Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
goblin week
Jan 26, 2019



its a korean show about a deadly game based on childhood plays. its on netflix. it rules. you might have heard of a tiktok trend started by it?



here's a poster so the thread looks more legitimate

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ElectricSheep
Jan 14, 2006

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


I'm halfway through, it's pretty awesome and as someone not too familiar with South Korean media outside of like Bong Joon-Ho I'm pretty much like dang, economic stratification over there must be crazy cuz it's been a running theme in like everything I've happened to see

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019



episode six really put me through the loving wringer because I kept being reminded of my grandma who had dementia and a similar grasp on reality. even if he faked it. :(

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

There's been a lot of Battle Royale type shows and movies since BR. This one stands out with solid writing and terrific actors.

Would watch grownups play childrens games again. Bring on season 2 please.

Donnerberg fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 2, 2021

papasyhotcakes
Oct 18, 2008


I loved the whole series but didn't like the ending. I would have preferred for it to be self contained in just one season but I guess Netflix gotta keep those sweet won coming.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

If this is your first Korean show on Netflix and youíre like ďhey I wonder if any others are good??????Ē watch Extracurricular, itís fuckin awesome

Not started this yet but Iím looking forward to it when Iím not visiting my mum lol

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

by Azathoth


Alice in Borderland was also good. I watched them both at the same time and can't tell which I liked more, but they both have endings that might lead to further events. Squid Game had better music overall.

VagueRant
May 24, 2012


Really weird seeing a show kinda perfectly subtly foreshadow a shocking final act twist and then do so little with it that you figure they could've cut it entirely.

Nothing the Old Man said on the deathbed changed the audience understanding of The Game any more than you could already infer. I thought there'd at least be a more in-depth challenge of the premise that the game puts everyone on an equal playing field, but ACTUALLY features just as much random luck, external factors and born physical difference that every single game was as unjust and unfair as capitalist society. Bootstrap your way through a tug o' war as an 80lb woman, like what?

And seeing someone care about the guy on the street re-motivating 456 could've happened without it, frankly.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.


It's insane how huge this show is. It's essentially the Final Fantasy VII of Korean shows.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



I binged it today- talk about tension!

EvilElmo
May 10, 2009


I enjoyed it. Had its faults but overall pretty fun.

Except the VIPs. They were bad.

ghostinmyshell
Sep 17, 2004



I am very particular about biscuits, I'll have you know.


Last episode kind of soured me on this. I was really enjoying some of the unexpected plot points like the first vote to end the game, that usually doesn't happen....

If I found a legit costume I probably would wear it for Halloween, not those really bad knockoffs floating about.

Antifa Spacemarine
Jan 11, 2011

Tzeentch can suck it.

I absolutely hated the portrayal of Ali. I felt it was kind of offensive, at least in the dubbed version he felt like he was almost playing a dutiful simpleton servant which South Asians often end up getting pigeonholed as. Like he couldn't even comprehend getting betrayed, and had very little agency or self-motivation. He also spent a lot of time kind of dutifully saying "sir"

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Antifa Spacemarine posted:

I absolutely hated the portrayal of Ali. I felt it was kind of offensive, at least in the dubbed version he felt like he was almost playing a dutiful simpleton servant which South Asians often end up getting pigeonholed as. Like he couldn't even comprehend getting betrayed, and had very little agency or self-motivation. He also spent a lot of time kind of dutifully saying "sir"

You might be applying western cultural context to a show with a very different context. Korea is not nearly the racial melting pot that western countries are, and maintaining racial/cultural purity is still a thing, going back to when Japan invaded Korea and tried erasing Korean identity through rape and forcing everyone to take Japanese names and learn Japanese. Preservation of Korean cultural identity morphed over the decades to racism towards others as Korea became an economic power and started letting in immigrants from more disadvantaged countries, but trying to keep these immigrants boxed away so that they donít intermarry into Korea and dilute Korean identity

Ali was brought to South Korea specifically because he was an exploitable, disadvantaged laborer. East Asian countries have a large population of dark skinned South Asian immigrants who do all the menial work and are treated like second class citizens, who are not given the same rights or treatment, who arenít given as much agency. The fact that this show is calling out this thing that East Asians treat as normal is a big step forward. Aliís back story is explored, he has a wife and kid, he has as much validity in wanting the prize money as anyone else.

