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Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

My cause is just...my will is strong...and my gun is very, very large!




Not 100% sure what happened but after being able to play all day I'm suddenly crashing every 10 minutes or so.

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Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Lt. Lizard posted:

Could you post an update once you played a bit more? My main worry is that my specs are too low to play the game, but my setup is pretty similar to yours, so if you have no issues with running it, I might actually end up buy it.

Sure. So far I haven't been able to play too much. Should be into it more tomorrow. Right now I'm running it on 1680x1050 and its been pretty smooth. I've played about 45 minutes and am what I think is most of the way through the tutorial (ie, the first day where you're led around a lot) and haven't had any major framerate issues or hiccups. I suspect it may get more involved later but I've had a fight against...7ish? people at once without slowdowns. It still looks great on low settings too.

I'll let you know after I get a bit farther too, in case everything goes to poo poo later on.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!


hosed up there is no photo mode. Is there even a way to get rid of the hud?

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



Thanks to Juliana invading while I was fighting a visionary, I ended up with two slabs, a purple nailgun that adds a DoT so even non-headshots are fatal, and a purple Fourpounder whose bullets explode into toxic aoe clouds that kill everything. And also enough Residium to infuse 3 of my 4 treasures so far.

I've played about ~8 hours so far and here are some more longform thoughts on the game's difficulty.

If you've been reading this thread or about this game in general you're aware of the discussion around its difficulty. In short, the gunplay, combat, and enemy AI are absurdly easy - like, completely non-challenging. As an example, enemies have no idea how to handle being sniped, it's extremely easy for you to just tuck yourself in some hidden corner of a room (above ground level) and snipe everyone with a silenced pistol, they are unlikely to find you and if they do find you it takes them a very long time to recognize you and start shooting.

At first I was very put off by this, but the more I've played the more I feel like it's intentional - the combat, and the Eternalists, are not supposed to be a challenge for you. They are not supposed to make it hard to progress through loops or bar your progress.

One of the main challenges is intended to be player-controlled Juliana and I think that's a neat concept, but I admit I turned off multiplayer after my first ~5 invasions (3 as an invader, 2 as an invadee). My problem with it is that you can just press F to instakill melee attack each other in multiplayer, same as with random mooks. Guns are relatively non-damaging (except headshots) and there's enough cover and mobility in this game to make them a poor deterrent against a human player, so all 5 of my invasions were all about instakill melee attacks and it totally killed the fun for me.

The other, and more interesting, main challenge is unravelling the loop. This is where it gets interesting - despite combat being so easy, you need to be smarter than just killing things to progress. One example is that there's an NPC that I need to do something at a later point in the day - the problem is that he dies (without player involvement) in the morning. He hangs out with one of the visionaries that morning and if you go in guns blazing to kill the visionary, you'll kill him too (because he's one of the mook guards). So now I need to find a way to get in, stop him from dying, and preserve him into later in the loop, and also to figure out whether I should kill that visionary or not while I do it, and several other puzzles regarding the same encounter.

I am not far enough progression-wise to know how this holds up throughout the game, but framing this game more as a puzzle game about understanding and breaking the loop where puzzle-solving consists of FPS gameplay, than as an FPS about a time loop (because the FPS bits are laughably non-challenging and not "gamey" on their own) has really increased my enjoyment of it.


There's a time loop movie on Netflix called ARQ and if you've seen that - this game is surprisingly similar in theme and concept and execution . Yes, killing the bad guy is easy, but it always turns out to be about more than killing the bad guy, and you might achieve "victory" in one loop only to learn new information that turns what felt like victory into a loss as you realize you need to do it again, differently.


So far I haven't seen enemies get more difficult as visionaries die, but they do start carrying stronger guns and therefore doing more damage if they shoot you. I don't think anyone should go into this game if what they want is a challenging stealth action shooter, but just because the shooting isn't challenging doesn't mean it's not cerebrally challenging from a puzzle-solving perspective and that it's not engaging to interact with and figure out. Just be aware of what you're buying I guess and maybe wait a few days to see how people feel after beating the game :shrug:

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Sep 14, 2021

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010








agreed deep dish peat moss - i like that essentially there's no barrier to just mowing down guys early until you realize you might have to do some parts quiet to achieve a specific objective

fadam
Apr 23, 2008



Do you ever unlock a map that shows your location and where all the exits/objectives are?

