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I feel like some of the stuff here with reference to the robot wars and the AIs and sims are inspired by Gregory Benford's inter-prequel Foundation's Fear, which would be a really deep dive by the screenwriters if so.
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Sep 25, 2021 21:35
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:I believe in Foundation's Edge it turns out Mule is a lost child of Gaia, the psychic planet. Ah yes, I guess you are right, I think I just chose to forget certain things from that book.  Gaia is obviously another story element that could be used in some way and it would be another easy "change" to say that there is some connection between Gaal and Gaia so you just move that connection somewhat down the line. Obviously just speculation on my part but making the Mule a lost child of Gaia didn't really add anything to the story (imo Gaia felt a bit too much like a giant deux ex machina in the books which I guess is somewhat appropriate considering Gaia's nature ) and I feel Gaia might be a bit "out there" in general so I'd be surprised if Gaia from the books survives the transition to TV in that particular shape.I also had to edit my comment a bit, I previously said Seldon didn't predict mentalics in the books but I'm now not sure if he just didn't predict mentalics in general or just "mutants" like the Mule, the mentalics were obviously an important part of the Second Foundation so Seldon must have known about them or at least mentalic powers. In any case I'd be VERY surprised if the TV show hasn't already planted the seeds for mentalics/the Mule/the Second Foundation with the characters of Raych and Gaal, too many things that point in that direction. That way you can also keep certain characters and storylines separated, you have Salvor Hardin for the First Foundation as protagonist and Gaal and her story as origin for the Second Foundation.
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Sep 25, 2021 21:42
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1st ep, Gaal and the other dudes are getting ready to jump space...whats witht the tall skinny steward? Is that like mimicking the expanse with space born people being skinnies?
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Sep 25, 2021 22:05
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Gaj posted:skinnies  Uh, mods?
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Sep 25, 2021 22:27
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I saw the first episode and as someone who loves Asimov's work this seems pretty good. Better than most adaptations of his stories I've seen. My girlfriend who has never read anything by him liked it too so it wasn't inaccessible without prior knowledge. I'm surprised critics seem to hate it. Do they just dislike science fiction that isn't Disney?
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Sep 25, 2021 22:47
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KPC_Mammon posted:I saw the first episode and as someone who loves Asimov's work this seems pretty good. Better than most adaptations of his stories I've seen. My girlfriend who has never read anything by him liked it too so it wasn't inaccessible without prior knowledge. As someone who has only read the stories in Astounding Science Fiction YEARS ago the first episode just felt disjointed and weird, like I'd come into a film half way through. Reece's accent before he revealed who he was came across hilariously bad as well, holy poo poo. I did enjoy Alexander Siddig in it since he's the main star of the Deep Space Nine episode specifically about Psychohistory. It's a VERY pretty show but yea, it's just really flat and doesn't grab me.
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Sep 25, 2021 23:19
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I  ed when they went to the trouble to hire Jared Harris and then murdered him in the 2nd episode.
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Sep 25, 2021 23:47
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:I believe in Foundation's Edge it turns out Mule is a lost child of Gaia, the psychic planet. This was confirmed in the later books.
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Sep 26, 2021 00:27
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I kept waiting for there to be intelligent ships that named themselves wacky things but then realized that's "The Culture" series, not "The Foundation"
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Sep 26, 2021 01:52
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Nitrousoxide posted:I kept waiting for there to be intelligent ships that named themselves wacky things but then realized that's "The Culture" series, not "The Foundation" x Nitrousoxide c Hexyflexy It was okay, not great
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Sep 26, 2021 02:02
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Nitrousoxide posted:I kept waiting for there to be intelligent ships that named themselves wacky things but then realized that's "The Culture" series, not "The Foundation"
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Sep 26, 2021 02:10
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I am going on record that this show is cool and good.