As far as dutifully saying sir all the time, Korean society is extremely hierarchical, even more than Japan. Itís more realistic that Ali, an exploited immigrant with little agency in Korea, has to be this deferential in order to fit into Korean society. Your complaints about his portrayal would be better directed at Korean societal racism and not the show

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



I just finished it last night. Wasn't a fan of the ending, though initially I didn't realize it was an ongoing series renewed for a second season. Taken for what it is, the cop storyline seemed like it could've been left out completely as the reveal of the masked man was kind of unsatisfying--and what's the point of hiding his face to the audience, did the reveal have any real shock value outside of being the cop's brother? Did they show his face in a photo before? Otherwise, just seems like he's a famous-ish actor. The VIPs were also a weird inclusion and kind of went against the tone of the rest of the Squid game organization as they were so over the top gross. And oh yeah when 456 turns back from his plane ride to the US, I nearly rolled my eyes. Like of course that's where this leads (I've seen too many dystopian shows/movies), his poor daughter. Hope he at least puts some money aside for her as he should assume he's 99% going to die.

On that note, the first couple of episodes were a bit hard to stick with for me as drat near every character was too unlikable, but that's probably as intended. Having known a few degenerate gamblers (I'm Asian American and it's an unfortunate blight in a lot of the Asian diasporas) 456 did a good job on that aspect. The games themselves were pretty solid tension builders.


Oh yeah, was anyone else annoyed about the inconsistency of Red Light/Green Light? At least in how they shot it, it seemed clear to me that plot armor was much more important than how the actors actually performed the game. You'd have people who visually "stopped" moving before those around them getting sniped while cuts to the leads would show them moving as much as victims after "red light" (before hiding behind people in front) and of course not getting shot. That removed some of the tension as you sorta figure all of the leads will live for a good while.

Anyway, overall solid show, no regrets watching.

iamsosmrt fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Oct 3, 2021

GaussianCopula
Jun 5, 2011
Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

I really liked the show, especially as it reminded me a lot of The Genius.

I saw the twist with the old man a mile away, the most obvious clue being Front Men reacting instantly when old guy gives his speech about everyone needing to stop, with the first clue being his number (001) and the fact that he was the only featured character who seemed to not be in it for the money, but to "experience" something before dying to his brain tumor.

As for the Squid organization, it's main focus is to hold these games for the entertainment of their VIPs, which is consistent with the high value they place on the fairness of the games, as manipulation would spoil their patron's fun. The "we help desperate people to have one last chance at life" seems to be more the justification old guy needed for himself, given that brutality of the games. As is demonstrated during the glass bridge game, the contests can be drastically altered to the detriment of a player, if it servers the entertainment of the VIPs.

The cop story meanwhile server mostly as exposition of the behind-the-scenes, which might have better been delayed to a second season, as it didn't lead anywhere.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



Is there a second season planned? I thought the creator said it was intended to be self contained, though the last scene obviously suggests otherwise. I was pretty happy with the show until the one year jump and the dye job

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



goblin week posted:

its a korean show about a deadly game based on childhood plays. its on netflix. it rules. you might have heard of a tiktok trend started by it?

What tiktok trend?

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather


Escobarbarian posted:

If this is your first Korean show on Netflix and youíre like ďhey I wonder if any others are good??????Ē watch Extracurricular, itís fuckin awesome

I second this opinion.
Squid Game was fun, but just not quite on that level.

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.


EvilElmo posted:

Except the VIPs. They were bad.

Lol, it's like they didn't have a single person whose first language is English go over their lines, they're pretty terrible.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019



MiddleOne posted:

What tiktok trend?

Replicating the games! Though mostly the first two lmao. I agree about the resolution to the cop thread though, it really did feel a bit pointless. He was his brother! And...... that's it?

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Yeah that a big load of nothing.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.


Steve Yun posted:

You might be applying western cultural context to a show with a very different context. Korea is not nearly the racial melting pot that western countries are, and maintaining racial/cultural purity is still a thing, going back to when Japan invaded Korea and tried erasing Korean identity through rape and forcing everyone to take Japanese names and learn Japanese. Preservation of Korean cultural identity morphed over the decades to racism towards others as Korea became an economic power and started letting in immigrants from more disadvantaged countries, but trying to keep these immigrants boxed away so that they donít intermarry into Korea and dilute Korean identity

Ali was brought to South Korea specifically because he was an exploitable, disadvantaged laborer. East Asian countries have a large population of dark skinned South Asian immigrants who do all the menial work and are treated like second class citizens, who are not given the same rights or treatment, who arenít given as much agency. The fact that this show is calling out this thing that East Asians treat as normal is a big step forward. Aliís back story is explored, he has a wife and kid, he has as much validity in wanting the prize money as anyone else.

Great post. I really do think things are going to be a poo poo show once East Asian nations are going to have to open up their borders for Western style immigration due to declining birth rates.

HOMOEROTIC JESUS
Apr 19, 2018

Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

MiddleOne posted:

Yeah that a big load of nothing.

