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Kale
May 14, 2010


Kanos posted:

What? SP Regen's value is absolutely intrinsically tied to how long the mission is in turn count because it only triggers per turn. It doesn't matter if you get to cast flash or focus for "free" if the mission isn't long enough in absolute turn count that you'd run out of SP to do what you need to do before the mission is over.

If Pilot A has 80 SP and Focus for 15, they can cast Focus 5 times before tapping out. If Pilot B has the same capacity and cost and SP Regen, they can cast Focus 16 times before tapping out(net loss of 5 SP per turn). This only really begins to matter when stages are longer than 5 combat turns(because you don't need to cast Focus on turns where you're maneuvering into range). SP Regen might, at most, give you a bit more wiggle room regarding casting Valor in short burn stages, but assuming you're not playing a no-upgrade run, there are almost no bosses in OG1 that can't be killed in like two or three focused combat turns by your entire team, even endgame bosses like Judecca or Septuagint.

Machine guns and shotguns absolutely never lose their punch in OG1 because variable upgrade costs mean they can be max upgraded for peanuts. You can max out two M950s or shotguns and give them to anyone who can equip weapons(which, given that it's OG1, is the vast majority of your roster) for roughly the cost of maxing out a single super robot's finisher, and those M950s have a ton of ammo and ~5000 power and are post movement and cost no morale. They wildly outperform most actual baseline robot attacks, and if you're playing the remake the M950s are even *better* because the bullet crafting system lets you put together some really stupid poo poo like S rank ammo or morale down ammo or armor breaker ammo.

Honestly for 30% HP regen Septugaint or Guneden type Shennagins (that's really the only thing that makes some of them tougher nuts to crack in the series) I just ground and deliberately failed the last mission multiple time to build like 20 or so levels on my main team to where I was always doing solid damage and had a ton of SP to consistently cast things like Valor and Soul and all that jazz. Did the same for the true final boss in SRW X. It makes that sort of poo poo so much easier ultimately.

I'm mostly just glad we're well out of the Winkysoft phase of ridiculous rear end bosses like SRW 4's final one or any late game encounter for that matter (any instance of Granzon let alone Neo is just dumb as all poo poo frankly) where it's dealing in integers to calcuate damage and half the time you can't even see how much damage your doing to tell if it's effective because Winkysoft were horrendously bad developers. Like no idea why it was necessary to not display damage numbers in some of their games or have bosses HP listed as ???? before it fell below 9999 other than to just make it that much more annoying and terrible. This was the era of games where something like say Vigor or Valor cost 80% of your entire SP stock, or where you could take say Combattler V into battle against a Char Red Zaku, have him be utterly unhittable without lockon, barely dent it with Chodenji Spin, and have it just get utterly butt-hosed by a bazooka shot because he's like 20-25 levels above you and the game just calculates damage stuff really really loving weird. Very common to see both one shots or 10 damage and not a whole lot in between.

It was basically like the polar opposite of what it's like now where it can be fairly argued it's too easy, whereas the Winkysoft games were unbalanced as all loving poo poo towards the player half the time and incredibly frustrating to complete.

Kale fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Aug 31, 2021

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WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010




Even on short maps, 30 extra SP is huge. That's the equivalent of 200 PP worth of SP Up and you are getting it for 80. SP Regen is arguably the best value for your PP other than maybe Attacker and it just gets better as the game goes on.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



heck on a 4 turn map, on a unit with valor, sp regen is basically better than attacker. think about it. an extra cast of valor is worth way more than, accounting for the need to build your will up, 2 attacks with attacker.

