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Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.



:ughh:

Anyone else seen videos similar to the above, endlessly searching for something to :swoon: over but not happy with anything you try?

Me too and before I set more money on fire :retrogames: I thought I would take a moment to define what the :airquote: perfect :airquote: multiplayer game would look like to me and I came up with some interesting criteria:

Also even though this is an MMO post I am considering private server or non MMO games that fit this criteria

Multiplayer, at least 10 man teams minimum

Games such as Destiny2, Deep Galactic Mining, and Super Mecha Champions :dafuq: all feature 3 man teams. While playing games with my friends is exactly like herding cats :catte:, I have more than 3 friends :bravo: and a team limit less than 5 at minimum (10 preferably) is unacceptable. Understandably this limitation normally doesn't apply in MMO games but I mention it because certain game modes (and sometimes PVP modes) have a team or squad size limitation that can be annoying. Also I personally prefer larger scale PVP over smaller scale.

PVP

Speaking of PVP it is absolutely necessary for me. Eventually mass murdering NPC's gets boring and the ultimate battle of wits is against other players. I will again state that I happen to prefer larger scale PVP over smaller scale PVP. PVP specific modes can be cool but in an MMO setting I would prefer for everyone to be at risk of being ganked at any time.

Player driven economy

Games that have a well developed player run economy are preferable. EVE obviously comes to mind here. Being able to participate in a player run market is more exciting than just grinding NPC daily's for flurbos :nexus:.

Player housing

It's 2021 and player housing should be a thing. The more I can customize it and really make it mine the better. If I can explore the world I play in and find my own plot of land to build my housing on is even better.

There is a drawback to player housing however which is the accumulation of abandoned player structures (SWGemu comes to mind here) and any game that can handle this issue is better than one that cannot.

Clan system

Clans I feel are pretty standard and are a must. Also having a clan should enable easier communication and ease of play with your clanmates.

Classless characters

I prefer not to have to put my character into a box at character creation, thus creating a need to create multiple characters to experience all of the gameplay. Instead I like games that let you shape your character into whatever you want and have the ability to experience every skill and/or playstyle the game has to offer through a single character. Both FF14 and again EVE come to mind here where my character at least has the possibility of training into a different playstyle or switching my skillset to whatever I want without having to take a penalty.

"Hey bruh are you getting D2 remastered???" :doit:
say all of my friends

Why so I can play an ice sorc or hammerdin for the billionth time? :drat:

Some sort of crafting

People love to craft, myself included. Crafting should be integral to the game in that the best gear should come from player crafted items, not from grinding the same raid over and over again until unique gear X drops that literally every other player will be grinding for and eventually using. Again both SWGemu and EVE come to mind.

Little to no grind

Not doing it sorry. I am not going to hours and hours playing a game, so I can START playing a game. I understand most games need a skill and/or progression system but I am not going to spend 5 hours killing 25 goats or whatever. :fuckoff:

Active player base

I do not want to play a game in a ghost town, that would be a single player game... Unfortunately this fact kills one of my favorite games, SWGemu (which luckily I can say I played pre CU back in the day and I will be chasing that gaming high down for the rest of my life).



Oddly enough (or maybe not so) EVE online :ccp: fits most of these descriptions the best from what my personal experience has been and I suppose that is what has kept me coming back again and again for years on end.

If anyone out there knows of any games that fit all of these criteria (or at least come close!) please post in here so I can check it out as I am looking for something new to play.

Also post what criteria would make up your perfect MMO/video game.

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blatman
May 9, 2009

14 inc dont mez



I want to be able to randomly jump in to someone elses fight in the open world and neither of us gets penalized for it

I also want aoe support abilities to hit people outside of my group

Aertuun
Dec 18, 2012



If you give Starbase a year more of development (they're currently in early early access), that game ticks all those boxes. The only issue they have at the moment with your criteria is that there is excessive grind with their "research" system.

They're currently developing a lot of the core game systems; the only completely rounded parts of the game that are in are the ship design (which is immense) and the mining. PvP is a lot of fun but it's incredibly hard to find other players, as the in-game universe is gigantic and they haven't implemented radiation scanning yet (which will allow you to find other players who don't want to be found).

