 2007

No Muscles For The Majority


Greetings!

Reiterating the "what the gently caress are the admins looking for?":

Athanatos posted:

Things we'd love to hear about include:
  • Threads that are great. Things that are funny or entertaining or informative. Why do you think as such?
  • People who deserve recognition for being great here and adding to the community. Forums are nothing without worth-a-poo poo people, who is under-recognized and deserves some props?
  • Things that loving suck in CSPAM. No place is roses all the time. What needs changed and WHY? What might not need a change per say...but is something you don't like.

This is your chance to write words about your home forum.

I'll be around off-and-on this Friday and Saturday, and of course my PMs are open .

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012



i think the biggest problem with this subforum is that absolutely nobody knows what it's supposed to be for, not even the mods. some people treat it as 'd&d, but with different mods'. personally I would say it's the Marxist political forum since you can do most of the same posting that happens here in the d&d forum, and it's really hard to actually argue with a liberal because you just have totally different base assumptions about the world. others treat it as some kind of weird friend zone and only post about lunch and buying respirators to brave the Wal-Mart exclusion zone. it has a lot of people posting in it which doesn't help any of this. i don't even, ultimately, particularly care what it's purpose is, so long as it has one.

also, nobody reads the stickies in this forum because the mods usually have it full of stupid poo poo, so it might be a while before anybody answers

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP



It's the politics forum where you can tell people gently caress you and I think that's good.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Larry Parrish posted:

i think the biggest problem with this subforum is that absolutely nobody knows what it's supposed to be for, not even the mods. some people treat it as 'd&d, but with different mods'. personally I would say it's the Marxist political forum since you can do most of the same posting that happens here in the d&d forum, and it's really hard to actually argue with a liberal because you just have totally different base assumptions about the world. others treat it as some kind of weird friend zone and only post about lunch and buying respirators to brave the Wal-Mart exclusion zone. it has a lot of people posting in it which doesn't help any of this. i don't even, ultimately, particularly care what it's purpose is, so long as it has one.

also, nobody reads the stickies in this forum because the mods usually have it full of stupid poo poo, so it might be a while before anybody answers

Is it a problem with a solution or just something that CSPAM lives with because of how it is? I mean, hell, is it even a "problem" it is like that, or just something that should be kept in mind when deciding things for "cspam" as a whole?

It also makes sense that a forum with vaguely interconnected communities that stickies would be ignored/slower since I assume most people would live in their bookmarks, not browse the directory.

Edit: The sticky fatigue thing could also be true. Too many stickies defeat the purpose of them.


Gumball Gumption posted:

It's the politics forum where you can tell people gently caress you and I think that's good.

There seem to be a lot of not politics threads for a politics forum

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Fully Automated Luxury Space Dog


Athanatos posted:

There seem to be a lot of not politics threads for a politics forum

CSPAM is supposed to be the political shitposting forum, and people are going to tend to go off-topic a lot.

When I posted the gaming thread I intended for it to have a left wing and explicitly political focus, and it's mostly kept to that. Even with as much as people digress about non-political topics it always swings back. It's good to have a lot of digression in a shitposting forum.

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007



Larry Parrish posted:

i think the biggest problem with this subforum is that absolutely nobody knows what it's supposed to be for, not even the mods. some people treat it as 'd&d, but with different mods'. personally I would say it's the Marxist political forum since you can do most of the same posting that happens here in the d&d forum, and it's really hard to actually argue with a liberal because you just have totally different base assumptions about the world. others treat it as some kind of weird friend zone and only post about lunch and buying respirators to brave the Wal-Mart exclusion zone. it has a lot of people posting in it which doesn't help any of this. i don't even, ultimately, particularly care what it's purpose is, so long as it has one.

also, nobody reads the stickies in this forum because the mods usually have it full of stupid poo poo, so it might be a while before anybody answers

It's probably not a mistake c-spam gets a doomer rep, because ultimately the forum sprang up partly from a D&D userbase and some of that energy is like a reaction away from the base assumptions (i.e. insane optimism) underpinning the forum ur talking about. Now sometimes that means you straighten your brain and become a materialist and other times it means you an insane russiagater crank who wants healthcare and hates the democrats and likes to post sandwiches.

