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Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



drrockso20 posted:

If I recall correctly isn't part of the problem that going the path for Great Zeorymer also prevents you from getting most of the other secrets in the game

Kinda?

You Stay with the Nadesico at 10 so you can't get Gale or the IWSP pack, you Stay on Earth at 20 so you can't get Gai, and you have to Stay on 31 so you can't get the X Aestivalis or the Layzner Mark II. You can still get Julia, Rapier, Bonta-kun, and, obviously, the secrets whose triggers are after you get Great.

So it's more half and half.

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Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


Getting Great Zeorymer means you're not getting the IWSP pack, Gale in the Greimkaiser and layzner mk2. And the x-aestivalis.

It's not too terrible a price to pay. The X-aestivalis is laughably bad. IWSP is the best pack for the Strike but Kira has Freedom when you get it, so why are you still using Strike? And finally Gale is merely okay, and you can still get the much better Julia.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.




Dance Officer posted:

Getting Great Zeorymer means you're not getting the IWSP pack, Gale in the Greimkaiser and layzner mk2. And the x-aestivalis.

It's not too terrible a price to pay. The X-aestivalis is laughably bad. IWSP is the best pack for the Strike but Kira has Freedom when you get it, so why are you still using Strike? And finally Gale is merely okay, and you can still get the much better Julia.

You also lose Gai, and on a first run he bugs out on recruitment and gets double skill points if you get him.

General Revil
Sep 29, 2014

"Congratulations! You're all smarter than some of the most brilliant minds on Tendao that worked on this revolutionary project."

Vizuyos posted:

If you're gonna be playing through the game four whole times anyway (three times to unlock the Raftclans, a fourth time to actually use it), I think it's just fine to include a secret with unusual conditions. Gives you something to shoot for after you've seen all the other paths, and unlocked all the other secrets.


drrockso20 posted:

If I recall correctly isn't part of the problem that going the path for Great Zeorymer also prevents you from getting most of the other secrets in the game

The routes are pretty cleanly split into the "Most Secrets" and "Great Zeorymer" routes.
Secrets available regardless of route split chosen: Bonta, Rapier, and Allenby. Technically also Julia, but you can't get her and Gale, so she gets lumped in Zeorymer as a pseudo-route exclusive.
Great Zeorymer route: Julia, Balzack, and Great Zeorymer
Most secrets: Everyone else

https://web.archive.org/web/20080225150822/http://ikusagami.info/srwj/?section=walkthrough
That way, you can get every secret over the course of two playthroughs.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010




Dance Officer posted:

Zeorymer is pretty good but it's not on the level of the real wrecking balls in J.

It has a fantastic MAP, a barrier, two pilots and 30% EN regen. It also has Accel and Zeal on a separate pilot from the one who has Valor. It has slightly worse boss damage than the Mazingers if you don't take Zeal into account, I guess. J is a game where a lot of units can wreck shop but I don't think anyone does it better than Zeorymer.

Great Zeorymer probably isn't worth going for from a pure mechanical standpoint, but it is very cool and that counts for something.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


It has a very good MAP that's locked behind 140 will, so it's not very useful. It has 30% EN regen but low total EN for its consumption, both from attacks and DCS.

It does have 2 pilots and in totality a pretty good spirit list, but combattler, voltes and dancouga have more. Like those, it has trouble hitting things and needs to use Strike often. Like most of the supers in the game it needs to rely on spirits to really tank damage, even with its barrier. Though I guess you can savescum DCS dodges. Unlike most supers it only gets guard at level 45. It gets Valor very late, at level 28. That's 3-8 stages after other heavy hitters get it.

Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Sep 26, 2021

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Kchama posted:

Maybe our definitions of 'tedious' differ since that's just playing the game normally except you don't deploy Zeorymer.

Maybe, I like to follow storylines. Not see half of what the G gundam crew is up to, half of what the space crew is doing and then shrugging my shoulders as those plot lines resolve off screen and all the other secrets vanish into the ether so I can unlock this super cool thing I can use for all of like three missions and never again. Which is why this entire conversation started by pointing out how nice it'd be to be able to keep upgrades before it got bogged down in the tedium of people defending their favorite unlockables in J. And if we're going that route I will always argue that just using a cheat device to unlock the raftclans from the start is the best way to play that game because as much as I love the granteed, plot-wise it's really cool and getting to start an absolutely fresh file with it is cool.

Dance Officer posted:

It has a very good MAP that's locked behind 140 will, so it's not very useful. It has 30% EN regen but low total EN for its consumption, both from attacks and DCS.

It does have 2 pilots and in totality a pretty good spirit list, but combattler, voltes and dancouga have more. Like those, it has trouble hitting things and needs to use Strike often. Like most of the supers in the game it needs to rely on spirits to really tank damage, even with its barrier. Though I guess you can savescum DCS dodges. Unlike most supers it only gets guard at level 45. It gets Valor very late, at level 28. That's 3-8 stages before other heavy hitters get it.

On that subject: I always found Combattler, Voltes and Dancouga were weirdly fragile in J and it might have just been how I played but they never seemed as good as other supers like Mazinger, so I wound up shelving them until the game made me use them.

Kitfox88
Aug 20, 2007





Zeorymer and Dancouga have two of the best songs in J though so who cares if they’re fragile.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Nuebot posted:

On that subject: I always found Combattler, Voltes and Dancouga were weirdly fragile in J and it might have just been how I played but they never seemed as good as other supers like Mazinger, so I wound up shelving them until the game made me use them.

Dancouga gets more survivable once it gets it's last upgrade, but the Nagahama boys are absolutely made of tissue paper.

General Revil
Sep 29, 2014

"Congratulations! You're all smarter than some of the most brilliant minds on Tendao that worked on this revolutionary project."

Nuebot posted:


On that subject: I always found Combattler, Voltes and Dancouga were weirdly fragile in J and it might have just been how I played but they never seemed as good as other supers like Mazinger, so I wound up shelving them until the game made me use them.

Multi-pilot supers have a tendency of being fragile to counter the sheer amount of SP they get. You're supposed to use their spirit pool to help tank.

Matthews
Feb 24, 2012


Hunter Noventa posted:



Yeah, the translation certainly exists.

Who is the person Ryusei is talking to?

General Revil
Sep 29, 2014

"Congratulations! You're all smarter than some of the most brilliant minds on Tendao that worked on this revolutionary project."

Matthews posted:

Who is the person Ryusei is talking to?

Akimi Akatsuki, aka Mankimi. He's the male protagonist of SRW GC and XO.

In those two games you pick him or (female) Akimi, aka. Femkimi or Milky Tits, and the other doesn't exist.

In OG:MD, they're twins, and Femkimi is renamed Akemi.

If you're curious why she's nicknamed Milky Tits, I called her that when testing Dashman's original translation tool, and made a joke translation for the part of the mission 1 prologue when she was getting into the robot, and called her that. /m/ took it, rolled with it, and has been using that as her nickname for the past eight years.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



i would prefer you didnt call her that

I R SMART LIKE ROCK
Mar 10, 2003

I just want a hug.



Fun Shoe

yeah even if you were the progenitor of the term you don't have to push it forward. like most people I know wouldn't react well to that even if it made sense in context

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

"/m/ rolled with it" is a red flag

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


That backstory is not nearly as interesting as I think you think it is.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


Blockhouse posted:

"/m/ rolled with it" is a red flag

Yeah /m/ might be extremely mild by 4chan standards but it's still 4chan

1st Stage Midboss
Oct 29, 2011



I wish there was an easy way to distinguish between these characters. If only there was a video game that featured them side-by-side prominently and gave them different names...

Booky
Feb 21, 2013

chill bug



yeah thats uh, kind of skeevy

Psycho Landlord
Oct 10, 2012

What are you gonna do, dance with me?




The hell possessed you to share that lmao

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Caphi posted:

That backstory is not nearly as interesting as I think you think it is.

Siegkrow
Oct 11, 2013

Arguing about Lore for 5 years and counting





Especially given SRW is very free with making the OG ladies stacked, that name doesn't really separate her from the lot!

Hokuto
Jul 21, 2002




Soiled Meat

There's still no sign of an English version of SRW 30 PV2, right? I'm not just missing it somewhere?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Hokuto posted:

There's still no sign of an English version of SRW 30 PV2, right? I'm not just missing it somewhere?

Not that I've seen. Maybe they're skipping it because it was just a holdover until PV3.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 23, 2012


Droyer posted:

Not quite what you're looking for but it's worth mentioning Full Metal Panic takes place in a world where the cold war never ended.

feel like i could maybe squeeze a joke or two in there but nah this ain't cspam:v:

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

「俺達の新力だ
真ゲッターロボ!」

I actually didn't not know that about FMP. Maybe I should go over it again someday.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




FMP goes to some pretty nuts places in its last few volumes.

They're in an arms race time loop where the Whispered are getting iterative notes from their future self which is letting the world have breakthroughs in ridiculous weapons tech while still technically being in the 90s with like landlines and poo poo. Also this is because Chidori had a breakdown after future Sousuke died and history keeps being re-written and diverging more as the loop continues

bacon flaps
Mar 1, 2005

every day im hustlin

Zore posted:

FMP goes to some pretty nuts places in its last few volumes.

They're in an arms race time loop where the Whispered are getting iterative notes from their future self which is letting the world have breakthroughs in ridiculous weapons tech while still technically being in the 90s with like landlines and poo poo. Also this is because Chidori had a breakdown after future Sousuke died and history keeps being re-written and diverging more as the loop continues

god drat it now im upset again about season 4's quality and how there probably won't be anymore adaptations

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



I love FMP, partly due to how schizophrenic it is in trying to be a (somewhat) hard sci-fi military mech story and a slapstick romcom at the same time. I remember preordering V just for the sole reason that it was going to tackle the novel stories along with the anime adaptions.

Eeepies
May 29, 2013

No, that's Magic!


I seriously thought FMP : Kaname breaking down and sending thoughts backwards was a V addition. Had no idea it was really FMP.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!


I never watched Full Metal Panic beyond The Second Raid, so I wasn't sure how much of it was V writing and how much was actual FMP.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




V's adaptation is really faithful. Like even the most absurdly SRW bit with Kurz' death fakeout is accurate.

It mostly just skips a bunch of parts that would be difficult/impossible to adapt where Sousuke becomes a mech gladiator for a while or arcs that don't involve the mechs at all.

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009

CNC! Easy as 1-2-3!


Still playing through X, got a "secret scenario" about The Mazingers trying to lure Mazinger Zero out for a fight and basically curb stomped everything.

Is the "secret scenario" really all that secret or is it dependent on some random statistic that you'll get anyway if you're playing normally (and you only won't get it if you're absolute poo poo at the game)?

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



biracial bear for uncut posted:

Still playing through X, got a "secret scenario" about The Mazingers trying to lure Mazinger Zero out for a fight and basically curb stomped everything.

Is the "secret scenario" really all that secret or is it dependent on some random statistic that you'll get anyway if you're playing normally (and you only won't get it if you're absolute poo poo at the game)?


The specific requirements are:

Either A) Scenario 24: Koji or Tetsuya defeats Garadoublas and Scenario 28: Koji or Tetsuya defeat Great General of Darkness. Koji and Tetsuya must have a combined killcount of 80 by the end of the stage or B) Scenario 28: Reduce Mazinger ZERO's HP below 30,000 by within 3 turns of its appearance

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."


Just watched PV2, and, while it looks pretty rad, there's definitely some stuff that makes me nostalgic for old SRWs. Like, it looks like Gridman's alternate forms are being condensed into single attacks, and if this were being made back around 2005 or so, you know each form would be an entire unit with the relevant Neon Genesis Junior High Student as a subpilot, plus you'd have a Full Power Gridman frame you could swap to (since they all have to deploy at half size to combine, it would obviously be either-or), plus normal Gridman could swap to True Gridman at high Morale, and you could even deploy Powered Zenon at the cost of Gridman not being able to combine with them. I don't even want to imagine what they'd do to Dendoh right now. I suppose they can't really afford to go all-out like they used to these days, but hopefully global sales will be enough to reverse the trend.

My other concern is, I hope that whole "choose the mission" feature is more MX and less Operation Extend, because OE's take on it just felt sort of cheap and lazy, and generally lacked the sort of connective tissue between missions that make the game feel cohesive. OE felt more like the older, pre-Alpha games, where the stories were a lot more simplistic.

Don't mean to be all negative but these are the kinds of worries I've had since the game was announced and I sorta needed to, like, vent, I guess? I just really hope this one's at least as good as the last three were.

1st Stage Midboss
Oct 29, 2011



EclecticTastes posted:

My other concern is, I hope that whole "choose the mission" feature is more MX and less Operation Extend, because OE's take on it just felt sort of cheap and lazy, and generally lacked the sort of connective tissue between missions that make the game feel cohesive. OE felt more like the older, pre-Alpha games, where the stories were a lot more simplistic.