Within a year, fingers crossed you'll be able to drop your capital ship on someone else's station and be able to engage in combined ship & small arms fights with as many players as you can bring, in a fully destructible environment.

At the moment it's wandering around the vastness of space either hoping to spot another player visually (this is very unlikely) or hoping they've left their transponder on. And while you're looking you hit an asteroid and have to crawl around your ship repairing cabling.

Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.

blatman posted:

I want to be able to randomly jump in to someone elses fight in the open world and neither of us gets penalized for it

I also want aoe support abilities to hit people outside of my group

Agreed that gets added to the criteria.

Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.

Aertuun posted:

If you give Starbase a year more of development (they're currently in early early access), that game ticks all those boxes. The only issue they have at the moment with your criteria is that there is excessive grind with their "research" system.

They're currently developing a lot of the core game systems; the only completely rounded parts of the game that are in are the ship design (which is immense) and the mining. PvP is a lot of fun but it's incredibly hard to find other players, as the in-game universe is gigantic and they haven't implemented radiation scanning yet (which will allow you to find other players who don't want to be found).

Within a year, fingers crossed you'll be able to drop your capital ship on someone else's station and be able to engage in combined ship & small arms fights with as many players as you can bring, in a fully destructible environment.

At the moment it's wandering around the vastness of space either hoping to spot another player visually (this is very unlikely) or hoping they've left their transponder on. And while you're looking you hit an asteroid and have to crawl around your ship repairing cabling.

These days I am a bit weary of seeing the early access label slapped on games. However Starbase (and Space Engineers) looks promising. I keep wanting to pull the trigger on Elite Dangerous but I don't hear super great things about that game.

Hopefully New World comes out ok but I am not holding my breath.

No Man's Sky did keep me entertained for a while but ultimately it does not match my criteria and the game felt like a single player game with multiplayer added as an afterthought with no real direction to it. Reminded me of Path of Exile in that respect where yes its technically a multiplayer game but it is a single player experience (as doing map runs with friends actually hinders your speed and ability to run through and loot those maps quickly, therefor making it more worth while to just play by yourself and trade with other players).

I am surprised no one is trying to sell me on FF14 yet. Some friends of mine are long time players and I never tried it and it seems to check off most of these boxes.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

hey kid how's the cake


Mindisgone posted:

I am surprised no one is trying to sell me on FF14 yet. Some friends of mine are long time players and I never tried it and it seems to check off most of these boxes.

Other than player housing and an active playerbase, FF14 checks almost none of those boxes. PvP exists but is very much a sideshow to the PvE content, the economy isn't player-driven, and is probably the most infamous case of "You have to grind fifty hours to get to the good stuff" currently in the genre.

The player housing is also deliberately supply-limited, which is ridiculous and frustrating to me in a theme park MMO.

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

Human Garbage
Watch me try to laugh this title off like the dickbag I am.

I also hang out with racists.

the new RP server on atlas technically fits all of your criteria but atlas is a bad game and I'm not going to tell you otherwise

more active than official, crafting yes, classless yes, player economy and housing very yes, not grindy unless you are trying to fight the best of the best, guild cap is 15 people. ship pvp has some restrictions and land pvp is very rarely allowed at all, but it is a pvp server

here's the catch: lol dont play atlas

Stealthgerbil
Dec 15, 2004


Oh man atlas. I wanted to love that game so much. I loved ark and Atlas pretty much hit everything for me. I ended up hosting a 4x4 server cluster on a bunch of servers I had and it was great fun until the game just died because it was buggy and the resource grind was so bad.

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

Human Garbage
Watch me try to laugh this title off like the dickbag I am.

I also hang out with racists.

they got rid of the resource grind over a year ago, the grind now is just blueprints if you really need your cannons to be 300% instead of 200%

Aertuun
Dec 18, 2012



Mindisgone posted:

These days I am a bit weary of seeing the early access label slapped on games. However Starbase (and Space Engineers) looks promising. I keep wanting to pull the trigger on Elite Dangerous but I don't hear super great things about that game.