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

Old school? New school?
Shit, I didn't go to school



Athanatos posted:


There seem to be a lot of not politics threads for a politics forum

I think more than anything, being leftists means we have a different attitude towards even what would be normally considered "non-political" topics. I want to say we're pretty much all in agreement that everything is political, which will definitely put us at odds with the denizens of other subforums that usually focuses on those topics

some plague rats
Jun 5, 2012


It seems like the biggest problem with cspam is that mods and IKs seems to be chosen exclusively from a pool of the most annoying, thin-skinned losers on the site and there's no obvious way to get rid of them when they continually make awful calls that drive everyone insane. This is not uniquely a cspam problem but it's where you asked

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


grieving for Gandalf posted:

I think more than anything, being leftists means we have a different attitude towards even what would be normally considered "non-political" topics. I want to say we're pretty much all in agreement that everything is political, which will definitely put us at odds with the denizens of other subforums that usually focuses on those topics

At odds how? Does that make CSPAM a Safe Spot or a Quarantine Zone? Kinda joking with that 2nd question one there...but also wouldn't mind some elaboration.


some plague rats posted:

It seems like the biggest problem with cspam is that mods and IKs seems to be chosen exclusively from a pool of the most annoying, thin-skinned losers on the site and there's no obvious way to get rid of them when they continually make awful calls that drive everyone insane. This is not uniquely a cspam problem but it's where you asked

What would a good mod for CSPAM be and do?

Is there an archetype to look for? Is is even finding a "cspam mod" or should be be "find a mod for every iteration of cspam thread" and maybe one or two overalls to oversee the large group?

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012



some plague rats posted:

It seems like the biggest problem with cspam is that mods and IKs seems to be chosen exclusively from a pool of the most annoying, thin-skinned losers on the site and there's no obvious way to get rid of them when they continually make awful calls that drive everyone insane. This is not uniquely a cspam problem but it's where you asked

it doesn't help things anyway. especially because at least in some cases the mods picked more mods; kind of the opposite of what you want in a forum with a large user base.

grieving for Gandalf posted:

I think more than anything, being leftists means we have a different attitude towards even what would be normally considered "non-political" topics. I want to say we're pretty much all in agreement that everything is political, which will definitely put us at odds with the denizens of other subforums that usually focuses on those topics

i think it's ok to have off topic poo poo but I don't think it's terribly ok to have off topic threads if that makes sense. the gaming thread is kind of an exception because there's a lot to talk about when it comes to politics in books and games and movies. music is a less useful discussion topic imo but related. parenting and gardening and etc have basically no place here and appear to just be chat threads. i guess you could make the argument that the gardening one could be about organizing community gardens but somehow I doubt it.

Athanatos posted:


What would a good mod for CSPAM be and do?

Is there an archetype to look for? Is is even finding a "cspam mod" or should be be "find a mod for every iteration of cspam thread" and maybe one or two overalls to oversee the large group?

i think a good cspam mod would basically be there to moderate discussion. like, in any poltical forum stuff will get heated, so you need someone to cool it down sometimes. but what we really need is someone willing to do something about the doomer posting. it's not useful for any larger poltical discussion, it's not interesting or funny to read most of the time, and it's everywhere and infects every thread. we have like 22 mods and you see very little moderation happening except when arfjason posts or SPB makes a thread.

Athanatos posted:

What's the downside of having semi-offtopic threads in the thread list?

i don't think it necessarily is a problem, just that most threads are currently chat threads or effectively chat threads (hello covid and climate change thread) and there's too many as it is


loving post cool down lol.

Larry Parrish has issued a correction as of 23:01 on Jun 24, 2021

really queer Christmas
Apr 22, 2014

Have you heard the good word?


CSPAM is, at it's best, a relaxed forum where you can just post a political thought or idea and you don't need to justify any effort or thought. You can make a funny one liner post, you can put effort into a post through words or art, or you can make a big ol block of text maybe only two people read. All three have audiences here that will engage with you.