Alacron
Feb 15, 2007

-->Have tearful reunion with your son
-->Eh

Fun Shoe

If nothing else, SP Regen is worth it just for my peace of mind. Otherwise I get all neurotic about trying to save SP for when I really need it

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled


You glossed over or ignored the entire point of my statement - "free" Flash only matters at all if you are actually running out of SP before the battle is finished, which in OG1 I typically am not because OG1 stages are generally not super long involved messes like OG2's "hello this stage has 4 bosses with 6 digit HP" marathons are. You also almost never need to actually cast defensive seishin in OG1 past the early game once you get some decent units and some upgrades in unless you're swinging for a boss or are having a unit deliberately tank a wave of enemies, so "casting flash/focus every single combat turn on every unit" is already being super generous to SP Regen to begin with because it's just not very necessary.

SP is a resource that exists to be expended. You don't get bonus points for having leftover SP when a stage is finished. I don't really care if my dudes are all tapped out as opposed to having 50% sp remaining in the tank on turn 6 or whatever if the stage is over by then. If you want to get it because it gives you peace of mind or lets you do attrition strategies that you prefer, sure, go ahead! It's not like you need to be hyper optimal to beat the OG games.

OG2 is an entirely different matter, because OG2 has a ton of incredibly drawn out slugfest stages against numerous enemies that are strong enough to demand spell usage to reliably survive/damage, so SP Regen goes from "don't need it at all" to "virtually mandatory".

As for the guns, "less ammo than an M950" is extremely bad because the M950 is a fantastic go-to enemy phase weapon, and the ALL is the entire reason you'd upgrade a shotgun instead of another M950, so discounting those two traits is questionable. I'm also not sure how getting two cheap 4800 power post movement attacks that you can swap between units as you get better ones and use virtually infinitely is going to do less work for you over the course of a playthrough than upgrading a single expensive super robot finisher.

Endorph posted:

heck on a 4 turn map, on a unit with valor, sp regen is basically better than attacker. think about it. an extra cast of valor is worth way more than, accounting for the need to build your will up, 2 attacks with attacker.

Attacker is also mediocre in OG1, IMO. I usually just go for stat upgrades or support attack on people who don't have it because it's fantastic for burning bosses down. Revenge is also nice on specific characters you intend to soak enemy waves because it's dirt cheap and very powerful.

Like SP Regen, I think Attacker gains a lot more value in OG2 because the longer stages mean you're going to be spending more time with it activated.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


Focus loses a lot of it's value around the midgame in OG2. The original OG2 at least. Along the same lines, Concentrate/SP up are cool because they do things like allow Ryusei to use Zeal twice in a turn, instead of once every 6 turns.

Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Aug 31, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


Kanos posted:

You glossed over or ignored the entire point of my statement - "free" Flash only matters at all if you are actually running out of SP before the battle is finished, which in OG1 I typically am not because OG1 stages are generally not super long involved messes like OG2's "hello this stage has 4 bosses with 6 digit HP" marathons are. You also almost never need to actually cast defensive seishin in OG1 past the early game once you get some decent units and some upgrades in unless you're swinging for a boss or are having a unit deliberately tank a wave of enemies, so "casting flash/focus every single combat turn on every unit" is already being super generous to SP Regen to begin with because it's just not very necessary.

SP is a resource that exists to be expended. You don't get bonus points for having leftover SP when a stage is finished. I don't really care if my dudes are all tapped out as opposed to having 50% sp remaining in the tank on turn 6 or whatever if the stage is over by then. If you want to get it because it gives you peace of mind or lets you do attrition strategies that you prefer, sure, go ahead! It's not like you need to be hyper optimal to beat the OG games.

OG2 is an entirely different matter, because OG2 has a ton of incredibly drawn out slugfest stages against numerous enemies that are strong enough to demand spell usage to reliably survive/damage, so SP Regen goes from "don't need it at all" to "virtually mandatory".

As for the guns, "less ammo than an M950" is extremely bad because the M950 is a fantastic go-to enemy phase weapon, and the ALL is the entire reason you'd upgrade a shotgun instead of another M950, so discounting those two traits is questionable. I'm also not sure how getting two cheap 4800 power post movement attacks that you can swap between units as you get better ones and use virtually infinitely is going to do less work for you over the course of a playthrough than upgrading a single expensive super robot finisher.

