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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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The Dragon Tank is one of the units that's okay in the single-player at anti-infantry stuff, but really shines through as one of China's best units in multiplayer, namely because the Flame Wall absolutely decimates most every structure in the game if it can get close enough. A Dragon Tank that slips through an undefended part of the map and gets into the enemy's base can completely change the game. It's just it can't demonstrate this ability as well in single-player because of the nature of pre-deployed enemy arrangements there's not as many places to slip through to enemy infrastructure to do damage. Also, toxins are primarily anti-infantry but they also can do tons of damage to lightly-armored vehicles, like the Troop Crawler or artillery in general. Like with previous C&Cs, every unit has an armor type and those kinds of vehicles take lots of damage from virtually any source of damage that actually can harm them. But yeah, toxins are basically entirely useless against buildings. Sylphid fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Aug 13, 2021 |
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Aug 13, 2021 04:57
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:57 |
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You were right about the functioning of the Refinery; it lowers the prices of all mechanized units by 10%, I think? This applies to all vehicles. It should be noted that the Gatling Cannon can detect stealthed units, but the Bunker can't. That's another reason why it's always a good idea to have a mix of defensive structures if you're playing as China. Also, due to a weird way the game engine works or something, Red Guard and Tank Hunters that don't have the Horde Bonus, if they go into a garrisonable building, will not get that bonus while they're inside. But if they do have that bonus when they go into the building, they'll receive it while still inside the building.
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Aug 14, 2021 09:03
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Speaking of neat interactions, it's actually the guys within the Stinger Sites who are responsible for the Stinger Site's ability to detect stealth units. Kill all of them and it can't detect stealthed units until they start respawning naturally.
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Aug 18, 2021 01:28
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Generals and Zero Hour are pretty infamous for how much cut content there was. Digging around in the game files reveals a lot of things that got at least as far as the voice actors recording lines either for units who had additional functions / variations at one point or units who were planned but never saw the light of day. Same thing with a lot of buildings that were planned but never materialized. A lot of mods for Zero Hour restore some of this cut content to varying degrees of success.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:16
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Cash Hack isn't really that great against the AI, due to the bottomless piles of money the AI is usually granted with in these games, but it's pretty powerful against human enemies. Level 3 Cash Hack is a net change of 8000 cash if you hack your enemy and they have more than 4000 in the bank when you use it. That can make quite a bit of difference in a close game, but you'll rarely see players go that far, since China has plenty of good support powers to spend elsewhere. Hackers do generate money constantly, but 1) it takes even a large group of them a while to make 4000 bucks and 2) they're extremely vulnerable if the enemy gets anywhere near them.
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Aug 19, 2021 03:48
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It should be noted that, in usual C&C super tank fashion, Overlords can crush other vehicles. I think the only exception is fellow Overlords? Granted you'd probably be wasting a lot of firepower trying to do that against most enemy vehicles, since they're almost all faster than Overlords and can get out of the way if you ever tried that, but it's still a pretty cool feature.
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Aug 19, 2021 23:33
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A train coming down the tracks and a tower / minaret falling over are the only two infinite-damage things in the game, I believe. Everything in the path of either gets completely destroyed, be it a humble Red Guard or a full health Command Center. Also, I definitely remember being drawn more toward the west side of the map than the east when I played the game. Urban fighting is just much more in line of my impression of Generals, so that's where I went first.
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Aug 21, 2021 06:43
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You need three Inferno Cannons at least to cause a firestorm effect, which can level buildings pretty quickly because fire does quite a bit of damage to structures in this game. Also speaking of artillery, there actually is a glitch to make Nuke Cannons shoot quickly, but it's hard to pull off for the actual reward involved. Have a Nuke Cannon launch a shell, then move an Overlord with Speaker Tower into the effective range of it, then it'll fire again because it technically now has a different rate of fire. At least I think that's how it works. Also, those Red Guard in the intro cinematic are iron men. They took a SCUD right to the face and kept going. They only died eventually because of the toxin residue. In actual gameplay the missile impact itself would have easily killed them. Also I think if you dawdle enough on this mission, the GLA eventually sends some infantry through that little pass where the mission started and can get into your base if you've left that side of the map undefended.