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Sep 26, 2021 02:23
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I watched the first two episodes, and most of the time the dialog felt needlessly slow. Everything had to have a dramatic pause, and the scenes with Gaal in the swimming pool started to go on far too long. At first I was like "Wait, she won a math contest? So why is she getting a tearful send-off from her homeworld like she just got picked for the Hunger Games?" and then fifteen minutes later I was like "Oh, now I see". That part still felt like being told a story out-of-order. It felt unrealistic that even a mathematician would count primes by habit, like people who compete to memorize digits of pi. The intro with the crumbling statues made of colored sand glittering like stardust is great. All the scenes with the emperor clones and Eto Demerzel were great. I keep going "Wait, that's not how it happened in the books  Actually, that's an all right change"For example, in the books, Hari Seldon met Raych as an orphan while visiting a slum part of Trantor, and it works better to have the "Hari's not perfect" scene of him being dismissive of the poor from spending too long in an ivory tower. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 02:28
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What I can’t help doing is thinking how much the show seems like a knowing mashup of Cloud Atlas/The Expanse/Dune
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Sep 26, 2021 02:57
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The costume design really made me excited for the new Dune movie.
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Sep 26, 2021 03:08
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duz posted:The costume design really made me excited for the new Dune movie. I loved the big beautiful glorious clone emperor mural.
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Sep 26, 2021 03:18
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galenanorth posted:
Same and I've heard this from quite a few people. I can't recall any adaptation where the changes from the source material were generally liked. It bodes well.
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Sep 26, 2021 03:42
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The whole concept of "Empire" being an undying line of clones is cool, but the dumb blue armor makes it looks like a cheap avengers spin off movie. A lot of the art and styling does a good job at getting the idea across of grandeur and wonderlust of science, it just seems it needs another editing pass thanks covid.
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Sep 26, 2021 03:51
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What did raych pull off Seldon’s ear after stabbing him?
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Sep 26, 2021 04:16
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rafikki posted:What did raych pull off Seldon’s ear after stabbing him? Speculation, but I'm assuming it was some kind of device that scanned his brainwaves so he could come back as a hologram.
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Sep 26, 2021 04:30
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The emperor outfit definitely shows off Lee Pace's armpit hair I think more than intended. Overall, the show seems to be trying to have its cake and eat it too and I think suffers from prestige TV syndrome a bit too much. That being said the casting is great and a lot of the art direction is pretty dead on. I'm not sold on the clone Emperor change from Cleon being a bit of a well meaning space Shrub. A discussion between Cleon and Seldon about taxes and a flat poll tax being the most 'fair' and not realizing the implications is what in my mind set his character. Murderhoboing someone in the first scene with him was a bit much. I get why Goyer decided to go with the clone idea of keeping characters around, but it seems like he's a bit too much into the clones=stasis and decadence thing (Man of Steel, Krypton, etc.). Just the Empire falling from its own inertia despite well meaning technocrats keeps more to the spirit of what Asimov was going for. Some things were a bit downright odd worldbuilding such as having spacers on the jump ships while also having dialog about the robot purges. Also having the robot directly involved with space seal team six when I feel like her role should be more subtle and nudging things along to make sure that the apes don't genocide themselves. The need for big set pieces and not just going all in with the talky show seems to be a bit of an issue. On the bright side it's not mind numbingly "smart people written by stupid people" as say Star Trek discovery gets. There were some pretty decent bits that cropped up like the number base discussion for the encyclopedia. I'll keep watching it. I do wish structurally they just cleaned into making basically an Asimov chapter a 1-2 episode like mini movie and embracing the time skips fully, and not trying to have their cake and eat it too with the clones and extending things out that weren't in the book. That being said actually giving the characters... well characterization I think worked out well. It really should be a 3 season, 30 episode affair and not trying to milk it out for 80 episodes or whatever they mentioned. I don't think Asimov's grave is powering anything from spinning, and it's a much better adaptation than say iRobot ever was. But I feel like Goyer et al. might have been better off adapting the Robot stories into a series in this way. It's not meant to be damnation by faint praise, I really think that the casting is perfect. But I am dreading the writers turning the Mule into the Joker... Atarask fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 06:25
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rafikki posted:What did raych pull off Seldon’s ear after stabbing him? Yeah either it's a recorder, or it's a blocker. Why blocker? Well you see Psychohistory's weakness is droll fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 06:27
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Am I nuts or did Daneel Fuckin Olivaw just watch a bunch of people get hanged like the Laws of Robotics aren’t even a thing?
