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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001





A thread for discussing fencing at the games this year. While I'm pretty obsessed with the sport, I know that it can be bewildering to watch sometimes so here's a rundown of the game for those of you who are new to it and want to enjoy watching people fighting with swords for your personal enjoyment.

Fencing is split into three events based on weapon type:

Foil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-P_q5gdvRM
A stabbing weapon - you have to hit with the tip (slapping someone with the side of the blade doesn't count), you only score a point of you hit the torso, and in the event that both competitors hit at roughly the same time there is priority/right-of-way to decide who gets the point.
What you can expect to see is lots of back-and-forth movement up and down the piste, hopefully some fun clashing of blades as people try to parry their opponent while evading their opponent's attempts to parry their own attacks. Also some disgusting long marching attacks where one fencer saunters up to the other going "I'm gonna hit you and you can't stop me".

Epee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88mBQ2u2Wb0
Another stabbing weapon, physically much closer to a real duelling sword than the foil. Intended to simulate first-blood dueling, the rules are simple: be the first to hit anywhere on your opponent's body. In the event that both hit at the same time - within 40ms - both fencers are awarded a point.
What you can expect to see is lots of careful, cagey fighting. It's very easy to eat a counterattack on your wrist or arm while trying to get close enough to stab your opponent, so epeeists will be looking for just the right moment to try to land a hit.

Sabre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ipiJFlU_Dg
An edged weapon based on the modern cavalry sabre, slashing or stabbing your opponent anywhere above the waist counts as a hit. Like foil, there are right-of-way rules to decide who gets the point when both people charge screaming at each other and belt each other in the head.
What you can expect to see is, well, blink and you miss it. Sabre is the fastest of the three by far, so the athleticism and reflexes on display are pretty incredible. Referee calls often come down to one fencer making a minor error, e.g. hesitating slightly while their opponent commits to the attack, so watchability to the untrained eye can vary a lot.

Hit detection is done electronically: a light is displayed on the side of the fencer that successfully hit something. A coloured light (red for left, green for right) means they hit valid target, a white light means they hit something that doesn't score any points.

Right of way rules are used for foil and sabre to work out who gets the point if both fencers hit at roughly the same time. We look for whoever starts the attack first: so if you say to your opponent, "hey bro, I'm going to hit you with this sword", the onus is now on them to either make you retreat/hesitate, or let you swing and then dodge/parry. If their preferred method of defense fails and there's a double hit, then you as the attacker get the point.
However, if the attack fails, then the defender gets a chance to have a go and launch their own attack - and it's now your task to make sure that they fail (hesitate/get parried/miss). You'll hear the word "riposte" a lot, this is what an attack made directly after doing a successful parry is called.
Although the concept is pretty simple, this stuff can get notoriously tricky to follow at high levels, so hopefully the commentary will be good.

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BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic-games/en/results/fencing/olympic-schedule-and-results.htm

Live results page. Kinda hard to read: 2 events are being run simultaneously, and it's listed by bout time instead of dividing by event.

Men's Epee and Women's Foil is on the doxket for today. Should be exciting for Team USA.

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


I'm a sabre fencer so I'm particularly excited to see the women's individual sabre tournament and the team sabre events. The men's event was really fun to watch last night, Aron Szilagyi was on fire.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007





This is extremely grim. Just letting someone compete ignore the fact we have to treat him like Hannibal lecter

https://twitter.com/kumaraishwarya/status/1418709503378345985?s=19

Vaders Jester
Sep 9, 2009

Welcome to fucking Scotland.
:scotland:



Anyone know if the BBC are covering the fencing? I can't seem to find anything but I could just be being dense.

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


Jose posted:

This is extremely grim. Just letting someone compete ignore the fact we have to treat him like Hannibal lecter

https://twitter.com/kumaraishwarya/status/1418709503378345985?s=19

if it makes you feel any better the guy is at least probably not making any money off of this, olympic fencers typically have negative salaries. not like it makes the situation any better but hey, it kinda helps me cope a little bit

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Good Lord is the women's epee final a great watch.

E: and the men's sabre is a masterclass in, well, sabre. So incredibly precise.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 25, 2021

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Jose posted:

This is extremely grim. Just letting someone compete ignore the fact we have to treat him like Hannibal lecter

https://twitter.com/kumaraishwarya/status/1418709503378345985?s=19

This Buzzfeed article also has the anecdote about him kicking an unhoused person and laughing.