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



fadam posted:

Do you ever unlock a map that shows your location and where all the exits/objectives are?

Not that I know of, but whenever you overhear/read a clue it will be added as a lead in your journal (press J on pc) and you can 'track' a lead to see a compass marker and distance. You can track exits as well somehow, I think maybe by just not having any tracked leads.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008



deep dish peat moss posted:

Not that I know of, but whenever you overhear/read a clue it will be added as a lead in your journal (press J on pc) and you can 'track' a lead to see a compass marker and distance. You can track exits as well somehow, I think maybe by just not having any tracked leads.

drat, that's too bad. I find games like this really disorienting without a map.

Palpek
Dec 27, 2008


Do you feel it, Zach?
My coffee warned me about it.




I'm about 7 hours in and while I still think the piss easy gameplay is a problem and the game could achieve the exact same thing that deep dish peat moss is talking about while having more challenging combat - I'm slowly just accepting it for what it is. Like, I don't see the decision to make it super unchallenging to be some clever grand scheme even if there are moments that benefit from it. It's just that I'm focusing on the detective aspect of the game more and treating combat as a side thing that you just go through on your way and the more godlike you are with your weapons and powers the faster you can get it over with and I'm starting to be ok with it.

To change the subject - I couldn't put my finger on it for the longest time but this game gave me some nostalgic vibes and I finally remembered what it was - motherfucking NOLF. This game is totally sending some NOLF vibes my way being an FPS with a funky retro setting, humor and a bit of spy vs spy atmosphere and snappy dialogues. Sure it's not exactly the same thing, there are superpowers instead of wacky spy gadgets and Deathloop is its own entire universe but I like that correlation. I used to think about what a modern NOLF sequel could look like and this is close enough.

Gadzuko
Feb 14, 2005


fadam posted:

drat, that's too bad. I find games like this really disorienting without a map.

There are maps in every zone that you can find to add to your journal, with points of interest highlighted in red. It doesn't show your location or any real time info but it helps.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



I think the weak combat is a bigger hamper if you play slowly like in other immersive sims and try to explore everything all at once. If you try to explore everything and be super cautious, the pacing is whack because there are no interesting combat encounters to shake up the monotony of slow-crawl exploration and the enemies aren't dangerous enough to create any tension (also there's not much in the way of non-mechanical reward for exploration), then you're just going to be re-exploring the same places in future loops. You're going to be revisiting each area so many times that I decided to throw caution into the wind and do minimal exploration each loop - doing a quick scan for readable notes, but focused on chasing leads and leaving large swaths of each map to be explored later. It feels better as a fast-paced game than a slow exploration-focused game.

Eternalists are like Goombas in a Mario game - how often does a Goomba actually kill you? Despite not being threatening, they're part of the environmental puzzle and they serve their purpose. One of the purposes the enemies in Deathloop serve is reinforcing the theme that despite this being a game about non-stop violence and killing, violence doesn't solve anything in a time loop. Also if the enemies were dangerous enough to be ending my runs this game would probably take me forever to beat :sweatdrop:

That being said I 100% agree that stronger combat, or especially a separate mode with stronger and more focused combat and a multiplayer casual-competitive focus would be incredible. With as complex as the loop-solving seems from this early perspective I don't think I'll want to go through it all a second time, but I love the idea of intense single-mission asynchronous pvp cat and mouse sniper/trap/stealth battles in the context of a stealth action game and that's what I was really hoping for out of Deathloop. I'm disappointed that I didn't get that, but I don't think I'm disappointed in what I did get (still too early to be sure).


e: I read some interview with one of the level designers for mario games once where they talked about the value of non-challenging enemy encounters like Goombas and how an enemy doesn't need to be difficult to defeat to be a fun challenge, it can be a fun challenge through things like making the player change their pace, creating a hurdle to consider while solving a different problem, or even giving the player an easy challenge to overcome as a reward for overcoming previous more difficult challenges. I don't think Deathloop's enemies quite nail what they're going for on the first two points but they work best when viewed in the context of Goombas and other non-challenging enemies. They are there to facilitate gameplay and be an interim objective, but they're not the gameplay in and of themselves.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Sep 14, 2021

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004



Fun Shoe

Well drat, going to Karl's Bay in the morning tanks my framerate down to the low 30's despite everywhere else I've been in the game until now being a solid 60. It's completely unplayable like that, with the framerate going to poo poo if I look towards the middle of the map. :sigh:

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

My cause is just...my will is strong...and my gun is very, very large!