Where CSPAM fails is that, its only rarely ever reaches that potential and is mostly a couple of megathreads that people probably use bookmarks to find filled with thread regulars that will post 100 times a day. The best threads in the subforum usually get maybe a page a day or even a week - if that.

Where it really fails, is that some of the worst threads have been where the majority of mods and IKs have come from over the past few years. And so their idea of CSPAM is one where misspelling trumps name is the height of hilarity and making 10 million posts a day about food is what should be happening in this subforum.

If CSPAM had a lot more threads and less megathreads, I feel like this place would be a lot better. I also think making sure you have a diverse mod crew so you don't get like all of the mods coming from one thread deciding policy for the whole place when this subforum has really good posters, and really bad posters.

For good posters, I think joepinetree and ytalya are both really good. I enjoy Pener and gradenko's posts as well.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Larry Parrish posted:

i think it's ok to have off topic poo poo but I don't think it's terribly ok to have off topic threads if that makes sense. the gaming thread is kind of an exception because there's a lot to talk about when it comes to politics in books and games and movies. music is a less useful discussion topic imo but related. parenting and gardening and etc have basically no place here and appear to just be chat threads. i guess you could make the argument that the gardening one could be about organizing community gardens but somehow I doubt it.

What's the downside of having semi-offtopic threads in the thread list?

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



it's a leftist political forum for posting with other people who share similar beliefs

it should be a welcoming place for people good faith curious about the left and a place where everyone and everything to the right of that is thoroughly mocked. this includes people wandering in to spread the good word of neoliberalism, who can and should be mocked directly, until they either shut up and learn something or run off

threads should avoid ending up as only chat. that's how the trump thread got the way it did. that isn't to say that everything is strictly on topic all the time and there's no derails happen, but there's a point that i think we can all feel when a thread gets insular and weird

all of this happens now, to varying degrees of success

threads should be as lightly moderated as possible, as most problems are self correcting. if someone is being dumb and won't shut up, and it's not fun to mock them anymore, that's when a mod or ik should step in and shuffle them out so they don't ruin everyone else's good time

this has not been the case

a lot of the friction between the mods/iks and everyone else has come from overmoderation, which leads to a backlash, which leads to a hostile relationship developing between mods and the community

this is exacerbated by there not being any way for the community to get rid of problem mods/iks, at least until they melt down and post chipmunk porn in QCS, at which point they are grudgingly removed

no idea how you pick who gets buttons, but it's a broken process and something else should be put in its place

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


really queer Christmas posted:


Where CSPAM fails is that, its only rarely ever reaches that potential and is mostly a couple of megathreads that people probably use bookmarks to find filled with thread regulars that will post 100 times a day. The best threads in the subforum usually get maybe a page a day or even a week - if that.

If CSPAM had a lot more threads and less megathreads, I feel like this place would be a lot better. I also think making sure you have a diverse mod crew so you don't get like all of the mods coming from one thread deciding policy for the whole place when this subforum has really good posters, and really bad posters.

What are some of the slower threads you enjoy? (Same question for anyone)

I personally feel the same way about megathreads. They need to be rebooted often. I've found in my years of being here, when a megathread is new...new people are more likely to show up and hang out. When a thread is 4000 pages and someone new jumps in, everyone tends to go "omg this guy didn't read page 221, what a loving loser"

A bonus of the rebooting threads...people have to click the directory more often and see other poo poo they may enjoy.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010





Athanatos posted:

When a thread is 4000 pages and someone new jumps in, everyone tends to go "omg this guy didn't read page 221, what a loving loser"

Personally, I've never seen this happen in a C-SPAM megathread, I don't think it's an actual problem.

Megathreads are going to happen and while I'm all for people making new smaller threads, the problem is that if the new smaller thread ends up successful, it just becomes a megathread eventually. If the new smaller thread isn't successful, it falls back a couple pages and effectively dies. I don't get the hate about megathreads.