I'm involved with fencing in the US and most of the people I know have not been happy about this since back before he made selection.

Wifi Toilet
Oct 1, 2004



Toilet Rascal

LOL, fencers on CNBC just pacing back and forth for like 5 minutes now (the vest detection system on one of them is broke.)

Fascinating watching the tech support guys running around in a panic checking connections.

e: finally went to commercial

No. 1 ANIME HATER
Aug 8, 2009

Did you know I hate anime please bring it up so I can tell you how much I hate it I HATE IT, please bring it up! I hate it so much!! I just hate that dang anime so much!!! I hate those anime cartoons from Japan! I hate em! Please let me tell you about it!

This insane screaming woman on the CNBC feed is hilarious

Nooner
Mar 26, 2007

an A+ poster (:

Jose posted:

This is extremely grim. Just letting someone compete ignore the fact we have to treat him like Hannibal lecter

https://twitter.com/kumaraishwarya/status/1418709503378345985?s=19

I knew the sport had rapiers but this is ridiculous!!!

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die


Grimey Drawer

This is so chaotic that everything seems like total panic moves from both sides.

No. 1 ANIME HATER
Aug 8, 2009

Did you know I hate anime please bring it up so I can tell you how much I hate it I HATE IT, please bring it up! I hate it so much!! I just hate that dang anime so much!!! I hate those anime cartoons from Japan! I hate em! Please let me tell you about it!

This Canadian woman is aggro as gently caress.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die


Grimey Drawer

Get hosed Canada! :patriot:

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


Wifi Toilet posted:

LOL, fencers on CNBC just pacing back and forth for like 5 minutes now (the vest detection system on one of them is broke.)

Fascinating watching the tech support guys running around in a panic checking connections.

e: finally went to commercial

it's actually the wireless system, and not the vest itself. wireless fencing is still kinda in its infancy so the wireless equipment is failure-prone.

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


that was a great foil bout between Kiefer and Harvey. foil is kinda gross though as a sabre fencer. so much infighting. why is their distance so weird

Nooner
Mar 26, 2007

an A+ poster (:

Do you get extra points if you poke the other dude in the dick?

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


Nooner posted:

Do you get extra points if you poke the other dude in the dick?

i have done this before (accidentally, of course) and sadly, you do not

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


the groin is target area in foil tho so you would still get a point. i guess you could also get a point in epee for it. it's kind of a bad target to hit for strategy reasons though

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


ok why does max heinzer fence like that. i guess i respect his dedication to the bit but he's always so weird

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

A Gin Palace posted:

the groin is target area in foil tho so you would still get a point. i guess you could also get a point in epee for it. it's kind of a bad target to hit for strategy reasons though

Ehh, it happens in sloppy infighting or passing in epee such that it's not a surprising thing to happen when it does. I'm reffing a national event this weekend, and I've had two separate instances of guys getting getting hit in the groin. That said, it being cadets and juniors (youth categories) probably explains the frequency more than tactical reasoning.

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


BirdOfPlay posted:

Ehh, it happens in sloppy infighting or passing in epee such that it's not a surprising thing to happen when it does. I'm reffing a national event this weekend, and I've had two separate instances of guys getting getting hit in the groin. That said, it being cadets and juniors (youth categories) probably explains the frequency more than tactical reasoning.

i've swiped someone in the groin by accident going for a sloppy attack 2 (my bladework... needs some tlc) in sabre before

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



gently caress me I miss foil fencing so bad. :smith:

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



A Gin Palace posted:

ok why does max heinzer fence like that. i guess i respect his dedication to the bit but he's always so weird

Iím pretty sure itís all swagger to win the mind games, heís doing crazy stuff and showboating to confuse and demoralise his opponent. Entertaining to watch, anyway.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!





Holy poo poo that war cry Deriglazova gives when she lands a hit, she just throws her head back and screams.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



God dang how beautifully Siklosi fences. So clean. :swoon:

Edit: What the gently caress did they do to epee? These matches are not boring at all!!

Edit: This foil bronze match :vince:

Edit: The foil finals!! :vince: :vince:

Edit: :pusheen:

Siivola fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 25, 2021

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!





So Iím getting the sense Siklosi was by far the favorite for the final? Wow.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Yeah, he's the reigning world champion. Cannone is ranked twenty-something, and apparently had to fence a bunch of stars on his way to the finals.