Attacker is also mediocre in OG1, IMO. I usually just go for stat upgrades or support attack on people who don't have it because it's fantastic for burning bosses down. Revenge is also nice on specific characters you intend to soak enemy waves because it's dirt cheap and very powerful.

Like SP Regen, I think Attacker gains a lot more value in OG2 because the longer stages mean you're going to be spending more time with it activated.

Guess what, with SP Regen you don't ever get tapped out! It means you can play more aggressively and, as people have stated, lets you have more SP to use on other seishin... like offensive ones. Or support ones. And hell, with SRX alone having SP Regen on all three lets you keep up Accelerate, Flash, and more for minimal cost so you can actually use them AND use your SP on important spells. The guy was asking for tips on how to do better. I told him. Just because you 'don't need it' doesn't mean it isn't extremely powerful.

As for that extra ammo? Who gives a poo poo. Resupply is a thing and is very cheap to use because 10 Morale is very easy to gain back. Only in very certain battles in OG2 at the end of the game does Morale become a bit stingy due to the lack of enemies, but that's what SP is for. Also I wasn't talking about a single super robot finisher. There's plenty of robots that have a base-better attacks that are cheap enough that you might as well have 20 uses of them, or are actually free. And if you're draining an entire clip of attacks on the enemy phase alone, then you have a unit that is in the wrong place.

As for Attacker vs Revenge, Revenge is still 40 PP and is only active during counterattacks, so only having it on a couple of characters who you expect to tank is about as far as I go with it. Attacker is on all the time at 130+ morale which is frankly rather trivial to get when it matters and is active when you need it the most: Alpha striking a boss.

Dance Officer posted:

Focus loses a lot of it's value around the midgame in OG2. The original OG2 at least.

Honestly I've found that in OG2 you either need Lock-On or Focus in order to always hit and have solid evasion. Concentrate + Sp Regen makes you able to use them consistently and takes a lot of edge off the difficulty when dealing with tougher mooks.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 31, 2021

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Kchama posted:

Guess what, with SP Regen you don't ever get tapped out! It means you can play more aggressively and, as people have stated, lets you have more SP to use on other seishin... like offensive ones. Or support ones. And hell, with SRX alone having SP Regen on all three lets you keep up Accelerate, Flash, and more for minimal cost so you can actually use them AND use your SP on important spells. The guy was asking for tips on how to do better. I told him. Just because you 'don't need it' doesn't mean it isn't extremely powerful.

As for that extra ammo? Who gives a poo poo. Resupply is a thing and is very cheap to use because 10 Morale is very easy to gain back. Only in very certain battles in OG2 at the end of the game does Morale become a bit stingy due to the lack of enemies, but that's what SP is for. Also I wasn't talking about a single super robot finisher. There's plenty of robots that have a base-better attacks that are cheap enough that you might as well have 20 uses of them, or are actually free. And if you're draining an entire clip of attacks on the enemy phase alone, then you have a unit that is in the wrong place.

Honestly I've found that in OG2 you either need Lock-On or Focus in order to always hit and have solid evasion. Concentrate + Sp Regen makes you able to use them consistently and takes a lot of edge off the difficulty when dealing with tougher mooks.

I mean, the entire thing I'm talking about is playing aggressively. If you're finishing stages in a low amount of turns to the point where SP Regen isn't really paying out, that's the definition of playing aggressively.

Regarding the bolded: OG doesn't have evasion decay(that was invented in Z) so you can very easily have a single upgraded unit with defensive spells up tank and counter an entire enemy wave, which means you don't need to cast defensive spells on anyone else, which means you can spend all of those SP you'd be dunking into Flash/Focus on offensive spells instead! :ssh: That's where having a ton of ammo on a powerful attack with a decent range band really shines, especially since you can spend the PP you'd have spent on SP Up and Regen on Revenge and shooting stat so most of those enemies are going to either die on counters or be on the verge of death and be easily swept up by other people(who won't need defensive seishin to attack them safely because they're low enough to die on the attack) for tasty bites of morale.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Aug 31, 2021

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


Kchama posted:

Honestly I've found that in OG2 you either need Lock-On or Focus in order to always hit and have solid evasion. Concentrate + Sp Regen makes you able to use them consistently and takes a lot of edge off the difficulty when dealing with tougher mooks.

