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barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish






Windows 11 has been officially announced!
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the previous team at Microsoft was full of poo poo when they said "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows." And ever since an alpha build leaked a couple weeks ago, the tech world already knew it was coming before MS' announcement event today.
Windows 11 will be a free upgrade for Windows 10 users when it goes RTM this holiday season! So at least there's that.

What's new in Windows 11?

Good question! There are a lot of things to be cautiously excited about with Microsoft's latest entry in its operating system line. Windows has gotten a fresh coat of paint to reinforce Fluent design ideology. Have a gander at that translucency it's the Aero revolution we've been waiting for. There is an all new Start Menu (for the third time) and both it and your pinned taskbar icons have moved to the center of the taskbar to create the OSX ripoff dock of your dreams!



Windows 10's Live Tiles have been replaced with a new Widgets panel that flies out to show you news, weather, and more at a glance!



After many years completely unchanged, Microsoft has now introduced Snap Layouts which allow you to snap programs and apps to different parts of the screen in all different configurations beyond your typical "left-right" alignment of yore.



And in case you were feeling really nostalgic for MSN Messenger lately, they've gone ahead and integrated Microsoft Teams into the OS to add yet another goofy rear end messenging app to your already disorganized, convoluted workflow. But hey, at least it comes at the cost of an accelerated death of Skype, which is something we can all smile about.



Here's something exciting: Native Android apps now run on Windows and can be installed from the Amazon Appstore........wait, what the gently caress? You'll probably be able to sideload them and avoid having to touch Amazon poop, but you can finally dump BlueStacks and run your favorite apps right on your computer. This is arguably one of the biggest killer features of Win11.



There's a ton more poo poo they announced, and there's no way I can possibly fit it all in here. So in lieu of that, just check out The Verge's coverage or just loving Google "Windows 11" and your screen will be plastered with all kinds of information. The future is here!

What are the system requirements?

Microsoft has finally pulled Windows out of the metaphorical stone age and has dropped support for 32-bit CPUs. This is probably one of the biggest changes under the hood, along with the fact that your motherboard must support TPM 2.0* in order to run Windows 11. If you built a computer in the last 7-8 years, you're probably good to go! Otherwise, you'll have to purchase a dedicated TPM module or upgrade your gear. Beyond that, the officially published specifications are:

CPU: 1GHz or faster, with 2 or more cores on a 64-bit processor or SoC
RAM: 4GB minimum
Storage: 64GB or larger storage device (you will likely need more for Windows Update)
Mobo: UEFI, Secure Boot capable, and must support TPM 2.0*
GPU: DirectX 12 or later compatible with WDDM 2.0 driver

* - Turns out TPM 2.0 might not be required after all, so don't rush out and buy a TPM module!! TPM 1.2 is supported, with a warning shown to any user whose machine doesn't support 2.0: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/ (thanks, MikusR)

So what's the catch? What have they removed?

Microsoft has deprecated a bunch of poo poo in Win11. Some of it is good, some of it is bad. Cortana will no longer be included in the OOBE or pinned to the taskbar, which will save everyone the hassle of having to make it go away on a fresh install. Internet Explorer will be disabled by default on new installs. Live Tiles are no longer available in the Start Menu, named groups and folders of apps are no longer supported, and the Start Menu is no longer resizable. The taskbar can only be aligned to the bottom of the screen (RIP to side taskbar users. I'm sorry for your loss).

3D Viewer, OneNote, Paint3D, and Skype are now deprecated and will not be installed by default (this already happened to Win10 with one of the recent major feature updates and shouldn't be a shock to anyone.) Tablet Mode is gone as tablet layouts have been integrated into the OS, and the Snipping Tool has been replaced by the Snip & Sketch app. You should have installed ShareX and stopped using the Snipping Tool ages ago.

Anyway, let's get hype as gently caress for a new OS! Can't wait to sit outside Best Buy for the midnight release!!!!!!!!!!!

barnold fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jun 25, 2021

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barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




On TPM 2.0 and its requirement for Windows 11:

Klyith posted:

For now I would add a note to the top of the OP that people should not go buy stuff right now -- TPM modules, new CPUs, any new hardware -- on the basis of the official "system requirements".

