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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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I think the reason we don't see more "expand the map as the fight goes on"-levels in RTS games is that they're probably easier to do wrong than right. Like, if you expand the map in the wrong direction, you might suddenly invalidate a lot of fixed defenses the player's built. Plus a lot of RTS games' gameplay is kind of "survive until you reach your max tech tier for the map, then grind down the enemy." So if you're already at the max tech tier, unlocking another map section just means more grinding, since you're already over the part of the battle that requires some kind of conscious thought.
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Aug 26, 2021 10:36
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THE BAR posted:
Not nice 
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Aug 26, 2021 11:16
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PurpleXVI posted:I think the reason we don't see more "expand the map as the fight goes on"-levels in RTS games is that they're probably easier to do wrong than right. Like, if you expand the map in the wrong direction, you might suddenly invalidate a lot of fixed defenses the player's built. Plus a lot of RTS games' gameplay is kind of "survive until you reach your max tech tier for the map, then grind down the enemy." So if you're already at the max tech tier, unlocking another map section just means more grinding, since you're already over the part of the battle that requires some kind of conscious thought. Supreme Commander and expansion did it roughly right I think, the stated motive was to let the player not have to grind through a build order at the start of every mission every twenty minutes and it allowed the game to shove a few T1 scrapfights at the player before moving to the Tfuckyou fights of the endgame. Sure, from an MP purist point of view it's the coward's way out, but letting someone set their own operational tempo strike me as pretty polite all things considered. Outside of a few "not this time" cases, which could be fairly rude to the average, fairly new at the game, player.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:18
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UED Special Ops posted:"Don't push me." "Don't get on my bad side" I found this for all of us who love that Quad audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=294ziJLa8wQ
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Aug 26, 2021 12:58
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SIGSEGV posted:Supreme Commander and expansion did it roughly right I think, the stated motive was to let the player not have to grind through a build order at the start of every mission every twenty minutes and it allowed the game to shove a few T1 scrapfights at the player before moving to the Tfuckyou fights of the endgame. Supreme Commander was also pretty good about avoiding gotcha moments when the map expanded. Most of the time, the map expanded in directions where the earlier objectives were already pointing you towards, and when it invalidates fixed defenses it's almost always in the context of "You've eliminated the threat in that direction" sometimes with "Now set up shop in the base area you just destroyed." Though it helps in that game that resources are infinite, so you're never wasting limited resources when that happens.
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Aug 26, 2021 13:19
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Yeah, the fact that all missions had a structured plan told from the start, that you could get an idea of the general layout before landing and so on meant that even the nastiest surprises would have been foreseeable not in a bad, gamey way, but in a "this is one of the various worst case scenarios I could imagine while looking at that mission plan" way. I know they never had the time to do all of what they wanted with it, but they got to do a lot of it right anyway.
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Aug 26, 2021 13:34
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Groetgaffel posted:I'll puncture the next thing that moves! This is the unit with my scrap quote. "Gimme that." God, every one of the Quad Cannon's lines rules.
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Aug 26, 2021 16:39
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Cythereal posted:Supreme Commander was also pretty good about avoiding gotcha moments when the map expanded. Most of the time, the map expanded in directions where the earlier objectives were already pointing you towards, and when it invalidates fixed defenses it's almost always in the context of "You've eliminated the threat in that direction" sometimes with "Now set up shop in the base area you just destroyed."
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Aug 26, 2021 16:50
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All those cases were predictable though, the mission briefing would always give you a rough idea of what angles counter attacks would be coming from, the entire campaign expects you to have solidly settled at T3 before the first map extension, and I can only think of one case where the intensity of the assault isn't expected if you aren't carefully reading the briefing sideways.
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Aug 26, 2021 16:55
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With some foreknowledge you could absolutely break those missions by turtling up hard before doing the first objective. There's on in particular where you have to rescue am Aeon loyalist. I believe the first objective is to take out a small base, second to rescue the loyalist which you then get to keep around in the form of an Aeon sACU no matter which faction you play. Then the map expands two or three times with various objectives, including killing an enemy commander followed by having to destroy a large base in the opposite direction. Aeon has an Experimental that produces infinite resources. I played the mission as UEF. Built the resource generator, then built literally 100 Mavors, the UEF experimental infinite range artillery. Then when the map expanded anything revealed would be instantly deleted. 