I played a lot of OG2 back in the day and this simply isn't true if you're getting all the battle masteries. Focus falls off a cliff when stuff like R-Schneides shows up.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

I like how we have to go all the way back to vanilla OG2 to even think about pilot skill choice consequences in any capacity. I feel even this discussion is overestimating just how big an impact many of these choices are though. I tell everyone to buy SP Regen just so they can react to all of the random stuff that can happen in that game when playing it for the first time ever.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Rascyc posted:

I like how we have to go all the way back to vanilla OG2 to even think about pilot skill choice consequences in any capacity. I feel even this discussion is overestimating just how big an impact many of these choices are though. I tell everyone to buy SP Regen just so they can react to all of the random stuff that can happen in that game when playing it for the first time ever.

Part of that is that the series has trended easier and part of that is that OG2 was one of the last games where the full gamut of strong abilities like SP Regen and Attacker were actually buyable by the player. Some of the more recent entries with PP shaved down the list of buyables to an absurd degree.

Oblique Angle
Feb 11, 2011

God or the devil? Why not surpass them both?!


Yeah if you don't buy SP Regen your first time through the game you might get to one of the endgame boss rush stages and not have enough SP to burn through Vindel's HP regen and lv9 prevail. Not like I'm speaking from personal experience or anything. :v:

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


The only game that required upgrading units to get everything was like A portable and that was 20 years ago

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Oblique Angle posted:

Yeah if you don't buy SP Regen your first time through the game you might get to one of the endgame boss rush stages and not have enough SP to burn through Vindel's HP regen and lv9 prevail. Not like I'm speaking from personal experience or anything. :v:

You should 100% always buy SP Regen in OG2 because the game is basically balanced around you having it.

Vizuyos
Jun 17, 2020

Thank U for reading

If you hated it...
FUCK U and never come back


A free Flash every turn is nice, but it's not all that important against grunt enemies. Especially in OG1, where the grunts aren't that threatening and you don't have many super robots that can't dodge. Focus holds up better since it lasts the whole turn, but in OG1 your main attackers should generally be able to handle grunts just fine without it.

SP Regen is still very nice to have anytime it's available, it's definitely never a bad choice. Spirit commands are good enough that even if you don't really need them for a stage, you'll never feel like the skill is outright dead weight. But in OG1 it's just one powerful option you might take depending on your playstyle and preferred approach, while OG2 makes it a lot more valuable due to the sheer amount of boss-level poo poo that might get thrown at you in a single stage.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Kchama posted:

The length of missions literally doesn't matter with SP Regen.

Misusing "literally" as a superlative is bad enough, but starting a wall of text by misusing literally while being factually, observably and literally wrong is some extremely cursed posting.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


Dance Officer posted:

I played a lot of OG2 back in the day and this simply isn't true if you're getting all the battle masteries. Focus falls off a cliff when stuff like R-Schneides shows up.

As someone who played OGs just a couple months ago I was able to have high evasion and accuracy with Focus. Like, 30% for an entire turn for both accuracy and evasion is really strong. For most characters, having it on most of the time made it much easier to use them more aggressively.


Vizuyos posted:

A free Flash every turn is nice, but it's not all that important against grunt enemies. Especially in OG1, where the grunts aren't that threatening and you don't have many super robots that can't dodge. Focus holds up better since it lasts the whole turn, but in OG1 your main attackers should generally be able to handle grunts just fine without it.

SP Regen is still very nice to have anytime it's available, it's definitely never a bad choice. Spirit commands are good enough that even if you don't really need them for a stage, you'll never feel like the skill is outright dead weight. But in OG1 it's just one powerful option you might take depending on your playstyle and preferred approach, while OG2 makes it a lot more valuable due to the sheer amount of boss-level poo poo that might get thrown at you in a single stage.

The point of the free Flash with SP Regen is that it makes it a lot easier to avoid problems for a lot of characters and units. It's a safety measure that lets you spread out your firepower and take minimal damage for your army over the course of the turn. I wouldn't say it is mandatory in OG1, but if someone is asking me how to immediately improve things in OG1, I'd tell them to get SP Regen first and foremost, and absolutely not Revenge.



Kanos posted:

I mean, the entire thing I'm talking about is playing aggressively. If you're finishing stages in a low amount of turns to the point where SP Regen isn't really paying out, that's the definition of playing aggressively.

Regarding the bolded: OG doesn't have evasion decay(that was invented in Z) so you can very easily have a single upgraded unit with defensive spells up tank and counter an entire enemy wave, which means you don't need to cast defensive spells on anyone else, which means you can spend all of those SP you'd be dunking into Flash/Focus on offensive spells instead! :ssh: That's where having a ton of ammo on a powerful attack with a decent range band really shines, especially since you can spend the PP you'd have spent on SP Up and Regen on Revenge and shooting stat so most of those enemies are going to either die on counters or be on the verge of death and be easily swept up by other people(who won't need defensive seishin to attack them safely because they're low enough to die on the attack) for tasty bites of morale.

SP Regen pays out the moment you can use more spells than you otherwise wouldn't be able to. And that's literally every turn with it. Even over the course of 5 turns, you can now cast 50 more SP worth of spells than you could have otherwise.

You're not really dunking much SP into Flash/Focus if you have SP Regen. 0-5 SP isn't really a lot, and if you don't need to use one of them for a turn then well, you just got back back all that SP you sued. Also, you don't use Hot Blood to sweep mooks. 4800 is not really all that powerful of an attack, and its range isn't really all that good either. Whenever I finished sweeping mooks, I'd generally have close to a full pool of SP, which I could then start using to spam Hot Blood or whatever was needed for bosses which made harder bosses a lot easier.

GimmickMan posted:

Misusing "literally" as a superlative is bad enough, but starting a wall of text by misusing literally while being factually, observably and literally wrong is some extremely cursed posting.

I literally don't care, ha!

EDIT: Also the truth of the matter is that you probably don't need much of anything in OG1 because if you are having trouble you can just save-scum your way through it because it is reseeded whenever you do anything at all, so as long as you can possibly dodge or can possibly hit you can just change your chosen attack or chosen defense back and forth and reload until you find the right seed that lets you succeed. I know this because that's how I beat OG back when it came out and I had no idea how to play SRPGs. For like 99% of the game you can get away with that. Not so much in OG2, though.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Aug 31, 2021

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Kchama posted:

SP Regen pays out the moment you can use more spells than you otherwise wouldn't be able to. And that's literally every turn with it. Even over the course of 5 turns, you can now cast 50 more SP worth of spells than you could have otherwise.

You're not really dunking much SP into Flash/Focus if you have SP Regen. 0-5 SP isn't really a lot, and if you don't need to use one of them for a turn then well, you just got back back all that SP you sued. Also, you don't use Hot Blood to sweep mooks. 4800 is not really all that powerful of an attack, and its range isn't really all that good either. Whenever I finished sweeping mooks, I'd generally have close to a full pool of SP, which I could then start using to spam Hot Blood or whatever was needed for bosses which made harder bosses a lot easier.

The entire point is that you don't reach the point where you use more spells than you'd be able to. You don't need to cast defensive spells on anyone who you're not intending to get attacked because you have control over where you position your units. Even playing blind, OG1 basically never completely ambushes you to the point where you have no time to prepare or react and have to be spelled up at all times.

