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Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Policenaut posted:

I just re-connected with Five Star Stories after a long time, watching the movie and all, and while it'd send Mamoru Nagano into a murderous rampage it'd be really cool if Knight of Gold was in one of these games. It's just so drat aesthetic.

IT already sent him into a murderous rampage once, hence never again.

Also those pictures confirm the White Ark is in, which is good. It's weird they're showcasing Zoltan though as an enemy. Guessing he has to be recruitable. The other two enemies they showcase are also secrets or autorecruits.

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Kchama
Jul 25, 2007
Also looking at it, apparently there are side-story missions and 'event-only' missions like from Masoukishin where it's just conversations and story with no battle.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Endorph posted:

i admit im kinda iffy on the map/mission structure stuff since being able to do stuff in any relative order feels like itd cut down on character development/cross-series relationship stuff, but they could make that work with proper gating. plus even ifits bad theres no way it can be as bad as operation extend

From what I'm reading it's more akin to IMPACT and Compact than Operation Extend. It seems more like there's a lot more route splits as a result.

Justin_Brett posted:

That article also confirms that (Hakai-Oh) the combined Betterman will be playable.

That's not true. Betterman Cataphract is the combined Betterman, but it is not Hakai-Oh. Hakai-Oh is only Genesic GaoGaiGar, King J-Der, or Evoluder Gai possessed by Triple Zero. Betterman Cataphract possessed by Triple Zero is ChouSeiOh.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Droyer posted:

Yes but the subtitle of the novel is Hakai-Oh

Yeah maybe I misunderstood what he meant. It's a fair cop.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

AradoBalanga posted:

It would seem we're getting both versions for SRW 30. The one from T is on the box art, while the screenshots for Armageddon on the website/what's shown in the trailer use the giant battleship version.

Methinks it'll be either a mutually exclusive secret, or other shenanigans.

They're actually completely different units. The one from T is actually a unit from Daikessan that has an entirely different genesis. It's mostly just Shin Getter Robo's upgrade, ala Getter G to Getter-1. The whole thing in T where it only transforms its limbs and stuff into the other Getter unit's weapons and equipment is straight from Daikessan. It is missing the Getter Tomahawk Bits though.

The giant battleship is more commonly known as Shin Dragon and is the fusion of a bunch of Getter Dragons. I can't remember if Daikessan had Shin Dragon though, so this might be the first time they were in the same game together.


Infinity Gaia posted:

So I got around to watching Gridman and I'm now REALLY curious how it's going to work in SRW assuming they don't just do a cheap out disconnected reality bubble deal anyways. Also they better give OG Gridman a planet cut-in I swear to god if Fixer Beam doesn't get one I'm gonna lose it. Not enough attacks with planet cut-ins.

That's why I was asking about it earlier, too.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Eeevil posted:

It feels like they weren't really doing "post-plot" series at that time, or at least I don't remember any from J.

They did them all the time. Or they just didn't do the plot at all or did some weird thing that also wasn't really plot. Like most series in A, and a lot of stuff in R. G Gundam was fully post-plot but had Master Asia resurrected as a minion of the OG enemies. Daitarn has basically never had its plot outside of an episode or two being adapted, and maybe having the big bad as an enemy.

EDIT: Hell, Wing's debut in Shin was plotless and it was a secret to get Heero and Zechs permanently.

AradoBalanga posted:

W covered most of Endless Waltz in the first half, which is famous for the infinitely respawning Wufei boss during the final plot stage. Then, the second half of the game is post-plot (with a still living Mariemaia).

Mariemaia did survive Wing so her living in SRW shouldn't be a surprise!

Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Aug 17, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007
It's still weird we've never gotten the Death Gale Squad as PCs outside of Barnes. You know, the one who dies and never actually joins the team in the manga.

Whereas the two who canonically live and join the team both die.

EDIT: Actually I think they live if and only if you recruit Barnes. And they still don't join.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Aug 17, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

mrfreeze posted:

Oh gently caress it's that level of bad? Awww alright then.

Story-wise and mecha-wise it is great, but the PC version is porn and visual novel porn is basically never good. Which is why everything is based on the non-porn version.

It's kind of weird to put SEED Destiny in the same place as them because all of their bad parts are completely different. Demonbane PC is great but has bad porn. Cross-Ange is entertaining as hell but extremely trashy. SEED Destiny is just above-average.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

chiasaur11 posted:

Doesn't look like it was.

So, yeah. Odd how little it's shown up.

Me, I want to see Diebuster again, and to get IBO in a mainline entry instead of a Gacha. Don't think it's too unlikely, either. Just a minor disappointment that 30's another delay for Iron Blooded Orphans.

Gundam SEED Destiny isn't super good or anything but you can very easily do exceptionally worse in mecha anime.

IBO I'm pretty sure will eventually get one game and then never used again like most Gundams. Of course, DD might be counted as that 'one game'. It does feel like it might be hard to work into a game with UC Gundam as a basis, and UC Gundam is pretty much always the basis. Since outside of Zeta and Unicorn, the protagonists are pretty strictly working for the Federation and IBO is about rebelling against the Federation. So if you want IBO and UC Gundam, you probably end up having to do the "multiple dimensions" route and they seem less keen on making that a major thing these days. Like VTX does have dimensional stuff, but it is... very downplayed. V and X has basically no back and forth between dimensions.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Inferno-sama posted:

Okay, you're right about X, and T had no real dimension jumping (outside of getting to Byston Well/Cephiro and then leaving), but V had two route splits where one group went to the AD Dimension and the rest stayed in the UC Dimension.