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Sep 26, 2021 07:09
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Odoyle posted:Am I nuts or did Daneel Fuckin Olivaw just watch a bunch of people get hanged like the Laws of Robotics aren’t even a thing? There's probably a creative interpretation of the Zeroth Law incoming
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Sep 26, 2021 07:18
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Odoyle posted:Am I nuts or did Daneel Fuckin Olivaw just watch a bunch of people get hanged like the Laws of Robotics aren’t even a thing? That 0th metalaw they invented presumably allows for some very flexible interpretation of 1, and by this point Daneel has been adapting to it for, what, a couple of thousand years?
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Sep 26, 2021 07:21
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Loomer posted:That 0th metalaw they invented presumably allows for some very flexible interpretation of 1, and by this point Daneel has been adapting to it for, what, a couple of thousand years? Exactly. Since Daneel has been essentially engineering society and the galaxy for ages at this point, the zeroth law about "harming humanity" overrides all other laws. These people needed to die, so the overall plan for humanities survival will work out in the end.
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Sep 26, 2021 08:10
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Exactly. Since Daneel has been essentially engineering society and the galaxy for ages at this point, the zeroth law about "harming humanity" overrides all other laws. These people needed to die, so the overall plan for humanities survival will work out in the end. Yeah, I agree it's likely R Daneel Olivaw. It's been forever and day since I've read all the books, but R Daneel's big thing was his experimental positronic brain and the extremely flexible thinking it afforded him. For instance, if it had been R Giskard in his place, the robot that actually formulated/discovered the 0th Law, he would have likely gone catatonic since he lacked the flexibility of thought needed to apply it to the real world.
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Sep 26, 2021 09:28
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To me it's sort of telling that the big beautiful space emperor clones seemed more more memorable than any of the main character from the first 2 episodes.
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Sep 26, 2021 13:47
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Loved the first two episodes, and the books should be arriving today. Got some spoilers when I was looking something up about some of the older Asimov books I read when I was a kid -- the Grand Vizier robot lady is Daneel Olivaw?? From the Caves of Steel detective books?? Who's been guiding humanity along for a thousand years?? I never knew Asimov connected his works like that. I had no idea of what Foundation was before I went in, and I thought it was fantastic. Great production value and special effects, interesting characters and worldbuilding. I've read reviews that give it 2/5 for some reason -- did the dialogue seem that disjointed to you guys? It didn't stick out enough for me to notice. I even liked the Day Emperor wearing the combat armor from DOOM. The only thing I'm not clear on was the timeline. The stuff at the beginning with the kids trying to get to the floaty thing that puts out a null field -- is that happening at the same time as Gaal meets Hari and goes off on the colony ship? I originally thought that Gaal was one of the kids there that had grown up, but I guess not? What's the deal with that planet, then?
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Sep 26, 2021 15:06
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Phenotype posted:Loved the first two episodes, and the books should be arriving today. That's later. That's the planet Terminus that they're getting exiled to. As for the spoilered bit, they weren't originally connected, but 40 years after publishing Foundation and 30 after Caves of Steel, Asimov started retconning them together (End of Eternity kind of fits in too if you want to stretch).
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Sep 26, 2021 15:14
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The Gaal/Raysch romance stuff was bad and I did not think the guy who played Raysch was any good. The whole show feels kind of sterile and lifeless in general, though I suppose that is to be expected from Asimov. I am curious to see where it actually goes from here, but juxtaposing it with just seeing Dune, it felt somewhat less impressive and just lacking in emotion. But ok so what WAS actually the deal with the long-necked/limbed ftl travel people? My understanding is that people who grew up in zero-g wouldn't actually look that alien.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:18
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Phenotype posted:the Grand Vizier robot lady is Daneel Olivaw?? From the Caves of Steel detective books?? Who's been guiding humanity along for a thousand years?? I never knew Asimov connected his works like that. There are two different eras Asimov wrote about. Novels and stories that took place in the Empire and others that took place in the Robotic stories. Foundation ended up being the bridge between the two. And yes, it is very likely it's *that* R Daneel Olivaw. Phenotype posted:The only thing I'm not clear on was the timeline. The stuff at the beginning with the kids trying to get to the floaty thing that puts out a null field -- is that happening at the same time as Gaal meets Hari and goes off on the colony ship? I originally thought that Gaal was one of the kids there that had grown up, but I guess not? The stuff that happens with Hari and Gaal is 37 years prior to the opening scene of ep 01. Phenotype posted:What's the deal with that planet, then? That planet is Terminus, where the Empire sent them to set up Foundation.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:26
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Hakkesshu posted:The Gaal/Raysch romance stuff was bad and I did not think the guy who played Raysch was any good. The whole show feels kind of sterile and lifeless in general, though I suppose that is to be expected from Asimov. I am curious to see where it actually goes from here, but juxtaposing it with just seeing Dune, it felt somewhat less impressive and just lacking in emotion. Really? I specifically thought Raysch was great. Everyone up until then was doing this somber serious stoic thing that you get with sci fi, and then Raysch shows up and he's actually emoting and smiling and lending some humanity to the proceedings. I would also like to know what the deal was with the weird spacer people, and/or what's going on with FTL and not being able to look out the window (as long as it's not too spoilery). I thought they were going to be actively malicious, or possibly explain to Gaal why they woke her up during travel, but then they knock her back out and are never heard from again. Proteus Jones posted:The stuff that happens with Hari and Gaal is 37 years prior to the opening scene of ep 01. Oh! Did I miss a "30 years later" text crawl somewhere or are they just being cryptic?