4800 is a top echelon attack in OG1, even before the remake's bullet system comes into play. That's the power of an unupgraded Graviton Launcher - the strongest equippable weapon in OG1 - except it's post movement and effectively free to use. It's stronger than Kyosuke's Square Claymores or the Shishioh Blade until you're like 5 upgrades into those, and has more ammo than the former and better range than both. For the price and the flexibility it provides, it's unbeatable. Almost no in-line robot weapons are on the 110k-to-max upgrade track except moves like the Alt Eisen's wrist machine guns, which are basically just a built-in M950. If you have some counter examples in OG1, I'd love to hear them, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist.

(Also when I was looking up weapon stats to make sure I had my numbers in order, I checked out the G-Revolver and got a big oof - yeah it's 200 more power and slightly more accuracy than the M950 for the same cost, but it's 6 bullets vs 15. That's not a trade I'd be willing to make basically ever.)

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


I just realized I never bothered with the bullet system.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


I've played OGs and I don't even remember the bullet system.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


JamMasterJim posted:

I just realized I never bothered with the bullet system.

Me when I remember Ryukooh has an alt form.

JamMasterJim
Mar 27, 2010


Schwarzwald posted:

Me when I remember Ryukooh has an alt form.

The reverse for me, throw it in a group with range extender and just random spike everything

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

The bullet system is really funny because I get the idea it was some individual dev's pet project that they thought was really neat since it's kind of tacked on and becomes increasingly irrelevant in OG2 as you get more and more robots that can't use equippable weapons. It's really strong for mixing up machine gun bullets, though, since you can get stuff like "lowers enemy stats by 30 points whenever you shoot them" and "armor break level 3 except it's on a machine gun you can spam".

Reiska
Oct 14, 2013


Kchama posted:

I did a quick test with the version you posted and that fixed the issues. They were the same issue, as if I hit Ignore on that error screen I got the textless messed up screen. Thank you very much.

I'm use to multiple year old versions of emulators being far worse, not better than the newer versions. Thank you.

Dolphin 5.0 beta build 14841 works perfectly for me on SRW GC and is considerably newer.

In the meantime, I suggest filing a bug report on their tracker: https://bugs.dolphin-emu.org/projects/emulator

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Caphi posted:

I've played OGs and I don't even remember the bullet system.

He was Kusuha's loser boyfriend, I think.

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013


chiasaur11 posted:

He was Kusuha's loser boyfriend, I think.
:iceburn:

Remind me what his weird accent was for Japanese where he learned it weird?

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Kanos posted:

The bullet system is really funny because I get the idea it was some individual dev's pet project that they thought was really neat since it's kind of tacked on and becomes increasingly irrelevant in OG2 as you get more and more robots that can't use equippable weapons. It's really strong for mixing up machine gun bullets, though, since you can get stuff like "lowers enemy stats by 30 points whenever you shoot them" and "armor break level 3 except it's on a machine gun you can spam".
The other issue with the bullet system is that, IIRC, nearly all of the crafting recipes come with drawbacks that really hinder the crafted bullets (like serious accuracy penalties). Or just weird ones like a reduced morale requirement bonus...when the only equippable weapon that has both an ammo count and comes with a morale requirement is the Remote/Leap/Rip/whatever we're calling it this week Slasher. Something that cannot be upgraded with the bullet system because it doesn't use bullets.

Basically, it was a weird idea that like you said, was almost certainly someone's pet project that nobody had the heart to tell said dev that their idea was not a good one.

Davzz
Jul 31, 2008


AradoBalanga posted:

Or just weird ones like a reduced morale requirement bonus...when the only equippable weapon that has both an ammo count and comes with a morale requirement is the Remote/Leap/Rip/whatever we're calling it this week Slasher. Something that cannot be upgraded with the bullet system because it doesn't use bullets.
As I recall, I believe those burritos are supposed to be used with other ones that increase the morale requirements of a weapon, unless you want to focus the weapon on something else and just not care about that.

Personally I think my main issue is that SRW numbers are so obfuscated by the formulas that it's really hard to get a feel on exactly how much your customizations are doing for you outside of the obvious OP Armor Break down 3 ones etc. For everything else - if I add 100 damage in exchange for -10 crit, is that a good tradeoff? I don't know man, I'm not going to use the scientific method to figure out exactly how many more mooks I'm killing under either condition. In comparison in Fire Emblem if you forge a weapon with 1 more pip of attack than usual you are very aware on which ones it helped to take down where you wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

「俺達の新力だ
真ゲッターロボ!」

Hot take: SRW Z is harder than OGs.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


Lostconfused posted:

Hot take: SRW Z is harder than OGs.

Only in the super early game and without upgrades.

Davzz
Jul 31, 2008


Lostconfused posted:

Hot take: SRW Z is harder than OGs.
Is that a hot take? It's pretty commonly expressed that OGs really neutered the difficulty compared to the original GBA OG (like, you basically don't have to use Armor Drain strategies on that one boss anymore)

Davzz fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Sep 1, 2021

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Lostconfused posted:

Hot take: SRW Z is harder than OGs.

I'd probably rate this as a warm take.

All skill points, yeah, probably, especially if you don't have foreknowledge. My first blind playthrough of Z1 with all skillpoints was really memorable because I had to think about how I was going to deal with some of the bullshit gotcha skill points on the fly even with some fully upgraded units, which is shocking because normally maxing a couple of units causes the difficulty of a given game to drop off a cliff. The game really, really loves "Kill all enemies by turn 5, oh yeah by the way there will be a reinforcement wave on the opposite end of the map on turn 4 hope you didn't commit everyone over there idiot" type gotchas.

Z1 is pretty easy if you don't give a crap about skill points, though, since aside from maybe the Overdevil stage you don't really get into gigantic turbo multi-boss gauntlets that drain your resources away as much.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Lostconfused posted:

Hot take: SRW Z is harder than OGs.

I still have flashbacks to some of those brutal skill points and secrets.

Kitfox88
Aug 20, 2007





Bought Crossrays while its on sale :negative:

General Revil
Sep 29, 2014

"Congratulations! You're all smarter than some of the most brilliant minds on Tendao that worked on this revolutionary project."

Kitfox88 posted:

Bought Crossrays while it’s on sale :negative:

I'm going to. But I'm kicking myself for not buying 30 when it was on sale at gmg. At least there's still a smaller sale on it at humble bundle.

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009




Hello thread I like giant robots and strategy games, and am trying to figure out whether these are good srpg games in addition to being full of cool robots.

Is there substantial mechanical depth here and content that will reward or demand engaging with that depth, or is the experience more advance wars-y? How much time do you expect to sink into one of these games?

SpikeMcclane
Sep 11, 2005

You want the story?
I'll spin it for you quick...


G Gen is a grindy time sink and difficulty depends on what you want to use. It can be very lengthy.

That's not actually done with everything.

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus


Irony.or.Death posted:

Is there substantial mechanical depth here and content that will reward or demand engaging with that depth, or is the experience more advance wars-y?

As a strategy game, modern SRW is extremely easy and straightforward. There's some room for optimization in picking good skills to learn and positioning your units to take advantage of support attack and defense, but it's not the kind of game that really requires much thought or strategy to succeed. The appeal is mainly in the cool robots, good animation, and seeing all the cross-series story and interactions.

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013


Irony.or.Death posted:

Hello thread I like giant robots and strategy games, and am trying to figure out whether these are good srpg games in addition to being full of cool robots.

Is there substantial mechanical depth here and content that will reward or demand engaging with that depth, or is the experience more advance wars-y? How much time do you expect to sink into one of these games?

play Front Mission

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Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013


Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Irony.or.Death posted:

Hello thread I like giant robots and strategy games, and am trying to figure out whether these are good srpg games in addition to being full of cool robots.

Is there substantial mechanical depth here and content that will reward or demand engaging with that depth, or is the experience more advance wars-y? How much time do you expect to sink into one of these games?
play Front Mission
Wait, how Asian do these giant robots have to be? play BattleTech by Hairbrained Schemes

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