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Aug 22, 2021 19:02
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The nuke can't directly kill any structures but at the very least the radiation left behind will kill the guy who rebuilds structures for a bit, so you can put them out of commission for a bit. Nuke definitely isn't great for killing GLA bases, that's for sure.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:25
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The GLA is a pretty fun faction. The scrap mechanic in particular is pretty interesting. For the Technicals, one scrap upgrade gives them a little grenade launcher that's fairly mediocre, but two scraps give an RPG that fires pretty quickly, can target air units, can even destroy armored units pretty easily, and wrecks infantry pretty easily as well. A Heroic Technical that's fully scrapped up is extremely dangerous. Just a shame a Technical will always have paper-thin armor. For the Scorpions, you'll always want to get the rocket upgrade. Scorpions are incredibly average without it, but their DPS goes up tremendously with it. Two scraps with the Scorpion allows it to fire two rockets before it has to reload, making them even more potent. Again, just a shame it has pretty thin armor compared to the Battlemaster or USA's main tank. Having thin armor pretty much applies to all GLA vehicles.
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Aug 25, 2021 00:38
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Perhaps I'm a bit biased from seeing so much professional play (mostly of Zero Hour, but the same rules mostly apply), but honestly, micromanagement is a big part of both China and GLA. You will never be left alone by a good player long enough for a China player to build up a big mass of Overlords. And even blobs of Overlords can be melted pretty fast against a competent human's defenses. China players succeed by getting Dragon Tanks behind enemy lines early on in the game, Battlemasters that get in enemy supply lines, using infantry effectively, striking fast-moving vehicles and Workers with MiGs. The nice thing about good China play is that you'll usually see a wide variety of units used, since China has a lot of options. You'll rarely see big blobs of armor in serious play. Gatling Tanks are also good because most of what you'll fight from the GLA are lightly armored, which means Gatling Tanks, especially Chain Gun Gats, do tons of damage against them. GLA will get play by basically being a cockroach; placing down Tunnels everywhere, using the free RPG Troopers you get from those tunnels to garrison buildings and fend off armor as much as they can, using Technicals to move Workers and infantry in general around. A good GLA player will never let you feel safe, because even a small outpost can become a huge problem, especially with being able to move around large amounts of armor instantly with Tunnel Networks.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:36
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GhostStalker posted:I tried watching “high level professional multiplayer” of Zero Hour back when I was more into this game and knew I was poo poo at any multiplayer besides a comp stomp, and I was so confused most of the time. People build 2 or 3 dozers then sell their Command Center for the money, and don’t rebuild it for radar or to spend their general points until they’re at least at level 3? When did that become the optimal strategy? For a very long time (most people will only build a second dozer). That was my preferred strategy back when I played Zero Hour online back in like 2005. Good players won't need the radar until later and the vast majority of games are decided within the first 15 minutes or so. If you don't have that extra 1000 bucks, that slows your first Supply Truck, your first Dragon Tank, your first MiG, or a handful of more Workers to spread over the map. And while you've got your big fancy eyesore of a Command Center sitting there, your enemy has an army in your face because they expanded faster and had units on the ground faster than you.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:48
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Oh yeah, if you ever the chance, though I don't know if single-player gives you very many chances to, try and get the Worker to clear mines. He has some amazing lines for that. Though, as you said, the Worker has great lines in general.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:24
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This is a strange mission to introduce Marauders in, since they can't take advantage of their biggest gimmick, and why you'd ever really burn a Generals Point on them. The main gimmick is that a double-scrapped Marauder has, I think, the highest DPS in the game, even surpassing an Overlord (not sure if that Overlord was upgraded with Uranium Shells). A Heroic, Double Scrapped Marauder just completely annihilates most every armored thing in the game. It's pretty sick. Otherwise, yeah, they're not too special. Most Marauders won't live long enough to see that admittedly glorious day, and all of the GLA's armored needs are served by faster, cheaper units that don't require a Generals Point to acquire them. If you're fighting pitched battles against Chinese or American armored divisions as GLA, which is the only other reason you'd use Marauders, to take advantage of their beefier armor, you're probably doing something wrong, which is why the good ol' Marauder doesn't see much action.