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Sep 26, 2021 15:27
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They're just being cryptic. I wish they'd done those scenes later when they actually got to the Salvor Hardin story. It feels like too many movies and TV shows these days use flash-forwards and a disjointed chronology as a crutch https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/09/tv-trend-time-jumps I think I came across a better article in The Walking Dead thread about this, but I forgot it
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Sep 26, 2021 15:29
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There is text on the screen multiple times including "37 years earlier" nothing cryptic about it.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:45
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Phenotype posted:I would also like to know what the deal was with the weird spacer people, and/or what's going on with FTL and not being able to look out the window (as long as it's not too spoilery). I thought they were going to be actively malicious, or possibly explain to Gaal why they woke her up during travel, but then they knock her back out and are never heard from again. I think the FTL thing is that it can drive an unprepared mind crazy. The man Gaal meets on the trip mentions that seeing the lights of FTL can end up with the "body and mind taking different trips" if you're not a spacer. I'm fairly certain the spacers did not wake up Gaal. There's been a bunch a little bits over the two episodes that are leading me to believe Gaal is psychic (or mantalic I think Asimov called it). It may be that's why she woke up. As she's boarding the ship to Trantor, she says to the man she meets "did you say something?" when he hadn't but was about to. She knew something was happening up on station at the end of the tether from the surface. She knew something was happening to Hari right before Raysch stabbed him and pulled that tech off his ear I also found Raysch tossing the bloody, DNA laden knife into the survival pod with Gaal interesting. I also wonder if the tech he pulled from Hari's head is a memory/brain image? Cloning is a mature (if illegal) science in the Empire, so by their power combined you have a fresh new Hari with all the memories maybe Definitely made me raise the eyebrow. Phenotype posted:Oh! Did I miss a "30 years later" text crawl somewhere or are they just being cryptic? Yeah, they flashed a 37 years prior on the screen right after that kid was rescued.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:51
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galenanorth posted:They're just being cryptic. I wish they'd done those scenes later when they actually got to the Salvor Hardin story. It feels like too many movies and TV shows these days use flash-forwards and a disjointed chronology as a crutch There were no flash-forwards. Unless you mean the very beginning of episode one? And the end of episode 2? Either way they were all proceeded by a big old 37 years prior or 37 years later depending.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:56
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After watching the first 2 episodes it has problem with none of the lead characters not being a "hook" for me liking the show. You have the whiny chosen one moments, which just makes me wish for more the crazy clone emperor scenes since Lee Pace was really great in the role. Plus they take a main character off the board way too early this series.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:58
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etalian posted:After watching the first 2 episodes it has problem with none of the lead characters not being a "hook" for me liking the show. Lee Pace was great. And I wouldn't worry too much about that last point.
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Sep 26, 2021 16:01
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Proteus Jones posted:There were no flash-forwards. Unless you mean the very beginning of episode one? And the end of episode 2? Either way they were all proceeded by a big old 37 years prior or 37 years later depending. I hate this because I will look away from the screen for a few seconds (or just space out thinking about stuff) and completely miss it.  etalian posted:Plus they take a main character off the board way too early this series. Yeah, I did kinda think this show was about to be the adventures of Gail and Harry, best friends in math and in life, learning about the universe and guiding the fall of mankind. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 26, 2021 |
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Sep 26, 2021 16:31
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