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Aug 26, 2021 17:17
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Redeye Flight posted:This is the unit with my scrap quote. Just the funky way he says "quad cannon" is fantastic.
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Aug 26, 2021 17:54
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mr_stibbons posted:This mission is a big "the war on terror does not work that way". Terrorist groups would not be rampaging through defenseless villages burning down houses and robbing aid convoys. More likely, they'd send a few guys to shakedown the villagers after the aid had arrived, or even have supporters among the villagers pass them resources of their own will. This mission is cartoon villainy nonsense. I'm wondering if someone just saw the opening of Black Hawk Down and didn't remember reality was a little more complicated. It does match with how the movie does the opening scenes. Jobbo_Fett posted:Author's Note: A good case study on how a good unit is made great thanks to its voice actor. There's NEVER a reason not to make Quad Cannons. 
Psion fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 18:48
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PurpleXVI posted:I think the reason we don't see more "expand the map as the fight goes on"-levels in RTS games is that they're probably easier to do wrong than right. Like, if you expand the map in the wrong direction, you might suddenly invalidate a lot of fixed defenses the player's built. Plus a lot of RTS games' gameplay is kind of "survive until you reach your max tech tier for the map, then grind down the enemy." So if you're already at the max tech tier, unlocking another map section just means more grinding, since you're already over the part of the battle that requires some kind of conscious thought. This brings up memories of Warzone 2100 campaign, where I spent any extra mission time building defences all around in case next mission expands on that direction...
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Aug 26, 2021 21:28
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Banemaster posted:This brings up memories of Warzone 2100 campaign, where I spent any extra mission time building defences all around in case next mission expands on that direction... And then those defenses didn't actually do anything because the enemy got in from offmap or flew their troops in. Man, that was a hella fun game.
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Aug 26, 2021 21:39
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Psion posted:I'm wondering if someone just saw the opening of Black Hawk Down and didn't remember reality was a little more complicated. It does match with how the movie does the opening scenes. We had a glimpse of the title screen in one of the late Chinese mission videos. It is basically Black Hawk Down in the Generals engine. The devs knew exactly who their target market was, and which parts of their worldview to play to.
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Aug 27, 2021 00:01
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I don't know if it's satire or just a weird design choice, to have mines look like glowing treasure piles.
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Aug 27, 2021 09:38
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nvm you're talking about the minefields created by the Chinese buildings 
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Aug 27, 2021 20:41
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THE BAR posted:I don't know if it's satire or just a weird design choice, to have mines look like glowing treasure piles. Definitely weird design choice. My best guess is so that they look visually distinct, while being an entirely different color to detected stealth items, and not blending in with ground features.
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Aug 27, 2021 21:04
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GLA 03: The Astana Riots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWaAb2h5Z4 GLA 03: The Astana Riots  Despite amassing wealth from the Almaty region, the GLA is in need of more money. In order to accomplish this, agents have been sent to foment unrest in the city of Astana, a financial hub of the country. Destroying and looting business should allow us to once more accumulate large amounts of money for our future endeavors.   Renamed Nur-Sultan in 2019, Astana is in the northern part of Kazakhstan  Location: Astana, Kazakhstan Objective: Accumulate 40,000 credits Author's note: This mission has two major problems: it is exactly the same as the previous mission, and it's too short.   Angry Mob RANGE: Short ARMOR: Infantry WEAPON: Pistols, Molotov Cocktails, AK-47s COST: 800 The GLA can incite an Angry Mob to attack enemy positions. Starting with a group of five, an Angry Mob can grow in size. Author's Note: One of the better unit icons in the game, the Angry Mob is deceptively strong. Either make sure they never get too many, or counter with AoE attacks.   SCUD Launcher FACTION: GLA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Unlocks the SCUD Launcher for production. Ability to build the SCUD Launcher at the Arms Dealer. Author's Note: Why make me make this choice?! Whatever, bomb trucks and rocket buggies it is then.  Cash Bounty I FACTION: GLA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Gain income for each unit you destroy. Ability to earn a cash bounty for every eliminated unit or building based on its cost to produce. Author's Note: Of limited use if not investing for, at least, Level 2.  Cash Bounty II FACTION: GLA COST: 2 General Points PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Gain income for each unit you destroy. Ability to earn a cash bounty for every eliminated unit or building based on its cost to produce. Author's Note: You only receive 5% of a unit's cost at level 1, while you double that (10%) for level 2. Definitely a worthwhile investment on low-money maps. Aftermath: Having stolen from both the Americans and the Chinese, the GLA are now set to increase their attacks and commence pushing out the superpowers back to their borders!