If the Health Check app says your PC does not meet the requirements for Windows 11, don't panic. Chill and wait for clarity.

Your PC probably has TPM already, you just need to figure out the right BIOS settings to enable it.
The list of supported CPUs on Microsoft's site is stupidly small, older CPUs will definitely work.
There will probably be methods to install Win11 on "unsupported" systems. Example

You can download the Windows 11 Health Check to check your PC's compatibility here: https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp

barnold fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 25, 2021

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Must support TPM 1.2 but will show a warning if not 2.0

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


barnold posted:

Internet Explorer will be disabled by default on new installs.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012



barnold posted:

The taskbar can only be aligned to the bottom of the screen (RIP to side taskbar users. I'm sorry for your loss).
I know I was the only top aligned taskbar person out there but still

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



MikusR posted:

Must support TPM 1.2 but will show a warning if not 2.0

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/

A whole lot of devices are not gonna be able to pass that "soft floor," considering the oldest compatible consumer intel CPUs are the 8000 series from 2017. I wonder why that's where the "soft floor" is, and what adverse affects there will be of having an older CPU.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE





Taco Defender

No folders in the start menu is gonna be weird. I don't really do much other than search these days, but still.

I do wish they'd had some more news on ARM Windows, though. I'm looking forward to my next laptop upgrade, but it's gonna be an ARM Mac, so I'd really like there to be some sort of version of Windows I can virtualize for the rare times when I need to use it. Though, that kinda also depends on ARM drivers being made available for the bizarre hardware I need Windows for, and I dunno how soon that'll happen.

doctorfrog
Mar 14, 2007

Great.



Mecca-Benghazi posted:

I know I was the only top aligned taskbar person out there but still

Emotion seconded, hoping for a workable hack by the time I get around to adopting.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




Mecca-Benghazi posted:

I know I was the only top aligned taskbar person out there but still

My work computer is set up to have the taskbar on top, but that's because our stupid rear end IT department provisioned so many dumb apps that pop up little toast notifications that are hard-coded to show up at the bottom of the screen that it made it absolutely impossible to keep track of stuff over the course of the day because the taskbar would invariably be hidden 60% of the time

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Kreeblah posted:

I do wish they'd had some more news on ARM Windows, though. I'm looking forward to my next laptop upgrade, but it's gonna be an ARM Mac, so I'd really like there to be some sort of version of Windows I can virtualize for the rare times when I need to use it.

You can already virtualize Windows Arm. And fall update should bring x64 emulation in addition to 32bit one.
As for news Windows 11 will allow 64bit arm programs use x64 dlls.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


For now I would add a note to the top of the OP that people should not go buy stuff right now -- TPM modules, new CPUs, any new hardware -- on the basis of the official "system requirements".

If the Health Check app says your PC does not meet the requirements for Windows 11, don't panic. Chill and wait for clarity.


Your PC probably has TPM already, you just need to figure out the right BIOS settings to enable it.
The list of supported CPUs on Microsoft's site is stupidly small, older CPUs will definitely work.
There will probably be methods to install Win11 on "unsupported" systems. Example

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

Pillbug

Count me in the 'sad about no side taskbar' crew unfortunately, but I'll probably still upgrade to W11 when it's offered since I'm pretty lightweight on requirements as long as it runs games and dev stuff just fine.

barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




Klyith posted:

For now I would add a note to the top of the OP that people should not go buy stuff right now -- TPM modules, new CPUs, any new hardware -- on the basis of the official "system requirements".

If the Health Check app says your PC does not meet the requirements for Windows 11, don't panic. Chill and wait for clarity.


Your PC probably has TPM already, you just need to figure out the right BIOS settings to enable it.
The list of supported CPUs on Microsoft's site is stupidly small, older CPUs will definitely work.
There will probably be methods to install Win11 on "unsupported" systems. Example

Good call. I've made the note about TPM a little clearer in the OP and added this post as the first quote in the FAQ area. Thanks!

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Falcon2001 posted:

Count me in the 'sad about no side taskbar' crew unfortunately,

wait what the gently caress?!

ok gently caress that, I've been side taskbar since 7 & widescreen monitors. literally a deal-breaker for me.

looks like I'll be considering some other options or becoming one of the people using some program that hacks the OS into using old UI

barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




Klyith posted:

looks like I'll be considering[...]becoming one of the people using some program that hacks the OS into using old UI

one of us! one of us! one of us!

Fats
Oct 13, 2006

What I cannot create, I do not understand

Fun Shoe

It seems odd they're trying to do CPU compatibility by model number and not just supported features.

On the plus side, this did make me realize my TPM wasn't enabled at all, along with secure boot, whatever the point of that is.

Typical
Mar 19, 2007

One day, I will have
awesome line quality.
Then I'll be cool.

big oof about the task bar, I've been loving my tripple monitor set up with a task bar all the way on the right hand side for years now. it works really well because I want my middle screen which is a cintiq to have 100% of the screen real estate for drawing. I suppose I can put it on one of the side monitors, but it really looked quite nice vertical and on the right. oh well, not the end of the world.

Typical fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jun 25, 2021

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009



I turned on TPM and secure boot and all that and everything seems to be in order, but it still says my computer isn't ready. Sure would be nice if there was any info whatsoever in this loving tool

ghostinmyshell
Sep 17, 2004



I am very particular about biscuits, I'll have you know.


Hakkesshu posted:

I turned on TPM and secure boot and all that and everything seems to be in order, but it still says my computer isn't ready. Sure would be nice if there was any info whatsoever in this loving tool

Same, I have no idea why any of the computers I tested it on failed the check. Sure is a helpful tool.

Dylan16807
May 12, 2010


Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

A whole lot of devices are not gonna be able to pass that "soft floor," considering the oldest compatible consumer intel CPUs are the 8000 series from 2017. I wonder why that's where the "soft floor" is, and what adverse affects there will be of having an older CPU.

The list that says 8000 or higher is for OEMs making new systems, not for the OS itself.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Try running tpm.msc and see if Windows has blacklisted your TPM due to known vulnerabilities

If so then a BIOS update might fix it if you're using firmware TPM

SRQ
Nov 9, 2009



I find it funny that Microsoft seems to be on this plan:
Support Windows 10 to 2025 and shunt all the legacy users and long-term support into that.
Release Windows 11 and cut the legacy cruft out.

except they... aren't really changing anything significant outside of a new coat of paint for 11. Kinda missing the opportunity here!

BoosterDuck
Mar 2, 2019


hilarious how microsoft is treating 11 as the glow-up 10 should've gotten a long rear end time ago but apparently most 10 users wont get it because of some stupid mobo module that only super nerds will be able to configure

SRQ
Nov 9, 2009



BoosterDuck posted:

hilarious how microsoft is treating 11 as the glow-up 10 should've gotten a long rear end time ago but apparently most 10 users wont get it because of some stupid mobo module that only super nerds will be able to configure

you need to go re-read the op

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE





Taco Defender

MikusR posted:

You can already virtualize Windows Arm. And fall update should bring x64 emulation in addition to 32bit one.
As for news Windows 11 will allow 64bit arm programs use x64 dlls.

Oh, that's awesome to hear about 64-bit software. At that point, drivers are going to be my only real concern, so hopefully my poo poo gets ARM drivers (which it probably won't, since it's all niche stuff like multimeters, a KryoFlux unit, and so on).

I thought it wasn't possible to buy ARM Windows outside of an OEM, though. Or does it just use the same keys?

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Kreeblah posted:

At that point, drivers are going to be my only real concern, so hopefully my poo poo gets ARM drivers (which it probably won't, since it's all niche stuff like multimeters, a KryoFlux unit, and so on).
For that you use a dedicated not network connected pc that runs whatever misconfigured/old version of windows they support.

Kreeblah posted:

I thought it wasn't possible to buy ARM Windows outside of an OEM, though. Or does it just use the same keys?