That's what I consider downplayed without much back and forth compared to, say, the Z series where everything is fused together as part of the plot.


chiasaur11 posted:

Eh?

Looking at the Akurasu list, that mostly applies to weird spin-off mangas and novels. Most of the full shows (00, Wing, SEED, X, G, Turn A) have multiple appearances, even if you ignore the multi-game runs like Z.

The exceptions are AGE and G-Reco, which were both comparatively unpopular with SRW's core demographics. Meanwhile, Iron Blooded Orphans is a pretty solid success.

Seems odd to assume it'll be one and done with the cell phone game being its only showing.

Wing and G are the AUs that get used the most. I don't really count SEED since SEED is usually used in lieu of UC. Since they brought back UC, SEED's gone away pretty much completely. Hell, even though SEED was THE most popular Gundam at the time they still only used it a grand total of twice.

There's been 5 games since G-Reco came out, and only has been in once. 8 since AGE. IBO's had three chances and didn't even get into 30. So I wouldn't be surprise if it was a one and done for a long whole outside of DD. I feel like, unless they want to make a setting just for IBO without any/much UC or other Gundam, they likely won't be using it much. It feels like a waste of it otherwise. And there's not really an easy source to use like 00 or Wing's movies, which is why both have been mainstays for a while.

Tae posted:

I think you're all thinking way too hard on this. If they're given a list of series, they will always find a way.

Alpha had zeta to victory going on all at the same time.

IIRC, that was explicitly because they were just given a list of every UC Gundam and told to jam them all in after they had already written the plot.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 28, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Psycho Landlord posted:

In the seed stuff I think it was the name of the OS the hero suits ran on and was also a really incredibly nonsensical acronym. I could be wrong though, I bailed out of seed super fast once I realized it was just uglier, grosser UC.

This means I dodged the destiny bullet thankfully.

Honestly, you missed out. SEED is easily one of the best Gundam shows. SEED Destiny is... well, it has some real highs but it does have some real lows. Probably wasn't helped by the head writer getting fatally sick during the show's run.

1st Stage Midboss posted:

Given the kind of time gap we normally get after a show's completion for licensing, planning, and game dev time if nothing else, I can't imagine IBO could have got into anything earlier than T, and clearly they decided that its debut would be better as a thing to highlight DD. 30 seems to be going for a generally classic heroic kind of line-up, so IBO would be an awkward fit if they wanted to give it the kind of focus a popular series' first big outing normally gets.

G-Reco wasn't a smash hit, it's not shocking that it hasn't had more appearances so far. It could definitely fit into future games, though, because all it really demands is that there's people on the moon, the Capital Territory exists, and there was war long ago. I imagine that at this point they might be waiting for the movies to wrap up so they can use any new content in them and get new debuts out of it.

AGE... is AGE. It could have fitted into V, or like anything it could have been part of X's isekai setup, but there doesn't seem to be the demand.

If they want a show really in, then that stuff can easily be bypassed. Hell, GGG vs Betterman just in March.

Reiska posted:

Uhh, no. Unless you're not counting SEED Destiny, which *to me* definitely still counts as using SEED since it repeats much of the same cast. You're correct that they don't use original SEED much anymore, but they use SEED Destiny all the time relatively. All told, Cosmic Era Gundam appears in Alpha 3, J, W, Z, K, L, Z2.1, Z2.2, UX, Z3.1, Z3.2, and V. That's twelve appearances, seven of which it appeared alongside UC.

You say that they use Wing more but I'm not even sure that's true, and anyway, you're counting "uses Endless Waltz" as "uses Wing", so you have to count "uses Seed Destiny" or "uses Stargazer" or "uses Seed Astray" as "uses Seed" because otherwise they've used Wing, uh, twice? Because it's almost always just Endless Waltz.

Actually, I was counting regular Wing. Which has shown up in Shin, F, F Final, 64, Alpha 1, Alpha DC, D, Scramble Commander, Z2-1. and Z2-2 if we want to count Z2 games seperately, which I wasn't, and OE. 9 games, which is nothing to sneeze at.

G Gundam has been in 12 games. SEED has been in 3 games (I don't count K and L where they are 'in' purely to provide Buster and Duel for SEED Destiny, or mobile phone games), and SEED Destiny has been in 11. So SEED + SEED Destiny is just barely more prevalent than G Gundam, and only somewhat more prevalent than regular Wing. And that includes not considering Z2 and Z3 games as being one game apiece, which G Gundam didn't even get to take advantage of.

Endless Waltz has been in 17 games. So yes, there's a reason why I said that Wing is used more.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

chiasaur11 posted:

I mean, I kind of get the idea. Char's Counterattack got a great moment from Amuro just casually wasting Guss and moving on, and there's some real punch from characters just... dying, if you do it right.

The problem is, you need to give sufficient weight beforehand. Guss has scenes where he's a one man army, so Amuro casually kicking his rear end establishes Amuro as the deadliest thing in the setting. Likewise, if the Astray pilots had been major supporting characters, killing one or two of them so fast you almost don't notice, then showing the survivor in the hangar after the victory with a thousand yard stare would do a lot to convey that This Is War, that horrible things happen no matter who you are and no matter how promising a life you had ahead.

But they're minor characters, and there's nothing to really punctuate their deaths after, so it just feels like they were Shrike team members. Disposable ways to up the drama without actually impacting the wider narrative.

SEED is a bad show.

I like CCA, but it didn't really do that with Gyunei's death at all. CCA was clearly expected to be the end of all of these character's stories, which is why it kills them in droves. Gyunei dies pretty clearly because his moment in the sun is over. He had struggled with Amuro the entire movie and fell for Amuro's tricks time and time again and this time he just didn't survive and pretty much everyone else he could fight with was dead or about to die. And there's never a second for there to be any real mourning for anyone. Gyunei's death had about as much weight or punch as anyone else in the last half of the movie, which pretty much amounted to "it happened". Hell remember Rezun? Yeah, neither did I.

General Revil posted:

Seriously. Those girls deserved better, either surviving, or better deaths.

I agree.

SpaceDrake posted:

(It doesn't help that the SEED Gundams are some of the most toyetic in the entire franchise, so you have Serious War Stuff going on and then you cut to the massively over-produced focused units like the Freedom or Calamity or what have you, and it just yanks you straight out of the moment. The first GENESIS firing is absolutely awful-slash-hilarious about this.)

So you end up with the show looking like it has a guro fetish at times (since the incidents are being presented as Bad™ and something to avoid, so broadcast S&P would just barely let SEED get away with it) since it wants to highlight the ~horror of war~, but it really feels like the rest of the show won't or can't commit to it in a way that feels tonally appropriate. So it's just there and leaves you feeling :stare:.

People already talked about how ridiculous describing SEED as having a guro fetish is, but :laffo: at the idea that SEED has 'the most toyetic' Mobile Suits. They're all riffs on previous protagonist units, and even beyond that aren't near that 'over-produced' for a Gundam show.

Oh, hi, Freedom!

Huh, not even Strike Freedom has anything on this.

Or hell, from the very original Gundam.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Kitfox88 posted:

Strike and Freedom both look pretty cool, and Destiny is one of my favorite gundams period. :shobon:

Strike Freedom is actually my favorite mecha ever, and in fact SEED and SEED DEstiny have a lot of my favorites. So I hear you.


Policenaut posted:

I first saw CCA as like a little kid maybe 12 after watching Gundam Wing, like I went straight to CCA after Wing because hey Blockbuster had a Gundam movie I like Gundam. Gyunei's death was so jarring and sudden to me that I remember rewinding the DVD several times like "Wait did he actually die just like that no it's like a Gundam thing he'll come back and have a cool dramatic death right?"

Yeah I had to rewatch it to even remember how he died. My only memory was the scene where Amuro surprises him with Fin Funnels so I could have sworn he had died then.

Also this is a side note but rewatching CCA it's funny how insanely powerful vulcans are, considering there's multiple scenes of MS getting torn into itty bitty pieces by a spray of vulcans. Not just nu's vulcans, either. Hathaway shreds a Geara Doga, including shattering its shield in multiple places, just with a spray of vulcan rounds.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Zore posted:

With 30's whole branching and open structure I wonder how they're going to handle stuff like the mid-season upgrades to new mechs or unlocking new attacks.

From how it reads, it seems like you'll wander down a completely different path that doles out upgrades at its own time.

Also, GC translation guys, for some reason the GC translation in dolphin seems to have real issues for me. The very first dialogue in the game dies in a fire. It works AFTER the first scene, maybe. But unless I use the other CPU Emulation Engines, the uh... I think the thing that shadows out the portraits kills things. Since it works after this scene.

I have the latest translation patch and the unpatched ISO works fine.



This is the best I get it. No text, and the background doesn't work. But hey, the shadow works!

Kchama fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 30, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

MechaCrash posted:

I suspect that the way the "mission select" and branching path stuff is going to work is "here's a small handful of missions, you can choose the order you do them in," but you have to do them all before you can continue. So you can choose which of the events happens first, but you can't proceed until you've done them all.

They said in the interview that you don't have to do them all, since there's optional repeatable grinding missions and also how much you do determines what you get or something like that.

JamMasterJim posted:

Try going into Dolphin's graphic settings, hacks tab, set "texture cache accuracy" all the way down to safe.

Way ahead of you. I did that before I even loaded up the patched version for the first time.



This is the error I get that I have to Ignore to even get to the picture I posted last time.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

General Revil posted:

Are you using the latest patch from Romhacking and applied it to a clean iso (not a gcm)?

It seems impossible because I don't think we publicly released this patch, but it looks like you're getting the error where I accidentally coded in a Move Word, instead of Move Byte command and made the characters several million pixels wide and crashed the game.

And what version of Dolphin are you using?

I got the latest version 1.02 from Romhacking and applied it to a clean ISO, because the prepatched 1.01 I got had the same issue.

I just picked up the latest 5.0-14790 Beta version of Dolphin because the latest stable version is 5 years old and the Dev version is 'updates every day, buggy as gently caress' according to them. What version should I be using?

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Arc Impulse posted:

Yeah, something happened with Dolphin in a recent update to cause that to happen, as a few folks have run into that issue in newer versions. https://dolphin-emu.org/download/dev/5c957ec1909b7dcedbe79f2159dbf48d07bfe72c/ is the version I did all my dev stuff on here for GC, so it should work fine after switching that one cache setting for the battle text. On that other issue from beforehand, I have no idea on it from what you've posted so far here at least. May be worth setting up a portable version of Dolphin (make a file called "portable.txt" in the same folder as the exe file) so the settings are all default to test with, see if there's any difference.

agreed

I did a quick test with the version you posted and that fixed the issues. They were the same issue, as if I hit Ignore on that error screen I got the textless messed up screen. Thank you very much.


General Revil posted:

I'm using the 5.0 version that's five years old. Works fine for me.

I'm use to multiple year old versions of emulators being far worse, not better than the newer versions. Thank you.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Zeether posted:

Is the SRX and Cybuster stuff only pre-order exclusive for SRW30? I saw some fine print saying they might come later as DLC or something like that but the recent interview that was translated mentioned the former.

Not gonna feel FOMO about it if that's the case, just unsure.

If it is anything like the previous ones, then the preorder missions are just "You get to recruit them early", and otherwise they only join late in the game. I'm guessing they might offer them as later DLC because you actually do miss a little interaction-wise without the extra units in the previous games.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

General Revil posted:

The Dolphin team is amazing, but this is something they really dropped the ball on. They need to release a 6.0 stable release. However, that would require them to do a feature freeze and shift development to bug squashing instead of all the fun new ideas they're coming up with. Just reading all the new stuff they've added over the past five years is really cool, but you always run the risk of big regressions. This is exactly a case of that.

That's a real shame.

I need to sleep now, so I'll get to playing GC later. I'm actually really looking forward to it, and have been ever since I heard it was being translated. Thank you for you and the rest of the GC translation team's hard work.


And I know I said poo poo, but I also want to thank the OGs team's hard work. I may be picky, but it's because I care, and I care because it's an overall great translation of a great game.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Zeether posted:

I wanna get back to OGs but it got super tough for me real fast. Granted I guess I'm too used to VXT being more handholdy/casual focused.

The biggest tip I have for you is to get SP Regen on everyone. It is the key to being able to keep up the fight in the later stages no matter how much HP or HP Regen they have. Also for skill points that require you to beat all enemies or X amount of enemies, never forget the basis of Assault Combat: Aim to do as much damage to as many enemies as possible on your turn. Killing them on your turn is fine if a unit can't attack anyone who is unharmed, you want to do most of your killing on the enemy turn. Prioritize high-danger or high-HP targets for your turn if you think leaving someone standing on their turn is too dangerous or they have too much HP to kill incidentally, but a lot of mooks can be swept up in counters.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Davzz posted:

The OG1 portion of OGs usually have such short missions that SP Regen doesn't benefit as much as it does in OG2 (where missions tend to be a bit more drawn out) - and yeah, Shotguns tend to be a better deal in OGs over Machine Guns, though a handful of fully upgraded ones is still a solid choice.

I would say Attacker is probably the more "required purchase" on everyone except the designated spirit banks, but you should weave in perhaps a character who will get Support Attack with a strong weapon in order to finish off retreating bosses. If you favor counterattack heavy strategies using a small amount of units (Latune is very good at this) then Revenge is also very attractive for its cost - this is especially true in OGs where it feels like the AI is changed such that enemies almost always target whatever is closest to them, making AI manipulation very easy.

The length of missions literally doesn't matter with SP Regen. The value of SP Regen is that you can literally keep up everyone's defensive spirits at all times, letting you get a lot more mileage out of everyone. Flash being 10 and Focus being 15 means that you can cast Flash on everyone who has it on turn 1 and that's one attack they have all dodged for free. It also makes support casters much better because once you get them SP Regen they can cast their support spells much more since the cost of their defensive spirits are basically paid for automatically. This is especially more-so if you also get people lots of SP Up. You can have absurd amounts of SP which with SP Regen means that with bosses you can be more free to use SP before you get to bosses and then have a huge chunk to alpha strike the boss over and over. Concentrate is also extremely valuable for that reason, as it makes your SP Regen even more impactful.

My counterattack-heavy strategy, by the way, uses everyone. Even support casters like Garnet are perfectly fine for it, given the proper unit and weapons. I don't think spending that much on shotguns or machine guns is that great an idea, though. I'd say two are the limit, if only because as you get later in the game you can get much better weapons overall that just plain outrank them in every way. However, one or two are fine as a decent early anti-boss weapon. But they lose their punch pretty quickly. I didn't regret maxing out a couple and using them for degenerate custom bullet strategies, though. You really want to spend your money on upgrading key stats on units, and key attacks on specific units. The Grungust units finishers, for example, are perfect choices. SRX's finisher, as well. The secret weapons also give an immense amount of bang for their buck. The Shishioh Blade is an amazing weapon that can find use in literally anyone's hands. For weapons you want to concentrate your money, whereas spreading out upgrades for units is generally better. FUBs and CBs are fantastic to get but most of them aren't strictly necessary, but the Grungust ones increase the damage they deal even more, and SRX's lets you put another item slot on to make that unit even more disgusting. But otherwise you want to be getting as many units their 'basic neccessities' as possible. Dodgers need Mobility, SRs need Armor first. EN for those who use it a ton is also very wise. I use my SP Regen so I don't need HP as much, so that can be upgraded last for dodgy units.

Attacker is actually a fine skill to put on people, but it's something I usually fit on after I have SP Regen and SP Up on them in large amounts. Support Attack is good on some key people who have good units and a lot of free skill slots. I actually don't really care for Revenge because despite being counter-attack focused, it is close to a wasted slot on most people during boss fights, as bosses usually can only focus on one person. Keeping them in the fight longer and doing more damage at all times is much stronger. Also note that Rai and Aya are special cases. It's a very good idea to build them towards being SRX's pilots. So stuff that can improve it is extremely useful on them. SP Regen of course. As much SP Up as you can get. Concentrate. E-Save on one of them. Use the free slot to get Infighter on Ryusei. While straight stat ups give more damage, Infighter gives Movement which is very important and why I feel it is a good pick on slow units. Similarly, Gunfighter's range boost makes it attractive as the more enemies you can hit with more people each turn, the better. In OG2 Ryusei wants Gunfighter and maybe also Infighter. Break Morale Limit is also good on your boss killers if you have a slot to spare.

In short, in OG, you can often win many battles much more easily on the tactics front if you prepare on the strategic front properly.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Aug 31, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Kanos posted:

What? SP Regen's value is absolutely intrinsically tied to how long the mission is in turn count because it only triggers per turn. It doesn't matter if you get to cast flash or focus for "free" if the mission isn't long enough in absolute turn count that you'd run out of SP to do what you need to do before the mission is over.

If Pilot A has 80 SP and Focus for 15, they can cast Focus 5 times before tapping out. If Pilot B has the same capacity and cost and SP Regen, they can cast Focus 16 times before tapping out(net loss of 5 SP per turn). This only really begins to matter when stages are longer than 5 combat turns(because you don't need to cast Focus on turns where you're maneuvering into range). SP Regen might, at most, give you a bit more wiggle room regarding casting Valor in short burn stages, but assuming you're not playing a no-upgrade run, there are almost no bosses in OG1 that can't be killed in like two or three focused combat turns by your entire team, even endgame bosses like Judecca or Septuagint.

Machine guns and shotguns absolutely never lose their punch in OG1 because variable upgrade costs mean they can be max upgraded for peanuts. You can max out two M950s or shotguns and give them to anyone who can equip weapons(which, given that it's OG1, is the vast majority of your roster) for roughly the cost of maxing out a single super robot's finisher, and those M950s have a ton of ammo and ~5000 power and are post movement and cost no morale. They wildly outperform most actual baseline robot attacks, and if you're playing the remake the M950s are even *better* because the bullet crafting system lets you put together some really stupid poo poo like S rank ammo or morale down ammo or armor breaker ammo.

No, that's inherently wrong. When I say for 'free' I mean it. Casting Flash on turn one means that if you take more than one turn to get hit, then you did not spend that SP in any way that matters, and you have Flash on. And the value you get from that is so strong that it beats basically anything else. Especially since it, in fact, just allows you to stop and rest for a few turns to fully regain your power. A lot of the most difficult boss fights do not require you to defeat the boss fully for the skill point, so it allows you to be more free with your seishin. SP Regen lets you cast Accel to get units into battle quicker without it being a permanent loss to your SP. It lets you get first-strike capability because you can cast Flash and have it active when you actually get into battle and the SP cost already refunded. While you say that you only that only matters after five turns, you will be casting more than Focus and/or Flash in a lot of situations, and even when you run out you can have a little defensive power back every turn. So Focus being 'reduced' to 2-5 SP a turn means congrats, that 80 SP goes a lot further for everything. Especially on support casters who have big and expensive spells and can't afford to cast defensive spells so freely.

I really think you underestimate just how strong "can't be ran out of SP for the rest of the battle" is.

Also the Shotgun and M950's punch is actually not all that great. The M950 is cheap and that's it's main thing, especially since you don't get the parts needed for the really good ammo shenanigans until later in OG1. Shotguns are actually a fair bit more expensive and both lose out to G-Revolvers which are also bullet weapons and have the same price profile, range, and do more damage and comes with an S rank, plus better accuracy and crit chance. They lose on ammo compared to the M950 and aren't ALL like the shotgun, but that's about it. You don't get as many as them but you do get one relatively early and R-1 does not particularly need it. Both the shotgun and M950s max out at 4800 at 110000 and 165000 respectively, and the G-Revolver tops out at 5000 for 110000. So if you want a cheaply upgradable ammo gun, use it instead.

It's fine to have one for cheap ammo shenanigans later on since you don't want to use anyone you want to be actually dealing real damage using them, but it's a decent chunk of change for something that's only going to be adequate later on in OG1 and not cutting it at all in OG2. You'd be better off saving the money and putting them into better things in the long-term.

Also that single SR attack will get more done over the game.

In my full OGs playthrough I just did, I ended up not using my upgraded M950s after a while as they just stopped being useful outside of needing someone equipped with one to weaken barriers. Yeah, the damage was fine but most of my units long had much better weapons and they ended up feeling like an early game crutch more than anything and otherwise barely worth equipping onto my support pilot's units. OGs definitely made them a lot worse in the long run as while bullet nonsense is good, you don't need to upgrade them for that, and you get more units that can't use them at all, and wouldn't need to even if they could use them.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 31, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Kanos posted:

You glossed over or ignored the entire point of my statement - "free" Flash only matters at all if you are actually running out of SP before the battle is finished, which in OG1 I typically am not because OG1 stages are generally not super long involved messes like OG2's "hello this stage has 4 bosses with 6 digit HP" marathons are. You also almost never need to actually cast defensive seishin in OG1 past the early game once you get some decent units and some upgrades in unless you're swinging for a boss or are having a unit deliberately tank a wave of enemies, so "casting flash/focus every single combat turn on every unit" is already being super generous to SP Regen to begin with because it's just not very necessary.

SP is a resource that exists to be expended. You don't get bonus points for having leftover SP when a stage is finished. I don't really care if my dudes are all tapped out as opposed to having 50% sp remaining in the tank on turn 6 or whatever if the stage is over by then. If you want to get it because it gives you peace of mind or lets you do attrition strategies that you prefer, sure, go ahead! It's not like you need to be hyper optimal to beat the OG games.

OG2 is an entirely different matter, because OG2 has a ton of incredibly drawn out slugfest stages against numerous enemies that are strong enough to demand spell usage to reliably survive/damage, so SP Regen goes from "don't need it at all" to "virtually mandatory".

As for the guns, "less ammo than an M950" is extremely bad because the M950 is a fantastic go-to enemy phase weapon, and the ALL is the entire reason you'd upgrade a shotgun instead of another M950, so discounting those two traits is questionable. I'm also not sure how getting two cheap 4800 power post movement attacks that you can swap between units as you get better ones and use virtually infinitely is going to do less work for you over the course of a playthrough than upgrading a single expensive super robot finisher.

Attacker is also mediocre in OG1, IMO. I usually just go for stat upgrades or support attack on people who don't have it because it's fantastic for burning bosses down. Revenge is also nice on specific characters you intend to soak enemy waves because it's dirt cheap and very powerful.

Like SP Regen, I think Attacker gains a lot more value in OG2 because the longer stages mean you're going to be spending more time with it activated.

Guess what, with SP Regen you don't ever get tapped out! It means you can play more aggressively and, as people have stated, lets you have more SP to use on other seishin... like offensive ones. Or support ones. And hell, with SRX alone having SP Regen on all three lets you keep up Accelerate, Flash, and more for minimal cost so you can actually use them AND use your SP on important spells. The guy was asking for tips on how to do better. I told him. Just because you 'don't need it' doesn't mean it isn't extremely powerful.

As for that extra ammo? Who gives a poo poo. Resupply is a thing and is very cheap to use because 10 Morale is very easy to gain back. Only in very certain battles in OG2 at the end of the game does Morale become a bit stingy due to the lack of enemies, but that's what SP is for. Also I wasn't talking about a single super robot finisher. There's plenty of robots that have a base-better attacks that are cheap enough that you might as well have 20 uses of them, or are actually free. And if you're draining an entire clip of attacks on the enemy phase alone, then you have a unit that is in the wrong place.

As for Attacker vs Revenge, Revenge is still 40 PP and is only active during counterattacks, so only having it on a couple of characters who you expect to tank is about as far as I go with it. Attacker is on all the time at 130+ morale which is frankly rather trivial to get when it matters and is active when you need it the most: Alpha striking a boss.

Dance Officer posted:

Focus loses a lot of it's value around the midgame in OG2. The original OG2 at least.

Honestly I've found that in OG2 you either need Lock-On or Focus in order to always hit and have solid evasion. Concentrate + Sp Regen makes you able to use them consistently and takes a lot of edge off the difficulty when dealing with tougher mooks.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 31, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Dance Officer posted:

I played a lot of OG2 back in the day and this simply isn't true if you're getting all the battle masteries. Focus falls off a cliff when stuff like R-Schneides shows up.

As someone who played OGs just a couple months ago I was able to have high evasion and accuracy with Focus. Like, 30% for an entire turn for both accuracy and evasion is really strong. For most characters, having it on most of the time made it much easier to use them more aggressively.


Vizuyos posted:

A free Flash every turn is nice, but it's not all that important against grunt enemies. Especially in OG1, where the grunts aren't that threatening and you don't have many super robots that can't dodge. Focus holds up better since it lasts the whole turn, but in OG1 your main attackers should generally be able to handle grunts just fine without it.

SP Regen is still very nice to have anytime it's available, it's definitely never a bad choice. Spirit commands are good enough that even if you don't really need them for a stage, you'll never feel like the skill is outright dead weight. But in OG1 it's just one powerful option you might take depending on your playstyle and preferred approach, while OG2 makes it a lot more valuable due to the sheer amount of boss-level poo poo that might get thrown at you in a single stage.

The point of the free Flash with SP Regen is that it makes it a lot easier to avoid problems for a lot of characters and units. It's a safety measure that lets you spread out your firepower and take minimal damage for your army over the course of the turn. I wouldn't say it is mandatory in OG1, but if someone is asking me how to immediately improve things in OG1, I'd tell them to get SP Regen first and foremost, and absolutely not Revenge.



Kanos posted:

I mean, the entire thing I'm talking about is playing aggressively. If you're finishing stages in a low amount of turns to the point where SP Regen isn't really paying out, that's the definition of playing aggressively.

Regarding the bolded: OG doesn't have evasion decay(that was invented in Z) so you can very easily have a single upgraded unit with defensive spells up tank and counter an entire enemy wave, which means you don't need to cast defensive spells on anyone else, which means you can spend all of those SP you'd be dunking into Flash/Focus on offensive spells instead! :ssh: That's where having a ton of ammo on a powerful attack with a decent range band really shines, especially since you can spend the PP you'd have spent on SP Up and Regen on Revenge and shooting stat so most of those enemies are going to either die on counters or be on the verge of death and be easily swept up by other people(who won't need defensive seishin to attack them safely because they're low enough to die on the attack) for tasty bites of morale.

SP Regen pays out the moment you can use more spells than you otherwise wouldn't be able to. And that's literally every turn with it. Even over the course of 5 turns, you can now cast 50 more SP worth of spells than you could have otherwise.

You're not really dunking much SP into Flash/Focus if you have SP Regen. 0-5 SP isn't really a lot, and if you don't need to use one of them for a turn then well, you just got back back all that SP you sued. Also, you don't use Hot Blood to sweep mooks. 4800 is not really all that powerful of an attack, and its range isn't really all that good either. Whenever I finished sweeping mooks, I'd generally have close to a full pool of SP, which I could then start using to spam Hot Blood or whatever was needed for bosses which made harder bosses a lot easier.

GimmickMan posted:

Misusing "literally" as a superlative is bad enough, but starting a wall of text by misusing literally while being factually, observably and literally wrong is some extremely cursed posting.

I literally don't care, ha!

EDIT: Also the truth of the matter is that you probably don't need much of anything in OG1 because if you are having trouble you can just save-scum your way through it because it is reseeded whenever you do anything at all, so as long as you can possibly dodge or can possibly hit you can just change your chosen attack or chosen defense back and forth and reload until you find the right seed that lets you succeed. I know this because that's how I beat OG back when it came out and I had no idea how to play SRPGs. For like 99% of the game you can get away with that. Not so much in OG2, though.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Aug 31, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Endorph posted:

Theoretically you could just treat the OG anime like any other anime series, and give it exactly as much plot focus as any other anime series. It's a convoluted series with a lot of presumably playable mechs and enemy factions, but the same's true of some other actual anime they've used.

That's how Masoukishin and SRX got treated in Alpha 1, so it has precedent.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Endorph posted:

just game writers. it seems like its likely the same people or at least some of the same people since there's a lot of cute callbacks and they're clearly very practiced at writing this kind of crossover story by now, and if you look up some of the names you can see theyve been there forever - for instance the lead V writer also wrote the OG games on GBA back in 2004-2005. But it's not anyone who's notable for doing much other than writing Super Robot Wars games and maybe a few other random games sometimes.

If I remember correctly one of the guys who wrote the handheld games starting with L was the guy who wrote the Linebarrels manga, which is why there's suddenly the manga plot in UX that has a new finale written and such because the actual manga was still in the works.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

General Revil posted:

You could even add Nadesico and Tobikage. You'll get the desperate attempt to flee, and crossover opportunities.

Also, I've been watching the SRW 64 translation, and it's nice the desperate situation in the first few episodes, but still with a lot of crossover happening.

There's a SRW64 translation in the works?! That's one of my favorite of the oldschool SRW. I want ot leanr more.

Endorph posted:

isnt

isnt that how most SRW games work already? SRWUX is literally built around this premise

UX is the only one where it works like that, because it's part of the plot, since you can only get all the secrets through that. Some other games have some flags carry over or aren't needed on a second playthrough though.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Tae posted:

SRW64 had a translation done for months now

You're confusing SRW64 with SRWGC aren't you? I can't find anything on a 64 patch. GC was the one that was released a few months ago.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Nuebot posted:

This actually reminds me of one thing I really, really hope they do for 30: give me a proper new game plus. I don't care if units or characters carried over don't have story dialogue or anything. But please stop letting me unlock cool units for the last like three missions and no more. Zero, Neo Zeong and TTGL are really bad about this; but I think the absolute worst goes to Great Zeorymer in J where you have to forgo most of the other upgrades in the game and jump through all kinds of tedious hoops to get it, then you get it for the very end of the game and while it's incredibly powerful on paper; it's not actually that strong because by that point you'll have upgraded other units to be just as overkill if not even better without needing all of the bullshit to get it every playthrough.

Basically - if I get something I just want to be able to use it on a fresh playthrough :negative: .

I get the sentiment of all of this, but is Great Zeorymer's unlock requirements 'tedious hoops'? Beyond 'don't deploy it unless forced to', it's literally "Go all the routes that have Zeorymer's plot, and use Zeorymer to defeat all the Zeorymer enemies".

That's a lot less tedious than Vorlent's requirement of "Beat the game with all other protag units" in the same game.


MechaCrash posted:

Great Zeorymer's unlock in J always struck me as loving insane, because in order to get the super rad upgrade for Zeorymer, one of the requirements is never deploying Zeorymer. :psyduck:

It makes sense plot-wise in the context of the show, at least.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Dance Officer posted:

Huh, I forgot about that.

He nailed it in one, yeah.

Neo_Crimson posted:

The MD script isn't good but it's hardly illegible. You can understand what people are saying pretty easily. The actual problem is that MD's story is pretty convoluted and requires you to keep track of what a bunch of different factions are up to and plot elements from 2-3 previous games that haven't received an official translation.

Also, this. I didn't have too much trouble understanding the plot, but when I streamed it my viewers were pretty lost due to that aspect.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Nuebot posted:

Because, IIRC, the zeorymer units don't show up concretely under one specific plot line (IE: you don't just follow the gundams or whatever) so you have to zig-zag across the storyline getting half of each plot making sure to deploy zeorymer only when the zeorymer is necessary and kill the zeorymer bosses with zeorymer. It felt tedious to me; beating the game three times over was just playing the game three times which was only tedious if you didn't really like J imo.

Maybe our definitions of 'tedious' differ since that's just playing the game normally except you don't deploy Zeorymer.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

EclecticTastes posted:

I think next time 0083 comes back, Cima should be unlockable while Gato gets iced no matter what. She got a pretty raw deal in the original series, and SRW hasn't righted that wrong once in thirty years (Impact even has the Gerbera Tetra as a playable unit, without her), while Gato remained a hardcore Zeon supporter to the end, up to and including being personally responsible for one of the few successful colony drops in the UC. I say swap the two out.

Also 08th MS Team should be in a game with GaoGaiGar, MightGaine, and Gurren Lagann. Cram as much Nobuyuki Hiyama as humanly possible into every video game. Wait poo poo that would mean more Gundam SEED. Okay maybe exceptions can be made.

Weirdly, SD G Gen DS has Special Mode where Cima is basically the main non-OG character of the game along with Char, and she ends up joining the Federation and then AEUG (where she fights Kou and co in the Titans).

EclecticTastes posted:

That first bit sounds pretty reasonable, since at the bare minimum they'd need to include the titles of any works they included, even as units-only. As for the second, I didn't mean they should make a big deal out of it, I figure, just about every game has at least one moment late in the game where the heroes get a shipment of extraneous mobile suits, and they could just quietly include the F91.

Actually, now that I think about it, none of the Mobile Suit Variations or other obscure art books are ever directly credited in the series lists, are they? Like, they show up in the credits, I think, but not in the PVs or the like. So maybe they could kill two birds with one stone by just changing some animations just a little bit to accommodate a more esoteric option. Then they're not really including F91, and Kincade (or, theoretically, any UC pilot) gets a special endgame unit all to himself.

They usually don't credit MSVs as seperate series, but 30 is like the first time in a while.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007
New update on the site.

https://t.co/2TjqsXUEIp?amp=1

Playthrough by one of the VAs (Lian Amberd, the operator of the OG battleship) while talking to Terada. This is just the first part, and it seems to be the start of the game, so we're starting off fighting Zanscare in space.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Ethiser posted:

It looked like there was a choice on whether to start on Earth or in space with different initial series in them.

I’m still not sure on the designs of either main character. Neither one feels very standout to me.

That's right. I skipped past that part.

I dunno, I think they're both very nice looking. Edge has that scarf I like and Az's hair really gets me. I like the blue to green part of it.

Divine Beast is a real banger of a tune as well.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Reiska posted:

I dunno, most signs seem to point to OG being killed off after one more game (and it still being a little questionable if that one gets greenlighted).

Considering the reason why they have so many OG units in 30 is because they want to use the OG sprites they had made since for the next OG game cuz it won't be for a bit, it sounds like they definitely intend on more OG games.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r9Sd19w6XI Part 2 of the playthrough is up now.

EDIT: Man it sure is weird that they haven't shown off any of SRW30's music yet.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

EclecticTastes posted:

When was the last time we got actual BGMs aside from Banpresto Original in marketing materials? Z2 Hakai-hen's series announcement trailer (which I can't even find anymore)? I think there's a licensing thing in the way.

BX's PV2 did have it, so that would have to be the last one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbBrYD6IGSk It was the last game before the VTX trilogy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5vmX-VLPhI

V has an actual BGM trailer too. I can't find one for X or T though. So not THAT long ago.

Kchama fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 11, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

"Prick"? I thought Cross Ange wasn't in the game. Lemme kill Embryo again!

EclecticTastes posted:

The BX trailer is kind of telling, actually. Notice how Macross Frontier, Raijinoh, and Nadesico weren't using BGMs anyone would ever actually use (BX was one of the lucky games to get decent music from Nadesico). I'm assuming this means they couldn't get approval to use Dream Shift, You Get To Burning, or any of the Macross Frontier tracks. Whether it's a money thing or simply a matter of permission is unclear, but it seems there's a non-zero amount of red tape involved.

Those are Banpresto originals, so obviously they have the go-ahead to use them however they want.

Weren't those weirdly the default themes for those units in BX? Like MacF has always weirdly defaulted to The Target. And Raijinoh had not Dream Shift for its finisher theme pretty much always. Also isn't You Get To Burning like, the most common theme for Nadesico in SRW?

Kchama fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Oct 12, 2021

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Blaze Dragon posted:

I finished a rewatch of Gridman yesterday with my girlfriend, god what a great show. It did annoy me for SRW 30 though, since it had a lot of stuff for the Gridman forms but we know they'll just be one attack each for Gridman instead of playable forms. At least the one attack we saw looks really good.

Does it? Like most of the combinations got like one real attack and some stuff for when they weren't combined in the show. Like some of them could be gattais, but like Gridman Calibur is better off just an attack.

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Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Randalor posted:

The encyclopedia covers some skills/traits, but not things like "Newtype". So right now, I have Gundams that have sub-50% chance of getting hit from an attack, while Black Getter has a 100% of eating each hit, presumably because Ryoma thinks evading is for wusses (I haven't seen the Getter series, so that may actually be the case, though apparently its just because Newtype gives a bonus to evasion)

In SRW, 'Super Robots' like Getter Robo are generally not terribly dodgy, while Gundams tend to be very dodgy. If you check, the Gundam will have a lot higher Mobility than the Black Getter, which is the stat used for Evasion on units. Also, Amuro's related stat is also much higher than Ryoma's.

Also in general, Newtype is +Accuracy/Evasion, +DMG to Newtype weapons like Fin Funnel, and +Range to Newtype Weapons at high Newtype level.

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