Man, incredible matches. I think I need to go lie down, I got sweaty just watching.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!





Siivola posted:

Yeah, he's the reigning world champion. Cannone is ranked twenty-something, and apparently had to fence a bunch of stars on his way to the finals.

Man, incredible matches. I think I need to go lie down, I got sweaty just watching.

Dude should have realised that he was facing an RPG protagonist.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Siivola posted:

God dang how beautifully Siklosi fences. So clean. :swoon:

Edit: What the gently caress did they do to epee? These matches are not boring at all!!

Edit: This foil bronze match :vince:

Edit: The foil finals!! :vince: :vince:

Edit: :pusheen:

:911:

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


Siivola posted:

gently caress me I miss foil fencing so bad. :smith:

Same but sabre

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

Lee Keifer in the women's foil semis was a goddamned bulldozer. I think there was like 30 seconds left in the first period when she got to 15. That gold medal match versus Deraglazova was amazing.

Also, as someone upthread pointed out, epee has been really damned exciting!

defaultluser
Jan 13, 2007

The person can drink sake for the following five reasons. First of all, for the national holiday. Moreover, it fills with the nectar. Finally, for reasons. Next, to heal the dryness of the place. After that, to refuse the future

Fun Shoe

habeasdorkus posted:

Lee Keifer in the women's foil semis was a goddamned bulldozer. I think there was like 30 seconds left in the first period when she got to 15. That gold medal match versus Deraglazova was amazing.

Also, as someone upthread pointed out, epee has been really damned exciting!

As a former foil-fencer, I've always wondered why the gently caress epee matches always move at the sped of Slow?

the foil matches always finish shortly after sabre, while everyone's still waiting around forever for epee

also, that foil gold was domination!

Wifi Toilet
Oct 1, 2004



Toilet Rascal

I don't know who any of these people are and there are no rankings displayed so I can't root for the underdog, so I'm just going for whoever has the coolest masks.



This is some Star Wars looking poo poo

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


defaultluser posted:

As a former foil-fencer, I've always wondered why the gently caress epee matches always move at the sped of Slow?
Defending and attacking at the same time is hard and taking away right of way rules means you really need to do both at once.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

In part, epee has just been pushing athleticism since 2000, and it's finally starting to pay off. Another part is that the non-combativity rule overhaul might've finally directed epeeists to fence and not hope for the clock and a coin flip to save them. Don't get me wrong it's still, generally, the slowest and, usually, has the largest numbers, but things are changing. At the US Fencing Summer Nationals, there were days were the epee event beat foil to the finals strip.

Wifi Toilet posted:

I don't know who any of these people are and there are no rankings displayed so I can't root for the underdog, so I'm just going for whoever has the coolest masks.



This is some Star Wars looking poo poo



Lol, allowing painted masks was the best thing ever and I love all of them. Also, I hate that, for a time, it was an armorer's decision (i.e. the most conservative minded of tournament officials) who had final say on mask designs. There's a kid in the US circuit that rocks a panda face and it's the best thing ever.

EDIT: Holy hell, Meinhardt (#1) and Massialas(#3) are out in the 32s! The USA's only shot at a medal in MF is from Itkin, who was NOT guaranteed an Olympic slot at the beginning of the year. Zagunis is the only remaining US fencer in WS. It'd be really cool if she snagged her 3rd Olympic medal, but doubtful.

BirdOfPlay fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jul 26, 2021

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



defaultluser posted:

As a former foil-fencer, I've always wondered why the gently caress epee matches always move at the sped of Slow?
Stop hits rule attacks drool.

A Gin Palace
Feb 12, 2013


The Russian Olympic Committee (huh what a weird name for a country) women's sabre team is on fire

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

EDIT: Holy hell, Meinhardt (#1) and Massialas(#3) are out in the 32s!

Shiiiiiit

Miles didnít make the team?

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Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

A Gin Palace posted:

that was a great foil bout between Kiefer and Harvey. foil is kinda gross though as a sabre fencer. so much infighting. why is their distance so weird

I do sabre, my son does foil. Every once in a while I drop into a foil class.

The whole infighting thing is fun, I wish there was some way to do it in sabre.

dupersaurus posted:

Miles didnít make the team?

No, he was knocked out on points months ago.


Fake edit: painted fencing mask -

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