You can't buy. You

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Fats posted:

On the plus side, this did make me realize my TPM wasn't enabled at all, along with secure boot, whatever the point of that is.

pretty much zero on a home system

secure boot is mostly good for preventing you from booting to a linux live usb or anything that's not Big Corporate approved


barnold posted:

one of us! one of us! one of us!

hey I used to run litestep on my XP install, I've always been that guy

the last 2 windows I've used have been good enough that I didn't need to

AgentCow007
May 20, 2004
TITLE TEXT

SRQ posted:

you need to go re-read the op

If I'm not mistaken, desktop motherboards don't include TPMs at all, so 1.2 vs 2.0 is still irrelevant.

MH Knights
Aug 4, 2007



barnold posted:

one of us! one of us! one of us!

Count me in as someone who trys to make the UI to look as Win2000-ish as possible.

Win11 does not excite me at all and I will hold off on upgrading.

henpod
Mar 7, 2008

Sir, we have located the Bioweapon.

College Slice

I'm a shallow man who likes pretty technology and software so I am looking forward to this.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



I'm not clear on where the Android apps are coming from - it sounds like it's from Amazon via the Windows Store. I avoid Amazon as much as possible, so if it requires something to do with them I'm a little less than thrilled.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


CaptainSarcastic posted:

I'm not clear on where the Android apps are coming from - it sounds like it's from Amazon via the Windows Store. I avoid Amazon as much as possible, so if it requires something to do with them I'm a little less than thrilled.

There probably is sideloading. And the Amazon stuff probably just shows that you can add additional stores to Windows store.
Additionally in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egZ82QGshX8 they show that a store entry can be, for example, simply a link like https://get.videolan.org/vlc/3.0.16/win64/vlc-3.0.16-win64.exe. no manifests or special packaging.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013

Oh? You're
approaching me?


I used to have my taskbar on the side, but after using a touch device where you swipe from the bottom to show the taskbar and having a work machine where I couldn't change the position, I just went back to the bottom taskbar on my home PC and haven't changed it since, you get used to it again pretty quickly.

henpod posted:

I'm a shallow man who likes pretty technology and software so I am looking forward to this.

Big same. I love the tactile feel of touch interfaces, and the new haptic support on Surface pen they talked about sounds kind of intriguing too. I eventually got rid of my Surface Pro in favour of Android because it was too big and clunky for my needs, but the speed of the new UI and Android support has basically guaranteed that I'll be getting a new tablet this year, either a Surface Go or something in that form factor. I am pumped as hell, this is everything I wanted from Windows since 8.

Uncle Lloyd
Sep 2, 2019



This is all well and good, but will it run Zune?

I'm actually not kidding, I still use the Zune software for music on my desktop.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Big same. I love the tactile feel of touch interfaces, and the new haptic support on Surface pen they talked about sounds kind of intriguing too.
Haptics require new hardware.

On a lighter note: Microsoft sells a 4800$ Surface Studio 2 that has 7th gen intel cpu. So is not officially supported.

KinkyJohn
Sep 18, 2002



Being an ultra widescreen user, I have a lot more real estate to spare on the sides of the screen, so putting the taskbar there works really well. gently caress you microsoft

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


AgentCow007 posted:

If I'm not mistaken, desktop motherboards don't include TPMs at all, so 1.2 vs 2.0 is still irrelevant.

ryzen cpu's have a firmware tpm though, and i believe many intel cpu's may have that too, although you probably have to enable it in bios (platform trust technology or something like that)

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013

Oh? You're
approaching me?


I've been able to activate TPM on my first first gen Ryzen and it registers as 2.0, so if you have a Ryzen then you should be all set.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Any ideas why they might want TPM as standard now? I get using it for BitLocker, but otherwise...?

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barnold
Dec 16, 2011

...but i didnt finish




I've enabled my AMD fTPM and it does show up in Windows as 2.0, but I still don't pass the PC Health check. I think it's because my system has the CSM compatibility on and isn't booting in UEFI mode. But if I toggle UEFI Only in my BIOS, my PC doesn't boot to Windows and only boots back into the BIOS. I'm guessing I hosed this up and installed Windows in non-UEFI mode back when I built this rig so the machine doesn't know where the UEFI partition is but I don't really know how to fix it. Any ideas?

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