From what they've revealed (I think in Famitsu?) it sounds like it's basically a more elaborate version of how MX did it; they've confirmed you can ignore the side content and just go straight for all the story stages if you want, and the optional stuff on the map is a mixture of full-on side stages, story-only events, and generic grinding stages. I only barely touched OE - got a few stages in, discovered that I downloaded the demo instead of the first part because I was bad at navigating the Japanese PSP store - but I've heard it was built around repeating stages and it doesn't sound like they've made that mistake here.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

EclecticTastes posted:

Just watched PV2, and, while it looks pretty rad, there's definitely some stuff that makes me nostalgic for old SRWs. Like, it looks like Gridman's alternate forms are being condensed into single attacks, and if this were being made back around 2005 or so, you know each form would be an entire unit with the relevant Neon Genesis Junior High Student as a subpilot, plus you'd have a Full Power Gridman frame you could swap to (since they all have to deploy at half size to combine, it would obviously be either-or), plus normal Gridman could swap to True Gridman at high Morale, and you could even deploy Powered Zenon at the cost of Gridman not being able to combine with them. I don't even want to imagine what they'd do to Dendoh right now. I suppose they can't really afford to go all-out like they used to these days, but hopefully global sales will be enough to reverse the trend.

My other concern is, I hope that whole "choose the mission" feature is more MX and less Operation Extend, because OE's take on it just felt sort of cheap and lazy, and generally lacked the sort of connective tissue between missions that make the game feel cohesive. OE felt more like the older, pre-Alpha games, where the stories were a lot more simplistic.

Don't mean to be all negative but these are the kinds of worries I've had since the game was announced and I sorta needed to, like, vent, I guess? I just really hope this one's at least as good as the last three were.

Part of this kind of compression is due to expectations on attack animation and production skyrocketing as technology advances, but I think a lot of it is honestly effort versus return. I'm a huge Gridman fan and I'm not necessarily sure it really adds anything meaningful to spend the time spriting, animating, and balancing(insofar as SRW does balancing) five separate Gridman forms that, at most, will have like two unique attacks each, tops, if you squint at the source material, versus just adding those forms as tools for the base Gridman unit. It's kind of like how you used to be able to decombine the various combining robots and use the individual parts to fight with; 99.9% of players would go "oh, neat" and then proceed to never use the Get Machines or the Cyber Beast Force in their decombined forms ever again once allowed to combine them. When you start doing the calculus of "should we sprite and animate another form for Gridman, or should the artist doing this work on another unit", you have to start making decisions, you know?

For my part, I'm expecting Gridman, Gridknight, Powered Zenon, and True Gridman as the discrete units from Gridman in SRW 30.

I strongly doubt the game is going to ape OE in any real way, because OE's disjointedness issues were caused in large part by the game being released in chapter segments over the space of months that meant they felt the need to pad the game out to give the player something to do while waiting for the next part to release. (They also wanted to make money selling XP grind DLC in the process.)

1st Stage Midboss
Oct 29, 2011



On the one hand, there are times that the compression of units feels like valuable things are lost - G-Reco in X certainly suffered a bit for it. On the other hand, I feel like Aquarion EVOL would have been a way less fun unit in an older-style SRW where it'd presumably be locked to attacks actually used by the pilots you have in it, and seeing the combination sequence for Max Gridman in full SRW action animation does more for me than being able to keep that form on the map would.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

1st Stage Midboss posted:

On the one hand, there are times that the compression of units feels like valuable things are lost - G-Reco in X certainly suffered a bit for it. On the other hand, I feel like Aquarion EVOL would have been a way less fun unit in an older-style SRW where it'd presumably be locked to attacks actually used by the pilots you have in it, and seeing the combination sequence for Max Gridman in full SRW action animation does more for me than being able to keep that form on the map would.

G-Reco in X was really weird because they actually included a lot more units than I expected them to but a lot of them were weird half-baked inclusions with like one attack. I'm part of the G-Reco fan crew and I probably would have been happier if they included less units but fleshed out the ones they did include more.

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EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."


I will readily admit I'm That Guy that liked how you could break up combining mechs and Gundams into the various constituent parts/core fighters, even though that feature was largely useless outside of one specific exploit. I also enjoyed how Combattler had like seventy-six different weapons, only five or six of which ever got used regularly. Like, I understand why that level of pointless detail is no longer feasible, I'm just also a bit wistful for those days.

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