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Aug 26, 2021 02:20
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I think the Angry Mob is the only non-suicide unit that can kill itself. If the Angry Mob is sent on a far distance and its members start getting separated too much, the mob will gradually kill itself. There's a lot of neat things about it, most of which were shown in the video, namely that AK-47s absolutely melt anything on the ground.
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Aug 28, 2021 01:50
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There's a very good reason those rocket soldiers in that one building had such massive range, but we'll certainly around to the whys in the USA campaign. You can see from this and the fourth China mission how deadly structures garrisoned with a lot of anti-tank infantry are.
Sylphid fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 05:48
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Kibayasu posted:Mission 4 is a pretty standard early base mission but I just have to say mission 3 always stands out as a weird one. Nevermind that its the second "collect money" mission in a row but you barely have to do anything. Barely any attacks on your base and the 3 mobs you start with don't even have to explore 1/4 of the map to destroy enough buildings to get the amount you need. True, but keep in mind, it is the GLA. Irregular warfare is their thing. If they were fighting lots of big battles against USA and China they wouldn't be as distinct, to put it as charitably as possible.
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Aug 29, 2021 19:25
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Reasonably sure the first time I did this mission, I didn't realize the enemy doesn't flag the trucks as enemies unless you provoke them somehow by acting more suspicious than usual. More suspicious than three nuke-equipped trucks, not responding to their orders, and parking right next to all their key infrastructure, of course. If you don't go with reducing the enemy's base to nuclear ash, this is quite a tough mission on Brutal, as I recall. I'm not sure how extensive the Chinese reinforcements are, but probably nothing a few Angry Mobs with AKs can't handle, especially since they go through such a narrow pass.
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Aug 31, 2021 02:23
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mr_stibbons posted:
The problem with suicide units in general is that, even if they're completely successful, that just means both sides are destroyed. Most people naturally will naturally gravitate toward units that can both win a fight and hold the field afterwards, which is part of the reason why you'll almost never see Bomb Trucks used in serious online games. Terrorists, on the other hand, because they can be transported by Technicals, are much more common in online games, at least in the early part of them. The advantage with Terrorists is that 4-5 Terrorists + a Technical is a pretty small investment to destroy the enemy's Supply Center, War Factory, and/or any amount of infrastructure (except a Command Center, which takes like 20 Terrorists to destroy). Being able to quickly get into an enemy's base and do that kind of damage is crucial for a GLA player.
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Sep 2, 2021 02:57
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If the city in the ending cutscene is supposed to be American, the GLA must have gotten their hands on some pretty serious tech, since it's a long flight to either coast of the United States, or even Alaska, from south-central Kazakhstan and only an ICBM would be capable of handling the flight. Specifically, you'd pretty much have to have China or Russia loading their longest-range ICBMs into Baikonur Cosmodrome, which would be..strange of them to do. I always assumed the city was supposed to be in China.
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Sep 2, 2021 09:33
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The Humvee is the backbone of the USA and it would be a lot less effective if it were weaker. A pack of Humvees, properly micro'd and loaded with Missile Defenders, can take out scores of GLA or Chinese units, as long as they're not faster than it or don't outrange them, which not a lot of units actually do. Really their only downside is the weak armor, but you have to have a weakness somewhere, and the Battle Drone can compensate to some extent. Not to mention that, unlike RA2, the infantry inside the Humvees will vet up while they're in there, making them even more effective at killing armor. Not an exaggeration to say the Humvee + Missile Defender is the only unit the USA actually needs to be viable. Another fun fact about the drones is that, for some reason, enemy anti-aircraft prioritizes drones before the vehicles those drones are attached to, so you can get the crucial first strike in a lot of engagements because the enemy anti-aircraft defaults to targeting things that are easily replaced. Sylphid fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Sep 3, 2021 |
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Sep 3, 2021 03:45
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Problem is that drones are air units and thus get targeted from very long distances by stuff like Stinger Sites. True. Doesn't work great against defense structures, especially since drone armor is so thin, but it works great against Quad Cannons and Gatling Tanks. The latter especially because they waste a few seconds revving up the gun.
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Sep 3, 2021 03:52
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Redeye gave a nice rundown of why the USA actually works as a pretty cool, versatile faction, but another understated advantage they have is their dozer moves differently than China's. Because it's wheeled instead of moving around via treads, it's a lot more useful in crushing infantry that are trying to pester it. China's dozer has to stop, ponderously turn and drive in a direction to get to a new place. USA's dozer can just keep going.
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Sep 3, 2021 10:19
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Pathfinder is basically always worth burning a Generals Point on. One of the only real counters to masses of Humvees / Missile Defenders is massing rocket infantry, and the Pathfinder completely shuts that plan down. Not to mention you can shut down Workers by planting them near unclaimed supplies, detecting stealth units (and killing them instantly if they're infantry), and being fairly cheap for how much utility they offer. Easily the best Generals Point-exclusive unit in the game and one of the best in the game, period. One of China's biggest weaknesses is Jarmen Kell, and, in general, quickly killing infantry at range. Jarmen can easily pop from a Tunnel, take out an Overlord, then duck back in. US doesn't have that weakness with Pathfinders; soon as Jarmen uncloaks and Pathfinders are around, he's meat.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:12
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Also, it's funny you talk about the whole scrapped POW mechanic in the update where you formally introduce Flash Bangs, because the Ranger gets a lot of different voice lines for when he's using Flash Bangs to attack versus when he uses the machine gun. One of the original functions of the Flash Bang was to cause enemy infantry to surrender, which is why he says stuff like "Put your arms in the air" when ordered to attack with them. Based on things we'll see later in the LP of this game and Zero Hour, it seems the POW mechanic was one of the last things cut and EA either didn't care enough to remove the references that are left in the game or didn't remember they were there. But yeah, this whole system is one thing that clearly a lot of work went into, based on the amount of recorded lines related to it. If I remember right, Burton was the only infantry unit you couldn't take prisoner.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:39
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So for a long time, I was wondering if it was possible to put Pilots in Comanches, since Comanches are the only unit that, by design, never makes contact with the ground. The only exception is when a Comanche goes to the Airfield to repair, since it lands and gets repaired that way. That's the only opportunity to put Pilots into them. Also, the only niche for a Stealth Fighter, really, is destroying base defenses, since Raptors are artificially weakened against them. Definitely a point best spent elsewhere.
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Sep 5, 2021 23:01
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One thing cool about the Tomahawk that wasn't mentioned in the video is the fact that the cruise missile they fire tracks armored targets, so Rocket Buggies, the only faster artillery unit in the game, can't get in safely against a Tomahawk and get out before the missile tracks them down. There's a weird thing going with some units in Generals where missiles don't have a maximum range so if a missile is fired, it'll track the target pretty much no matter what. This does apply to the Scorpion Rocket, but not sure if the Tomahawk will track its target so doggedly. Otherwise, Tomahawks share the same general weaknesses of artillery in this game, namely that they have a minimum range needed to fire the missile, but them not costing a Generals Point to build is a huge advantage for them. Tomahawks + Comanches can be a really formidable composition in this game.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:14
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PurpleXVI posted:Was it just me or did I see GLA rocket troops/stinger sites try to shoot down the Tomahawk's rockets a couple of times? Yes, it's a large enough missile that it counts as a separate object that can be shot down if enough AA hits it. Same with the Scud Launcher's missiles.
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Sep 6, 2021 22:05
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UED Special Ops posted:
Don't forget the Paladin being able to zap it out of the air if you're playing USA mirror and both sides have chosen Paladins for one of their points. Fairly unlikely, though.
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Sep 7, 2021 16:02
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Ah, the Strategy Center, the USA's veritable treasure trove of bonuses for its units. In terms of the online meta, Search & Destroy is by far the most popular choice, because a Rockvee being able to outrange any non-artillery unit in the game is incredibly overpowered. GLA armies in particular get absolutely greased by Rockvees with S&D, because they're usually pretty fragile but don't have enough speed to get away from S&D Rockvees or the firepower to kill them before they get killed. It's also worthy of note that air units are *not* affected by the bonus you choose from the Strategy Center. That's because, if you change from one strategy to another, all your units become immobile for several seconds until the Center completes its animation to switching to a new strategy. This raises the rather obvious issue that if you change strategies and have Comanches out, all of them would die instantly, and any airplane on patrol or heading in for attack would also freeze up and crash to the ground, like they got hit with the EMP bomb from China. In terms of buffs to the Center itself, Bombardment gives it a fairly powerful cannon, Hold The Line raises its defense substantially (the point where it has comparable HP to a Command Center), and Search & Destroy gives it a large stealth detection array for any sneaky Black Lotuses or Colonel Burtons. Should also be mentioned that when you choose a strategy, it's a global announcement broadcasted to all players and the place where the Strategy Center is is marked on the mini-map. In terms of the upgrades, they're pretty much all worth getting. Drone Armor applies to all drones and is very cheap, Advanced Training makes your units a lot more effective a lot faster, and Composite Armor actually has a bug on it where it affects Crusaders twice, making them incredibly resilient to damage. Advanced Training also helps Comanches quite a bit, because a vetted up Comanche is much hardier and can take a lot more punishment from AA than a vanilla Comanche can. Another fun fact is that the bonuses from Strategy Center strategies apply to all units under your control, so if you're, say, GLA, steal a USA Dozer and build a Strategy Center, you can end up with Search & Destroy Quad Cannons. Sylphid fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 02:32
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The Particle Cannon, definitely the most interesting of the superweapons, in that, it's not just fire and forget. When you fire the laser, you get to control its movement for about 10 seconds or so, which might seem like a needlessly finnicky way to do damage, but there's actually a trick to it to maximize its damage. See, the Cannon has two sources of damage it can potentially inflict: the laser beam itself, which is the most obvious, but that beam also leaves small fires in its wake that do continuous damage for a few more seconds. So, to maximize its damage output, fire the laser, but don't just leave it hanging. If you're firing at a specific building or group of buildings, move the laser around. The laser will create fires (though not nearly on the same level as China's firestorm mechanic) that continue to do damage. You can also double click the destination of the beam to have it move twice as fast. It's a bit more micromanage-y than just burying a large radius in toxins and explosives like GLA, but for the shortest superweapon cooldown, definitely worth the trade-off. In addition, the Cannon can easily vaporize GLA Holes so it's at least better than the nuke in forcing GLA to rebuild lost Black Markets or Arms Dealers and the like. As for this mission, if you move ground forces into the central city, you'll be informed Jarmen Kell is hiding amongst the buildings and you can flush him if you so choose. Nice little bit of flavor if you don't solely go Colonel Burton to take out both bases.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:55
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I'm actually quite fond of the Supply Drop Zone, though the crates occasionally missing the pad and requiring manual pickup is definitely lame. The airplanes that drop the supplies can be good to annoy enemy AA if you're coordinating an airstrike with them and they're more durable than Hackers, and I think it has slightly more HP than the Black Market, but definitely don't quote me on that. Just the fact that an Anthrax Bomb + Rebel Ambush could decimate China's late-game economy is enough to turn me off of them.
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Sep 11, 2021 03:20
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It's really to provide the lights for the aircraft manufacturers who are responsible for replacing all those planes that get shot down after delivering supplies. C-130s don't come cheap.