It's not clear to me that the character is actually dead - there was no headshot, no view of his body after falling into the water that I can recall. It's unclear if he was shot in the heart or not. There's the scene later where he shows up in the mirror which could be interpreted as his ghost showing up (i.e. confirming his death), but I'm still not certain after that. If I'm forgetting a more explicit scene, let me know. It feels like they're leaving it open for season 2 if it happens? but idk.

I agree that the plot thread feels incomplete to an uncomfortable degree.

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Liked the series, although thought that it was 1 or 2 episodes too long. The writing dragged it's feet around games 3 and 4, the VIPs and the "studio" were brought in too late since it would have made sense to have that earlier, and epilogue part of the last episode wasn't that interesting.

Also,it is a stupid detail to nitpick, but like someone said the writing dropped the ball on two game aspects and rules; how the hell is tug of war "equal opportunity", and furthermore, why wasn't the entire team with doctor eliminated since they also cheated on that play by knowing what type of team to build?

It would have been nicer if the cop story ended somewhere else than yes, he found his brother, and maybe got some evidence out. But obviously it was there to show us the internal workings of the competition arena.

Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Oct 3, 2021

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Der Kyhe posted:

Also,it is a stupid detail to nitpick, but like someone said the writing dropped the ball on two game aspects and rules; how the hell is tug of war "equal opportunity"

It wasn't made known that it was a competitive strength challenge. That's literally it.

Other one is totally plot contrivance though.

VagueRant
May 24, 2012


Would've saved a lot of time in the storytelling if they'd made it clear before the knockout gas that you could potentially die in the games, as all the desperate people would've signed up anyway and not needed the vote plotline - that was pretty much just a point of getting inevitable audience shock at sniped bodies piling up rather than anything that made sense from a character motivation perspective for the masterminds.

HOMOEROTIC JESUS posted:

It's not clear to me that the character is actually dead - there was no headshot, no view of his body after falling into the water that I can recall. It's unclear if he was shot in the heart or not.
He was very specifically given the non-lethal shoulder wound and disappeared suspiciously far from the rocks below the actual cliff. So yeah, they're 100% ready to bring that dude back.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



VagueRant posted:

Would've saved a lot of time in the storytelling if they'd made it clear before the knockout gas that you could potentially die in the games, as all the desperate people would've signed up anyway and not needed the vote plotline - that was pretty much just a point of getting inevitable audience shock at sniped bodies piling up rather than anything that made sense from a character motivation perspective for the masterminds.

Why tell when you can show though. The shock is a much more effective storytelling tool because they thoroughly built up getting there. I don't think it was wasteful, on the contrary I think it was just right.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



I won't nitpick about the inconsistent or even outright contradictory statements and motivations of the game masters as even in real world competitions humans are notoriously dodgy about these things and when you factor in that it's a game based on gambling and murder that they probably really don't care how unfair the competitive aspect really is.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

Ending spoilers.

VagueRant posted:

Would've saved a lot of time in the storytelling if they'd made it clear before the knockout gas that you could potentially die in the games, as all the desperate people would've signed up anyway and not needed the vote plotline - that was pretty much just a point of getting inevitable audience shock at sniped bodies piling up rather than anything that made sense from a character motivation perspective for the masterminds.

He was very specifically given the non-lethal shoulder wound and disappeared suspiciously far from the rocks below the actual cliff. So yeah, they're 100% ready to bring that dude back.

I think it was an overall positive. It gave us an unexpectedly large blood bath in game 1, the twist of the old man voting to end the games and a big sympathy moment for 456 when the cops don't believe him.

Der Kyhe posted:

Also,it is a stupid detail to nitpick, but like someone said the writing dropped the ball on two game aspects and rules; how the hell is tug of war "equal opportunity", and furthermore, why wasn't the entire team with doctor eliminated since they also cheated on that play by knowing what type of team to build?

The Front Man was dishonest and semantic. The games weren't fair, but in theory the players had equal chance to get a good team or a good turn order. However, it was all about keeping the VIPs happy. Can't have drugged horses in the race.

Donnerberg fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 3, 2021

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Exactly. Them espousing that the games are fair, and believing it themselves even though it's patently untrue, is a 1:1 allegory for capitalism.

And like, this isn't turning Star Wars into a socialist work in a reading of it for a video essay. It's right there in the text of the thing.

Weldon Pemberton
May 19, 2012



The first two episodes are the best. If you removed a couple of elements like the beginning of the cop side plot and everything with Oh Il-nam then they could just be a feature film by themselves about how poverty leads people down horrible paths because they feel they have no other choice.

The rest is good as well, just in a different way that isn't as unique.

Antifa Spacemarine posted:

I absolutely hated the portrayal of Ali.

