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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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FoolyCharged posted:The intro is trying way too hard to be cool and is so lame that it wraps around to being awesome. Can I get a "OOH WA AA AA AA!"
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Aug 14, 2021 13:20
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One other thing about turning buildings: there's no proximity rule for gather points and supply drop odds, so China in particular can just turn their supply center and position it just so in order to have the supply trucks just sit in place getting loaded and then immediately unloaded. In addition to being much faster income, all the pointless extra labor feels true to real life militaries as well.
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Aug 14, 2021 13:55
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The game is sadly lacking in dick jokes though. If the stories I've read are any indication an army may marches on its stomach but the reason it does are dick jokes.
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Aug 14, 2021 14:11
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Marching on your dick sounds painful.
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Aug 14, 2021 14:23
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You couldn't march on yours if the drill sergeant chopped your legs off!
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Aug 14, 2021 14:26
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Also: Zero Hour has the best mods, many of which have patches that let you play the campaigns with them, gotta do a run with Shockwave one of these days...
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Aug 14, 2021 15:44
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And yes, using the ferry is a thing in this mission. Sadly from what I remember it doesn't have a very big cargo hold, so whatever forces you send over will most likely not be able to accomplish much.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:04
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The adobe brick GLA buildings just sitting in the middle of downtown Hong Kong made me laugh.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:58
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One thing I really dislike about Generals is that for a game that takes place in cities and other tight confines a lot the pathfinding on the tanks and larger vehicles is horrendous. I also understand that may be intentional but it makes it no less frustrating.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:59
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Kibayasu posted:One thing I really dislike about Generals is that for a game that takes place in cities and other tight confines a lot the pathfinding on the tanks and larger vehicles is horrendous. I also understand that may be intentional but it makes it no less frustrating. It is especially frustrating for slower units being shot at.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:38
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The reason to build as many gatling cannons as possible is because gatling cannons are just really cool. Is a bunker with rocket soldiers better against hard targets? Of course, but it's obviously not as stylish as sandblasting tanks to death with a billion bullets. 
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Aug 14, 2021 22:26
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i like to put two flame tanks in the ferry with however many gatling tanks fit with them. use the gatling tanks for overwatch, and then set up a flame wall with one tank, then creep the other forward into the fire. repeat until victorious.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:13
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China 03: A Flood of Violence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0V6tfhj1DE China 03: A Flood of Violence  With GLA cells popping up across the country, reports are now coming out that the Hubei province is under attack, with threats that the Three Gorges drat may fall under their control. Link up with Special Agent Black Lotus and the forces under her command, and drive out the GLA forces from the area!   The GLA works on toxins and bio-chemicals, and Wuhan is down the river from the Three Gorges drat...   Location: Three Gorges Dam, Hubei, China Objective: Eliminate the GLA presence in the area. Author's note: Probably one of the most memorable missions, thanks to the cool in-game cutscene that featured in most (all?) promotional material for the game.   MiG RANGE: Short-Medium ARMOR: Airplane WEAPON: Napalm Missiles COST: 1200 This multi-role fighter is the basic air unit of the Chinese side. In the early stages of awar, the Chinese can dominate the air and do considerable damage. Each is armed with two napalm missiles, and groups of MiGs can create firestroms. Author's Note: The "Guard" function is such an amazing feature to combine with planes like the MiG and I regret never truly using it until now.  Black Lotus RANGE: Short-Medium ARMOR: Human WEAPON: Laptop COST: 1500 A master hacker, Black Lotus can capture structures, disrupt vehicles, and steal money from the opposition. Always stealthed, she is difficult to detect and harder to apprehend. Author's Note: Lacking any personal defence, Black Lotus is an interesting unit with some cool abilities, but requires an escort for meaningful contributions, and they aren't stealthed like she is.  Troop Crawler RANGE: Short ARMOR: Tank WEAPON: None COST: 1400 This large troop transport can carry up to eight Red Guards and dispense them in an instant. Equipped with stealth detection. When loaded with troops, this unit is ideal for rapidly capturing key structures on the battlefield. Author's Note: Spawning in with its 8 passengers, there's some bang-for-your-buck potential. You pay $200 for the troop crawler, while the rest is the cost for infantry.  Airfield ARMOR: Structure COST: 1000 POWER USAGE: 1 PURPOSE: Trains Aircraft The Air Field can produce, re-arm, and maintain up to four MiG aircraft. The MiG Armor upgrade can be developed here. Author's Note: You know, I've never really questioned it, but why doesn't China get domestically-produced aircraft? I understand that they have MiGs or MiG derivatives, but this seems like a strange omission. Aftermath: With the GLA defeated once more, one can only hope that this will be the last of their incursions into Chinese territory!