I also don't see what "rebooting" a megathread accomplishes, I haven't really seen a bunch of new posters come out for a rebooted version of a megathread that they weren't already posting in.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012



i like the marxism thread which is slow but gets posts sporadically. it has good discussions sometimes although other times it's just watching ferrinus try to explain basic stuff wrong and with more words than the original authors. the cybernetics thread was legitimately interesting and then flavius decided to probate some people and I was banned+30'd and it's since died. there's so many massive monolithic threads in this forum that most of the slower ones are typically forgotten completely. i had to bookmark the California politics thread because it was impossible to tell if it got posts or not otherwise.

i don't really know how to fix this, though. for example games is by design mostly massive threads, but because they're all focused in topic people can and do look for and make new threads all the time. i guess it's half a mod problem and half a culture problem.

also I'd like to say the problem hasn't been heavy handed modding here, necessarily, but bad heavy handed modding. such as when the mods decided to pick a side in the Xinjiang Question and probated or banned anyone disagreeing with them for months, or people who merely seemed like they might be disagreeing. the forum does need much more active modding but it needs to be setting an example and not laying down the law, if that makes any sense.

Larry Parrish has issued a correction as of 23:17 on Jun 24, 2021

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

Old school? New school?
Shit, I didn't go to school



Athanatos posted:

At odds how? Does that make CSPAM a Safe Spot or a Quarantine Zone? Kinda joking with that 2nd question one there...but also wouldn't mind some elaboration.


the answer is yes, haha. I don't really mean that we're a bunch of raucous people who are hard to get along with, but I understand wanting to talk about some of these "off topic" subjects with more like-minded people in CSPAM because there's a culture and an approach to subject matter that's endemic to this forum. moreover:

Larry Parrish posted:


i think it's ok to have off topic poo poo but I don't think it's terribly ok to have off topic threads if that makes sense. the gaming thread is kind of an exception because there's a lot to talk about when it comes to politics in books and games and movies. music is a less useful discussion topic imo but related. parenting and gardening and etc have basically no place here and appear to just be chat threads. i guess you could make the argument that the gardening one could be about organizing community gardens but somehow I doubt it.

I suppose there's a gradient here as to how related to the forum's "purpose" a thread is, but I don't know why a given forum's community can't have a little off topic thread about something. if there wasn't a desire for a parenting thread in CSPAM, it wouldn't be frequented and wouldn't be on the first page. but I think other people have a stronger idea of what a forum's purpose is meant to be than I do, which I respect

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007



Larry Parrish posted:

flavius decided to probate some people and I was banned+30'd and it's since died.

I've oft wondered how many users are shed every time an admin/mod decides to go insane and beat c-spam with a stick. feels like huge chip damage over the years

docbeard
Jul 18, 2011

Modern worldly poster

I see CSPAM as a distinct community, but not a monoculture, if that makes any sense at all. Like I think we all have broadly shared values but those values shape different corners of this forum in different ways. (I'm not really talking about different opinions but, say, the ways that the more chatty threads are different from the more topic focused threads, are different from the threads focused more on activism or specifically on Marxism, and so forth)

Which I think is mostly good but can lead to some odd tensions you don't necessarily see anywhere else on the forums. Like for example most of the mods coming from the high traffic chattier threads can lead to a large swath of CSPAM feeling under or unrepresented. (Look for example at the IKs, who are drawn from a wider background, generally not being targets of the venom aimed (rightly or wrongly) at the mods.

What I like most about CSPAM is that it's a place where conversations are free to happen. What I mean is that if I say something stupid, or something that just goes against the grain of the thread, I might be argued with, ignored, told I'm an idiot or to go gently caress myself, but no one (or at least no one whose opinion matters) will tell me I'm talking about things the wrong way. And, particularly as I get older, there's no loving time for Roberts Rules of Bullshit.

There's things I'm less fond of but rather than post about those (right now at least), my supper is ready and while I'm not gonna post about it I am gonna eat it.