Hopefully New World comes out ok but I am not holding my breath.

No Man's Sky did keep me entertained for a while but ultimately it does not match my criteria and the game felt like a single player game with multiplayer added as an afterthought with no real direction to it. Reminded me of Path of Exile in that respect where yes its technically a multiplayer game but it is a single player experience (as doing map runs with friends actually hinders your speed and ability to run through and loot those maps quickly, therefor making it more worth while to just play by yourself and trade with other players).

I am surprised no one is trying to sell me on FF14 yet. Some friends of mine are long time players and I never tried it and it seems to check off most of these boxes.

You're right about all the above. Spaces Engineers is very much a single player / very small multiplayer game; the confines of their engine won't let them go beyond that. All the negative points about Elite Dangerous are true; my friends report it's as shallow as a puddle. I know a bunch of people that love EVE, and space games, but none of them stuck to Elite.

Atlas had a great concept but is horrendous in pretty much every other way.

As mentioned, definitely give Starbase about a year before giving it a go. The foundations are solid and have been improved by exposure to players. but it definitely fits the "early access" label. The developers are good.

One game that doesn't necessarily fit all your labels but would be great with your group of players might be Foxhole? It's in a very good place now.

Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.

1stGear posted:

Other than player housing and an active playerbase, FF14 checks almost none of those boxes. PvP exists but is very much a sideshow to the PvE content, the economy isn't player-driven, and is probably the most infamous case of "You have to grind fifty hours to get to the good stuff" currently in the genre.

The player housing is also deliberately supply-limited, which is ridiculous and frustrating to me in a theme park MMO.

Yeah that would pretty much eliminate FF14 as a choice for me then. Looking into it more the player housing system does seem very frustrating.

Stealthgerbil posted:

Oh man atlas. I wanted to love that game so much. I loved ark and Atlas pretty much hit everything for me. I ended up hosting a 4x4 server cluster on a bunch of servers I had and it was great fun until the game just died because it was buggy and the resource grind was so bad.

ARK... :w00t:, I have dumped hundreds of hours into this game on official servers, solo, and my own private server with some friends. Overall love the game, official servers are unfortunately a gank fest with the issue of abandoned player housing (at least you can attempt to destroy these structures yourself in Ark), when I played on my private server with friends it devolved into us turning on creative mode for everyone, building what we want with absolutely no challenge involved, and instantly became boring. If I could get a group of maybe 20 or more players to play at least weekly on a private server (my own or any other respectable private server) I would consider playing again. I am a bit particular about certain game settings at this point though so its possible to have fun and experience the game in a single lifetime without sucking the challenge and the fun out of playing. Also I would want at least 3 clans with about 10 members each with the intent of PVP to keep things interesting as the PVE experience eventually becomes too easy as you tech up and becomes boring on its own.

shirunei
Sep 7, 2018

I tried to run away. To take the easy way out. I'll live through the suffering. When I die, I want to feel like I did my best.

i want everquest but slightly better graphics while maintaining the cute aesthetic of the original.

Kaysette
Jan 4, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:


Iím still annoyed about EQ Next.

FreeWifi!!
Oct 11, 2013

Okay, that's true. Good point, Marquess. Point for you. But you get a point taken away for being a dick. So, back to zero.

I want DAOC with updated graphics and player movement controls.

Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.

Albion seems to check all the boxes, has anyone tried that and what did you think?

Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.

Alright well after some digging I am going to probably take a stab at the following games and some point and report back.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3836943 = free :w00t:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3876736 = $30, maybe I will skip this on the multiple suggestions above that advise it is trash

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3936184 = $7 / month

...and the Icarus beta = $30

I'd be more than happy to take this journey with a group so if anyone is interested let me know in this thread and if there is enough interest I will start a discord or something for more official communication.

Unfortunately not all of these titles are free so I will probably start with Albion and go from there (maybe Dual Universe after as I am pretty excited for that) giving each one a good couple of months of the old college try before I cast final judgement on the game.

Mindisgone fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Sep 27, 2021

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

Human Garbage
Watch me try to laugh this title off like the dickbag I am.

I also hang out with racists.

