|
Lmao that Marvel ended another movie with something enormous falling out of the sky. Also amazed that after all the poo poo with Yelena wanting to kill the head of the Widow program for what he forced her to do, the stinger just has her being a loving hired assassin. Like, she’s got no problem with it as long as she’s getting paid? Or she was just upset that she couldn’t negotiate her own contracts? It made her entire arc feel like a complete waste of time.
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 22:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
So assuming the ending along with the ending of F&WS is setting up Dark Avengers, who would the other ones be? For Iron Man I guess they could bring back Jeff Bridges as Iron Monger, and Abomination was in the Shang-chi trailer so he could be Hulk, but there's not really anyone for Thor or Hawkeye(unless they're introduced in Thor 4 and the Hawkeye TV show). EDIT: Meant to post this in the comic book movies thread but it works here too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 22:35
|
|
|
Splint Chesthair posted:Lmao that Marvel ended another movie with something enormous falling out of the sky. It's just like comic books nothing really changes and things get reset by the time the story arc is done. Just the general idea or notion of who the character is - is there that's familiar to audiences.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 22:37
|
|
|
Love to tease a TV show on the premise that its conflict will result from an unambiguous lie that can be resolved with a quick conversation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Love to tease a TV show on the premise that its conflict will result from an unambiguous lie that can be resolved with a quick conversation. I didn't realize the Hawkeye show was going to be Netflix Marvel instead of Disney+.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2021 23:53
|
|
|
RatHat posted:So assuming the ending along with the ending of F&WS is setting up Dark Avengers, who would the other ones be? For Iron Man I guess they could bring back Jeff Bridges as Iron Monger, and Abomination was in the Shang-chi trailer so he could be Hulk, but there's not really anyone for Thor or Hawkeye(unless they're introduced in Thor 4 and the Hawkeye TV show). Jeff Bridges has cancer and is most likely not up for something as arduous as a Marvel movie. It won't be him. I can see Sam Rockwell coming back for something though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 00:01
|
|
|
Splint Chesthair posted:Lmao that Marvel ended another movie with something enormous falling out of the sky. Well he was literally mind controlling her into being his puppet. She clearly enjoys fighting and killing, and is good at it too. Not surprising she continued to do so, Natasha got out and continued to effectively be an assassin. Both of them clearly are happy to use their skills and training, on their own terms for their own interests.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
Chris James 2 posted:I enjoyed the film. I'm a big Florence Pugh fan and her performance was definitely the best part. Third act was underwhelming but the post-credits scene was my favorite in a long time I like her too but they really should've just let her not do the russian accent and explained it away somehow. Splint Chesthair posted:Lmao that Marvel ended another movie with something enormous falling out of the sky. Neo Rasa posted:I didn't realize the Hawkeye show was going to be Netflix Marvel instead of Disney+. I don't believe this is true. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jul 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 01:06
|
|
|
Sucked massive rear end. I was down for the first half of the movie. The 2nd half though was an exercise in "Just because you could, doesn't mean you should." This part of the movie begins at the end of the Budapest chase when their car hilariously plops down into the subway. Also, how someone looked at the visual effects in this movie (especially the red room poo poo) and said "Yes, this is releasable in the year of our lord 2021" is beyond me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 01:44
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:I don't believe this is true. It's a joke. The Netflix Marvel shows had their own quirks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 02:31
|
|
|
This was a very odd movie. It felt like it was a sequel to a movie that had never been written, and I've seen nearly every MCU movie. It felt like there was some sort of 'flashforward' or something was supposed to happen and it never did. Nevertheless, Florence Pugh stole the show, she was downright hilarious. Not really sure where she acquired her droll sense of humor when she presumably spent her entire life brainwashed, but ah well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 03:09
|
|
|
I'll echo the sentiments that the film feels out of synch with the rest of the MCU. It feels less like an important chapter of Natasha's journey and more like an anecdote Yelena tells the Avengers at her wake while Red Guardian harasses Bucky about whether Cap talked about him. But I liked the core film outside of the odd intro and outro. Pugh is absolutely the star and her and the sister relationship are the heart of the film. Harbour's great. I enjoyed the action fine even if there's nothing super memorable. I'm excited to know we'll see Yelena again in a few months. I optimistic we'll see Red Guardian somewhere. I'm open to seeing Taskmaster again and seeing the character evolve into a better one. I thought O.T. Fagbenle felt a little odd in the film. Like he was fine but he felt like a more important character than he was? It feels like there's a whole backstory and relationship we missed there. And I mean, Nat lived a big life. I'm sure there's a lot of people. It just felt odd to me like I was waiting for him to become a bigger deal or something. I dunno. Its definitely mid tier MCU. A perfectly satisfying action flick and I might pop it back on soon to rewatch the action scenes or some of the better Pugh scenes. Probably not gonna become a favorite or anything. Teen Spirit wasn't good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 03:44
|
|
|
Nightmare Cinema posted:Also, how someone looked at the visual effects in this movie (especially the red room poo poo) and said "Yes, this is releasable in the year of our lord 2021" is beyond me. MCU movie effects have gotten gradually worse overall over time so I think they really did say this. By the time a fifth Avengers movie is out it will be in full Hideaway/Ghost in the Machine level bad CG and still make a billion dollars. I think Guardians 2 and Dr. Strange are the only ones that kind of avoided this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 03:47
|
|
|
Nikumatic posted:I absolutely love Florence Pugh and loved her in this movie, but as the one person on Earth who still loves Killing Eve even through season 3 I want to live in the alternate timeline where they got Jodie Comer to play Yelena instead. I was thinking they totally developed this movie while Killing Eve was hot poo poo and totally aped Villianelle for Yelena.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 04:49
|
|
|
Mike N Eich posted:This was a very odd movie. It felt like it was a sequel to a movie that had never been written, and I've seen nearly every MCU movie. Because it is. A lot of what happens in this movie is a result of what Hawkeye and Black Widow did in Budapest. It's directly referenced here and mentioned in some of the prior movies. Setting the movie between Civil War and Infinity War is an odd move for sure. The movie would have worked so much easier if it was a prequel telling the story of how Natasha became an Avenger. That could have had nearly all the same plot beats, just with everything taking place in 2007 or whatever (I'm guessing she became an Avenger before the events of Iron Man). Instead the movie we got is wrapping up loose ends for stuff we never really knew that much about anyway. As for the visual effects being crap, Disney knows this and doesn't care. No one watches these movies for the VFX. They watch them to see their punchmans punch each other. As long as the FX are good enough, the general audience doesn't care either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 05:10
|
|
|
why do all the russians use Nato weapons
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 11:54
|
|
|
Jose Oquendo posted:Because it is. A lot of what happens in this movie is a result of what Hawkeye and Black Widow did in Budapest. It's directly referenced here and mentioned in some of the prior movies. It was nice knowing more about Budapest, but it would been better to get more flashbacks. I guess putting off BW movie until Phase 4 makes it feel this way, instead of right after Civil War. While watching I was sometimes reminded of Atomic Blonde, some of the action scenes seemed a bit inspired by it, but not being visceral enough, even with the different rating.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 12:07
|
|
|
Jose Oquendo posted:Because it is. A lot of what happens in this movie is a result of what Hawkeye and Black Widow did in Budapest. It's directly referenced here and mentioned in some of the prior movies. Nat was a (non-Nazi) SHIELD operative by the time of Iron Man II. She wasn't an Avenger until, well, The Avengers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 12:08
|
|
|
Kal-L posted:It was nice knowing more about Budapest, but it would been better to get more flashbacks. I guess putting off BW movie until Phase 4 makes it feel this way, instead of right after Civil War.  *Budapesht
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 12:15
|
|
|
Everyone posted:Nat was a (non-Nazi) SHIELD operative by the time of Iron Man II. She wasn't an Avenger until, well, The Avengers. In BW, Nat said that after she left the Black Widow program, she went west to become an Avenger. I do believe you're correct though if I remember the details of Iron Man 2. Either way, the movie should have been the story of whatever happened in Budapest and tie that to how she joined Shield or the Avengers, depending on how the writers wanted to tweak all that. Jose Oquendo fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Jul 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 12:25