Yeah the guards seem to be set up as obstacles rather than opponents, I guess because eventually players will be expected to fly through levels over and over. I wouldn't have minded if they were more harder and a little more clockwork like Hitman characters.

Because I was crashing so often and was trying different troubleshooting runs with options on or off I can kill one of what seems like one of the easier targets in about 5-10 minutes. If you want to leg it to something in a level and you seem to know it you can really really go fast. I've no idea what that means for me sticking with the game yet, that's either going to be fun or too easy.

I will say my big hope for the rest of the game (asides from patches) is that it seems to be an answer to an issue I have with immersive sims. I really like to explore and to mess about with options but it means there's an equal chance of me hitting any one encounter either head on in a very satisfying stealth and full combat kind of outcome, in some really stupid way by like throwing a heap of sentry turrets into a room for a laugh or by shooting a boss for 10 minutes in the shin from a vent. It can leave me feeling like I've done an encounter the wrong way and that I'm not experiencing the game right. So far I've not been worried nearly at all because I know I'm going to hit this encounter again later, which is a relief tbh.


Oh and I've noticed, and I dunno if this is a bug or not but if I start hacking and then slide back into cover with the button held down I seem to safely finish the hack even though the ui doesn't show it's progress.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



Shoehead posted:

Oh and I've noticed, and I dunno if this is a bug or not but if I start hacking and then slide back into cover with the button held down I seem to safely finish the hack even though the ui doesn't show it's progress.

I think this is intentional. There's a line of green dots across the bottom of the hackamajig that shows your hacking progress that you can use to track it when out of LoS. If you had to stay in LoS hacking turrets would be very hard but then again maybe that would be a good thing :v:

Bardeh posted:

Well drat, going to Karl's Bay in the morning tanks my framerate down to the low 30's despite everywhere else I've been in the game until now being a solid 60. It's completely unplayable like that, with the framerate going to poo poo if I look towards the middle of the map. :sigh:

I had the same problem but updating my video drivers fixed it. I had very outdated drivers (so outdated that the game warned me via popup when I first launched it) so I keep mentioning this in case someone else didn't get a popup but still needs to update

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 14, 2021

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

I canne has csebuf?





Carmant posted:

What's Updaam?

Shoehead posted:

What's Updaam?

I went searching through the forums to find whether there was a thread for the game yet where I could make this joke :v:

Anyways I'm having a really good time with the game, except for the tiny font.

Lemon
May 22, 2003



fadam posted:

drat, that's too bad. I find games like this really disorienting without a map.

me too, so I made this. might contain spoilers for things not found yet

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004



Fun Shoe

deep dish peat moss posted:

I had the same problem but updating my video drivers fixed it. I had very outdated drivers (so outdated that the game warned me via popup when I first launched it) so I keep mentioning this in case someone else didn't get a popup but still needs to update

I have the latest drivers, but it appears to have been a bug or maybe a memory leak or something because quitting to desktop and restarting the game fixed it.

Gadzuko
Feb 14, 2005


Pro tip: deployed turrets have batteries in them. Batteries are very useful!

E: field nullifiers too

Gadzuko fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Sep 14, 2021

mistermojo
Jul 3, 2004



this game is very cool once you wrap your head around it. their level design shines when you go through areas over and over again and dont just need to get to the end to kill the target

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012



i love the game so far but i just hit a loving lovely glitch. i lost the scanner that will teach me to absorb residuim and keep weapons and the quest says "just do it in a new loop" well it wont loving reactivate even after like 5 new loops. am i doing something wrong?

poe meater
Feb 17, 2011


How much trolling can you do as an invader?