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Aug 15, 2021 16:46
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Author's Note: You know, I've never really questioned it, but why doesn't China get domestically-produced aircraft? I understand that they have MiGs or MiG derivatives, but this seems like a strange omission. Most Chinese military equipment up until the last twenty years or so have been derivatives of foreign equipment and vehicles. It's only really in the last ten years or so that China's started to become known for making genuine domestic designs for aircraft, ships, and military vehicles rather than derivates from foreign (primarily Soviet) equipment.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:59
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I really don't like the font they use for mission briefings. It's fine for everything else, but way to make the mission loading screen even more boring than it already is.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:00
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Cythereal posted:Most Chinese military equipment up until the last twenty years or so have been derivatives of foreign equipment and vehicles. It's only really in the last ten years or so that China's started to become known for making genuine domestic designs for aircraft, ships, and military vehicles rather than derivates from foreign (primarily Soviet) equipment. Sure, but they at least called derivatives a domestic name, yeah? Just seems strange to stick with the Russian name. THE BAR posted:I really don't like the font they use for mission briefings. It's fine for everything else, but way to make the mission loading screen even more boring than it already is. I hate the ingame font because its just harder to read. I'll have to check the options/ini files again to see if maybe theres a way to change it.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:02
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IIRC, this mission is what got Generals banned in China; they couldn't stand to see Three Gorges destroyed.
anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 17:02
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  Radar FACTION: China COST: 500 PREREQUISITE: Command Center PURPOSE: Provides General with a Minimap Developed and deployed at the Command Center, Radar capability activated the Radar Map in the Command Bar. Author's Note: The minimap is quite useful for reacting to attacks, revealing [REDACTED], and quickly scouring the map.  Land Mines FACTION: China COST: 500 PREREQUISITE: None PURPOSE: Surrounds the building with mines. When developed at any Chinese Structure, Mines surround the structure and are invisible to the enemy. Author's Note: An interesting way to afford short-range protection to any building, they are only truly effective against attempts to capture the building, or units that get too close.  Capture Building FACTION: China, GLA, USA COST: 1000 PREREQUISITE: Barracks PURPOSE: Allows the basic infantry unit (Red Guard, [REDACTED], [REDACTED]) to capture structures. The Capture Building ability allows any basic infantry to capture Neutral or Enemy structures. Author's Note: While the ability to capture buildings can be incredibly powerful, one has to weigh it against the time it takes to capture said buildings, or the cooldown that a unit must wait before they can attempt it.  Black Napalm FACTION: China COST: 2000 PREREQUISITE: War Factory PURPOSE: Increases the damage dealt by fire-based weapons (Dragon Tank, MiG, [REDACTED], Firestorm) Developed at the War Factory, Black Napalm increases the firepower of all flame units by 25%. Author's Note: At a whopping 2000 credits, its a little pricey, but if fire-based weapons are your thing, you should not skip this one!  Chain Guns FACTION: China COST: 1500 PREREQUISITE: War Factory PURPOSE: Increases the damage dealt by Gatling weapons (Gatling Tank, Gatling Cannon, [REDACTED]) Developed at the War Factory, the Chain Gun upgrade increases the firepower of all Gatling weapons by 25%. Author's Note: Costing 500 less than Black Napalm is a nice start, and you'll get your money's worth when your primary base defense is made all the more deadlier.  Red Guard Training FACTION: China COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 1 PURPOSE: All newly trained Red Guard units start at Rank 1 veterancy. Red Guard infantry emerge from the Barracks* as veterans. Author's Note: Always grab this one before you start your flood of Red Guard infantry. The upgrade also applies to Red Guard infantry that are provided with the Troop Crawler.  Artillery Barrage I FACTION: China COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Allows for an Artillery Barrage of 12 guns to be called in anywhere on the map. From the Command Center, you can call in an artillery strike from off the map. Author's Note: A great way to deal damage without the risk of retaliation, the first level of AB is more for general harassment when compared to higher ranks of this ability.  Artillery Barrage II FACTION: China COST: 2 General Points PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Allows for an Artillery Barrage of 24 guns to be called in anywhere on the map. From the Command Center, you can call in an artillery strike from off the map. Author's Note: Doubling your firepower with a single added point is pretty sweet, and brings this ability to a far more useful tool, being able to destroy most buildings without issue.  Cluster Mines FACTION: China COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Air Deployed Mines for defensive or offensive purposes. Ability to call in a strike of Cluster Mines on a targeted area. Cluster Mines are invisible to the enemy. Deployed from the Command Center. Author's Note: The same as mines spawned from the building upgrade, Cluster Mines can be put to great use by the ingenious General who wields them.  Emergency Repairs FACTION: China, GLA, USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Instant repairs to all vehicles within a given radius. Ability to repair vehicles in an area of the map for a duration of time*. Author's Note: I don't recall there being a DoT effect on the ability's area. Nonetheless, the ability to keep units in fighting shape can be a blessing in any situation.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:49
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anilEhilated posted:IIRC, this mission is what got Generals banned in China; they couldn't stand to see Three Gorges destroyed. From the CnC wiki quote:The Generals series was banned in mainland China[1], with even contemporary releases in pirated game shops being confiscated by authorities. This was the second major ban of a Command & Conquer sub-series after the ban of Red Alert titles.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:52
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Even beyond the specific campaign actions, the Chinese in this game aren't presented in a positive light. Widespread use of "brutal" tactics like flame weapons and land mines, combined with gear that's generally around 40-50 years behind the American equivalents (the american arsenal was futuristic when the game came out, while the chinses aresenal is from the seventies) does make them look pretty villainous, even if they aren't the official bad guys for this game. I can totally see Chinese fans not being happy. EDIT: With respect to the difficulty, are there actually stat buffs applied to the enemy units on brutal, or are you just frustrated about how scorpions and battlemasters match up? It's not unreasonable for the scorpions to have rockets at this point, it is an upgrade available as soon as you build the factory. mr_stibbons fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 18:06
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mr_stibbons posted:Even beyond the specific campaign actions, the Chinese in this game aren't presented in a positive light. Widespread use of "brutal" tactics like flame weapons and land mines, combined with gear that's generally around 40-50 years behind the American equivalents (the american arsenal was futuristic when the game came out, while the chinses aresenal is from the seventies) does make them look pretty villainous, even if they aren't the official bad guys for this game. I can totally see Chinese fans not being happy. Honestly? I think its less about the Chinese population and more about censorship by the Chinese government. If we look at the three scenarios so far, we have a nuke being released on a military parade, a convention center taken over by terrorists, and a drat being blown up as a regrettable but necessary tactic to stop the GLA from advancing. In the first mission, I think the only negative thing is that China can't defend such an important event. The second mission is more topical now than it could ever have been in 2003. The third mission has some Chinese villages on the river shoreline get levelled, and I could see how Chinese forces choosing to blow up their own facilities could be seen quite negatively, especially when drawing comparisons to China's prior history with blowing up dams to Technology-wise, I don't buy it. When playing with the expanded arsenal, for a 2000's version of China, the Red Guard is certainly a unit that sticks out like a sore thumb, but "modernizing" that unit would be too powerful for the horde bonus they get. The models are low quality enough that they could've just changed the audio for them to sound more like a burst fire from an assault rifle and they'd be fine. After all, even a game like Hearts of Iron gets banned, mostly because of its portrayal of Chinese Warlords as being independents, or because of the inclusion of Tibet. Then again, I'm just a white nerd from Canada who plays games. 
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Aug 15, 2021 18:30
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mr_stibbons posted:EDIT: With respect to the difficulty, are there actually stat buffs applied to the enemy units on brutal, or are you just frustrated about how scorpions and battlemasters match up? It's not unreasonable for the scorpions to have rockets at this point, it is an upgrade available as soon as you build the factory. Here are a bunch of values dumped straight from GameData.ini Veterancy Bonuses posted:WeaponBonus = VETERAN RATE_OF_FIRE 120% Rate of Fire - Difficulty posted:WeaponBonus = SOLO_AI_EASY RATE_OF_FIRE 80% Health - Difficulty posted:HumanSoloPlayerHealthBonus_Easy = 150% So, yes, they don't do more damage, you just have less health and they shoot faster 
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Aug 15, 2021 18:41
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To speak a bit on Generals in China, people definitely still got a hold of it one way or another and it's well-liked in the community. From a modding perspective (where my main interest/knowledge lies), there are a decent few Chinese-made mods for ZH, but not as many for the RA series. BUT, what you will see is the Generals China faction serving as a template for mods for these other games, for example a lot of Chinese RA2 mods will add a PLA faction with overlords, flame weapons and hacking, so it definitely struck a chord with the audience. I actually didn't know about RA2 being banned there, because, again, the game has had a long-running Chinese mod scene, with most of the biggest, current projects being from there. I've actually done some localization work on a couple of them, both East and West devs have done some really impressive things with engine extensions. Mordja fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 18:57
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I don't think that part in the second level is supposed to be a nuclear bomb? Just a very large explosion. Both will produce a mushroom cloud. I forgot you were playing these on the hardest difficulty. Just the third mission and that's already brutal (hyuk). I don't remember much about the later missions but even on normal I remember have trouble.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:58
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Technology-wise, I don't buy it. When playing with the expanded arsenal, for a 2000's version of China, the Red Guard is certainly a unit that sticks out like a sore thumb, but "modernizing" that unit would be too powerful for the horde bonus they get. The models are low quality enough that they could've just changed the audio for them to sound more like a burst fire from an assault rifle and they'd be fine. The battlemaster also looks pretty outdated. The model is heavily based off the type 59, which started service in 1959. By the time the game was released this would have been outdated and replaced by more modern tanks that looked quite different, and unlikely to be the primary battle tank, much less by the time of the near future setting of the game.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:14
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Yeah, it's important to understand that while mushroom clouds are associated with nuclear bombs, the "mushroom" dust cloud shape is a function of any sufficiently large explosion. For instance, here's a natural one coming from Mt. Redoubt volcano in Alaska in 1990. An explosion creates a vast amount of lighter-than-air gas in a very small amount of time (smoke, water vapor, etc.), which is also typically very hot. This gas then rises extremely rapidly due to being hotter and lighter than the surrounding air, before cooling off and spreading out as it hits air that is no longer denser than it. It drags the dust thrown up by the explosion with it, thus creating the cloud shape.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:21
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Yeah, mushroom clouds are automatically nukes, but I like to think that's what they were going for and didn't put the melting effect because of all the civilians there.mr_stibbons posted:The battlemaster also looks pretty outdated. The model is heavily based off the type 59, which started service in 1959. By the time the game was released this would have been outdated and replaced by more modern tanks that looked quite different, and unlikely to be the primary battle tank, much less by the time of the near future setting of the game. Sure, but the Overlord tank by comparison isn't outdated like the battlemaster. We'll see it eventually when we play as the USA, but there's not much you can do to be at the same "level of technology" as they are without simply copying them.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:26
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I don't think I bothered to play this game on hard/brutal just because but anyway. First mission on normal have you enough units to just attack-move the gla base. There's also a backdoor that sends you straight into the nuclear bunker if you lost your units somehow or don't want to do a frontal assault. I have to say that I had no idea about the extra units around the city ruins. Second mission is also easy because the gla won't deploy their tanks, only light vehicles and infantry, so a combined force of dragon and Gatling tanks is enough. Or you could just defend and snipe the convention center using the arty barrage, but that's really boring. This mission you can use mainly migs, as mentioned in the video. You can plug the choke to your base using the mines in strategic locations and bunker + Gatling defense.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:07
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It's been ages since I played, so I only vaguely recall the plot, but doesn't this game do that thing where (light spoilers)all the campaigns happen, which results in the Chinese ending being arguably the happiest one? The chinese army in this game is definitely very stereotypical. Notice the pagoda style base buildings. Fangz fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 23:18
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Are the Red Guard that come with a Troop Crawler affected by Red Guard Training?
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Aug 16, 2021 07:02
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Yikes, the GLA Scorpion Tanks getting their missiles already is def one way to make brutal live up to its name.  Now, despite what Black Lotus says, you DON'T need to destroy the dam, as after a bit, a random GLA tank on the far side will trundle near and begin firing on it. While the GLA forces from the intro will attack you base from the south if you don't destroy the dam, between the bunker, garrisonable tower, and your own starting forces, you can hold them off pretty well. This give you a lot more time to build up and get ready for defending the northern crossing, which between the mines and a combo of Tank Hunter filled Bunkers and Gatling Turrets, is pretty easy to hold. The GLA has crap all air defense, outside of some stuff far to the south of their base, so as said in the video, just using your MIG to clean everything up is nice and effective. Plus it is a solid way to introduce the MIG and demonstrate its capabilities. Also, the GLA hole that lets them rebuild doesn't count as a structure you need to destroy for the mission to be completed funny enough, so as soon as that last building got taken down, instant mission victory. Definitely one of the most memorable missions though, and I can see why it was featured in tons of the promotion and leadup to the game's release. The water draining effect was also a pretty cool thing for the time, double so for a C&C game, and same with the entire map being changed due to the dam being destroyed. White Coke posted:Are the Red Guard that come with a Troop Crawler affected by Red Guard Training? Yup.