I liked albion a good deal but the game has no NA presence whatsoever, I spent a full month trying to find a US-based guild and found two and just chose to play something else instead

I had a lot of options due to my friends from atlas but I didn't wanna join Srindou's asia boys any more than I wanted to join the million EU guilds

Freakazoid_
Jul 4, 2013




Buglord

FreeWifi!! posted:

I want DAOC with updated graphics and player movement controls.

Yes, but maybe also better balanced. I wish the pure melee classes were more useful in rvr.

blatman
May 9, 2009

14 inc dont mez



shirunei posted:

i want everquest but slightly better graphics while maintaining the cute aesthetic of the original.

i'd be satisfied with everquest except you sheath your weapons out of combat, I saw a guy suggest that on the eq forum and it stuck with me how this is like the only mmo where you're just constantly brandishing a deadly weapon

well, that and bigger expansions but we'll see how terror of luclin plays out in a few months

Stealthgerbil
Dec 15, 2004


Mindisgone posted:

Yeah that would pretty much eliminate FF14 as a choice for me then. Looking into it more the player housing system does seem very frustrating.

ARK... :w00t:, I have dumped hundreds of hours into this game on official servers, solo, and my own private server with some friends. Overall love the game, official servers are unfortunately a gank fest with the issue of abandoned player housing (at least you can attempt to destroy these structures yourself in Ark), when I played on my private server with friends it devolved into us turning on creative mode for everyone, building what we want with absolutely no challenge involved, and instantly became boring. If I could get a group of maybe 20 or more players to play at least weekly on a private server (my own or any other respectable private server) I would consider playing again. I am a bit particular about certain game settings at this point though so its possible to have fun and experience the game in a single lifetime without sucking the challenge and the fun out of playing. Also I would want at least 3 clans with about 10 members each with the intent of PVP to keep things interesting as the PVE experience eventually becomes too easy as you tech up and becomes boring on its own.

ARK was really close to being the perfect MMO type for me. However I only ever played ARK on boosted servers but it was so much fun. I loved the wars we would get into with other groups and spent so many hours playing. It was at like 5x harvesting rate and 10x taming rate though so the game was way easier on the PVE side. Made PVP easier and harder as well since while you could easily get good dinos and explosives, so could your enemies. Never played it with large groups, its so grindy. I host a cluster of ARK servers and haven't played on them in forever but apparently there are groups of random people on them doing who knows what. Usually <5 players though. I haven't even played some of the newer maps but I am hosting them for the people on the servers. I consider it an MMO because you can transfer between maps, each which can have like 80+ players in them.

Also as far as FPS open world games go, I think Rust is the perfect game for that in every way. I have spent thousands of hours on it and love the game so much. Played solo, with small groups, with a giant roleplay village, every aspect was a ton of fun. I host a bunch of servers for it as well and its the kind of game that I can't play or I will stay up till 2am every night. I think I am just a sucker for open world survival games with fun base building. Its not quite an MMO but a server with 250 players on it is pretty close I feel like. You make friends and enemies and such just like any other PVP game.

SoJ57261
Jul 7, 2015


Mindisgone posted:

Some sort of crafting
People love to craft, myself included. Crafting should be integral to the game in that the best gear should come from player crafted items, not from grinding the same raid over and over again until unique gear X drops that literally every other player will be grinding for and eventually using. Again both SWGemu and EVE come to mind.

Little to no grind
Not doing it sorry. I am not going to hours and hours playing a game, so I can START playing a game. I understand most games need a skill and/or progression system but I am not going to spend 5 hours killing 25 goats or whatever. :fuckoff:
I mostly agree with you however some sort of crafting needs to be tied to item destruction or consumable requirements in the game to keep the economy healthy. Otherwise you end up with a gear threadmill game.

Also grind is really needed to keep people going out in the world and fight for stuff, maybe you can reduce the leveling grind or make things on a more equal footing but in the end without any kind of grind what are people going out of town (or even starting the game) for?

Agoat
Dec 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Rust but with poo poo to do please

Cardboard Fox
Feb 8, 2009

[Tentatively Excited]


Agoat posted:

Rust but with poo poo to do please

The game you are looking for is Ark: Survival Evolved. It's terrible, and I have 700 hours in it.