Hank Morgan
Jun 17, 2007

Light Along the Inverse Curve.


Game is pretty cool so far. Arkane don't disappoint.

Really does feel like they took Dishonoured levels and slapped a grindhouse aesthetic over them with a bit of Lost thrown into the mix. My current loadout is a heavy pistol that spawns a cloud of gas on impact. Works great especially when enemies are standing near a flame but the downside is it's a liability at close range. Most of my deaths so far have been caused by it. Not seen much of Julianna yet. What causes her to appear? Is it random or based on progression.

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?



Legendary/Gold weapons have randomized special effects on them as I have learned.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011


Ytlaya posted:

IIRC doesn't the game world become noticeably shittier if you kill a bunch of people? That seems pretty close to just declaring a "right way" vs "wrong way."

More bodies = more plague. That's the in-game justification, at least.

This game looks really interesting but reading the few most recent pages I think I'll wait to see how it pans out over the next week, not in the least because I'm not sure my graphics card can handle it & I'm not spending oodles of cash for a new one.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator



poe meater posted:

How much trolling can you do as an invader?

A fair amount. I killed the visionary, let them hack the antenna and just waited for them at the exit and killed them with a shotgun repeatedly.

ShadowMar
Mar 2, 2010

HERE IS A
GRAVEYARD
OF YOU!


I am in complete disbelief that you can disguise yourself as Colt while invading and that two people have actually fallen for it and assumed I was a friendly alt-timeline Colt.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan



ShadowMar posted:

I am in complete disbelief that you can disguise yourself as Colt while invading and that two people have actually fallen for it and assumed I was a friendly alt-timeline Colt.

Lol this is great

Hokkaido Anxiety
May 21, 2007

slub club 2013


ShadowMar
Mar 2, 2010

HERE IS A
GRAVEYARD
OF YOU!


poe meater posted:

How much trolling can you do as an invader?



If you can get Colt to run into one of these and die within range it will absolutely instantly ruin their loop.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk! Clunk Clunk!



I can't really get a read on how much I should be going off the beaten path. the objectives are very point a to b, but there's a bunch of other places to go, that mostly feel like they will come in play later, so I haven't been very thorough. But I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do or if I should be checking the whole area out as much as the game will let me.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007



This game feels like it may fill that shadow of murder itch

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007



Although I'm not far does it allow for slabs to be kept across loops?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



Oven Wrangler

Submarine Sandpaper posted:

Although I'm not far does it allow for slabs to be kept across loops?

Once you get the ability to infuse weapons to keep them across loops you can do the same thing with slabs.

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?



veni veni veni posted:

I can't really get a read on how much I should be going off the beaten path. the objectives are very point a to b, but there's a bunch of other places to go, that mostly feel like they will come in play later, so I haven't been very thorough. But I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do or if I should be checking the whole area out as much as the game will let me.

I would say wait until you unlock the ability to keep items through loops before you go crazy exploring. It's worth rushing a bit to get to that point.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

Clunk! Clunk Clunk!



Pwnstar posted:

I would say wait until you unlock the ability to keep items through loops before you go crazy exploring. It's worth rushing a bit to get to that point.

You mean after the first area? I think I'm in the third or 4th hard checkpoint, so I was able to make a loadout for the last 2 areas.

Unless you mean something else.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



Oven Wrangler

veni veni veni posted:

You mean after the first area? I think I'm in the third or 4th hard checkpoint, so I was able to make a loadout for the last 2 areas.

Unless you mean something else.

You can set your loadout whenever you move to a new time of day, but eventually you'll also get the ability to carry over certain items to the next loop after the day resets (because normally you just lose it all). I also recommend trying to do that before getting too into exploration.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!


After unlocking the ability to infuse things, how do you actually do it?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



Oven Wrangler

Countblanc posted:

After unlocking the ability to infuse things, how do you actually do it?

In your loadout screen between outings there's a big button that says INFUSE iirc that shows your current Residuum.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001





Pillbug

https://twitter.com/DaveOshry/status/1437775024778354690?s=20

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Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008



Does this game pwn?

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