|
|
|
Jose Oquendo posted:In BW, Nat said that after she left the Black Widow program, she went west to become an Avenger. I do believe you're correct though if I remember the details of Iron Man 2. Either way, the movie should have been the story of whatever happened in Budapest and tie that to how she joined Shield or the Avengers, depending on how the writers wanted to tweak all that. When they first announced the movie and said it would be a sort of prequel I assumed it would be about the one event from her recent life that's constantly mentioned. Instead we got the... Aftermath of that event I guess? I guess it'd be like making a prequel to the LOTR trilogy, but instead of the Hobbit making it about Bilbo's far less eventful journey to Rivendell in FOTR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 13:37
|
|
|
I feel like as the movie to phase 3 or whatever half the movies in the next 5 years are origin story movies, I think someone probably talked about doing a black widow origin story then said "nope" about doing another origin of one of the longest established characters right in the middle of origin, origin, origin season.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 13:54
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Well he was literally mind controlling her into being his puppet. She clearly enjoys fighting and killing, and is good at it too. Not surprising she continued to do so, Natasha got out and continued to effectively be an assassin. Both of them clearly are happy to use their skills and training, on their own terms for their own interests. That's a fair point. The thing that bothered me is that the stinger changed Yelena's issue with the Widow program from: "They forced me to KILL PEOPLE!" to "They FORCED ME to kill people!" Like up until that point I read her motivation as wanting to be freed from doing inhumane things to other people but in reality she is perfectly find with doing inhumane things to other people so long as she gets to be the one making the choice to do so. But even that doesn't track because at the end of the movie she's getting her marching orders from someone else again, just killing whoever Julia Louis Dreyfus puts in front of her. So getting her free will back is ultimately a cosmetic change for her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 14:44
|
|
|
Being fair, she didn't shy away from violence after being released. It's what she knows and I think even enjoys. More like a soldier who got discharged from the military and became a PMC because they get to choose what they do and finally get paid for it
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Ape Agitator posted:Being fair, she didn't shy away from violence after being released. It's what she knows and I think even enjoys. More like a soldier who got discharged from the military and became a PMC because they get to choose what they do and finally get paid for it Yeah this, she literally responds to Natasha asking her to help destroy the red room (implicitly with assassination and spy-play) with it'll be fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
Splint Chesthair posted:That's a fair point. The thing that bothered me is that the stinger changed Yelena's issue with the Widow program from: "They forced me to KILL PEOPLE!" to "They FORCED ME to kill people!" Like up until that point I read her motivation as wanting to be freed from doing inhumane things to other people but in reality she is perfectly find with doing inhumane things to other people so long as she gets to be the one making the choice to do so. To be fair, her initial sadness/anger was over killing the person who'd freed her from mind control. Meanwhile, figure that whoever she's whacking for JLD are going to be people that JLD has convinced her need to be whacked. She's going after Clint because JLD has apparently convinced her that Clint killed Natasha. How she did that I can't begin to tell you. Nor can I tell you how that motivation is going to survive a 30-second conversation with Clint in the Hawkeye show, but there you go.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
Everyone posted:Nor can I tell you how that motivation is going to survive a 30-second conversation with Clint in the Hawkeye show, but there you go. I'm guessing it's a conversation with Kate Bishop that will handle it, not Clint, but if the point is to recreate the Hawkeye/Black Widow dynamic with younger, cheaper actors, then the conflict being easy to resolve would seem like a plus.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 19:13
|
|
|
I mean we have no real idea who Val's organization are, what Yelena did in the 7 years (or if she got snapped) between this movie and the after credits scene, or what her general state of mind is. We don't even really know what the world outside the Avengers knows about Nat's death. It seems plausible to me that Val can manipulate the information to paint the serial killer who was sent to kill Nat years ago and ended up being the key player in that whole "murder a child and leave" thing as someone Yelena has a lot of unresolved anger and baggage she directs at. That will of course get clarified somehow in the show but Yelena probably won't be introducing herself for awhile.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 21:37
|
|
|
Also after they introduced the concept of Natasha being able to swap faces with other Widows I really expected Yelena to rip her face off at the cemetery. I'm glad she didn't because Yelena's great but it felt like a setup without a payoff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I mean we have no real idea who Val's organization are, what Yelena did in the 7 years (or if she got snapped) between this movie and the after credits scene, or what her general state of mind is. We don't even really know what the world outside the Avengers knows about Nat's death. It seems plausible to me that Val can manipulate the information to paint the serial killer who was sent to kill Nat years ago and ended up being the key player in that whole "murder a child and leave" thing as someone Yelena has a lot of unresolved anger and baggage she directs at. That will of course get clarified somehow in the show but Yelena probably won't be introducing herself for awhile. Either way I think we can all agree that Marvel are cowards for using a photograph of that character that doesn't show off his tattoo
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
That was the same hi-tech mask they used in the second Captain America movie and Falcon/Winter Soldier
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 21:50
|
|
|
Its like basic SHIELD tech. They used it in the show a bunch too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 21:52
|
|
|
stev posted:Also after they introduced the concept of Natasha being able to swap faces with other Widows I really expected Yelena to rip her face off at the cemetery. Set-up to what end? Who did you think would be under the Yelena mask? The only truly dramatic revelation would also be the dumbest one: Yes, that's right! It's me, Natasha. All this time you thought it was me running the Avengers after Infinity War and dying on Vormir, but no, it was my little sister, Yelena, because we swapped places for... reasons. Now I'm back. Also for...reasons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2021 23:26
|
|
|
Everyone posted:Set-up to what end? Who did you think would be under the Yelena mask? I was surprised the private-contractor supply guy added up to so little—everyone else given that much attention was way more important to the plot—so maybe him?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 06:09
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:I was surprised the private-contractor supply guy added up to so little—everyone else given that much attention was way more important to the plot—so maybe him? Yeah, it seemed odd that he didn't factor into the climax and only popped up in a little pre-epilogue bit. I don't really know from much Marvel stuff so he may be important or factor in later, but he for sure stood out in this in an odd way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 07:03
|
|
|
He struck me as odd, like there was some kind of larger subplot he was involved in that got cut or something. But I don't know where he could have fit in. It almost felt like someone added him as a potential love interest and them someone smarter said "no, we don't need that here". So instead he's just some guy who lingers a little bit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 07:15
|
|
|
I think he was just a plot functional character cause they figured they needed to explain where Nat was getting all her gear from
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 07:21
|
|
|
Yeah, it could have just been that there's a pretty minimum of supporting characters who don't fit into the bigger story. But he's on some of the posters and everything. Just seemed like he had an oddly disproportionate presence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 07:27
|
|
|
I was expecting him to be a spy for Red Room, to explain how they kept finding Natasha.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 07:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
STAC Goat posted:He struck me as odd, like there was some kind of larger subplot he was involved in that got cut or something. But I don't know where he could have fit in. It almost felt like someone added him as a potential love interest and them someone smarter said "no, we don't need that here". So instead he's just some guy who lingers a little bit. Yeah, it kinda felt like this. Like, there was some flirting, which was fine, but every scene with him made him seem... more important or something? Like Natasha needed him while she flew under the radar. So the three scenes (or whatever) that he's in are utilitarian for the plot, but also felt like they should have been more important.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2021 07:47
|
|