Mindisgone
May 18, 2011

Yeah, well you know...
That's just like, your opinion man.

SoJ57261 posted:

I mostly agree with you however some sort of crafting needs to be tied to item destruction or consumable requirements in the game to keep the economy healthy. Otherwise you end up with a gear threadmill game.

Also grind is really needed to keep people going out in the world and fight for stuff, maybe you can reduce the leveling grind or make things on a more equal footing but in the end without any kind of grind what are people going out of town (or even starting the game) for?

Battle other players and harvest tears...

hobocrunch
Mar 11, 2008

I'm walkin' here


I want to be able to camp level 1's until they quit

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012



Fun Shoe

I have never played Ark or Rust, but I think Conan Exiles is similar to them from what I hear. I have a pretty fair number of hours in Conan exiles and it's fun with other people but the pve aspect of the game is pretty lacking other than crafting and base building.

Pavlov
Oct 21, 2012


I've been playing Foxhole recently, a loosely WW1 and WW2 themed game which I think ticks all of these boxes.

You fight in big maps with dozens of other players in interconnected faction battles. You spend most of combat shooting other players. The only PvE is against what are effectively player built AI turrets.

The "economy" is entirely player-driven. All vehicles and player equipment are player built, even your character respawns were probably crafted by some other player, and placed into the building you spawned from. It doesn't have player markets though, but more like military logistics. Kind of like faction-wide goonunism.

It doesn't have housing per-se, but a big component of the game is building big WWI-style bunker complexes which are usually clan-run. They deteriorate (or get blown up by enemies) if you don't maintain them, so usually there aren't abandoned ones taking up space.

There are no classes or levels. You spawn, grab a gun or jump in someone's tank, and start fighting. If you put on a medic shirt from the spawn you'll be able to hold more hold medic supplies on you, but you don't even need the shirt to do medic stuff. The only personal character progression is that you get an army rank next to your name that is basically determined by how many thumbs up players have given you for being helpful. You have to have a certain (low) rank to start your own clan.

The only real grind is if you want to gather resources in the back-lines to craft stuff. There are entire clans dedicated to this, but for most players it is entirely optional and can be ignored in favor of shooting at people.

As far as the playerbase, it's been active since... 2017 I think? There are pretty dedicated groups of people who play it, and it just saw a bounce in popularity. Their servers are actually a bit strained with how many people are currently playing.

Doublestep
Sep 8, 2013

Keep on keeping on!


i just want eq1 but not live

p99 has been spinning its wheel in the same expansion for years now and the titanium client is rear end

blatman
May 9, 2009

14 inc dont mez



I want shards of dalaya but with 50x more players and less of a struggle to catch up at the level cap

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L :dva: L


blatman posted:

I want shards of dalaya but with 50x more players and less of a struggle to catch up at the level cap

one big reason i don't play SoD is the extremely tiny playerbase because nobody plays. They allowed multiboxing and it loving killed the server.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006


I want to have crafting raids. Raids where you craft. Do not ask me to elaborate on this, because I cannot.

Freakazoid_
Jul 4, 2013




Buglord

30.5 Days posted:

I want to have crafting raids. Raids where you craft. Do not ask me to elaborate on this, because I cannot.

A Tale In The Desert kind of does this.

Hexel
Nov 18, 2011



I just want a good bard

SMEGMA_MAIL
May 4, 2018


THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021






Foxhole goons is petty rad

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kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012





30.5 Days posted:

I want to have crafting raids. Raids where you craft. Do not ask me to elaborate on this, because I cannot.

Kinda hard to find any of the footage of it that's not the battle segments, but Hamlet Defense in XIV 1.2 was kinda like that. There was a 50 hour non-combat phase where combat jobs would do caravan security missions while disciples of the land/hand would turn in requested items or materia gear and the more of that people did the better the rewards were in the 25 hour battle phase that followed. There was crafting stuff in the battle phase too, delivering alchemical stuff that gave beastmen various debuffs and empowering NPCs with gear.

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