I think Steve Yun is correct to point out that it's a different context in Korea as opposed to the West, and the writers were clearly trying to portray Ali sympathetically. But I still have mixed thoughts because I felt they struggled to achieve what they were trying to do. They avoided making him at all morally ambiguous to the point he comes off a bit flat compared to the other characters who are given similar screentime. Another fundamentally good character like Gi-hun has a lot more complexity because he is shown to not be completely saintly when he's in a weak position (e.g.: the effects of his gambling addiction on those in his life and the whole of episode 6). The closest it got to Ali seeming multi-faceted was when he clapped back at the player who started being racist towards him. IDK I don't want to be too harsh on the writers due to their good intentions and the fact that the situation may be so bad that he has to be portrayed that way for some Korean viewers to sympathize with him, but it was something that didn't really work for me either.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.


MiddleOne posted:

Why tell when you can show though. The shock is a much more effective storytelling tool because they thoroughly built up getting there. I don't think it was wasteful, on the contrary I think it was just right.

Yeah, I loved that twist.

Der Kyhe posted:

how the hell is tug of war "equal opportunity"

It wasn't, that's the point. The entire game is an allegory for Capitalism.

gently caress it I'll just post my previous post:

quote:

It's pretty insane to see a Korean show hold the number 1 spot on Netflix's most popular programming.

For some reason this show has mass appeal world-wide, and the reason why is obvious:

The entire Game is an allegory for Capitalism.

It is promised that all of the games are fair and only the most qualified person can win. But in reality the most important factor for success in all the games is luck:

Game 1 it's how much you can resist being startled.

Game 2 it's what shape you pick.

Game 3 it's basically a contest of strength.

Game 4 most players decided to play "even or odd" which is a 50/50 split chance.

Game 5 depends on whether or not you picked the back row.

Game 6 it's basically how athletic/good at fighting you are.



Sure there is some skills that apply to this that can be overcome. Such as Il-Nam's strategy for tug of war, but even that strategy almost failed and could easily just be replicated better by a stronger team. Winning the game's is mostly based on luck of the draw and how your genetics/background happen to play in certain situations.

And the people who run the games are the super rich themselves, who despite use the veneer that the games are based on "fairness" and "a chance to get rich", are in reality nothing more but to benefit them (in this case for entertainment).

In fact, the only person who seems to believe the game's philosophy so whole heartedly is the Frontman, most likely due to the fact that he won the game's originally himself, so "if he can do it, anyone can!"

The game also touches upon that working within the system you are forced to cut throat of others in order to get ahead. Sang-woo is the perfect example of this with Ali and Saebeyeok (in a both literal and figurative sense).

Add elements such divided families with Gi-hun having a near estrange relationship with his daughter and immigration with Ali, and it relates even more to the modern world.

Today almost every major nation follows the doctrine of neoliberal capitalism, which focuses heavily on free trade, little regulation, privatization, and globalization. The show puts that in full focus and since this is the same doctrine that the Japan, United States, Europe, and majority of the rest of the world follows, the show has massive crossover appeal.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

punk rebel ecks posted:

Yeah, I loved that twist.

It wasn't, that's the point. The entire game is an allegory for Capitalism.

gently caress it I'll just post my previous post:

The game is also massively rigged by the old man to make sure his son wins the game, another hallmark of capitalism.

Just Chamber
Feb 10, 2014

WE MUST RETURN TO THE DANCE! THE NIGHT IS OURS!



Is this a show that's fine to watched dubbed or do the dubs kinda suck?

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



LividLiquid posted:

Exactly. Them espousing that the games are fair, and believing it themselves even though it's patently untrue, is a 1:1 allegory for capitalism.

And like, this isn't turning Star Wars into a socialist work in a reading of it for a video essay. It's right there in the text of the thing.


I think beyond that the old man having rigged the game from the very start to leave him unharmed taints any notion of it being fair. He has literally reconstructed society in his ideal image to play pretend at having deserved his own privilege! It is all just a bizarre joke.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.


Just Chamber posted:

Is this a show that's fine to watched dubbed or do the dubs kinda suck?

Subs.

withak
Jan 15, 2003







Fun Shoe

The dub isn't that good, but also isn't awful if you hate reading subtitles for some reason.

Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.



VagueRant posted:

Would've saved a lot of time in the storytelling if they'd made it clear before the knockout gas that you could potentially die in the games, as all the desperate people would've signed up anyway and not needed the vote plotline - that was pretty much just a point of getting inevitable audience shock at sniped bodies piling up rather than anything that made sense from a character motivation perspective for the masterminds.

He was very specifically given the non-lethal shoulder wound and disappeared suspiciously far from the rocks below the actual cliff. So yeah, they're 100% ready to bring that dude back.

The "they vote to go home and come back in" set up is so that 001 can vote to make the games happen- the ultra wealthy wake up every day and continue to play the game of capitalism even though they have nothing real to gain other than the thrill of the game.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



If you use the English dub I am sorry but you simply must go to jail.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply