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ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Oven Wrangler

Alright ya’ll, we finally got some information about the upcoming Amazon Wheel of Time adaption, set to premier November 19th. Check out this cool image that was shown at SDCC today:

https://twitter.com/TheWheelOfTime/status/1418634929504624646

So what is The Wheel of Time and why are you reading this? WoT is a 14 book fantasy series (plus one prequel and two companion books) by Robert Jordan. The first book of the series was published in 1990 and the final one in 2013, five years after his death and which was finished by fellow fantasy author Brandon Sanderson. They’re fun books, not perfect by any means, but they tell a good story, have good characters, and the world that Jordan created is one that is filled with history and cultures similar to ours but with magic and like, monsters and stuff. The series pulls from real world eastern and western philosophy, myth, and legends and combines them all in a way that grabbed me the instant I started reading the books back in 2001 as a high school virgin.

It’s also real complicated and complex and I could spend pages just doing a breakdown of the various characters, nations, plot points and all that but I’ll make it brief for those new to the world and to keep it spoiler free since this is a space for people who have presumably not read the books and want to talk about the series.
WoT is a world were a small portion of men and women can use magic, referred to as channeling, by tapping into The One Power. The One Power is broken down into two sides, one male half called Saidin, and one female half called Saidar. Channelers use this power to cast spells by combing different elemental aspects of the OP in what Jordan named weaves. Due to events in the history of the world, the male half of the OP has been tainted by evil and drives any men who use it to insanity.

Unfortunately, the series relies on gender essentialism in the way the magic system was designed. Men use one part, women use another, there is no overlap, leaving genderfluid and transgender individuals with no seat at the table. I’d like to think that if Jordan were alive he would recognize this issue and address it in a progressive way but he’s not so we have to take the bad with the good and hope the series production team has had discussions about this and can come up with a way to fix these issues and deliver us a show that is still faithful to the world and characters that I love so much.

This is getting long and I assume the show will explain a lot of this in a much more succinct and intelligent way that I can. But also if you have any questions about the basics this is the place to ask, let’s keep it as vague and spoiler free so as to not spoil anything too much for those who are coming to the series with fresh eyes.

The book cast is gigantic and has hundreds of named characters. I’ve complied a list of the main characters, ones that the first few books focus on and follow throughout the whole story. I’m pretty excited to see a real diverse cast of actors bringing these characters to life.

Rosamund Pike as Moiraine Damodred - an Aes Sedai who ends up in Emond's Field
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1141390183641866245

Daniel Henney as al'Lan Mandragoran - Moiraine's protector (known as a Warder), Lan is a master swordsman
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1169279471712497664

Josha Stradowski as Rand al’Thor - a sheepherder from the Emond's Field, a small backwoods village in the Two Rivers where the story starts
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1161668876720984064

Marcus Rutherford as Perrin Aybara - a blacksmith's apprentice, also from the Emond's Field and friends with Rand, Mat, and Egwene
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1161670278448947201

Barney Harris as Mat Cauthon - a fellow farmboy, Mat is the type to cause trouble and usually the one to get blamed for it
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1161672659534413824

Zoë Robins as Nynaeve al'Meara - the local wise woman, she's very protective of the people from Emond's Field
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1161671427117867008

Madeleine Madden as Egwene Al'Vere - daughter of the mayor of Emond's Field, also the apprentice to Nynaeve
https://twitter.com/WoTonPrime/status/1161673919436185600

Michael McElhatton as Tam Al'Thor - Rand's father
https://twitter.com/TheWheelOfTime/status/1192124485022863361

Johann Myers as Padan Fain - a trader who visits Emond's Field each year, bringing news and goods from the world outside of the Two Rivers
https://twitter.com/TheWheelOfTime/status/1202258062515429377

Alexandre Willaume as Thom Merrilin - a traveling entertainer, known as a gleeman, who ends up in Emond's Field to celebrate the coming of spring.
https://twitter.com/TheWheelOfTime/status/1202256801539883009

Strangely, even though we haven't even seen a trailer for season 1 yet the show has already been renewed for season 2 and they just started filming again last week, so good sign that amazon is invested in the show being worth it.

Once the show does start in November and if there is active discussion please limit it to what has been shown. If you're familiar with the books, characters, and plot please don't spoil anything for new people!

Check out The Book Barn thread located :siren:here:siren: for all your spoiler filled discussion of the books.

:siren: spoilers :siren: :v:


:siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren:

First trailer released today


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fus4Xb_TLg

ONE YEAR LATER fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Sep 3, 2021

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ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Oven Wrangler

Just cause I love it, bask in the glory of 1990 genre fiction cover art, almost accurate to the book itself!


Got some scans from an upcoming issue of EW











ONE YEAR LATER fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Aug 18, 2021

RC Cola
Aug 1, 2011

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain






I am very excited for this show.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



I dunno, for a supposedly non-spoiler thread you're giving away a lot of information that doesn't get revealed for many books. I'd recommend cutting your history down to just "things begin in an isolated small town called Emond's Field" and let the show introduce the concepts you mention in it's own time and way. The whole point of a non-spoiler thread is to only talk about what's been shown on the screen.

CainsDescendant
Dec 6, 2007

Human nature

jng2058 posted:

I dunno, for a supposedly non-spoiler thread you're giving away a lot of information that doesn't get revealed for many books. I'd recommend cutting your history down to just "things begin in an isolated small town called Emond's Field" and let the show introduce the concepts you mention in it's own time and way. The whole point of a non-spoiler thread is to only talk about what's been shown on the screen.

That was my first thought reading the op as well. A lot of the history of the setting, at least early on in the books, is told by unreliable sources and we don't get a clear idea of who the goodies and baddies were and are until events are set in motion and we get to see more of the world.

Sorry OP, not trying to nitpick :kiddo:

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Oven Wrangler

I figured context was necessary for anyone new to the series and dont feel like I spoiled anything that would be relevant to the plot as it concerns the story of Eye of the World but I'll cut some stuff out. Let me know if I miss anything.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


I haven't seen the original post, but this version of the OP seems fine to me spoiler wise.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?




Hair Elf

I'm excited for all of smoothing of skirts and tugging of braids

The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jul 24, 2021

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



ONE YEAR LATER posted:

I figured context was necessary for anyone new to the series and dont feel like I spoiled anything that would be relevant to the plot as it concerns the story of Eye of the World but I'll cut some stuff out. Let me know if I miss anything.

The thing is, we don't know what context the show is going to use as surprises or twists or, for that matter, change or drop entirely. For a true TV non-spoiler thread, I'd always err on the side of "don't talk about the source material at all" or at most "only talk about the source material as it relates to the episodes that have been shown and nothing in the future".

All that said, your edited version is just fine, since it doesn't say anything that you can't find in the show's own promotional material.

Thank you. :tipshat:

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

Wheel of Time has a lot of fat to trim, but even after doing that you are left with a huge amount of story that can't realistically be told, because it would take too long and cost too much.
So I am a little nervous about what we will be getting, but I hope it will be good.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



I read the first book (or two?) in high school but can't remember much beyond a generic fantasy setting and a rote chosen one storyline. Since then I've realized just how rare a well-executed fantasy is on film, so I'm hype based on prestige and budget alone. I also know that the series apparently goes interesting directions with the chosen one stuff so I'm hoping there's more under the hood.

bagrada
Aug 4, 2007

The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!


Hoping for a game of thrones but I'll be very happy with a witcher or legend of the seeker.

Fun fact, the showrunner Rafe Judkins was a contestant on Survivor Guatemala, season 11. He went on to be a producer on Chuck and Agents of Shield among others.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



The state of mainstream high fantasy when The Eye of the World was released was so direly formulaic that it was considered fresh for having the Gandalf analog be a woman. However, starting with cliché didn't keep the series from quickly developing its own distinctiveness and originality. There's plenty of good poo poo in the source material and I'm hopeful for a quality adaptation.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


And some of the things that are cliché now are so because WoT was an extremely popular series that influenced a lot of today's authors, which is something to keep in mind.

JOHN SKELETON
Dec 12, 2005



I'm hyped! Even if they would need a miracle to be able to adapt this well.

What I'm expecting is that they've adapted quite a bit indeed, much more than the equivalent Game of Thrones S1 for example. They've emphasised that point in a few interviews as well. I'm guessing in the first season we're getting an amalgamation of the first few books, including the prequel. And some extra stuff on top for characters they thought should get an expanded role.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


JOHN SKELETON posted:

I'm hyped! Even if they would need a miracle to be able to adapt this well.