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Aug 27, 2021 23:33
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Jobbo_Fett posted:The GLA can incite an Angry Mob to attack enemy positions. Starting with a group of five, an Angry Mob can grow in size. I like this unit's AK-47 upgrade. Both the in-game power upgrade and the voice-over. And yeah, I agree with the assessment that this unit is a literal glass cannon. They will melt pretty much everything on the ground (no surface to air capabilities), but it will die after two US dedicated anti infantry attack, or 2 seconds after China/GLA anti-infantry vehicle attacks.
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Aug 27, 2021 23:43
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AK-47s FOR EVERYBODY!
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Aug 27, 2021 23:44
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Yeah, this mission right here is bizarre and just doesn't really work or fit at all. Being basically a redux of the last mission only in a more urban setting is... questionable at best. Double so since there are barely any missions in each campaign and wasting now two of them like this really hurts things. It is also weird how you suddenly just have almost the entire rest of the GLA units unlocked here without any fanfare, just here is several new units, no introduction or anything just here they are. This mission would have worked a heck of a lot better if your unit choices were greatly limited, to represent this being an opportunistic raid for supplies with the riot being a cover, and would have slightly upped the challenge as well. Would have shown off the Angry Mob better as a bonus too. Not having a supply dock at your base and thus having to rely on taking down buildings, enemy units, and the bounty general power would have further spiced things up. Maybe have a much bigger map and have the money crates give less to stretch things out a bit as well. But alas, that's vanilla Generals for you... missed opportunity after opportunity. I 100% agree with what has been said about the Angry Mob, a fantastic glass cannon that once it hits critical mass can be ultra scary, but is also incredibly fragile and helpless vs air and aoe. The SCUD Launcher is honestly a pretty nice unit, although one that can be a bit tough to use properly. Glass armor as to be expected, and bulky length-wise, but huge range, and being able to customize the warhead makes it very flexible. Great for cracking a tough defense or luring enemies forward into an ambush, but having to spend a general point on it makes a tough sell at times. Sadly there is just nothing to this mission. The one part of the map not shown is a super small and weak Chinese base with nothing interesting around it, and the map in general is just way to small for its own good. The US forces might as well not exist and can be removed from play with just your starting mobs, and honestly, just building a couple extra mobs is all you need to win with. Neither the US or China throw much at you, just a trickle of single units mainly, outside of small Red Guard patrols, and every vehicle drops a 1000 credit money crate, so this one just goes way to quick. Still, hopefully now with a mighty... 80,000 American dollars, things will pick up.
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Aug 28, 2021 00:12
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The Angry Mob is just an amazing unit in so many ways and I love them to bits, even if the map itself is kind of anemic. The AK47 upgrade line is legendary, too.
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Aug 28, 2021 00:16
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They should realy have combined this and the last mission. AK-47s for everyone is the best upgrade line in the base Generals.
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Aug 28, 2021 01:17
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Veloxyll posted:They should realy have combined this and the last mission. Agreed. Would even work with the map expansion, have the initial looting take place on the outskirts of the city, and then after you get enough, the map expands, the riot happens, and you can then go from there.
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Aug 28, 2021 01:31
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I think the Angry Mob is the only non-suicide unit that can kill itself. If the Angry Mob is sent on a far distance and its members start getting separated too much, the mob will gradually kill itself. There's a lot of neat things about it, most of which were shown in the video, namely that AK-47s absolutely melt anything on the ground.
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Aug 28, 2021 01:50
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UED Special Ops posted:Yeah, this mission right here is bizarre and just doesn't really work or fit at all. Being basically a redux of the last mission only in a more urban setting is... questionable at best. Double so since there are barely any missions in each campaign and wasting now two of them like this really hurts things. It is also weird how you suddenly just have almost the entire rest of the GLA units unlocked here without any fanfare, just here is several new units, no introduction or anything just here they are. This mission would have worked a heck of a lot better if your unit choices were greatly limited, to represent this being an opportunistic raid for supplies with the riot being a cover, and would have slightly upped the challenge as well. Would have shown off the Angry Mob better as a bonus too. Not having a supply dock at your base and thus having to rely on taking down buildings, enemy units, and the bounty general power would have further spiced things up. Maybe have a much bigger map and have the money crates give less to stretch things out a bit as well. But alas, that's vanilla Generals for you... missed opportunity after opportunity.
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Aug 28, 2021 02:41
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Marshal Radisic posted:There is an infamous GLA mission that was mostly completed, only to be left on the cutting room floor due to its content. I would not be surprised if this mission in Astana was thrown together by the devs as a quick-and-dirty replacement for that original. EA released the map for free download years ago, so Jobbo's probably going to play it at some point in the LP, but I will say that while it's similar to the Astana mission, it takes place over a much larger area and requires a more extensive use of your entire arsenal to win. It will get shown, yes.
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Aug 28, 2021 03:02
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Marshal Radisic posted:There is an infamous GLA mission that was mostly completed, only to be left on the cutting room floor due to its content. I would not be surprised if this mission in Astana was thrown together by the devs as a quick-and-dirty replacement for that original. EA released the map for free download years ago, so Jobbo's probably going to play it at some point in the LP, but I will say that while it's similar to the Astana mission, it takes place over a much larger area and requires a more extensive use of your entire arsenal to win. Oh yeah, I heard of that one, and it being replaced by this nothing mission would make sense.
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Aug 28, 2021 03:18
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Sylphid posted:I think the Angry Mob is the only non-suicide unit that can kill itself. If the Angry Mob is sent on a far distance and its members start getting separated too much, the mob will gradually kill itself. There's a lot of neat things about it, most of which were shown in the video, namely that AK-47s absolutely melt anything on the ground. Also, I forgot to add that this is one of rare GLA unit to heal itself without any veterancy or upgrades. Leave any part of it alive, and watch as it asexualy multiplies back to full health.
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Aug 28, 2021 16:37
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GLA 04: Down From The Skies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oESaqOHB10 GLA 04: Down From The Skies With cash flows secured, it is time to strike against US assets in Turkey and teach the American dogs a lesson they shall not regret. The air force base is to be levelled, and all aviation assets brought down to the ground and reduced to ash!  Located in the city of Adana, in Turkey. It'll be pretty impressive for the GLA to build a base within Turkey's borders and attacking NATO assets, among other things! Location: Incirlik Air Base, Adana, Turkey Objective: Destroy all US forces in the area. Author's note: A difficult mission to deal with on Brutal, you're in desperate need of (re)building and maintaining anti-air assets.  Rocket Buggy RANGE: Long-Extreme ARMOR: Truck WEAPON: Multiple Launch Rocket System COST: 900 This light all-terrain vehicle carries a small battery of long-range rockets across most surfaces on the map. When attacking an enemy, the Rocket Buggy launches all of its rockets and must then reload. So, attack and then move away quickly to reload. Author's Note: Great when upgraded, and the literal glass-cannon of this game. It may lack anti-infantry capabilities, but it is hard to justify the SCUD Launcher over this, most times.  SCUD Launcher RANGE: Long ARMOR: Truck WEAPON: SCUD missile COST: 1200 Dating from the Soviet era, these ground-to-ground missile systems can do significant damage against enemy installations. The SCUD launcher can be toggled to launch one of two projectiles: a high-explosive missile or an anthrax bomb that poisons the area where it detonates. Author's Note: While it is multi-purpose, it is still hard to justify the spent General Point most times...  Palace ARMOR: Structure COST: 2500 POWER USAGE: 0 PURPOSE: Unlocks higher-tier units and technologies. The source of secrets for the GLA, the Palace can create important upgrades to weapons, defense, and biological attacks. Up to five GLA fighters can garrison the Palace, and it cannot be captured by enemy units. Author's Note: Being able to garrison it, and it being unable to be captured, feels more like a novelty, but at least this unlocks some great upgrades.  Toxin Shells FACTION: GLA COST: 1000 PREREQUISITE: Palace PURPOSE: Adds toxin damage to Scorpion and Marauder tanks. Developed at the Palace, Toxin Shells add a small amount of anthrax to the shells of Scorpion and Marauder tanks. The anthrax contaminates the target area for a short period of time. Author's Note: Allows for a more consistent anti-infantry output from your basic tank(s).  Arm the Mob FACTION: GLA COST: 1000 PREREQUISITE: Palace PURPOSE: Increases the damage of Angry Mobs by 25%. Developed at the Palace, Arm the Mob places AK-47s in the hands of the Angry Mob. Author's Note: A significant damage increase to an already strong, if underused, unit.  Rebel Ambush I FACTION: GLA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Spawns a group of Rebels at a target location. Ability to launch a surprise Rebel ambush anywhere. Author's Note: Free units that can be deployed anywhere? Sure! Suffers from the same problem as other multi-rank powers, as the first rank is generally not worthwhile getting if no further investment is desired/possible. Aftermath: With the assault on the Incirlik Air Base successful, the US forces will have to redeploy troops away from our homeland. This will hopefully open enough of a crack for the GLA to gain further ground in the Middle East.
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Aug 28, 2021 20:47
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Incirlik is the first real GLA mission and it's definitely one of my most favorite from their whole campaign. The terrain is interesting, you get to fight a proper enemy base, and there's no hard limit on when the mission will end to prevent you from experimenting and messing around.
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Aug 28, 2021 21:10
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By the way, Incirlik Air Base has (or used to have, I think there was some talk about removing the giant stash of) nuclear weapons stored there. During the weird rear end pseudo coup in Turkey a small while back, a couple of piss drunk Belgians found various allegiances of Turkish soldiers grabbing and shipping each other out of the nuke store outside perimeter.
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Aug 28, 2021 21:22
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The only real use I've found for the scud is as a garrison clearer when loaded with anthrax. Garrisoned buildings can be irritating enough in some maps that I spend a general point to unlock scuds and be done with it. Otherwise they have the same problems all the artillery units in this game do, they're just too slow for how the game plays.
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Aug 28, 2021 21:48
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The SCUD launcher driver is loving this poo poo though.
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Aug 28, 2021 23:16
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Apropos of nothing, I remember way back when I was a teenager, that I would sideswipe against a whole bunch of people who were absolutely disgusted with this game. Not because of what it itself was, but because they were bitter Command and Conquer fans who saw it as the pinnacle of the Assassination of Westwood Studios by the Cowardly Electronic Arts. There's a video that's probably still up on Newgrounds somewhere that I can still see parts of in my head. The visible portion of this started with Red Alert 2, which was released thoroughly unfinished, but this game was just DESPISED. I really can't imagine that this attitude improved going into the future, though of course I'll leave actually discussing that for when we get there.
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Aug 28, 2021 23:52
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Redeye Flight posted:Incirlik is the first real GLA mission and it's definitely one of my most favorite from their whole campaign. The terrain is interesting, you get to fight a proper enemy base, and there's no hard limit on when the mission will end to prevent you from experimenting and messing around. Yeah, this mission is defiantly very memorable and presents a pretty tough challenge. The entire right hand side of the map being a winding cliff face makes defending against the relentless air assaults tricky thanks to the Stinger Sites taking up tons of space, and pushing out to get more resources requires a strong escort force. At least Quad Cannon's shred air units, and are effective against everything but the USA tank. The Rocket Buggy though is fantastic. Amazing first strike damage with its quick bombardment, and actually possessing speed and small size, letting them zip away and also keep up with the rest of the army. Course a gentle breeze causes them to explode but used well they can just be incredible useful. As for the Place building, it is actually shockingly tough, and with 5 RPG troopers inside it, it can be a solid part of your defense.
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Aug 29, 2021 00:15
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Did the USA use its other regular air unit? Or was it just Raptors all the way down this mission?
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Aug 29, 2021 02:35
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Veloxyll posted:Did the USA use its other regular air unit? Or was it just Raptors all the way down this mission? Commanches were seen in the video, yes.
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Aug 29, 2021 02:49
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| # ? May 15, 2024 09:15 |
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Oh, I thought they had a second jet (not counting the bomber)
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Aug 29, 2021 02:53
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