Crusader
Apr 11, 2002

progress that shields us from the terrors of an uncertain future





grieving for Gandalf posted:

I suppose there's a gradient here as to how related to the forum's "purpose" a thread is, but I don't know why a given forum's community can't have a little off topic thread about something. if there wasn't a desire for a parenting thread in CSPAM, it wouldn't be frequented and wouldn't be on the first page. but I think other people have a stronger idea of what a forum's purpose is meant to be than I do, which I respect

thatís kinda where im at on the matter; the trump/chat threads do suck the oxygen out of the room, but i think that also reflects where peopleís heads were at and what they gravitated towards wanting to post about

anyway i think cspam will always need a current events thread that will probably get off-topic when thereís not much insanity going on, but we could also do more to generate discussion that hopefully leads people to work that improves conditions in general

i am definitely guilty of avoiding the denser threads because i didnt think i was well read enough to participate, but that said i deeply appreciate pushing to make cspam a better forum and while i have no concrete suggestions in this post i will read more and maybe be able to contribute later

but if i donít thereís plenty here that will, and we should encourage and foster that.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


I turned slow mode off for now since I'm around.


WampaLord posted:

Personally, I've never seen this happen in a C-SPAM megathread, I don't think it's an actual problem.

Megathreads are going to happen and while I'm all for people making new smaller threads, the problem is that if the new smaller thread ends up successful, it just becomes a megathread eventually. If the new smaller thread isn't successful, it falls back a couple pages and effectively dies. I don't get the hate about megathreads.

I also don't see what "rebooting" a megathread accomplishes, I haven't really seen a bunch of new posters come out for a rebooted version of a megathread that they weren't already posting in.

I can't speak to specific CSPAM, but back when I asked before, ZDR had some things that showed, and personally in forums that I read, I've seen, when you reboot a thread on the regular, there are more people that show up. (that was a lot of loving qualifiers for that sentence) The longer a thread goes, the more insular (and a lot of times can be hostile to "outsiders") it becomes.

Also like I mentioned...people have to actually click the forum to refind their favorite thread instead of just living in bookmark land.

I don't think it hurts to go "Ok, new month, new thread!"


grieving for Gandalf posted:

I suppose there's a gradient here as to how related to the forum's "purpose" a thread is, but I don't know why a given forum's community can't have a little off topic thread about something. if there wasn't a desire for a parenting thread in CSPAM, it wouldn't be frequented and wouldn't be on the first page. but I think other people have a stronger idea of what a forum's purpose is meant to be than I do, which I respect

Yeah. It's trying to find what a Forum's place is. Is this a place for like-minded people to hang out...or is this a place for a discussion of a topic? It's different things to different people.

It also goes back to my "is this a safe space or quarantine zone" question. There is a pretty good and popular parenting thread in Ask/Tell. Does a "Politics Forum" need a parenting thread if there already is a space for that?


You all have also hit one of the issues with finding the right tone as a moderator. This is a very large forum. Some people feel like "doomposting" should be something a moderator should deal with...others feel like things should be very lightly moderated and only step in as a last effort thing. Being a moderator is trying to find the balance between that and finding the right call. Being a good moderator is about know what the community as a majority wants and being that, NOT molding a community to what you want.

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP



Athanatos posted:

There seem to be a lot of not politics threads for a politics forum

I don't really care about chat threads, they don't bother anything and I think SA has a real problem with people not just passing by things they find annoying but are not harmful. But if you're talking about things like the weather thread or gaming, everything is political. Games does not want to hear endless bullshit about leftism in video games. Cspam does. It fills a role.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


docbeard posted:

There's things I'm less fond of but rather than post about those (right now at least), my supper is ready and while I'm not gonna post about it I am gonna eat it.

I plan to let this run a few days at least, so no rush to form thoughts.

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP



Also the alternative to current events threads that go off track now and then is something more like how D&D does it and everyone would be so mad.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010





Athanatos posted:

I turned slow mode off for now since I'm around.

I can't speak to specific CSPAM, but back when I asked before, ZDR had some things that showed, and personally in forums that I read, I've seen, when you reboot a thread on the regular, there are more people that show up. (that was a lot of loving qualifiers for that sentence) The longer a thread goes, the more insular (and a lot of times can be hostile to "outsiders") it becomes.

Also like I mentioned...people have to actually click the forum to refind their favorite thread instead of just living in bookmark land.

I don't think it hurts to go "Ok, new month, new thread!"