What I'm expecting is that they've adapted quite a bit indeed, much more than the equivalent Game of Thrones S1 for example. They've emphasised that point in a few interviews as well. I'm guessing in the first season we're getting an amalgamation of the first few books, including the prequel. And some extra stuff on top for characters they thought should get an expanded role.

The only way I can see any characters getting an expanded role is if they get important parts belonging to another character that the writers just don't put into the show.

JOHN SKELETON
Dec 12, 2005



Torrannor posted:

The only way I can see any characters getting an expanded role is if they get important parts belonging to another character that the writers just don't put into the show.
My assumption is that they want to show more of the surrounding world in the first season already, beyond just what the main characters are doing in book 1, to give viewers a taste of the complicated politics. And yeah I think they have cut quite a few characters.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


JOHN SKELETON posted:

And yeah I think they have cut quite a few characters.
I would certainly hope so. One reason I never finished the books was because I completely lost track of who half the cast were. That and the plot slowing to a crawl.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Excellent OP. Can’t wait for the show.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...





Tiggum posted:

I would certainly hope so. One reason I never finished the books was because I completely lost track of who half the cast were. That and the plot slowing to a crawl.

secret tech that i used when finishing the series was not really stressing over who half the characters were and just letting their names wash over my brain without trying to connect them to a mental image. this isn't to say that i didn't pay attention, it's just that there's literally so many characters that i could safely do that for a lot of them because they had a bit part at best and weren't as important as some others.

inevitably the show is going to have to mash a few together just to fit the medium

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



Tiggum posted:

I would certainly hope so. One reason I never finished the books was because I completely lost track of who half the cast were. That and the plot slowing to a crawl.

It got better. Which is really rare to have happen, but it did. Robert Jordan also rules for publishing more books than GRRM, posthumously.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...





there's definitely a bit of a mid-series lull that picks up in the later stretch. i enjoyed pretty much all of it but you can feel the sluggishness for a little while. it'll be interesting to see how the show translates things in term of pace.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?




Hair Elf

The current assumption is ~2 books per season?

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

The Glumslinger posted:

The current assumption is ~2 books per season?

I’ve been hearing rumors of (barest of speculation based on rumors) the first season being the first 3 books. Which would make sense, if they can make it not feel rushed.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



thrawn527 posted:

I’ve been hearing rumors of (barest of speculation based on rumors) the first season being the first 3 books. Which would make sense, if they can make it not feel rushed.

Funnily enough, I've heard the opposite that it's only one and a half books for the first season, most of Eye of the World and just a bit of The Great Hunt with some flashbacks from New Spring mixed in. Which just goes to show that no one not working on the show really has any idea, and we'll just have to watch the show to find out. Which is probably for the best, really.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...





personally i've heard that goody proctor was down by the well. with the devil.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Big fan of fantasy books but I tend towards the newer stuff by Abercrombie and Parker that followed Game of Thrones getting published rather than the old "Farmboy will save the world and there's a Gandalf analogue" type story. But a high budget fantasy adaption is rare so I'll probably check out the first few episodes of this. The best fantasy adaption I've seen is BBC "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell" series but that was just for one book.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...





if it helps, the series definitely starts out with a tiny bit of lord of the rings influence that can be clearly seen but it very rapidly starts moving way past that once you get out of first book territory. it's definitely it's own beast once you get into the meat of it.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

Johnny Joestar posted:

if it helps, the series definitely starts out with a tiny bit of lord of the rings influence that can be clearly seen but it very rapidly starts moving way past that once you get out of first book territory. it's definitely it's own beast once you get into the meat of it.

Yeah, Jordan said in interviews that that was deliberate -- he wanted it to feel familiar to people who'd read Tolkien, before he started getting weird with it. Remember this was written late 80's, so a *very* different media atmosphere than we have today. Fantasy was still very much outside the mainstream.

Ccs posted:

Big fan of fantasy books but I tend towards the newer stuff by Abercrombie and Parker that followed Game of Thrones getting published rather than the old "Farmboy will save the world and there's a Gandalf analogue" type story. But a high budget fantasy adaption is rare so I'll probably check out the first few episodes of this. The best fantasy adaption I've seen is BBC "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell" series but that was just for one book.


No no no! Gandalf is a woman this time! It's totally different!

(But seriously, I mean, at the time, that was a big deal! Which tells us a lot about the state of the genre in the late eighties and early nineties!)

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Tiggum posted:

I would certainly hope so. One reason I never finished the books was because I completely lost track of who half the cast were. That and the plot slowing to a crawl.

The only way I made it through the series was by skipping one of the books, Crossroads of Twilight I think? The wikipedia summary is only 8 sentences long and told me everything I needed to know

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



Jose Valasquez posted:

The only way I made it through the series was by skipping one of the books, Crossroads of Twilight I think? The wikipedia summary is only 8 sentences long and told me everything I needed to know

That's the low point of the series for sure.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


Ccs posted:

Big fan of fantasy books but I tend towards the newer stuff by Abercrombie and Parker that followed Game of Thrones getting published rather than the old "Farmboy will save the world and there's a Gandalf analogue" type story. But a high budget fantasy adaption is rare so I'll probably check out the first few episodes of this. The best fantasy adaption I've seen is BBC "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell" series but that was just for one book.

Fair enough if you prefer post-ASOIAF fantasy books, but describing the Dragon Reborn as a farmboy who saves the world doesn't do him justice. Garion is a farmboy who saves the world and plays the tropes as straight as possible. The Dragon Reborn on the other hand subverts the trope in a ton of ways.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009





Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Yeah, Jordan said in interviews that that was deliberate -- he wanted it to feel familiar to people who'd read Tolkien, before he started getting weird with it. Remember this was written late 80's, so a *very* different media atmosphere than we have today. Fantasy was still very much outside the mainstream.

No no no! Gandalf is a woman this time! It's totally different!

(But seriously, I mean, at the time, that was a big deal! Which tells us a lot about the state of the genre in the late eighties and early nineties!)

My glib boil-down of the whole thing is usually like “oh so you say LotR has no women in it? Well have a story with ALL THE WOMEN IN THE WORRRLLLD hahaha”

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

That just struck me as a big fuck you to any guy who's shorter, that it suggested that all his success is because he's tall. I guess that's not really his fault, but as I said, it just made me feel like he's a hack that has cruised to fame due to his appearance.

I tried to read the first book 20 years ago and I was bored to death. Please note this is also when I was at my move voracious reading, so its less I was too young and more it was boring. I remember telling my friend who lent me it that it made me think if Bilbo's party just kept going and going and there was no point to any of it. He told me "oh it gets real good in book 4" and I'm thinking I don't want to read that much before the series gets good.

But I've watched a bunch of videos about the world and its history and its really quite interesting. The idea that the Wheel of Time is literal, and this is some far future of earth is a neat idea. Though also the world map is god drat lazy and boring. One of those squares with mountains at one end and kingdom layouts seems really random. Though the world map isn't as important in a show as it is in the books.

The only other thing I know is "tugs on their braid"

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

Johnny Joestar posted:

secret tech that i used when finishing the series was not really stressing over who half the characters were and just letting their names wash over my brain without trying to connect them to a mental image. this isn't to say that i didn't pay attention, it's just that there's literally so many characters that i could safely do that for a lot of them because they had a bit part at best and weren't as important as some others.

inevitably the show is going to have to mash a few together just to fit the medium

this is low key an exceptionally good method.

Johnny Joestar posted:

there's definitely a bit of a mid-series lull that picks up in the later stretch. i enjoyed pretty much all of it but you can feel the sluggishness for a little while. it'll be interesting to see how the show translates things in term of pace.


I think what sticks in all of our memories of that mid series lul being so bad is because we were waiting for new books for 2 years. The two year gap from book 9 to 10 and two and a half more years from 10 to 11 was just bruuutal. But when you're binge reading, eh, no big deal.

Of course, a mere 2-3 year gap seems positively quaint, now, looking at grrm, but, well.

Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 25, 2021

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



Gwaihir posted:

I think what sticks in all of our memories of that mid series lul being so bad is because we were waiting for new books for 2 years. The two year gap from book 9 to 10 and two and a half more years from 10 to 11 was just bruuutal. But when you're binge reading, eh, no big deal.

Of course, a mere 2-3 year gap seems positively quaint, now, looking at grrm, but, well.

I think that's true. I binge listened to the audiobooks last year and Crossroads wasn't that bad.

Henrik Zetterberg
Dec 7, 2007




Man, I listened to books 5-14 on audiobook on my 2x 45-minute commute every day and it took me like 3 years to get through the series.

My son has been reading the series for a couple years now and is on book 6ish. We both can’t wait for the tv show.

How are u
May 19, 2005



twistedmentat posted:

I tried to read the first book 20 years ago and I was bored to death. Please note this is also when I was at my move voracious reading, so its less I was too young and more it was boring. I remember telling my friend who lent me it that it made me think if Bilbo's party just kept going and going and there was no point to any of it. He told me "oh it gets real good in book 4" and I'm thinking I don't want to read that much before the series gets good.

But I've watched a bunch of videos about the world and its history and its really quite interesting. The idea that the Wheel of Time is literal, and this is some far future of earth is a neat idea. Though also the world map is god drat lazy and boring. One of those squares with mountains at one end and kingdom layouts seems really random. Though the world map isn't as important in a show as it is in the books.

The only other thing I know is "tugs on their braid"

Well, you missed out. They're really good books, you should read them.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

That just struck me as a big fuck you to any guy who's shorter, that it suggested that all his success is because he's tall. I guess that's not really his fault, but as I said, it just made me feel like he's a hack that has cruised to fame due to his appearance.

How are u posted:

Well, you missed out. They're really good books, you should read them.

If i had the same time to read today as I had 20 years ago, I might give them another try. The first book was sooooo boring.

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tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Torrannor posted:

Fair enough if you prefer post-ASOIAF fantasy books, but describing the Dragon Reborn as a farmboy who saves the world doesn't do him justice. Garion is a farmboy who saves the world and plays the tropes as straight as possible. The Dragon Reborn on the other hand subverts the trope in a ton of ways.

Oh jeez, David Eddings was my poo poo as a pre-teen and the Wheel of Time my favorite books for years as a teen but I never actually finished the books. I think book 11 might have been the last I read, and I just dropped out. When the new one came out I had just lost interest. Not because I think that might be the first Sanderson wrote, I'd just drifted away from the story. Seeing your mention of Garion sparked that memory of youth though, and I started digging through cupboards and shelves for my old copies of the Belgariad and Mallorean books. I must have read both series about 10 times when I was younger, but now I can't find Pawn of Prophecy to start them even though I know I must have it somewhere. The books were as cliche as poo poo in a lot of ways, yeah, but I loved them regardless, even above Lord of the Rings. Which is fine, but never really caught me. I saw someone once describe Tolkien as more of a historian than a fiction writer, and it rings true for me. I tried re-reading Lord of the Rings several times over the years, and just always get bored. If anything, I think films are a better medium for that story, at least for me, because it cuts a lot of the poo poo I dislike such as the songs. And Tom Bombadil. Who can gently caress right off. I know some people love those elements, but I dread them every time I try to re-read the book.

That aside, I loved things like magic allowing you to transform into animals and all the stuff about running around as wolves in the Belgariad/Mallorean, I loved Belgarath/Polgara, the fact they were these ancient beings of thousands of years who lived secluded lives we only ever got small peeks at, the different societies, Silk and Velvet's thief poo poo and so on. I can see now as an adult even just thinking about it how much of that was based on or grew out of stuff in Lord of the Rings, but in my head I love those elements from Eddings and just don't care about them in Tolkien. I wonder how they'll hold up on a re-read 20 odd years later. I dug out my copies of The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt too, and I'll try and finish the books after going through Belgariad/Mallorean, I think. I found some of my Raymond E. Feist and David Gemmell books from around those years too. Ahhhhh, nostalgia...

Edit: Apparently Eddings and his wife were charged with child abuse in the 70s going off their Wikipedia article, for neglecting and/or violently abusing their two adopted kids going off the linked newspaper articles on Wikipedia and served a year each in jail after the kids were taken away from them, before the whole thing was basically forgotten until after they'd died. Which takes the wind out of the idea of re-reading the books. It comes to something when I felt a mild bit of relief after seeing the words "child abuse" and then reading the article to find out it was "only" neglect and violence, rather than sexual abuse. God drat it :sigh:

tsob fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jul 25, 2021

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