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Sep 11, 2021 04:23
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Speaking of clean-up (since the Aurora is fairly self-explanatory, though totally badass. Two Auroras + Level 3 A-10 or Fuel Air Bomb can destroy anything in the game I think), there is actually a glitch related to toxins or radiation fallout. The game engine actually can't handle two of those kinds of damage over time effects overlapping with each other. So if you're GLA and the Chinese nuke you, bring out a Toxin Tractor and spray toxins somewhere in the affected area. All that radiation will be cleaned up instantly. If the GLA has upgraded to Anthrax Beta and Anthrax Bomb or Scud Storm your base, bring out a Toxin Tractor with un-upgraded toxins and they'll instantly dispel it. Also, really can't wait for Zero Hour. Generals' campaign is just kinda okay, with some pretty memorable missions (like China or GLA 7), but Zero Hour's campaigns are all shorter but the missions are generally much more interestingly designed. It's the rare expansion that almost completely supplants the original. It's also a lot closer to what the original vision for Generals was supposed to be, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
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Sep 11, 2021 23:27
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Mordja posted:One thing I've never been clear about : was Generals originally supposed to have, well, generals? Yep. If you dig around in the files you'll find stuff like the GLA Warlord General (don't think this guy ever got further than a namedrop in the files) that was supposed to be in the base game, but they ran out of development time or something and all that got canned.
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Sep 11, 2021 23:48
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MiiNiPaa posted:It is not that it cannot handle it, the developers decided to explicitly delete overlapping fields to avoid need to handle stacking damage zones. You can disable deletion by editing ini files. Huh. Learn something new every day. Something of a shame. It would be cool to see how many numerous overlapping Anthrax Bombs you'd need to melt even Overlord armor.
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Sep 12, 2021 20:29
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Honestly, I'd prefer the Sentry Drone without a self-defense gun unless you chose to upgrade it with one. Being able to put a bunch of them at key points around a map to watch for sneaky Workers or troop movements in general (as long as they didn't have stealth detection) would be pretty valuable in multiplayer, just watching the enemy without giving their position away. The big problem for me, though is the price. Nearly as much as a Crusader is just too much to ask for a fairly niche unit. I guess they could make for a decent anti-infantry replacement for Humvees when paired with more traditional units, but if the US has Pathfinders they don't really have a niche. Being able to last longer with Drone Armor is good, though. Also, for Zero Hour in general, there's some pretty obvious spots where corners were cut to make such a short release date after the base game, and, as usual, digging around in the game files reveals a ton of things that got cut prior to implementation, but overall it's pretty remarkable it turned out as good as it did under such a crunch. Of course it helps that so much of the game was already done just by virtue of the fact it's an expansion, but overall the imagination on display in the single-player content is actually really good. Sylphid fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 03:16
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Custom multiplayer maps that include neutral naval units are fun. Not because there is even an iota of naval combat in this game aside from this mission, but because you can do all sorts of goofy things with them, like capturing neutral aircraft carriers or disguising Bomb Truck as Battleships, which totally works and is hilarious. Even if you capture neutral ships, though, they're not programmed to function and they're just for decoration.
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Oct 3, 2021 01:17
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Microwave Tanks are pretty cool but you won't see them used too much in-action since, as always, blowing things up is the most effective way of dealing with things in any of these games. First off, Microwave Tanks are the only thing in the game that shuts off *all* of a building's functionality while it's zapping the building. That means its rightful owner can't interact with it in any way, which means it can't be sold. But by the time you can manage a Microwave Tank + Ranger play against an enemy, you might as well completely destroy them if they're a human player. If they're a CPU, they're almost always not smart enough to sell something off as you're capturing it. There's only one exception to this I'm aware of, and it's in Zero Hour, actually. Second, there's a glitch with the tank and Supply Drop Zones. If you zap Drop Zone's scaffolding while it's being constructed and then remove the zap after it's fully constructed, the supply plane will immediately arrive and drop off its first 1500. It only works once per Drop Zone and it's a ban-on-sight type of glitch in online multiplayer, but it is there for some reason.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:34
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:57 |
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We actually do see quite a bit of the new US arsenal in Zero Hour in this mission, thanks to the fact we can finally build a base, but I'll save talking about them until they're formally introduced. As for this mission, it's been like 15 years since I played it on Hard, but sometimes you just want to appreciate a real knock down, drag-out fight in extremely hostile terrain, and if that's your thing, this mission definitely provides. The intro cinematic was probably my favorite in the game, especially compared to the low-level stuff we've seen in the previous missions.
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Oct 9, 2021 05:29
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