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Aug 16, 2021 07:41
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Being able to flood map sections by destroying dams and stuff would've been cool to see more as a general mechanic rather than a one-off set piece, just for the tactical potential of it. I can't recall if we see anything else similar again in the game, but my memory says no. Also on the lack of FMV's... The FMV's always gave the C&C games a sort of schlocky B-movie vibe, which some of them leaned into more and others tried to fight against, which worked well for them with the sci-fi vibe in all of them. I don't think it would've worked for Generals at all, I think they took the right approach.
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Aug 16, 2021 09:08
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PurpleXVI posted:Being able to flood map sections by destroying dams and stuff would've been cool to see more as a general mechanic rather than a one-off set piece, just for the tactical potential of it. I can't recall if we see anything else similar again in the game, but my memory says no. My problem with it is that they don't even go for pre-rendered cutscenes like the MiG flying through the canyon in Red Alert. Just all ingame stuff. So far, anyways.
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Aug 16, 2021 11:08
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Generals itself is very much a thrown-together game. It had a zeitgeist to catch, and while it's remarkably complete for a rushed game we will see what the devs actually had in mind a bit later. I suspect the reason it didn't have pre-rendered cutscenes in the core game is simply because Westwood was dead by this point. Westwood had their own soundstages and special effects studio just for cutscene production, and that was all gone by 2003 (taking all the expertise with it, I imagine). The previews made much of how the game engine was so good it didn't need pre-rendering, and I think the developers genuinely believed this.
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Aug 16, 2021 14:31
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Loxbourne posted:Generals itself is very much a thrown-together game. It had a zeitgeist to catch, and while it's remarkably complete for a rushed game we will see what the devs actually had in mind a bit later. Yeah, if you want something along this game's lines but with more Westwood cheesy charm, Act of War: Direct Action is a fairly obscure game you can get on GOG that's along these lines but more of an old-school Tom Clancy feel (the 'terrorists' are just a front for an evil megacorp and when they tech up they ditch the Middle Eastern insurgent look for high-tech stealth and advanced weapons).
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Aug 16, 2021 14:54
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Cythereal posted:Yeah, if you want something along this game's lines but with more Westwood cheesy charm, Act of War: Direct Action is a fairly obscure game you can get on GOG that's along these lines but more of an old-school Tom Clancy feel (the 'terrorists' are just a front for an evil megacorp and when they tech up they ditch the Middle Eastern insurgent look for high-tech stealth and advanced weapons). That's my favourite thing about them, they go from Al Qaeda to Cobra. My other favourite thing about them is their ridiculous stealth railgun tank that can also shoot down airplanes.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:29
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Mordja posted:That's my favourite thing about them, they go from Al Qaeda to Cobra. My other favourite thing about them is their ridiculous stealth railgun tank that can also shoot down airplanes. And in the expansion, when the bad guys get ahold of not-SHIELD's technology and produce their units, one of your own troopers will shout that this is bullshit, it's not loving fair to be on the receiving end of this crap.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:34
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Cythereal posted:One subtle thing about this game that I do like, though: it's the first and only time in the series where you can explicitly play as a female character. One of the playable specialist generals is a woman. But then you'd be playing Rivals. Jobbo_Fett posted:Sure, but the Overlord tank by comparison isn't outdated like the battlemaster. We'll see it eventually when we play as the USA, but there's not much you can do to be at the same "level of technology" as they are without simply copying them. *teeeechnically all the c&c heavy tanks are based off the Flakpanzer Maus that never got beyond concept sketches since they all have symmetrical gun layouts as opposed to two differently sized ones like the Maus prototype that was actually built.
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Aug 17, 2021 02:52
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Gross. The Overlord tank (And Mammoth tanks) are great and sexy and marvels of modern tank design.
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Aug 17, 2021 02:58
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Gross. The Overlord tank (And Mammoth tanks) are great and sexy and marvels of modern tank design. There’s just something about driving house sized masses of gently caress YOU.
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Aug 17, 2021 03:50
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