I don't think it "hurts" but also it doesn't really gain anything either other than just making sure threads don't go too many pages, basically it's strange to me that people focus on "threads with lots of pages" as the main problem when they are not really a big problem. I see new people jump in to supposed "insular megathreads" all the time.

Athanatos posted:

Some people feel like "doomposting" should be something a moderator should deal with

People calling honest descriptions of reality "doomposting" is a much bigger problem than megathreads, imo.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Fully Automated Luxury Space Dog


docbeard posted:

What I like most about CSPAM is that it's a place where conversations are free to happen. What I mean is that if I say something stupid, or something that just goes against the grain of the thread, I might be argued with, ignored, told I'm an idiot or to go gently caress myself, but no one (or at least no one whose opinion matters) will tell me I'm talking about things the wrong way. And, particularly as I get older, there's no loving time for Roberts Rules of Bullshit.

I said before that CSPAM is a political shitposting forum but that's probably too flippant. The great thing about CSPAM is that shitposting and effort posting can go hand in hand, and there's no pressure for anybody to put too much effort into anything until the inspiration really strikes them.

Trying to set standards for the quality of posting is just an invitation for posting combat or debate styling, which I don't think anybody wants in here. I think posters have a good sense for what kind of posting should or shouldn't be allowed, whether that comes down to toxic behavior or insufferable banality.

pancake rabbit
Feb 21, 2011







yeah what wampa said ^

the only thing wrong with cspam is the three page food derails in the threads that aren't the cooking threads

no mods no masters, thx & god bless

e:

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The great thing about CSPAM is that shitposting and effort posting can go hand in hand, and there's no pressure for anybody to put too much effort into anything until the inspiration really strikes them.

yeah this too, i was trying to find similar words to describe how this is a forum of pseudo-ironic nihilists that occasionally break kayfabe into cool and good sincereposting and knowing when to cross that line is the hallmark of a good poster

pancake rabbit has issued a correction as of 23:50 on Jun 24, 2021

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Gumball Gumption posted:

I don't really care about chat threads, they don't bother anything and I think SA has a real problem with people not just passing by things they find annoying but are not harmful. But if you're talking about things like the weather thread or gaming, everything is political. Games does not want to hear endless bullshit about leftism in video games. Cspam does. It fills a role.

Yeah, and I didn't mean to come off as attacking them or anything, just asking.

XXX thread but with sometimes a politics spin...can be a good thing. I know I don't want to hear about billionare fucks buying islands while in the Animal Crossing thread in games, but people do want to discuss that and it's good to have a spot so they don't become the rear end in a top hat in Games threads.

WampaLord posted:

I don't think it "hurts" but also it doesn't really gain anything either other than just making sure threads don't go too many pages, basically it's strange to me that people focus on "threads with lots of pages" as the main problem when they are not really a big problem. I see new people jump in to supposed "insular megathreads" all the time.

People calling honest descriptions of reality "doomposting" is a much bigger problem than megathreads, imo.

I don't think anyone is calling it a MAIN problem, just something that is prevalent here. I've been through a lot of QCS threads with lots of opinions on Megathreads. I have mine...but I'm also not the mod here. Megathreads are something the community should get together and decide with their mods.


Gumball Gumption posted:

Also the alternative to current events threads that go off track now and then is something more like how D&D does it and everyone would be so mad.

All threads go off track every once in a while. Good ones have people who post poo poo on topic and re-rail the train.

Pentecoastal Elites
Feb 27, 2007




C-SPAM is the only left-ish space online that you can talk leftist politics in that's not jam packed to the rafters with absolute hooting maniacs, boring as gently caress, or both in equal measure. Not to say it can't use any improvement but it's pretty good, and that is miles and miles ahead of any similar thing you can find online.

I agree with Larry in that one of the issues with the forum is that there's no clear purpose. Ostensibly it's the politics shitposting forum but for reasons I think have been talked about enough (in QCS most recently) that doesn't really work without having a politics effortposting forum that's not ideologically captured, so its become the de facto leftist forum. I don't really think this is a bad thing, but I do think it sort of locks D&D in to being the liberal space and C-SPAM the leftist one. Don't know how to rectify this though.

One of the weirder things about C-SPAM as a community though is that it's fractured into like an ambient C-SPAM community and then specific-thread posters. The former is, IMO, really great and is the reason why I participate in threads here that don't really have too much of a political context (fitness, weed, etc). Lots of posters that know a ton of theory and history, or have really interesting and unique viewpoints that you can't really get anywhere else, or people that are just incredibly funny. joepinetree, cpt. obvious, lib and let die, pener, larry, homeless friend, yossarian, raskolinkov, tokin opposition etc. etc. -- there are tons and I could keep going but I never ever remember usernames and I was able to pull these off the top of my head due to them being consistently very insightful or very funny (and often both) posting in a bunch of different threads on a bunch of different topics. C-SPAM doesn't need a fitness thread but it's always fun to see eg. Alobar get hype, and I think that speaks to the strength of the subforum and for-real feelings of solidarity and community between its posters.

C-SPAM chat threads, though, seem to harbor a really weird culture and it seems like all of the bad posts and mods/IKs come from those. I don't know what drives someone to post TROUMP every six minutes and don't participate in them so I have no idea as to why and how that happens. Breaking up megathreads/chat threads seems like a good idea, IMO, but your guess is as good as mine. Anyway I don't think they're very good.

Post-flavius I think C-SPAM modding has been generally good in as much as I don't see a ton of it and the threads are allowed to react how they will to people eg. posting weird poo poo (goof on them incessantly until they get huffy and leave), and usually only probing when people spam or are especially unfunny. This isn't a really deep analysis though this is just what I've been seeing recently. I guess I'd like to see more regular moderation feedback threads that, you know, actually get listened to. I think an ideal C-SPAM would have a few chill mods who get the spirit of the forum and (relatively) lots more IKs to basically just monitor the threads they like to post in to make sure nobody's going feral, but who can also be recalled easily.

I too would like to see more threads in general even if they are low traffic and slow. The Cybernetics thread is a good example where it's 100% (as SPR said IIRC) an indoor boy nerd thread but is probably the only place in the world that has both information about, and jokes on, communist cybernetics. Same with the Marxism (also good) thread: mostly jokes and kind of chat thread-y, but can turn back into serious effortposts about theory at the drop of a hat which is very good, to me. I think it'd be good for the mods to encourage making more threads like this in general, really. C-SPAM should live up to its FYAD-lite DNA w/r/t threads. C-SPAM threadsday would be a good idea, or just any sort of community involvement in making threads and looking at the forum index.

I took a bunch of allergy meds and am about to fall asleep so this post probably sucks rear end, but here u go.

e: a bunch of posts got posted as I was writing that largely say what I tried to, which is a clear indication that our Posting Nen is fully synced and incredibly pure

Pentecoastal Elites has issued a correction as of 23:59 on Jun 24, 2021

Korean Boomhauer
Sep 3, 2008




Crusader posted:

thatís kinda where im at on the matter; the trump/chat threads do suck the oxygen out of the room, but i think that also reflects where peopleís heads were at and what they gravitated towards wanting to post about

anyway i think cspam will always need a current events thread that will probably get off-topic when thereís not much insanity going on, but we could also do more to generate discussion that hopefully leads people to work that improves conditions in general

i am definitely guilty of avoiding the denser threads because i didnt think i was well read enough to participate, but that said i deeply appreciate pushing to make cspam a better forum and while i have no concrete suggestions in this post i will read more and maybe be able to contribute later

but if i donít thereís plenty here that will, and we should encourage and foster that.

i read a ton of threads here but dont really post in them because theres people in there that can word things way better than i can and im mostly reading to learn for the most part

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Small sample size I understand, but will ask now so future people who contribute can answer too:

XXX Topic threads can feel like chat threads, and sometimes wane away from the topic, but are mostly focused and come back, where as "chat threads" here are just random bullshit.

Seems to be...almost an animosity towards straight "chat threads." That about right?

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Korean Boomhauer posted:

i read a ton of threads here but dont really post in them because theres people in there that can word things way better than i can and im mostly reading to learn for the most part

Oh, this was something I said in the last one of these things I ran so I should say it here too:


You dont not have to be an active poster or someone with a crazy post count to contribute to this thread. Lurkers are welcome. People who read one thread in this forum are welcome.

Pentecoastal Elites
Feb 27, 2007




I can't blame anyone for wanting a chat thread with their posting pals but every time I hear about weird or bad poo poo coming from cspam it seems to be from a chat or near enough thread. maybe this is incorrect but it seems like a common perception.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Pentecoastal Elites posted:

I think an ideal C-SPAM would have a few chill mods who get the spirit of the forum and (relatively) lots more IKs to basically just monitor the threads they like to post in to make sure nobody's going feral, but who can also be recalled easily.

Zeroing in on this good point because, as some people have said, you do get specific thread subcultures and while there is a lot of overlap in both posters and general attitude, a lot of the modding problems happen when a mod from one thread gets involved in a fight with a different subculture.

There's also a question of the sort of marginal threads- like the totally-not-the-Trump thread is the fastest moving plus stuff like the Dems thread or the COVID thread, and on the other side you've got smaller threads on niche or short lived topics, but you've also got stuff like the Marxism thread, the media thread, the Epstein/conspiracy thread that move slower but still get posts regularly and are devoted to a particular topic

Uganda Loves Me
May 24, 2002




WampaLord posted:

People calling honest descriptions of reality "doomposting" is a much bigger problem than megathreads, imo.

Agreed. Accusations of "doomposting" are more of a D&D take.

Labeling CSPAM a "safe space" or a "quarantine zone" sounds like an outsider's take, too. In general, people here would rather argue it out and mock someone for having a dumb opinion than call in the mods. That's not really a safe space. We have an awesome mental health thread though. I'd call that a safe space. We're probably viewed as a "quarantine zone" by liberals on the site. I don't think anyone really cares.

Each megathread has its own culture, and I'd rather see mods come from within the specific megathread. I'm a fan of the succ zone, and having someone who didn't get the thread (ie Flavius) moderate it sucked.

I mostly just lurk, but I think CSPAM has a neat culture to it, and I'd like to see a very light hand in moderation. Threads can be funny and informative here. I don't really see any of the "chat" threads as off-topic. As others said, everything is political.


EDIT: Lots of new posts as I wrote this. I agree about having more IKs.

Uganda Loves Me has issued a correction as of 00:09 on Jun 25, 2021

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Lean into the "CSPAM has 200 mods lol" meme?

Most CSPAM threads have their own IK, they pick them however they want. The CSPAM Mod job becomes being in charge of IKs mostly (or their own thread and pull "double" duty). Making sure poo poo is fine with each IK, asking if they need anything, sending them reports, giving opinions on probes if needed/asked.


That way, each thread (community) has their own mod style. Since this is a place of 30 communities under one CSPAM banner apparently.


edit: disclaimer, again way to early in the thread to be making any actual changes, just randomly spitballing things while I wait for the NBA game to start.

double edit: If something I say sounds dumb or is the wrong read of something (not just this post), be sure to call me out on it. I'm here to learn poo poo, so don't let me leave without knowing.

Pentecoastal Elites
Feb 27, 2007




I mean if thatís the way it works now I think itís okay overall. I canít speak to the chat threads but after Flavius the threads I post in have been going pretty well.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012



pancake rabbit posted:

yeah this too, i was trying to find similar words to describe how this is a forum of pseudo-ironic nihilists that occasionally break kayfabe into cool and good sincereposting and knowing when to cross that line is the hallmark of a good poster

what are you talking about. Jesus.

i would like to clarify that posting in this weird half-self-aware way is what I mean by doom posting. what am i supposed to do with a statement like this. and it's usually talking about like, concentration camps or climate change. i can't tell where the mental illness begins and the insincere bad posting ends.

Larry Parrish has issued a correction as of 00:27 on Jun 25, 2021

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Uganda Loves Me
May 24, 2002




Thanks for taking some effort to get us. There's a perception (real or not) of outsiders coming in and loving things up because they don't get it.

I think CPSAM is in a good spot in many ways. I don't think we need a more narrow definition of the forum, which could be used to exclude content. If people want to talk about something, just let 'em.

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